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Support Forum

Hi all, things may look a little different here. I have taken the page “Ending the Relationship with A Narcissist” and made it into a support forum. It is where everyone has decided to congregate which is awesome but people that go to different posts don’t know everyone is here and might miss out on the great support system we have going here.

This page has the same link that it always had so you should get the same notification when someone comments but it will appear on the Home page and “Support Forum” and there is another “Leaving the Narcissist” page on the home page also.
I did it this way because people had mentioned they were concerned about changing their link.
I hope this works for everyone, I am just trying to make it easier for people to find the support they need.

I would also like to mention to everyone coming in here for advice or information; there are many articles (over 400) on the subject of narcissism, covering topics such as self doubt, he wants you back, no contact, and much more. To find information on the topic you are interested in just click on “Home” at the top of your screen and either use the Search engine or click on the category or tag of choice on the left side of the screen.

To all new visitors! Welcome!!

You have found a great group of supportive women who have all been through what you are going through and understand completely the devastation you are feeling.
You are NOT crazy and you are not to blame, you are in a relationship or just left a relationship with a narcissist/psychopath. You are not alone. Come as often as you like to vent, ask questions, cry, and get support and encouragement.

Hugs
Carrie

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5,057 responses to “Support Forum

  • ginafantsaez

    Carrie, I have a question for you. I am on day 42 of complete and total No Contact. I’ve been broken up a year from my Narc – but there was the on and off hoovering hell that we both know too well… I’m finally done and have super-glued all access to me so I can’t be hoovered ever again.

    So, my question is, one thing that saves me from crazy thinking or moments of weakness, or thinking maybe she can change, is what I call my D List. It’s a list of terrible things she said and did over our 2 years of hell. And anytime, I start missing her, I pull out my list and either just read it or edit it or add to it, and now my list is 13 pages and up to #101. Seriously… That list is saving my life. So, I am thinking of setting up a website called 100 Reasons to Leave. I already bought the domain. And setting up a site where people can post their reality lists as well, so anytime they start missing their Narcs, they can write, edit or read someone else’s list of behaviors or insults or lies…

    In your experience, does your website keep you connected to your Narc by constantly writing about them? Or is it healing for you? I am concerned that by me doing my website, I would be giving her exactly what she wanted; my focus and attention on her. – Do you know if JC knows about your site? And if so, any reaction from him? Do you use his real name? I’m just trying to think this through before I take the plunge.

    I LOVE your site so much and get so much strength from your posts.

    Thank you SOOO SOOO much for your courage to do this.

    Gina

    Like

    • Carrie Reimer

      Gina, I am happy to hear my site has been helpful to you and you get strength from my posts, that is my purpose. I think the website is a great idea, simply because victims need all the info and support they can get and society in general needs to be educated. Your idea is a bit different also so it could be quite popular, let me know when you are up and running and I will put a link to it on my site.
      As for keeping me connected to James. I was not smart like you, I didn’t think the blog through at all, it kinda just developed a life of its own. If I was to do it over again I would not have used my company name, Lady Witha Truck, but I had started the blog to talk about being a female in the scrap metal industry but hadn’t done much for posts because I was so consumed with pain over James. After I my failed suicide attempt I started writing about James and my relationship and changed my tag line to “Starting over with nothing after being involved with a narcissist” I had no plan, I didn’t even think any one would read it. I just needed to be accountable to someone some where so I would not try to kill myself again. It was a couple of months before I even had a visitor and I was so thrilled!! lol At some point I became an inspiration and was helping other people. I had just wanted to put my story out there and if even one woman was helped it would be all worth it. I had no intention or hope of it ever getting this big.
      I use James name now, I always used his initials and have been very careful to not put anything on the net that would come up if someone Googled his name. I didn’t want to be dragged into court for libel or slander and I didn’t want to ruin his life. At first I was trying to be very fair and not vindictive in any way. I really thought about why I was doing it because I didn’t want it to be a revenge thing, I wanted to make sure i was doing it for the right reasons, and that was to raise awareness and help people because I hadn’t found any help when I was looking. There are a lot more sites on N’s now than even 3 years ago.
      I have thought at times that it keeps me in the muck of James but when I have felt like I am getting brought down by the blog I will take some times away from it to clear my head. I have to admit I cry when I read comments or some of the emails that I get, my heart breaks for some victims but it is also so very rewarding to know I am helping them. When I get a message or email saying I saved someone’s life or their sanity or reading my blog gave them the courage to finally leave; it is such a gratifying feeling, it makes everything I went through so worthwhile! I would not change a thing about my past because it has brought me here and this blog has turned the ugliest, most painful experience of my life into the most fulfilling and positive thing to ever happen to me.
      It took me almost 3 years to feel healed, now I don’t know if that is because I was on here talking about him and it slowed my healing down or if I was just that broken. I don’t know how I would have survived without the blog and now it is such a huge part of my life I can’t imagine not having it. I am changing my career and everything because of it. I have had people tell me that my blog feeds James’s ego and I suppose it does. and Yes he does know about the blog and he has been in here trying to slander me and I have blocked him etc, he came in under alias’s, he started his own blog trying to discredit me and he uses my name and blog name so it comes up when people Google my name. It has been 3 years and he is out to destroy me. Called my employer and gave an anonymous complaint about me, thank God they believed me. same as he almost got me evicted by making anonymous complaints but once again I was believed, but I am going to have to go to the police because it is criminal harassment now and I have been advised to inform the police. There are a bunch of posts on all of this so I won’t go into it all. It has been 2 years of him lurking in here, slandering me on blogs that he puts up and takes down, he had 3 of them going at one time.
      What James fails to realize is it isn’t about him, it is about abuse and narcissism and yes it is because of him I even know about narcissism but I am not doing this to get back at him or make him look bad. No one would ever find it if they were looking for stuff on him. NOW they will because i started another blog in rebuttal to his blog and there I use his full name. Just because I am sick of him thinking he can do whatever the hell he wants and get away scot free. It might antagonize him but what doesn’t? the only way he will be happy is if I am dead or living under an overpass somewhere and he was on a mission to destroy me long before he knew about the blog, long before I started the blog.
      I have not heard of one N that found out about their ex’s blog and was happy about it and didn’t try to shut it down so if you are going to use names be prepared.
      Hope that answers your questions.
      Good luck
      Hugs
      Carrie

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  • Ness

    Well, recently I have been writing about moving forward in the right direction. Things have changed radically overnight. I went back to a very stressful employment position I think before I was ready. I have worked hard for months now and still can’t get ahead financially. I have a car that I purchased, it was brand new three years ago when I lived a better life and now I have come to the conclusion that I will sell it. In a five year period I went from paying off a 3 acre property at the heart of Mt Tamborine in Queensland to a unit I can just afford to get with no furniture right now. Not even a fridge, to say I am depressed is an understatement. I relocated from Melbourne for a sea change after my son left home to create a beautiful life in the sunshine. Talk about sliding doors, Queensland has ruined me. I wonder what my life would be like if I had have stayed in Melbourne.My life has literally been about letting possessions go one after the other. Now, my car. I had a blow out on Friday, all the stress and loneliness just got way over my head and I turned to alcohol. I don’t drink every day, but if I am under a huge amount of stress or incredibly lonely sometimes I will go there. I had to sit down this weekend and do some real soul searching. I have pushed myself back into work to pay for material things that I can live without right now. My heart is not happy where I am, I miss my family and friends back home. I ended up in this area due to fleeing from my N to a refuge, it is incredibly quite with reduced opportunities and support. I told myself that I could just suck it up and work, go home and get on with it. I don’t think it’s that simple. I spoke to a counselor for DV in my desperation for answers to the reason behind some of the ‘risky’ behavior I can demonstrate now and that scares me. I told her that I have become a different person as before the abuse there is no way I would act like this. Just wouldn’t enter my head. 98% of the time I work hard and keep my head down. She advised that it sounds like I am still dealing with post traumatic stress. I was seeing a counselor but can’t afford to anymore now and anyway, I was hanging onto the the last of my worldly possessions. What I have realised is that my mental and physical health is more important than what I own. I am at rock bottom but somehow being here right now is more calming. It sounds strange, but I no longer have to worry about reaching it, it has arrived. I do have dreams about a better future and that does keep me wanting to get up every day. I am lucky that I can go back to work eventually. The creditors are at the door, but they will just have to keep knocking, I’m over being the mouse on the wheel. I am breaking out of the fear for once. So, will be moving shortly back to Melbourne with a bit of a plan. At the very least, I won’t suffer the unbelievable loneliness and solitude I have been experiencing. I wish I knew the lessons I am suppose to learn from all of this! I haven’t pieced that together yet. I will be following my gut from now on which is where my new decision has come from, maybe that is part of it.

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    • Carrie Reimer

      (((((((((((((((Ness)))))))))))))))))))) I understand and I think you are doing the right thing going back to where you have people who love you and can/will support you emotionally. I have been where you are and I made the same mistake you did, I thought I was a lot stronger than what I was. I thought I would just work through it, recoup my losses and carry on, I could do this but it was all too much and it took two heart attacks for me to finally admit I couldn’t do it alone. You are smart to realize it now and redirect your course. You can never go wrong by following your gut.
      The crazy behaviour is part of the PTSD, it is from living in a totally dysfunctional relationship for so long, nothing is normal or how you know it should be, you end up trying to think like a crazy person, try to make sense of insanity, it drives you into almost a panic mode, always living with heightened emotions, always doing everything you can to please the N and never able to do it like a mouse running on a wheel.
      We are so used to be in control of our lives, working hard and getting by it is hard to “give up”, to me it was like admitting defeat. I had lost everything I owned several times when I was with James and then again when I left him and then again when I was out in that holiday trailer. It seemed I could not win for losing, that I wasn’t getting any breaks like I used to. My emotions were always on the surface, I was short tempered, always close to tears, easily frustrated and just not functioning no matter how hard I tried. It is hard to say I need help but it is not weakness, it takes courage to to say I need help, I can’t do this alone.
      I have creditors calling all the time and I have had to just let it go, there is nothing I can do about it. What can they do, get blood out of a stone? I tell them, my circumstances have changed, I tell them I have left an abusive relationship and had 2 heart attacks and there is nothing I can do. Just tell them the truth and then don’t answer their phone calls any more. In Canada, by law they are not allowed to harass you.
      You are wise to just put everything else on hold and take care of yourself. I have learned that material possessions can be replaced and over rated and what really counts is family and people who care about you.
      I have everything I need to be comfortable (most of the time lol) and I paid very little for it or got it for free, when I think about all the tears I shed and stress I went through trying to hang onto “things” I shake my head. I have lost and replaced everything so many times I lost count. I learned the hard way that what truly matters in life are the people in our lives, people who love us and want the best for us, not people who want to bring us down, people who will help lift us up when we stumble.
      I think you are going to find yourself healing now, and when you are done healing you will find a peace and serenity you never thought possible. I don’t consider it “giving up” now, but when I “gave up” and admitted I couldn’t do it alone, that is when real change and positive things started to happen, so fast sometimes I couldn’t keep up with it mentally. I am the same person I always was but not at the same time. I have a much deeper understanding of who I am and I appreciate myself so much more and refuse to compromise who I am for anyone ever again. I think you have started a journey that will be very exciting for you, a rebirth. You have been brought to your breaking point and now have to rebuild and decide what is really important in life. It is an opportunity not all people get and there is reward at the end of the journey. You don’t know what it is yet, but I believe you will find your true purpose in life through this journey. I never in a million years planned to be where I am now, doing what I am doing, writing and trying to pursue a career helping people but no matter what is going on in my life now I have an inner peace I can’t describe. it comes from following your gut and knowing yourself intimately and liking yourself.
      Congratulations on following your gut and making this huge step, you will not regret it. I am excited for you. Sometimes we don’t need to know everything, some times we just have to take life one step at a time and life will unfold as it should and take us where we need to be.
      Much love and hugs to you.
      I can’t wait to hear what happens next in your life.
      Carrie

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  • ellie2013

    Donna and Carrie, Good Morning!

    Parenting “with” an N is impossible, you “parent” alone. An N does not have it in them to be a “parent” in the true sense of the word. Most of them “want” children like they want any new “product” that comes out on the market, to say they have “it” The children become “objects” in their sick game, little pawns to move around at their will to get them the attention and supply their need at whatever moment they need it. They also, at times become the “whipping post” the thing they can blame for ruining their life, when the kids are not doing their “job” of getting them the “attention” the N had them for in the first place. You illustrated it in your post. The car is smoking but he is looking for a thank you for washing it. It was washed to get the cudos, so he could feel like a “big man” it had nothing to do with doing it for her. Nothing they do is done with any feeling behind it, except for THEMSELVES.

    You have to remember , at all times, that the N never has the childs best interest at heart. That never comes into play. It is whatever they think they want at any given moment, and that moment can change in a blink of the eye. You, as the only parent, have to make a concerted effort at all times to keep what is good for the child first and foremost in you mind and stand firm. Despite any guilt about “he is their father”. He is their sperm donor,nothing more. If your daughter does not want to visit him, at her age she does not have to. She can go to court and let them know, but truly no court system is going to force a child 16 plus years to “visit” their parent, if they don;t want to. I am thinking what is at play here is your daughter feels she should visit him. That she “should” have contact because that is her father. Perhaps you still recieve child support for her so she feels that the 2 are connected. They aren’t, at least not in the court system. A “simple” talk with her, very matter of fact, “if you don’t want to go you don’t have to” and then simply let her “not” go will help. The action before the understanding. Once she feels free to not be obligated to visit she will open up to discussing why she does not want to. On the other hand, IF she wants to there is nothing you can do to stop that either. But, I do not believe “body guards” which her brothers are playing the role of, should be necessary or even healthy. IF things were “good” on her visits why are they needed? Perhaps they are shielding her yes, but she would see him for what he is quicker if she was not protected from the “truth”.

    Carrie was right about the “damage” N parents can do and all the damage begins very very early before we even think of leaving. The things the children observe, the fights, the gas lighting, the broken promises and the abuse take their toll, kids remember these things, don’t fool yourself. They may pretend they do not but they do. They bury some of it but it will rear its ugly head later in life. I am a firm believer of weekly counselling for kids that have the unfortunate luck to have an N for a parent whether there appears to be issues or not.

    Not sure this was any help, I am no expert. I just have had the bad luck to have children w/ one of the heartless bastards. They are grown now and he has now continued to try to play his games with the grand daughter. One thing I can guarantee you, it will never stop, it will go on for generations unless you take an active part in stopping the abuse. Education and open communication about NPD when they can understand is the beginning.

    Good luck and huge hugs,

    Ellie

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  • Bronwyn

    Hi, after 28 years of marriage to a narc., of constant stomach churning and wondering why I was so useless, I came across a list of characteristics of narcissists on Pinterest of all things! It was the most wonderful, liberating thing I had ever read!! It all of a sudden made complete and utter sense, and set me completely free. From having lost all sense of who or what I am, I am embarking on the most wonderful exciting journey of finding out who I really am, at the princely age of 54!! My husband is not an extreme version, I am pretty sure I wouldnt have to run and hide, although he is vindictive, I have a strong family base (who know he is difficult, but I have never shared with them exactly what he is really like – protecting the asshole!!!) I have always thought that I was weak and a waste of oxygen, but have just realised how strong I am to have put up with all his toxicity over the years. I have completely disconnected from him emotionally, and now will stand up to him when he puts me down. The amazing thing is that he is backing down a bit, and is not talking to me in such a derogatory way anymore. He is a highly intelligent man and has realized, even if it is subconscious, that he has lost me. I am just working on the incredibly exciting journey of reconnecting with myself, and will make the move to leave when I am good and ready and it suits me. A little thing, he has always insisted that I grow my hair, which does not suit me. I am going to tell him shortly that I am taking my hair “back” and am going to go and have it cut how I want. Seems an inconsequential thing but a huge step forward for me. It seems he wants to keep me ugly and frumpy! For the first time in 28 years I feel like life is worth living!
    Bronwyn

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    • Carrie Reimer

      Bronwyn, Welcome and congratulations on finding answers after 28 years of hell! It is exhilarating and freeing when you discover it isn’t you after all!! I hate to burst your bubble but I must caution you about what to expect and I advise you to download the PDF file I offer for free up at the top, the safety plan. and please read the posts on leaving a narcissist. I won’t go into it all now, it is late and I am tired but I want to warn you to not let him know you are planning on leaving, do not tell him what he is, and I would tone it down a bit and not be in his face with this new attitude. He may appear to be backing down but that is because he doesn’t know what is going on but he won’t like it and he will be thinking of ways to make you complaint again. you could be shooting yourself in the foot. It is rarely a good thing to confront a narcissist and tell them they are wrong. If he has been emotionally, mentally, financially abusive, he is capable of physical abuse and if pushed into a corner, murder. N’s do not like to lose, and they do not like rejection, or non-compliance with their demands. if you have been compliant up until now he has had no need to be physical. For one thing if he thinks you are planning on leaving him he will clean out the bank account and do everything he can to screw you out of any money. You may not believe it now but ask the women in here; most victims of a N leave with nothing. He will go on a smear campaign and tell everyone you did to him what he did to you. You need to read a lot more and educate yourself in order to protect your future security. You need to be very stealth and secretive. My safety plan lays it out pretty clearly. Plus there are numerous posts about it.
      You have made the first step to a bright future, we are here for you every step of the way and will help anyway we can. Learn from our mistakes.
      Hugs
      Carrie

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  • Michele

    Ok, here goes as I hide my face in shame. In July 2012, my N “froze” me with the cold stare of it is over, blah…blah…blah. He moved out and went to his other supply or one of them.

    I joined this group and felt so empowered with the no contact. I divorced him within 2 months of him leaving and moved to another city and restarted my life, living out OUR dream (the one he and I had always talked about).

    Fast forward to May of 2013. I receive a call from my corporate office (in a different state/city), that he is there “visiting friends”. He knew damn well someone would call me. So…I buckled and texted him about what the hell was he doing at my employer and I’d appreciate it if he’d stay away. Hmmm…he now had my new phone number.

    Then came the I’m sorrys, the miss my best friends, etc. We need to talk came next. I was smitten again with the words. So the talk went something like this. After you divorced me, I let my pride get in the way. I couldn’t call you etc. I started dating this “girl” (woman of 39 years old, 3 children by 3 different daddys) and she got “knocked up”. I don’t love her…I don’t want her….yadda yadda. So…me being the idiot, fell right back into the “i’ll help you through this.” We remarried one month later.

    The mask has fallen off again and baby girl (who he wants nothing to do with is 10 months old). Paying child support as he should. We had a little disagreement and out came, “I gave up the baby because I didn’t want you and the mother fighting over me.” Um….ok. I sat there in awe and dismay.

    I am stuck…..he has now moved to my new state/city and all I can think of is how the HELL do I get out of this? What an IDIOT! Highly educated woman who had just gotten on her feet only to relapse into the NARC world.

    Any help/support/slapping around *grin* would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks, Carrie for this place of support. I’m going to need it. But this time I need to do it safely too. After all, “he moved to me and gave up everything”. Ugh….just like I did back in 2010 for him.

    Michele

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    • Carrie Reimer

      Michele, welcome back, don’t hide your head in shame, I did it too and that is why I am here trying to help others. I am sorry you are back and a little surprised because you sounded like you really were resolved but then so was I when James called and said he had 6 months to live and I went back. I will give you a hug, and support but no slap.
      I have a safety plan up at the top of the page, it gives tips on how to leave a narcissist safely, it’s a free download and worth checking out because I want you to stay safe and even if he has never hit you before, you are leaving him this time and that is a totally different ball game. First and foremost be safe! and smart.
      I know how convincing they can be and how easy it is to fall right back into the relationship and he will try to manipulate you through guilt etc but have no doubt he will leave you again after he has sucked everything he can out of you.
      I gather he moved in with you? Are you renting or do you own the house? You are doing well at your job and this is your home town is it not? so you don’t want to leave the town. I seem to remember you saying you were going back to your old town. If I knew the situation better I could come up with some ideas for you.
      One thing for sure, journal everything, open a different bank account and start putting money aside, in someone else’s name even, a family member? Don’t let him know you are planning on leaving or splitting, if he has any heads up he will do whatever he can to screw you over.
      I am sorry you are going through this but all is not lost. Just don’t do what I did, let my pride get in the way and refuse to admit I made a mistake and was bound and determined to make it work this time. I waited far too long before I got out and I am still paying the price. The worst thing a victim of an N can do is be successful and happy without them, if you go back to them they will make you pay for it and as with James try to destroy you so next time you aren’t able to recoup. You must be very stealth and protect your ass..ets
      Big Hugs
      You can do this, you are not alone.
      Carrie
      PS I am glad you came back looking for support and didn’t try to do it all on your own.

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      • Michele

        Sweet Carrie:
        Always know what to say. Let me answer a couple of your questions. He moved in with me after we remarried. We are renting and my home town in about 9 hours from here (where I plan to go). He moved here to live “our dream”.

        Yes, I had made so much progress but…relapsed. I do have a great job but to be honest, I can find another. I now have a secret checking account where some of my direct deposit goes as he doesn’t control the money. I believe he feels my withdrawal but I am a pretty good actress.

        This will be a well thought out and well orchestrated plan. Step by step it will come to fruition. I have a goal of a certain month this year.

        There are days when I feel like “everything is fine” only to be reminded days later why I need to leave. He will be desperate when I do go as he financially cannot make it on his own. Now I see tears these days – I guess he’s perfecting his game.

        Thanks again for your support!

        Hugs!

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        • Carrie Reimer

          Michele, you sound like you have your head on straight and keeping your options open. Having a well laid out plan is imperative. Good luck and please keep me informed and if you need to vent feel free that’s what I am here for :) Just don’t let his tears get to you, they are such good actors but that is all it is, an act.
          I went ten years of days when “everything was fine” only to be reminded of why I needed to leave and I went back so many times I make myself sick. Half the time when I went back it was because I felt sorry for him and was just going to help him out and then got sucked back into it, he ended up moving in or something and before I knew it we were right back to the same old shit. I am happy to hear you are smarter than me. :)
          Big hugs
          Carrie

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  • Carrie Reimer

    Hi, Gem, I’m glad you decided to pop in, it looks like it was slow tonight but if you are concerned about anything or have any questions just ask and someone will answer before too long.
    Hugs
    Carrie

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  • ellie2013

    I agree with you completely Claire. But this is where the blurred line begins. There is the school of thought that says by saying that the victim allows the N to abuse, enables, we are ‘blaming’ the victim. There is a point in my mind anyways that once you realize , somewhat what you are dealing with, you have a responsibility to yourself and your children to somehow begin to extricate yourself from the situation. Certainly counselors can help bring you to that point too. But you must want it. Must want to get better. make life better, somehow. If not for yourself but for your children. I felt very sad reading the post you responded to. Felt sad that someone would not think twice about allowing an azzhole back not only into her life but into her childrens life. But I do accept for some, having the azzhole , they think, is so much better than being alone. at least he is in their bed, at the moment. regardless of where or whom he has been with. and in that moment it was very clear how much or an addiction it is. It puts a crack or heroine habit in personifed form. an addict knows that the drug will eventually kill them and they do not care, they live for the feeling of the moment, even if it doesn’t last, they have it for that one fleeting moment. And they live for that moment. Will give up anything. Their pride, their health, their children. As much as we, as women do not like to think it, being alone is not the worst thing in the world. It can be the best for us, truly. To learn to rely on us, know we are capable and worthy. And to know we are strong :) No matter what. Isn’t that what we should be showing our children? So that the cycle of abuse does not continue?

    Big hugs to all the ladies ( and men ) here. Praying for us all.

    Ellie

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  • Claire

    So true, Carrie, so true.

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  • Carrie Reimer

    Loujean, it put a huge smile on my face to read your “colorful language” To know that starting this blog has helped you and so many others change their circumstances and better their lives makes what I went through all worthwhile. Every time I see a woman get strong and stand up for herself I can’t help but feel a sense of pride. Not for anything I have done but to just see a woman be strong and stop taking the abuse makes me proud of all strong women.
    It is such an empowering feeling to stand up for yourself and say “I am not taking shit from anyone” to be in control of your life and emotions. It is mind boggling that anyone male or female could think they have a right to do whatever they want and expect to get away with it, and for decades they have……….but things are changing. Because of all the other people out there with blogs and a voice speaking out, because of people like you who stand up for themselves and lay charges and speak the truth. What is that saying
    “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.”
    ― Margaret Mead
    Hugs
    Carrie

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  • Claire

    Hi Gem,

    I am confused. The last time you wrote didn’t you say your husband had kicked you and your children out of the house and you couldn’t even get back and get your belongings? So you reunited and he left again? I feel truly sorry for you; what you are living sounds like nothing short of hell. The back and forth with the ex must be torturous. You must never feel truly happy and secure, because even during the few good times you know it will not last long. You’re constantly waiting for the ball to drop, for the rug to be pulled from under you. And you poor children… They are the real victims here. They don’t deserve this. My advice is to go reread the advice Carrie and others provided the last time. He will never change and your nightmare will continue for as long as you stay with your husband. You need some serious professional help, counseling by someone who understands narcissists. This is what your life will be like as long as keep going back, simple as that. Only you can stop the cycle of abuse and help yourself and your kids. God Bless.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Carrie Reimer

    Gem, I agree with everything everyone else has said here. It is hard to know what to say because most of us would have drawn the line quite a while ago. At this point I am not very sympathetic because I just can not understand how a woman can put her children through this time after time.
    You said in your last messages that you and the children had become happy with him gone and yet you let him back in and then you ran for safety with the children and he locked you out of the house so you couldn’t even get clothes for yourselves. At that time I had said the children had to come first and this had to end.
    At this point you are abusing your children as much as he is. A parent has to put the children first above their own personal desires no matter how self destructive they are.
    If you were single I would say, whatever, do what you want because you always do any way. You come in and cry about all the horrible things he does to you, there is nothing left for him to do except bring another woman home and have sex with her right in front of you. Yet the minute he walks through the door, without an apology or even a feeble attempt at lying!! you take him back. You don’t even ask for an apology. (I guess you know it is pointless) you just spread your legs and let him back into your bed.
    He isn’t disrespecting you, YOU are disrespecting yourself.
    Where this is all going to end up is beyond anything I can imagine because it appears you have no boundaries whatsoever.
    I feel the most sorry for your children, what they must be going through is heart breaking.
    I wish we could help you but we have all tried time and time again and you don’t listen. I know you will say it is out of your control, you love him so much you can’t say no.
    I am sorry that does not hold water after a certain point. You can not possibly love someone who treats you this way. You are addicted, you have such low self esteem you believe you deserve it or some other self defeating self depreciating thoughts you have playing in your head,
    My suggestion would be to find someone to take care of your children who will give them a stable home and get yourself into extensive counseling and when you are strong again be the mother your children deserve.I am sorry to be this brutal but really, sympathy doesn’t work. Someone needs to give you a shake and make you open your eyes.
    I will be praying for your and the children.

    Like

  • ellie2013

    Morning Claire and Gem

    I am like you Claire, I am so confused at this moment. Last we had heard, Gem had left the N due to contracting an STD she got from the N from him convorting around with Hookers during his 6 months absence.

    I am sitting here wondering what could possibly be so wonderful about a man ( using the term loosely) that sticks his dick inside of everything ( including the “plumber” , her words, not mine) that you not only go back but get back into bed with him? Hence, getting kicked and verbally abused for having a dream? I must be missing something. I am hoping she can explain so we can try and understand.

    Worrying about calling him? WHY? Why would anyone call someone like that? He sounds worse than the devil himself.

    Yes, the poor children. What they are learning, not the least of how to grovel and not have any respect for your self or your health. That abuse is ok if it is given by your husband and finally even when he leaves you ( a blessing! ) you sit there and wait for him and try not to call him for support. The person that infected you and endangers your childrens well being. Their mothers health?

    yes, perhaps re reading all the prior responses might help. As well as intense therapy. I can only offer prayers. I am fresh out of advise.

    Like

  • Claire

    Good Morning Ellie,

    I agree 100% with everything you said. I believe this has nothing to do with the N or the qualities he has that clearly we’re missing. We know he is scum- bottom line. Let’s call a spade a spade. This comes back to Gem, as it comes back to all of us when we are with an N. Gem is a N’s goldmine. She has no self respect, no self love and no boundaries. Her husband can do anything, physically abuse her, infect her with sexually transmitted diseases, leave her time and time again and she will just continue to take him back. There is no way I could even imagine it. I got a small taste during my brief relationship with my exN and I had enough. I remember saying to myself, no sir, I will not allow you to treat me this way. Loving him was coming at a cost of loving myself and I could not and would not accept that. Anytime a man makes us chose between loving them and loving ourselves, its time to get out. Like I said, I just feel very sorry for Gem and the children at this point. I just couldn’t live like that, no way. Yes, intense therapy, starting to try and learn how to love herself, respect herself… I don’t know SMH. But when a parasite attaches itself to a host and the host just sits there and lets it drain them to death… who is the real problem, the parasite or the host?

    I just took my nephew to see the Disney movie Bears this past weekend. It was a documentary of sorts where this camera crew taped this bear and her two cubs in the wilderness for one year. Well the papa bear was nowhere to be found, so I guess they impregnate the females and get lost (surprise, surprise). But the mama bear has to protect her cubs from other bears and animals that want to eat them, search for food and eat as much salmon as she can so that she can feed her cubs milk throughout the winter hibernation, she has to do it all. It was just fascinating to me how the mama bear has to be so strong and do everything on her own. Just goes to show how tough females are in nature and in life. I don’t really know why I brought that up…

    Anyway, how are you Ellie?

    Like

  • ellie2013

    :) Claire xx hugs xx

    I am being a Mama bear as usual, and a Gamma Bear LOL It’s all I know how to do. Instincts. Being on our own is best when we have not made good choices in the past. I am strong, capable and when push comes to shove, I like myself. Some things I would change, am working on them but most, well, I have worked long and hard to get where I am. If I can do it, anyone can.

    How’s you?

    Like

  • ellie2013

    I am going throw this in, for what it is worth. Since N’s have run rampant for generations in my family of origin, I worry about the grand baby. Have always , her mama and I tried to set boundaries for her to follow. Taking a stand, not being a “follower” that type of thing. Well, there was an incident in school on Friday. A little boy that has the assigned lunch seat next to her and picks on her hit the bottom of her drink bottle while she had it tilted up to her mouth at lunch thus spilling the drink all over her. She stood up, I guess she was shocked her juice was all over her not in her. Her first words to him” I am telling!” His response ” You are going to tell on me? Get me in trouble? ” Her response ” YES! You had no right to touch me or my drink” Him ” But I will get in trouble” Her: “I do not care” And tell she did! Marched herself to whatever teacher would listen :) We are proud of her. It’s little things like this, they have to start young. You have to support them. Give them boundaries. Talk. Communicate. Be watchful. Somehow have to break the pattern.

    Like

  • Claire

    Ellie,

    Awww (((HUGS)))… I am with you. I think that was my point. If a papa bear comes along, he better be a really good guy who can help and bring something to the table! Otherwise, why bother??? The mama bear can do it all fabulously and on her own, feed her babies, provide for them, nurture them, shelter them. Although I don’t have any cubs, that’s what I do for myself. I just cannot see being bothered with someone who brings nothing but instability, selfishness and pain and is an overall burden.

    I feel like I’ve come a long way. Even though my breakup wasn’t that long ago, I feel like a completely different person. I’m an N’s nightmare. They wouldn’t want to be bothered with me. I am too mouthy and quick to tell a guy to buzz off, I don’t need you.

    You’re right… being able to look in the mirror and truly like the person looking back at you is so important. I’m working on myself too. When you work on you, you can never go wrong. I have this yoga teacher who is awesome, I mean in great shape, killer physic, been doing yoga for like 20 years… and she regularly takes other people’s classes just to learn and improve herself… No matter how good someone is they can always get better. I’m just working, taking care of my dog and planning a vacation with my Mama bear… so life is good. I am blessed. :-)

    Like

  • claire

    That’s great Elllie! I agree, it starts early… especially with a girl who will grow up to be a woman. Its so crucial to teach them early to love and respect themselves and have boundaries.

    Like

  • Carrie Reimer

    I agree totally Ellie, it is the little things like spilled juice that later turn into a woman not calling the cops because it will get the guy in trouble. Allowing someone to pay the consequences of their actions and not feeling responsible to save them from that and too many times especially little girls are taught to “play nice”.
    I think setting a good example is important also. I didn’t have a girl but even with my boy I taught him how to treat a woman with respect, for that matter everyone with respect and manners but I also taught him that his feelings count. I always listened to what he had to say and then sometimes I would change my mind if I had said no, or I would compromise and I was always able to back my decision with logic. People said I was too soft on Kris but I never wanted to be the kind of parent that said, “Do it because I said so.” or for him to feel his feelings didn’t matter.
    The end result is a man who is confident, self-sufficient, hard working, respectful of women but not expecting a woman to complete him either or that he can;t get by without a woman. I think it is just as important that our boys are self aware. it is possible to be self aware, strong and firm in your boundaries and still be respectful of other’s beliefs and values. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

    Like

  • Carrie Reimer

    Claire, so nice to hear such a positive attitude!! You are so right!! We have to take care of number 1 and work on ourselves. As much as the N was wrong to abuse the victim, at some point the victim has to take control of their own life and take responsibility for their future happiness and safety. The best way to do that is to know and love yourself. That never ends, you can always be a better person and learn more about yourself. The more in tune a person gets with themselves the less they need a man in their life and the higher their standard become in what they will accept from a man. The more in tune you are with yourself the easier it is to stand firm with your boundaries etc.
    The more you like yourself and believe in yourself it is amazing how easy it is to say, “No, I don’t want this and walk away.” No self doubt,
    it is such a liberating feeling.
    Good on you!! I am loving it!!

    Like

  • Claire

    Thanks Carrie! Yes I finally feel like I am equipped to go out into the world without worrying about a man hurting me or becoming someone’s victim. It’s such a refreshing and freeing feeling. I know I have control over what happens to me. I know I do not need a man. My standards are very high, maybe too high LOL. I sometimes think I’ll be single forever because the men I meet simply don’t meet my standards. But I’m not going to lower my standards just to be with a man. If he can’t meet my standards I simply say no thanks and move on. I think that’s what is wrong with a lot of us women, we think having a sub-standard man is better than having no man at all. Having a man in my life would be a cherry on top, but I’m already the cake. I’m enough for me.

    I owe a lot of this to you. I want to thank you for this site. It has helped me more than I can say. That is why I keep coming here, because I always learn more and find more benefits in reading other’s stories, your posts, women who have made it out of the darkness like you give me great inspiration. Thank you, Carrie.

    Liked by 2 people

  • ellie2013

    Gem,

    You are right,we don’t know you. We only know what you have told us, what you have written. And you have written plenty. And each of us has responded to what you have written based on the facts as you have presented them. It’s all we can do.

    Each and every time you have posted, it appears, by what you have written, you have gone lower and lower into the N’s abyss as you called this place. You wrote ( from the bed you were sharing w/ him, after he had been gone 6 months with no communication or care about his children ) that he would not talk to you, wouldn’t explain where or why he had been gone. But there in bed with him you were. You told us he had locked you out of the house with your children so you could not get your possessions, you told us you now have an std ( you can only get those by having sex, btw , which means you again were having sex with him, bed or floor does not matter which) and then you post HE is leaving you again and ask for support to not call him. WTF? What are we supposed to think other than what you have told us? If there is more to the story ( and I am sadly sure there is) please share.

    What you have told us is extremely damaging to children to witness. They hear and see and get unspoken messages from the abuse they are witnessing. And it is abuse to subject them to what you have described.

    I am wondering how much the amazing therapist knows of what you have told us? Did she think it was a great idea to jump in bed w/ him after he had been gone screwing hookers, plumbers ( and probably bakers and candlestick makers too ). Did she tell you we were incorrect to change the locks on your home to protect your children? Did she tell you to have the bed made us fresh and pretty and the pillows fluffed just in case he showed up so that you could jump in immediately and not miss the chance before he might have had a change of mind? After he had locked you out of the home and you had to run to the neighbors for safety , did she tell you to go back, no matter what, safety be damned, get back into that house with him, subject your poor children to more dysfunctional BS, they had not had enough already?

    To suggest extreme extensive therapy was the ONLY advise and support ANYONE could suggest based on the facts as you presented them.

    Yes, only 3 weeks….no big deal right? So much permanent damage can be done to children in that amount of time. Perhaps we seem cruel and heartless and not compassionate however, we are seeing very clearly what you are describing. Perhaps it is just not the kind of support you are wanting to hear. AND, just maybe YOU are not the one that is seeing the situation clearly. Please go back a read all that you have posted in the past. It’s all there, in black and white.

    God bless, still praying for your poor kids.

    Like

  • Carrie Reimer

    Gem. maybe I did misunderstand you. I am not going to argue with you about how you feel. i can only go on what you post here and what has been the outcome of any advice we have given you. Numerous times you have come in crying about the horrible treatment you have received from your husband and we have supported you and given you honest heartfelt advice and never hear from you again until the next time he does something horrible the last two times it was he came back from his 6 month vacation and you let him in. I know I know he “just showed up” your talking to the queen of de nile so you can’t fool me. You let him in, you didn’t want to rock the boat so you fell into bed with him and then it was done. You then try to set some rules, find out what the hell he has been doing and he refuses to tell you. What can you do, he’s in the house now.
    You knew he was screwing around on you while he was gone but you had unprotected sex with him anyway and got an STD.

    My ex went away for 6 months to Sudan as a missionary, I had no reason to suspect he was with a woman, and there was no way he could call me from there but when I discovered he had been with another woman I kicked his ass out and never had sex with him again. Your ex didn’t even try to lie. why should he? you just let him in and fell into bed with him. Why would you do that if you are not in love with him? for your children?
    THEN he kicked YOU and the kids out and you are crying because you can’t get back in to get clothes and we tell you to call the cops and not go back in that house and the next thing we hear is he has decided he is moving out. I don’t think for one minute you told him to get out,
    I will NOT back down on the fact that children witnessing this kind of behavior from their parents is terribly damaging to them. Look at how you react, you have told us you couldn’t function when he was gone, you were calling and not getting an answer etc. You can not tell me the children do not feel the tension, see you crying, aren’t afraid when daddy kicks them out of the house and you have to go to the neighbors. That is horrific for a child.

    I am sorry, you did not hear what you wanted to hear but i will kiss butt to make people feel better about their choices. And that is what this is. He is no longer an abuser and you are the victim. You are choosing to be the victim and have chosen to be the victim for some time now. IF you truly have had enough and are determined to make this break then I am behind you 100% and we will all be there when you need someone to talk to. We are all just sick of listening, giving advice and then hearing how you totally ignored us and went back.

    I realize it is hard, I know that as much as anybody but there comes a time you have to face reality and admit you are perpetuating the problem and contributing to it and it is undoubtedly damaging your children.

    Ok you made a mistake letting him come back after 6 months, God only knows what you were thinking but we all make mistakes. But I swear if the next time we hear from you it is to say he has given you another std or has disappeared for 2 weeks you will get another earful. If you come in and are talking about how he is being a jerk and not paying child support and you have been no contact for a few weeks then you are going to have everyone’s support.

    Really, think about it. how else are we supposed to react? Yes you ARE talking to people who have been there and we feel this way, so it has to be pretty bad for us to come down this hard on you. And not one of us, all of us. Because you needed a wake up call.

    I send hugs and prayers your way.
    Carrie

    Like

  • Carrie Reimer

    Good to see you Bluecitygirl! great advice.

    Like

  • Carrie Reimer

    Claire sorry for taking so long to reply, I got a little busy with Jill, Gem and Louise and then had a full email box for a few days but I appreciate your thanks. I am just happy that i was able to help in anyway. It is a great site, because of the people who come here, I am very proud of everyone who comes in here. They are all very caring kind souls and I get something out of here everyday. Someone inspires me or I learn something new myself. Just knowing I am helping people has been so healing for me.
    It is so refreshing to hear a woman say she is the cake! lol You are right, women have been “settling” and I for one would rather be alone for the rest of my life than settle for less than what I deserve.
    I think that is the pay off for all the hurt the N caused. People say, “oh you’ll get over it and find a man some day, you’ll be ok.” and I always think, I know I am ok! that is why I don’t need a man, because I KNOW I am ok. It is not a bad thing to be happy and content without a man, to not need a man to feel complete. Personally I would love a committed relationship where we keep our whole places because I am just not into catering to man 24/7. I like my freedom and a man is going to have to have a lot to offer me before I am going to give up the life I have on my own.
    Thank you Claire

    Like

  • ellie2013

    Good Morning Gem and Happy Mothers Day!

    I am sorry if we misunderstood your situation. I believe I speak for us all when , going by what you had previously told us, YOU wanted to be rid of the N. But your statement:

    ohhh if i did not have children ti this n I would have told him to stay the fuck in his country but my son loves his dad.

    says it all. From that statement, I guess it is safe to say you knew he was coming back and you welcomed him back, for your sons sake, of course.

    We were going by the premise that he just showed up. There is a difference if you made a conscious choice to allow him back into your house and into your bed, I guess. Not much, but a difference.

    Usually, you are right, the woman has to plan to leave safely in an abusive situation. You told us HE keeps leaving YOU, which is very different. Which gives YOU an opportunity that most abused women do not have, you CAN call the police when he is gone, YOU can change the locks and you CAN tell him to NOT come back, that you will see him in court to arrange visitation so he CAN see his son who loves him. It seems to me, and I really don’t mean to be unsupportive but YOU are wanting to be a part of his relationship with his son, like a package deal. HE can see his son but he has to HAVE you too. Most times that doesn’t work, as you have found out.

    On the other side, what have YOU done to be rid of the abuse? What have you done to protect you, your son and to extricate yourself from his control as you put it. Since you work in an abused womans shelter or counselling center you KNOW that women HAVE to help themselves, that the victim card can only be played for so long. That at some point, allowing him back , going back, is putting yourself and your children in grave danger.

    I am not going to defend this blog or Carrie. There is nothing to defend. This place is a God send to women in the grips of an N. The facts are laid out, the symptoms the signs. The support is here for those that want it. The support to leave , not to stay involved with them. It is not a place to complain and keep doing the same thing over and over again. This is a forum of some of the most compassionate women I know, but they will tell you things ” straight”. They will tell you things that perhaps you can’t see. Won’t see.

    I wish you well. I wish you safety. And most of all I wish you PEACE.

    Like

  • Carrie Reimer

    Gem, I have never wanted my blog to be a place where women come to get support to stay in the relationship; there are blogs out there where it seems that is their purpose, the same women come in year after year bitching about the same things over and over again. I was there myself, where the bitching about them and being a victim becomes a way of life. It is very real result of domestic abuse, the victim “becomes” a victim and without the asshole in their life they have no identity. Yes, I have said many times that I stayed 9 years too long in a 10 year relationship but I like to think part of the reason for that is because my son was not living with me. I can’t imagine staying in an abusive relationship because of my child. Because i feel it is my duty as a mother to protect my child and I would not have come down on you as hard if it was only you in the relationship. You are an adult and if you choose to stay with an abusive man that is your business, but when it involves children then I tend to take a stronger stance because it is so damaging to the children. No children want their parents to divorce, even in abuse situations they want the abuse to stop but they don’t want the family split up. They are too young to know the damage that is being done to them mentally. It is especially damaging if the child really loves both parents. I can remember laying in bed as a child listening to my mom and dad fighting and wishing to God they would just split up and end the fighting all ready. Most definitely it affects how I feel now about parents that stay the together for the kids. Don’t kid yourself, they don’t stay together for the kids, they stay together for themselves.
    Growing up with fighting damages them far more than living with one happy parent and having visitation with another happy parent. At least if they split the children know the will never be locked out of their house because daddy is mad at mommy because mommy got mad at daddy for disrespecting her and giving her an STD. Do you want your son to grow up thinking it is acceptable that the man of the house disappears for 6 months and then just walks in like nothing happened? Because that is what he is learning and your daughter; do you want her putting up with what you have?
    Our children learn from what they see. I am sorry if you don’t want to hear that but it is the truth. I am shocked that you volunteer with women in domestic violence and still think it is better to stay with the abusive partner. Staying is more damaging to your son’s relationship with his dad because it forces him to see his mother mistreated and puts him in the horrible position of defending his mother or taking daddy’s side. He has to do one or the other to make it ok in his mind.
    If you work with abused women then you know the abuse only ever gets worse, never better.
    I went back over all the comments you have made and the replies given by myself and the other women in here and everyone has been very supportive and gave sound advice and every single time there was no reply from you until the next time he abused you and then you came in told us what happened, asked for help, (in those words, help) and we gave advice and you disappeared and again when he abused you again you got good sound advice and concern from everyone.
    I have no desire to push anyone over the edge but I am not to coddle and sympathize with someone who is not doing something to help themselves and just comes in to cry the blues. I am not going to say oh that asshole, how horrible time after time again, I am going to give you solutions and support you through the tough journey after leaving him. But I admit I have no patience with women who refuse to take the advice given when they ask for it.
    Yes I went back myself and it was stupid of me but I also didn’t know what i was dealing with, I didn’t realize how evil he was because I hadn’t researched like you have. I am here to share what I learned and to tell women that it does not get better. I am here to give women what I didn’t have, knowledge.
    Like I said before if you have really left I will support you in your journey.
    But I am not going to argue with you as to whether I was sympathetic enough for you. There are many other sites that might be better suited to what you are looking for. You were not centered out, Ellie, Claire and me all call a spade a spade and it may hurt, but it is the truth and I think we have all lived on wishes, hopes and false promises too long and need the truth. You won’t get coddled in here. You kept saying that things were so much worse than what you were writing here yet now you are saying it only got abusive the last three weeks. Your message about him coming back was at the end of march that is 6 weeks ago and at that time you had an STD and things were worse than we knew. Now you are retracting that?
    I agree that leaving has to be done with caution and you have had 1 perfect opportunity to leave in complete safety and then another not so ideal opportunity when he kicked you out of the house and we all told you not to go back because he was building his alibi should he kill you. You could have called the police and been escorted to get your things. You are making it difficult to leave because you keep taking him back. You should know that every time you take them back the abuse gets worse and the probability of the violence escalating is greater until it is too late.
    Sorry you are upset with the blog, I/we have helped many people, in fact recently I went so far as to get the FBI to check on a woman and offer her help leaving. I will do everything within my power to help a woman who is in a bad situation but I am not going to candy floss it or let them lie to themselves. it almost got me killed, I am here to hopefully prevent women from dying.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Barbara

    Well said, Carrie! <3

    Like

  • Claire

    I agree 100% Carrie.

    Like

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