Support Forum

 

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To all new visitors! Welcome!!
You have found a great group of supportive people who have all been through what you are going through and understand completely the devastation you are feeling.
You are NOT crazy and you are not to blame, you are in a relationship or just left a relationship with a narcissist/psychopath. You are not alone. Come as often as you like to vent, ask questions, cry, and get support and encouragement.
All I ask is that everyone is respectful of each other’s opinions and understands that most everyone here are at a heightened emotional state. While with the narcissist the victim lived with constant trauma, drama and were told constantly that they were wrong to feel what they were feeling and that they were flawed in some way; it makes sense they are very sensitive to criticism. 
Opinions are just that, if someone has a different opinion than you it doesn’t mean someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong. Everyone is entitled to voice an opinion.
I may have an opinion you don’t agree with and I am more than willing to back up whatever I say, so feel free to question me and I will explain why I feel the way I do. Not to convince you I am right but to explain why I feel the way I do and maybe I will give you some information you didn’t know before. Or maybe you will enlighten me. An exchange of ideas is healthy and how we learn. 
Just remember, narcissists are basically all the same but the victims are as different as people can be, we all have our own history and frame of reference. Please respect that!
Hugs
Carrie

5,975 thoughts on “Support Forum

  1. I sent this this song to a very good friend. I hope it resonates with others. Please observe how he goes into the wall, and she comes out. This is very telling with our relationship with a narc Peace and prayers.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Hi All,

    have you all disappeared?.. Celine, healing… where are you? are you ok?

    I’m not that well.. I’m trying to sell the furniture that still is at my once shared apt in italy, a friend of us is helping with that and I hope she will be able to mediate between me and my ex partner. it seems to me like a nightmare, never ending..
    and today I’m going to have maybe the last real chance to stay here, if this won’t get ..I’ll have to go back. wish me luck.

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    • Hi Rosi,

      I’m doing okay. I’ve just been busy getting more involved with life things. I’m glad to hear you’re cutting all ties. You sound so much better! You’ll get through this. You’re strong! Hang in there.

      Hugs

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      • hi healing, Glad you’re doing ok. I don’t know if I’m really getting that better. but I try. things are very hard to deal with. I am pretty sure she will do anything to sabotate the sell of my furniture. we’ll see, anyway. Thank you for your support, ciao

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  3. Carrie,

    I have spent hours on your website and blog reading about other people’s relationships with narcissists. It was amazing to me to find out how common this is and how blind-sided I was to find out the person I had a relationship with was a narcissist.
    The biggest ah-ha moment was you three phases of a narcissist relationship. My situation was seemingly unique and I hope you can help.
    I am married and we were friends with another couple in the neighborhood. Said husband was immediately very flirtatious with me and pursued me for years, trying to keep and push our relationship to the next level. Seven years later, I caved and we began a physical relationship. The affair is known, he is divorced and I am working on my marriage. I could go into a lot of details but, the part that is confusing for me is that he pursued for so long, always wanting my attention, friends etc.

    We never went through the devaluation phase. Why is this? Because I was a constant narc extension so i was always a value to him. He obviously passed the abuse on to his wife who at the time I thought was a crazy manic depressive. Now I realize that he did that to her and used that to get my attention to feel sorry for him.

    *are there narcs that don’t devalue?
    *do they really have any genuine feelings or are all of their actions and words used for their benefit?
    *are they really just robots? Should I think that any of our relationship, including the friendship was real?

    Thank you for your website and comments, so helpful

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    • Hi Charity, You have addressed your questions and post to Carrie, so I can’t reply for her, but hope you don’t mind if I say something about your situation. I can’t say if your partner is a disordered person or not, I’m not a professional and they’re the only one supposed to make a diagnosis. You know there were weird things going on, and maybe what you guessed might be likely true: you didn’t get to the devaluation and/or discard phase just because the scapegoat was his wife. someone has to take it, and this is maybe why you were spared the worst treatment.

      good luck for everything, ciao

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      • Thank you Rosi- I apprecaite your point of view. Would be welcome to any feedback. Just trying to figure out how I was so blind. Thanks again!

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        • They don’t think like normal people Charity, so there was no way you could know. He has an incurable mental illness, be grateful that you will never fully understand.

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        • You’re welcome Charity. Like many of us, you are wondering why you coudn’t see before.. How could you? The answer is in your own description: he was charming, displaying (read: faking) feelings of love, making you feel you’re special. Everything was perfect, so you had no way to know. there is an inspiring analogy I’ve found on the web, maybe you have already heard about: if you put a frog in a pot og boiling water, the frog will jump immediately out and escape and save. But if you put a frog in a pot of cold water it will find that agreeable. Then you turn on the stove, water starts to warm, the frog will still find it agreeable. You increase the intensity of the warmth of the stove, the frog doesn’t realize, and it will cook up to death.

          obviously, things are much more complex than this when dealing with human beings and their feeling and behaviors but I think this can help figure out.

          Again, I wish you, and all of us, good luck. ciao

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          • Rosi,
            Thank you so much. I am sad to see that there a many that have dealt with this personality, I really appreciate you were all willing to offer help and advice. I have been suffering in silence. I wish you the best and hope you all find you peace and freedom. Power on! Thanks again!

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    • Hi Charity,

      Carrie is dealing with some personal issues so I’ll try to help as much as I can. Narcs are notoriously known to be wrecking balls, and they always want what they can’t have. It’s the thrill of the chase and game that drives them. He already had a willing hostage and victim, so there was no need for your devaluation. I can guarantee you, that you will be his next hostage and victim, if you continue any type of relationship with him. I’ll do the very best I can to answer your questions;

      Narcs always devalue. You were still in the idealization stage (lover and savior in his mind). They already have a victim, but they are always seeking replacement and new supply.

      Narcs have no emotions, as you and I per say. They operate of just a few basic “functions.” Adulation, hate, envy, and fear. Nothing more. Many have described them as programmed robots so it’s a very good analogy.

      The relationship was real to you, and that’s all that should matter. Narcs do not have a conscience, lack guilt, remorse and empathy. They are incurable as well. Your question here, is a very large part as to why the relationship bankrupts is so much. Go no contact, and don’t look back is my best advice.

      I hope I helped. Please continue researching and reading blogs. You will continue learning about what you dealt with, and it help you further understand. No contact, is the only way to heal from it.

      Holy Hugs

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      • Healing,

        Thank you for taking the time to respond to my situation. I sit here wondering how I couldn’t see it until it was too late. He was so good at making me feel bad for him because his wife so was so terrible to him…. He is such a charming fella, the kind that makes you feel like you are really damn special. So I guess all of the “I Love You”‘s songs, I would marry you etc really had no meaning to him. Only meant to keep my attention to get what he wanted? Thanks again, I am gradually putting the pieces together and figuring it out. I really appreciate your kindness and time to try to help me through this.

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        • Hi Charity,

          I’m glad I was able to help in some way. They are always charming in the beginning and we all don’t see the mask slipping until the end, so you’re in good company. The “love songs” meant something to him, but not what it means to me and you. Keep reading, and the pieces still start coming together more for you.

          Warm Wishes

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    • Charity, how did the affair get known? I am assuming that there was no devaluation stage because it ended before he had a chance to devalue you and yes I believe he was getting his “fix” from his wife and didn’t need to devalue you because he had her. That is what I tell victims all the time. Until they go no contact they are enabling the N to keep up his facade with the new woman. The sooner he loses the ex to beat up on the sooner he will start on the new victim because he can’t hide his true colors for very long.

      As for any part of the relationship being real. Narcissists are amazingly determined when they set their sights on someone, it is the “thrill of the kill”, he wanted you, most definitely, especially since you were married; to take another man’s wife is the ultimate in NS. I have heard of so many married women who were pursued unmercifully by the N and then once she destroyed her married, he dumped her or went back to his ex or she found out he never really left the wife at all. Narcs love the thrill of illicit love, triangulation. So yes he really wanted you, but it was to stroke his ego and nothing more. If he is a narcissist, I am taking your word for it. They may even think that what they are feeling is love because they become obsessed with the object of their desire but they are not committed to anything and can turn off the obsession insultingly fast if another conquest appears on the scene.

      I hope that answered some of your questions. Many times the N will make a curtain call, if he never truly devalued and discarded the victim he doesn’t feel he has really done the job right and will often come back professing his love and that now he has seen the light and knows what he truly wants just to get the victim to take him back so he can devalue and dump her.

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  4. I’m pleased to have found this blog. It took me many years to put a name to what my mother had put me through for years and that was only after I had read other people’s accounts of what they had endured. I have always known there was something wrong, even as a child, and it was my father who protected me from her abuse. As an adult I couldn’t understand what was happening to me and often questioned my own state of mind, but tried to get on with life (survive).
    Even now its hard to put into words the effect it has had on me as a person. At times I feel that I am only able to cope by blocking out what she has done. My mother still lives nearby and for a long time I tried to convince my husband that we needed to move away to really feel like I could get away from her grasp. I have since realized that would just be running away and would not benefit me in the long run.

    It has been 12 months since I first read about narcissistic abuse and the devastating effects it causes to the victims. I was able to share with my husband what I had found online. He has told me on many occasions before this that my mother had a particular way of undermining me. Both of us had no understanding or explanation why she was like she was. I have since come to the conclusion that out of two other siblings I was the one that was targeted, with my older brother always portrayed as the favourite, I was made to feel inferior in everything I did; this continued for decades, even to quite recently.

    We will be moving in a few weeks time, still in the same district. I am looking at this move as a shift in thinking; physically and literally. Writing on this forum is part of that shift. For some time now I have wanted to find a way to document my journey towards healing. I would be interested to know if others have found ways of expressing themselves. I have been researching using a visual/art journal as a creative release for my emotions and to begin to heal. There are no workshops or courses being run in our area; I live in a rural community, so I wondered if anyone could recommend an online course or blog that I could follow. I am open to any suggestions as this is a first for me. Except for my husband I have never been able to share my thoughts with anyone.

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  5. These are both great articles for all of us, regardless of where we are in our journey. In the beginning, I needed to make sure I felt negative toward him. I didn’t know enough to feel angry yet and was afraid I might have a weak moment. As I have said previously, I’m a very visual person and needed an image of him that was not endearing and didn’t produce feelings of love or sympathy.

    Have we all seen Men in Black? Remember the farmer, Earl, that the aliens inhabited and used his body to complete the mission they were on? He was a human shell for them to hide behind. This is now how I see my ex, whom I adored and loved wholeheartedly for 5 years. He is simply a shell that hides a miserable, unkind person with an evil mission. All narcs are nothing but empty shells masquerading as human beings like us, but they do not share our dreams and goals in life and they do not feel the same way we do. I honestly don’t think of him as human anymore and this has helped me move forward. I hope it helps some of you.

    http://blog.melanietoniaevans.com/hoovering-how-the-narcissist-tricks-you-into-breaking-no-contact/

    http://www.lisaescott.com/2011/03/17/why-narcissist-inevitably-devalues-discards-dd-you

    Hugs to each of you right where you are!

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  6. Hello everyone,
    I’m new here and would like to share my story to find similar experiences, advice, support for each other and understanding without judgement as a lot of people in my life don’t understand my experiences. I was with my ex narc partner for 5 years we have two children. I never knew he was a narc until after it finally ended at the start of this year and did some research into domestic violence and came across ‘narcissism. I never knew what was wrong with him and of coarse blamed myself. He would shut down entirely, would not speak to me, would not touch me, would not allow me to sleep in the bed. Anytime I needed him for emotionally support he was never there, it seemed like whatever I felt didnt matter. He treated me as an enemy as if he was constantly at war with me. He would verbally abuse me and try to turn my children against me, physically abuse me, sexually abuse me, financially abuse me. Time after time I would get sucked in and end up going back for a lot of reasons I wanted my family together and I was scared if I left he would hunt me down. He was insanely jealous, if he had a dream about me cheating on him he would beat me. I wasn’t allowed to have a mobile phone and if I went and got one it would become “his” phone or be smashed. If I didnt answer my phone I would have a million missed call messages, a million texts and my family would get constantly abused as well. I would always cry to him and say please just talk to me why wont you talk to me? and his response was “because I was annoying” ” I was crying to piss him off” ” I changed from who I was when we first started together and if I changed to that person then he would be how he use to be” “that he hated me and my children he wished we would go away” “because I was nothing but a ….every swear would imaginable”. These examples are only the tip of the ice berg. We spilt up for about 8 months last year during this time he had another partner and got her pregnant (unknown to me at the time) whilst with her he would constantly text and email me about how much he loved me, i was the only one for him, blah” he told me he was living under a bridge until later speaking to her and finding out the truth that he was living with her. I ended up getting back with him and he then told me this woman was pregnant which was heart breaking I then decided to make the decision to accept this and move forward with the relationship. However, a few months later he was messaging her and I never saw the messages but I can guess what they said. He ended up walking out on me and going back with her. I don’t want him back, when he walked out the door I felt a weight lift off my shoulders, I was free. I just dont like being thrown away like a peice of trash, that I didnt matter and everything I went through was for nothing. I also feel like he is still trying to power play with me, he brags constantly about himself and his “new” life and how hes trying to change. When not getting his own way he throws his temper tantrums and Im sick of if. I have to communicate to him because of our children.
    Thank you for reading xx

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    • hello maddy my story is somewhere on here but apart from the physical abuse i identify with things you are saying i was married for 28yrs still am but he left me for young women he sexially manipulated me to dress ilike a porn star like on his dirty sites he went on he was extremely controlling and aggressive verbally always blamed me for everything wrong in his life i became so anxious and scared he used to say its easy to please me if you do what i want everything will be ok i have got fibromyalgia and he made me wear heels so high my pain got so bad but it was a gradual grooming from early days buying me clothes me thinking they were presents so cleverly calculated 28yrs later the shock has hit me what i have been through it took that long to truly feel the impact i try to go no contact but he sends small texts usually needing something he brags about how happy he is now and he said we can be friends but there will be other women i have to keep him away as much as i can when i hear from him i get panic attacks and feel like i cant see him until i get stronger but he puts me back all the time so hard to pick yourself up again but they are not in control anymore we are worth more than how they think they can treat us but keep fighting we will gain composure and feel normal again i now have depression because of because of everything you are not alone this support group has saved me nearly every night please come here again if you need support healing and love to you x

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      • maddy also forgot to say he also turned my famoly against each other and manipulates my daughter to believe him of course she doesnt know everything i wouldnt want her to but she blames my parents bacause he told her how bad it was they wouldnt take me back when he tried to get rid of me they are old and mum is disabled nearly lost her this year but shes a fighter and i dont always feel it but i am too i hope i havent vented too much just i know how lonely and discarded you feel and the disbelief you feel when they leave

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      • Kim,

        I can tell you’re a very strong woman. I’m sorry for all that you’ve been through. Just know, you’re an inspiration to others. Sending holy hugs your way.

        Love and Light!

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    • Hi Maddy,

      Thanks for sharing. What you’re describing from experience is narc abuse we have all gone through in one form or another, so you’re not crazy or alone. I know you feel broken, but you’re not “unfixable.” He is, so don’t be fooled by his claims, he’s trying to change. They don’t, and are incurable. Be grateful you’ve finally broken free! May best advice is to go limited contact since you share children. There is no point for anything more other than his attempts to further abuse. Stay in the Light!

      Holy Hugs

      Like

  7. A growth opportunity these people! I am frustrated because of the endless drama the drama king that I got involved with has. On top of this, I need support to leave him again. The last two times I really didn’t have anyone to stay with me and let me know that I am going to be alright and to hang in there. I moved to another township and am going to college. This guy has gotten arrested for coming onto campus and starting his haughty stuff. I feel like I am going crazy and just sick. It’s gotten worse and I am the one processing all of the toxicity him and his family have.

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    • hello jennifer when you get involved with these people they gradually take our identity and cause so much stess it makes us phsically and mentally ill think of them as toddlers having a tantrum because thats what they are my advice is to ignore them as much as possible they have to learn their ways are not acceptable they are damaged themselves but affect us this site is brilliant for support i have found it to be you are not alone x

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    • Hi Jennifer,

      The only healing from this is going no contact, or limited contact if you share children. They don’t change, and are incurable. But you are! Break completely free, and begin the journey of loving, you.

      Holy Hugs

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  8. Hi Jerry,

    It’s very devastating after ending the relationship with a narc. If you both are on this website, there’s more than a very good chance he is a narc. Please watch Sam Vaknin’s videos on youtube to learn more. Please continue to research and maybe together. You’ll find all the stories very much the same. After doing the research was the point where I put the pieces together and started to break free. I then realized I missed the idea of who she was, not who she really is. This is what helped me detach even further. Hopefully understanding this will help M as well. After further research i discovered there are not curable, and this is when I knew it was truly over.

    She’s most likely been gaslighted and brainwashed so I believe she is still extremely confused and trying to make sense of it all. I’m sure she has tons of questions, but there is no way she will get any answers from him, and the ones she gets with definitely be more lies. They are pathological liars. There is no making sense of it which is partly what’s maddening. I’m sure she feels the whole world has been turned upside down at this point.

    Please let her know that she is truly in danger. They are socio/pychopaths without guilt, remorse or empathy or conscience. They are capable of anything and derive pleasure from hurting people. The abuse will never end, and if she continues contact he will continue making her life a living hell! The ONLY way to break free is NO contact. This is common knowledge with dozens, and every website I’ve visited about narcs. I really don’t have anyone to talk to. No one understands or I could even explain it because it’s far beyond insanity. That’s why I come here. I’m very glad she has you to talk to, but I don’t know about the enablement aspect. Carrie and others might be able to help you there.

    Please tell M to come here to vent, get support, advice and encouragement. But she has to do it herself. You can’t do it for her. I’ve only gone less than 60 days without contact, and my ex is already seeking revenge. She is slandering and stalking me, and I’m almost sure she broke into my house today. These people are extremely dangerous! Please tell M to stay safe and remain strong.

    My prayers are with you both.

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  9. Hi All,

    To give my side to Jerry’s story. This might run a little long and I apologize for that but I thought I would give a little bit of background on me and my N. If there is such a thing as N’s. I still find it hard to wrap my head around.

    About six years ago I met the man of my dreams. So thoughtful, affectionate, nice. We had everything in common. He was my perfect jigsaw puzzle piece. We spent every spare moment together, which was easy to do as we had all the same hobbies. Also all the same points of view on music, food, politics, religion, you name it. We were two peas in a pod. I would run to the door when he came home, hopping up and down with excitement. We would both greet each other with a, I love you, I thought about you all day. I really meant it.

    We rarely fought. When we did it was always my fault so I just learned how to avoid those situations. Example: One day it was raining and he called me asking if I could pick him up from work. (he’s a bicycle commuter) I asked him if there was any chance he was getting off early. He said no. I purposely worked late so I wouldn’t just be sitting there in his work parking lot for at least half an hour waiting for him. He gets off at 5:00. I got there at 4:59 and he was standing there pissed as hell. I said I was just in time why was he mad? He got off early. Why didn’t he tell me when I had asked if there was a chance of it? It’s too noisy in his workplace and he didn’t hear me. Why didn’t he just go home? Because he didn’t want me to come there and not know where he was. (I could have figured it out) Then instead of coming with me he hopped on his bike and rode home and wouldn’t talk to me for several hours after we got home. Lesson learned. Show up early. This fight would be avoided in the future.

    Although he was very controlling as in when I ate. In the beginning wanting to give me numerous kisses during dinner no matter how starving I was and just wanting to eat. To, oh let’s have a beer, or two…..or his friends were over frequently and it was rude to eat dinner in front of them. I asked repeatedly why we couldn’t just invite them. Sometimes they would even bring burgers with them and would eat in front of me while I was starving and heaven forbid I get a grouchy face about it. Or controlling when I went to bed by saying he loved me so much, just stay up with me. Or not being able to have friends or family visit because he had extreme social anxiety. Which I never saw this anxiety with his friends or when we went out.

    A little over two years ago I had the strongest gut feeling that there was someone else. I couldn’t believe it because we had such a dream life together. I asked him about it and he simply said, there’s no one else and walked away.

    But the feeling persisted and only got stronger. At this time items around the house started to disappear. He would see me frantically searching and then two days later whatever it was would show up exactly where I had looked for it. I told him multiple times that I felt like I was going crazy. Then personal items of mine started to disappear and stay gone. Things like my fake eyelashes and my diary. He said we had a burglar. A burglar that was coming in every week or so and not taking anything of value so we wouldn’t call the police.

    He always had excuses for every weird thing I found. What looks like a smear of lipstick, which I don’t wear, on the blanket. It was the dogs. Circles of blood on the sheets two months in a row, 28 day apart, when I was not on my period. He had cuts on his hands. Him smelling of perfume when he got home. The regional manager was there and she wears a lot of perfume, it must have rubbed off. I talked to our snoopy neighbor and he told me that women did come to my house after I left for work. The neighbor is lying to break us up so he can have me for myself. On and on like that. Nothing huge but weird things plus my gut was simply screaming at me. We had many fights about this because I started flat out accusing him. He would say I was effing crazy. I kept all of this to myself for about a year then started talking to my friends. They also said I was crazy. He’s too nice. He would never do such a thing.

    Last February was the first time I tried to break up with him. He went into hysterics. Called his dad that lives about 45 minutes away. His dad came and said, my son is not a liar, my son is not a liar. After sitting awkwardly for about three hours I asked if he would just go spend the night with his parents so I could have some alone time. He burst into sobbing, gathered his things and with a yell of f you f you stormed out the door.

    Then he came back the next day saying we can still save the weekend let’s just have a nice weekend together. And so it went. Periodically I would tell him I was miserable and wanted him to move out and he would say there is no reason for us to break up because the only reason would be because you think I am cheating and I am not. I would beg him to leave. It was super hard every time. I would do it in person or write him letters. He would read the letters and say, is this what you really want? And make me repeat yes, yes, louder and louder until I would burst into tears telling him I don’t know!

    I finally told my mom and she drove out from two states away to serve him with an eviction notice which I was too scared to do. That was the end of last September. Long story short he did move out. We kept seeing each other on a regular basis. It was so hard for me to let go and he was always pushing it. Then I would become determined and not communicate for a few days and the days between when I would see him would become two weeks at a time but we would still see each other. I was stuck in limbo of not being able to let it go.

    Then Jerry put up the fake ad. His initial response was that he was flattered and also recently single. I thought no big deal. I have told him to get another girlfriend and leave me alone. He actually told me about this email girl and said he had told her he was flattered but working things out with me. Then we started spending more time together again. He would ask me to marry him each time. But he was also emailing “the girl” at the same time. He sent an email telling about himself and it was the strangest thing. He completely stole my identity. All the things that are my favorites were now his to a stranger. Last Friday morning I saw him. We had sex. He asked me multiple times to let him come home and marry him. He was sick of limbo. He wanted to come home or at least have me make a firm decision on what we were doing. I told him I would give him an answer by the end of the day. Meanwhile “the girl” emailed him that afternoon and I knew he would be dying to answer her. I went to his house after work and told him, I love you but I don’t trust you and I want this to be over. He burst into tears. Telling me to leave because it hurt too much too look at me. On my way home he emailed the girl saying how over me he is and she seems cool, etc. I texted him asking if he was going to hook up with the email girl and he said no and that if he met someone he would let me know out of respect for him.

    So he was obviously busted. Finally. I had tried to catch him for two years. I felt such relief! I wasn’t crazy! I was chanting I’m not crazy all weekend. I felt like a huge weight had been lifted.

    Then he texted saying he knew I was the email girl. It spun me around. If he knew I was the email girl then he knew he was busted. What game was he playing? What does he really know? What does he know that I know? It was always a game like that with us.

    He continued to text me. I mostly ignored him. Wednesday he asked if I was certain about it being over and I told him yes. He sent a slew of awful messages saying how effed up I am and this is all my fault, etc. I asked him to forward me the emails from him and the girl and at first he refused saying that showed a lack of trust. Then later he said he couldn’t because he deleted them all.

    After work he was still texting me with either, I effing hate you to I love you let me come home. During all these texts he emailed the girl telling her that he deleted my number, it’s over with me.

    I know this is long but this is actually the short version. I know that I cannot see him again. I know he is a poisonous liar. But I still just can’t even believe it. I have had as much proof as I would ever likely get, thanks to Jerry, because he is super smart and I tried to catch him myself for two years to no avail.

    I miss him so much. It’s all so stupid. I don’t understand how I can be so addicted to someone that is using me. Other than it never seems to sink in that he doesn’t actually love me and our entire relationship was a fantasy. Jerry thinks I am playing with fire to not block his number. I had him blocked at one time and mostly I don’t answer but sometimes he sucks me in and I can’t seem to make myself sever that last tie.

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  10. Jerry, thank you for your kind words I am glad to be of help. To answer your question, it took me a long time BUT I stayed in contact with my ex for well over a year after we split and he popped back into my life a couple of times and always set me back. Once I went no contact it became much easier. And that is the thing with M,, she is wanting to ask questions (totally normal) which is totally unproductive and will not get her any closer to healed. You are right, one question leads to another and every one of them leads to another lie from the N or to the N blaming her for whatever hurt he caused her. She MUST accept that she is not going to get a straight answer from him so why ask?
    She is still expecting him to fix her, that if she gets answers she will be able to accept everything and not be hurting and able to move on. It doesn’t work that way with a narcissist. Even IF he did say it was all his fault and he is so sorry, she might feel better for a day or a few hours but after a while she would be right back where she is because “sorry” just doesn’t cut it when it comes to a narcissist.
    I remember something I saw a long time ago

    “Throw a plate on the floor
    Done
    Did it break?
    Yes
    Say you are sorry to the plate
    I am sorry
    Did it go back together?
    No
    Understand?”

    I used to think I needed to get answers from James, but then one day I thought to myself “what would make me feel better? what could he say that would make the pain stop?”
    If he apologized I wouldn’t believe him because he had apologized so many times before and never meant it.
    If he took the blame and really meant it (how I would know that I don’t know but just saying) then it would show he had changed and now he was with some other woman. I didn’t need to know that.
    I knew more than likely he would just blame me and I knew that certainly didn’t help me
    What did I have to say that I hadn’t said a hundred times before? nothing. and if I said it all again he would do what he always did, roll his eyes and say “This again??! You have to bring up the past again and again. THIS is why we aren’t together. You can never let things go.”
    Did I really want all the sordid details of his infidelity? how was that going to make me feel better? What I did know hurt bad enough, it was over, why dig deeper, so I could hurt MORE. rip open wounds that were starting to heal? NO!

    So I didn’t ask the questions, I didn’t say what I needed to say but had said so many times before.

    If she waits the feeling to contact him will pass, but if she makes contact she is continuing to subject herself to his abuse. That is the truth. I knew that if I contacted him to ask a question I had to admit to myself and everyone who knew me that I subjected myself to his abuse, I could no longer blame him for being an asshole. This time it would be squarely on my shoulders if he hurt me.

    Healing will come from within, the person who broke you can not put you back together. That doesn’t even make sense. Why would he give you that when his whole goal was to destroy you and he got what he wanted, now you are going to trust him to be honest and have your best interests at heart, he is all of a sudden going to be honest and caring? Unless his fairy God Mother twanged him in the middle of the night it just ain’t going to happen.

    M has to do an honest and realistic analysis of herself. Those things that she keeps hearing in her head that make her feel that she is not valuable, deserves abuse, isn’t good enough, that keep her looking for his approval; she needs to address them. I don’t know what they are, only she does, but that is why I put the personality tests up the other day, so people can read about themselves and see themselves honestly and know that they are not flawed, they are normal, they have a type of personality and traits that go with that personality. I was always called too sensitive my whole life so when James said I was too sensitive I felt I was wrong to feel the way I did. I am NOT flawed for being a sensitive person, accepting that has made my life so much better. I can admit I am sensitive, I can now look at what I am feeling and analyze it and come to a conclusion about whether I am being too sensitive or justified in my reaction to something.
    She needs to get to know herself intimately and either accept her traits or change them. I bet she doesn’t change many of them because there is nothing wrong with her that she can’t modify if she wants to.

    Let me give this example: I was anorexic all through my late teens and twenties. Finally in my 30’s I drop kicked my scale out the back door and joined a gym. It took me years to get comfortable about not knowing my weight everyday. I always felt fat, I looked in the mirror and saw fat, even when I was 115 lbs and skin and skin and bones. I knew my mind was playing tricks on me and I had to work hard at not believing what my mind was telling me. I would see a pic of myself and think “Gee I don’t look fat at all” (sometimes I didn’t even recognize myself) so I knew in my logical and rational mind that I my mind was lying to me. I had it drummed into my head that I was fat but when I look at pics I NEVER was. My mom was always dieting and putting me on a diet when I was growing up because she wanted company to diet with, not because I was fat.
    To this day I look in the mirror and think I could lose a few pounds but I don’t obsess about my weight any more and I never weigh myself. I am supposed to weigh myself daily because of my heart, (with heart failure a sudden gain in weight means your heart is failing) I can’t do it. I am so afraid that if I start weighing myself again I will revert back to being obsessed about my weight and I can’t take that chance. I know that if I weigh one day 140 and the next I am 142 I am going to be upset, so I just don’t go there. Why would I take that chance?
    Same thing as some times even now I will have a thought about James and maybe it was my fault. It doesn’t happen often and it doesn’t last because I have been away for almost 5 years and I have done a lot of self counseling and I know it is just my mind playing tricks on me. If I went to talk to him now I would be setting myself up to fall back into my old ways. Why would I want to do that? There are things I would like answers to, do I think he would be honest, no, would it make my life better in anyway to know the answers, no; so why would I go there?
    I hope that helps

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  11. Dear Carrie,
    I need your advice again!! Sorry, I can’t work out how to post on the site.
    I’ve got this creepy co worker who won’t leave me alone. She is female as am I. I have known her for years- we both work in the same field. I work abroad for a company. She was also freelancing for this company and got herself promoted above me and has since tried to make my life hell, undermining, harassing, staring, making crass comments and trying to humiliate me. She has my boss under her thumb so it is quite difficult to complain although my boss has apparently spoken to her about her behaviour towards me on one occasion. With all of this, she wants me to her friend, take her out with me when I am in the office and basically pander to her which I am refusing to do. She tries to find out about my private life and anyone I am friends with, she immediately befriends and encroaches on. She has recently got remarried and calmed down for a time but now seems as bad as ever/ I presume she has got bored with her new husband. She comes into the office periodically so I do have a respite but she sits opposite me and stares at me, follows me around the office and generally tries to harrass me all day. She seems pretty fixated with me and it creeps me out. She is of course charming with everyone else and they all think she is fine and that I should just deal with it. To me it feels like being stalked. I lost my cool in the end and spoke frankly to my boss about her. My boss has been monitoring the situation and it has improved but she is obviously undermining and gossiping behind my back and has stressed me out completely. What can I do about her other than move on which is obviously her intention here?
    Many thanks for your advice.

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  12. Bridget, you did fine commenting but if you go to the very bottom of the comments there is a Line that says, “Don’t be shy, leave your comment and a space below that to comment. There is also a place to tick if you want to be notified of any new comments or posts.
    For whatever reason she is fixated on you which is really creepy and has to make a person wonder what she is up to. Who knows why these people pick who they do but try to not let her get to you. They do thrive on drama and trauma and if she thinks she is getting to you it will only encourage her. She is probably jealous of you for whatever reason. Maybe she feels you are popular in the office and wants to be also and thinks you will pave the way for her. I don’t know.
    Most normal people will take the hint that someone doesn’t like them and leave them alone.

    Here is what I would do; I would keep my personal life very personal, with everyone at work, I wouldn’t discuss her or anyone else. Keep any talk about what you did on the weekend to very general chit chat and don’t share anything at work at all. And then I would be sickening sweet to her, I would go out of my way to ask her how her weekend was, turn it back on her, kill her with kindness so she has nothing to bitch about with you. I would not ask her to join you at lunch or after work or anything like that but I would not try to avoid her at work either or complain any more to the boss. Snide comments, let them wash off you like water off a duck, take it as jealousy and laugh. Knowing you are so much better than her.
    Right now from the sounds of it she is getting what she wants, you are getting flustered and uncomfortable, she is playing innocent and everyone is starting to think you are the one with the problem. The boss is going to get sick of monitoring things, this is an office and not a kindergarten and the one doing the complaining is going to get negative attention. I am not saying you don’t have reason to be uncomfortable I am just saying I can see how this is going to play out.

    it is up to you if you can’t handle it and move on but i don’t think that is necessary if you just don’t take the bait. Know what she is doing and refuse to play the game with her. She is a bully and she is getting payoff from it. If you don’t react there is no payoff.

    Years ago I worked with a woman who back stabbed me every chance she got but was super sweet to my face. It got back to me what she was saying and I never let on I knew then one day we ended up alone in the computer room (back in the day when the computer needed a whole room) I closed the door and backed her into a corner. I very calmly and quietly said, “I know what you are saying behind my back.” she started to deny it and I interrupted her. “Like I said, I know what you have been saying behind my back and I wanted you to know I know.” and i walked away and left her standing there with her mouth open. I then went into the boss’s office that this woman always went in and closed the door and talked to. (if you follow me) and I stood at the doorway, when the boss asked me what I wanted I turned around and said, “Can you tell me if I have any knives in my back?” and she got all flustered and said “no why?” and I said, “Because I would hope you would talk to me directly if there is a problem and not talk behind my back. I just wanted us to be on the same page.” and I walked out of her office and that was it. I went back to work and never treated anyone any differently. I don’t know if they stopped talking behind my back but I felt better just speaking my mind and letting them know I knew.

    it doesn’t have to be a big show down and doesn’t have to involved the whole office, in fact it is better if it doesn’t because if she tells people you said anything to her you can just deny it. Play the game like they do, if she tells lies about you, or even truths just deny deny deny. That is the thing, we think we are powerless because we are honest and they are evil but we don’t have to be so damned honest all the time and we don’t have to be an open book.
    hope that helps
    hugs

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  13. Hi M,

    Thanks for sharing. I have a hard time understanding narcs as well because it disgusts me so much. They don’t operate with ‘normal’ human behavior or emotion so it’s very difficult to grasp. However, what you described is exactly what most all here have gone through so you’re definitely not crazy or alone. The abuse is so terrible it’s hard to know up from down anymore. It always starts out as a wonderful fantasy, but once they have you hooked the what is called “crazy making” begins. A narc can’t stand intimacy because they lack emotion, and they hate you for what they can’t have so the switch flips so to speak. It’s very difficult to understand and you never fully will so I stopped trying. I know all I need to know and it helped me break free. You’re coming out of what is called the “FOG” so it is normal what you’re experiencing. Please look this term up so that you can find some relief to start thinking clearly again.

    The missing and mysteriously returning, and stolen stuff is called “ambient abuse” (gaslighting). It’s a very common behavior with narcs. They are pathological liars and want you to think you’re going crazy so they can control you more. This is what led me to do research, this website, and to helped me to finally put the pieces together. It was ugly and scarey but gave me my sense of sanity back. I was like you, I had a “gut feeling” something was up, but I had no tangible proof so gave her the benefit of doubt. I found out on my own accord through months of investigation that she was having sex with at least 3 other men. I was appalled to say the least. I will NEVER not trust my instincts again, and highly recommend no one else does either. Narcs are notorious serial cheaters. They “mirror” everything we want in the beginning so he’s “grooming” his next victim through the ad that was placed. They are identity thieves, because the lack one, so this is also very common. I’m so glad you had Jerry to help you catch him because you might still be suckered in his web of lies and abuse.

    I’m so happy to hear you’ve broken free. My best advice for you is to have NO contact. It is the ONLY way you will heal from this. Otherwise the crazy making, abuse, torment and hell will never end!! This isn’t just my own personal advice. It’s the advice of EVERY website I’ve researched and read including this one. I also read on numerous websites (including this one) the abuse will get far worse next time. I don’t want to scare you, but these people are extremely dangerous and incapable of change. It’s hard to grasp, but they lack guilt, remorse, empathy and conscience.

    It took me awhile but I missed her in the first stages like you do. This is also completely normal. I think you want the person you fell in love with back like I think most do in some degree. But that person was never there to begin with which is an extremely difficult and sad process. What helped me get through it was realizing that I was in love with just a dream, and sympathy that she is incurable from the lack of empathy or love. Please keep coming back here M every time you feel weak and the urge to contact him. ‘Vomit’ out all the poison and toxins and I promise it will get easier. People here like Carrie will understand what you’re going through so that you don’t think you’re crazy or alone. I’m very glad you have Jerry in your corner. He sounds like a very intelligent, caring and good man. Please be safe and know you will get through this day by day, sometimes hour by hour, week by week, and then month by month until you’re completely free! You deserve it M, so give this gift to yourself.

    (((Holy Hugs)))

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  14. M, thanks for your honesty. No worries about the length of your comment. Believe me you are normal, I felt exactly the same way as you, as most victims of an N. I noticed you did the same thing I and most victims do; in the beginning of your comment you expounded on how perfect the two of you were, two peas in a pod, as a way of showing why you were so in love and wanted to believe him. It was not just some guy, it was not some ordinary love, this was your soul mate, it was almost supernatural. I read about narcissists years before I left James, I read the traits and thought, yeah he could have the traits but these women don’t know what he and I have. “James and I have something people just don’t find everyday, in a life time!” I KNEW he loved me, we had such a connection. Almost all victims have the exact same thing to say.
    Everything you said rings true to me and I am sure 95% of everyone else here who reads it.
    I busted James so many times, and I would be hurt but relieved also to validated, this time he couldn’t talk his way out of it, this time I had him, I had proof, hard facts, pictures, or letters in his own writing, my God I would have him so busted and for a day or two I would feel better, finally I had the truth. But within a day or two he would have me doubting myself or I would find myself begging him to come back to me and I was sorry for something!? It was bizarre how he could twist things and turn things back on me, make the most bizarre circumstances sound feasible and logic sound crazy.
    I would kick him out and he would come home later and pretend like nothing happened, we would have a horrible fight and an hour later he would act like every thing was fine. Or I would think everything was great and come home to find out he had moved out. My God he told me he had been given 6b months to live and I was the only woman he could ever love and the sob was living with 2 other women alternately depending on who was angry with him that day. I thought it was impossible for him to tell two women that he loved them at the same time and I found out that he had told 6 women in 1 year that he loved them and they were the love of his life.
    Why do you still love him? Because contrary to what makes sense; that we will eventually collect enough info and get hurt enough that we will be able to walk away and not love him any more, it doesn’t work that way. What actually happens, is the more we invest the harder we hang on. By invest I mean, we catch him, we forgive him (giving of ourselves) and take him back, we compromise our instincts (giving up part of ourselves), we accept treatment we know we shouldn’t (we give away our self respect), we let them move in again (we put the past behind us and try again) We go against what friends and family think we should do (we give away our support system) We believe his lies even tell ourselves lies (we give away our trust in ourselves) We give up our power and hand it all to him, we say, “I am weak, I cannot fight this love, I need him to feel good about myself, I need him to make it all ok because I have given him every single thing that makes me who I am. I have invested simply everything I have, it has to work out, I have to have my happy ending or else I invested in nothing………not just nothing, but I invested everything I am in a facade, a dream, an asshole. That is very hard to accept. If we admit what they are we have to admit we got duped, we were sucked in in the biggest way possible, we have to admit that there are horrible, vile, evil people out there who really don’t give two shits about anyone but themselves. Everything I loved about him was a lie.
    As long as you have contact with him you keep the hope alive that somehow you are wrong, you cling to the hope that a miracle is going to happen and you will wake up and it will all be a bad dream. And as long as he has any tiny opening he will do whatever he can to instill doubt and confusion in your mind. He will bombard you with love, then guilt you for awhile, then baffle you with bull shit and smoke and mirrors until you just give up in total exhaustion and throw your hands up and say, “I can’t fight it, I give up.” The only way to move on, to start to heal is to have no contact, to cut the ties. I wish it wasn’t true but it is. I couldn’t do it for almost a year after we had split. He was living with another woman and I still could not cut him out completely, it was like my life line but I will tell you that the minute I did, I started to finally heal. Because every communication I had with him set me back. Once you no longer talk to him any healing you do is a step forward but the minute you talk to him again you go right back to square one again.

    I hadn’t talked to James for more than a year and he showed up out of the blue where I did business, one hour of talking to him and I was a basket case again.

    It is totally up to you, I know it is hard, I could handle me not contacting him the problem was I wanted him to have access to contact me if he wanted. That is the true of it. I wanted to leave that door open in case he changed. But he never will and it keeps you living on hope and telling yourself lies. It is going to hurt, there is no two ways around it. But the healing will come a lot faster when you cut him out of your life.

    As for taking on your personality, lol I had to laugh when I read that because that is exactly what James did to me also. It was like he stole my whole life and left me a shell of a person. He talked like I would talk, his morals were my morals, his values were mine, he talked like he was shocked I would ever think he would break the law or lie. Wjo did he think he was talking to? I knew him better than anyone. He told everyone and his new woman that I did to him what he had done to me!! They went on the vacation I always wanted to take, everything I had wanted him to do for me he did with her. They set things up to be the most painful for the victim as it can be. I realized after James and I split that his ex hated that he was a trucker, he screwed around the whole time they were together so with me he quit trucking and pretended to give me everything she had wanted, they had been together 10 years and once we made it to the 10 year mark he went back to trucking. He was so happy that she had really hated me because we had lasted longer than they had. How sick is that? he would stay with me just to make her feel it was all her fault he screwed around.
    My ex went for dinner with me one night I caught him with another woman the next day and that night he moved in with another woman. Then he got engaged to that woman and showed up a week later professing his undying love for me. They are assholes, M.
    Good luck and please do not hesitate to comment as long as you like we are here if you need an ear or support. or a shot of reality!
    Hugs

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  15. M, I agree with you. I am still processing the fact there are people who are not serial killers, but are just as heartless. I never would have imagined there existed such people until this happened to me. But as I look back at our relationship, and as Carrie put it in one of her posts, see the whole thing through a different set of eyes, there is no denying they exist. It is heart-wrenching and life-shattering. I look at everyone suspiciously now and I hate it! Stay strong!

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  16. Carrie and Healing- It helps more than I can describe to hear you both saying the same things I’m offering to M in my own support of her. I know how old it gets sounding like a stuck record from one person but when those of you who have been through the trenches with a narc sound off in unison like this, it helps M, offers her the hands on wisdom of those who have been in her shoes. Though I wish she had found this place sooner, I’m also familiar with the concept, it takes what it takes to reach a point where help is sought then found. M has progressed from a frozen in place, fearful shell of a woman to where she is now. She hates change and just wants to live a simple life with people who care about and love her in her circle. It isn’t like she’s an impossible dreamer or anything. She’s simply a genuinely good woman with a tender heart, a good mind with a good dose of adorability. At least that’s my obviously biased opinion of her. She’s one of the best women I’ve ever met or had a chance to know as I do now.

    I know my own involvement with her has been running a parallel course to her moods and circumstance of her relationship with this cretin. As much as it hurt to walk away the first time, I look at it now as a chance to get my feelings for her placed where they weren’t a source of guilt for her and to regain some balance for myself. That was a biggy in our previous dynamic. Shortly after being in touch this ‘second time around’, she gave me the link to this place. A whole universe of information and anecdotal affirmation that she wasn’t crazy, just caught up in a crazy situation opened up to me. I knew all along she wasn’t crazy but she couldn’t seem to shake the idea on her own. And I couldn’t know the full extent of her circumstance back then either. It was just, ahem, too crazy.

    She hates that word after being subjected to his crazy inducing abuse and hearing that same word used to describe her from his asshole buddy who was often in her home but was someone she wouldn’t ordinarily give the time of day to. Her narc had found his sugar momma and had no regard for her or her feelings but he sure liked having a home to live in where he could manage every little detail of her life and sneak women into her bed after she went to work. Reading all the accounts of others and recognizing all the similarities to her own situation has been huge in helping her accept she’s not crazy. My ad helped confirm it and raise enough hard evidence to stop the spin long enough to let her jump off his merry-go-round. Her most recent challenge has been to sever all contact. She blocked him from her phone. But I’m afraid she’ll eventually have to bite the bullet and change her number.

    I actually researched if emotional and psychological abuse was a criminal activity and found nothing to help the victim. The only thing remotely close are laws against harassment. She still hasn’t done it at my urging but if a person states in document form (email, text), “Leave me alone and never contact me again”, any later contact by the narc falls under the legal definition of harassment. This can be used to receive a restraining order should one ever become necessary. Where we are, the first offense is a misdemeanor, the second time on, a felony. Her narc had a run in with the law several years ago so this may be yet another tool she could use. But I would be holding out for a pipe dream to think she’ll take this step with her narc. Nonetheless, I was appalled that our legal system blatantly ignores this very real, very destructive abuse. I realize proving the abuse in court would be impossible so maybe that’s why this falls in the cracks. But the bottom line is it’s wrong. Very wrong that someone can decimate another person’s life with legal impunity. My own way of dealing with him would find me going to prison and I’m not going there. That doesn’t seem a good alternative to the life I have now. But knowing this tidbit of legalese may help someone else do their own research into local law and put yet another barrier between them and their narc.

    We’re in for a long haul in her healing. I know and accept this. This place gives me hope. Yesterday gives me hope in how she’s approaching this now. We talked (actually had a spat) last night which was resolved by both of us about how much she has felt herself changing. She even brought me ice cream as a peace offering along with a hug when we reached the end of it. That’s the kind of woman she is and to think her life was being tortured by that animal (sorry animals) makes me livid. The boundaries between M and me are healthy and helpful while she negotiates her own path. But the fact is, she is worth the energy, time, and emotional investment I’m offering her. This place is among the top reasons she is stepping forward into recovery rather than sinking deeper into the nightmare. Again, thank you for being here for us.

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  17. Jerry, you are more than welcome. I am truly happy to be able to help you guys. I have worked with some women I thought would never be able to let go, that they were doomed to be the N’s punching bag forever but they end up being the strongest women when they finally do let go and they have the most positive revelation and inner peace when they do.
    Hugs to you both

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  18. Thanks for getting back to me about my question, Carrie. M and I have been back and forth about her putting blocks on his phone number and email address so she doesn’t have to hear more from him. She’s reached the point where she has him blocked on both now. It’s still a day by day proposition to keep him blocked but she’s hanging in there and white knuckling through her tough times and texting me about it as it happens. We’re both trying to get an arsenal of techniques together for her to resort to in her tough moments. Everything from breathing exercises and meditation to the D letters (our fictional character) to reading through your blog are all now things she has at her disposal. We spend time together and I’m trying to make it a safe haven escape from her reality when she visits me. Our latest topic of the day is her propensity to feel guilt regardless whether it’s deserved or not which 99 times out of 100 is totally undeserved.

    She has a knee jerk response to whatever she feels she isn’t doing right which immerses her in guilt. Personally, I think it’s one of those things he planted in her head a long, long time ago to gain power and control over her. I’m pointing out the reasons she has nothing to feel guilty about but we all know in matters of the heart, rational thought rarely makes much difference. Nonetheless, when she says she feels guilty, I ask her to look at exactly why she feels compelled to indulge in it. She’s looking at it which is all I can ask of her. But it’s deeply seeded in her psyche and one I suspect we’ll contend with for quite awhile. Anyway, she probably wouldn’t admit it herself but I think she’s making progress. We have an agreement that she’ll tell me if she wants to remove the blocks so I’m hoping she’ll live up to our agreement. At least if she tells me, I have a moment in which I can try to talk her through the moment. But if she can hang on a little longer, he may stop his efforts at contacting her since she isn’t responding to any of what he’s sending to her. It’s literally a classic case of what she doesn’t know can’t hurt her.

    She’s spending time at her home doing yard work and getting caught up on work she neglected during the throes of her depression. She’s eating and said this morning that she slept through the night last night but had a dream of being kidnapped and tortured. I’m guessing her body and mind are expelling some of the toxins from her N which are showing up as these dreams. There’s just so much to deal with on so many psychological and emotional fronts but she’s managing and like I said, making headway. I’m really, really proud of her!

    Again, thanks for this place. Each of us reach out to serve our individual needs and the voice of the whole is helping each of us continue to put one foot in front of the other in this long road of healing. Keep up the good work.

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  19. Carrie, I needed to see everything you wrote to M. Thank you. Not only can I not seem to stop questioning everything, but I spend most waking hours thinking of clever and often mean things I should’ve said or would like to say in self-defense. It makes me feel like I’m getting some power back I guess, but it’s so unproductive!!

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  20. Hi Carrie
    I loved your comment. It was inspiring. I particularly loved the hard questions to yourself and your answers to them. And the plate analogy simple and easy to cognitively process because as you know after leaving an abusive narc your capacity to understand is so limited due to the gaslighting stonewalling secretiveness ect all by the person you love and wanted to make happy. I also could not get rid of my exnarc out of my house. One example went like this. After spending the whole night out with a male and female friend and calling me at 3am to pick him up and take him and his female friend home I refused and said get a taxi (first I said yes I would come get him then he added I had to take her home who lived about 30mis away then I said no. I must have been starting to set boundaries up) then he comes home at about 9 am ( she got someone to drive him home with her in the car) he comes inside and say “I want to breakup” I said “fine I love you and want you to be happy” so what does he do He Goes TO BED and sleeps!!!! This was just one example of many over the 3 years of trying to get him out. The only way I got him out was via an unplanned intervention with his friends. They were over one night and he was doing his lying manipulation stuff and I called him on it. It was about the fact that he had no money ever. Anyway to prove himself he stupidly got an unopened payslip and gave it to his friend to open and after he gave it to his friend he said I shouldn’t be giving you that-that’s the thing about Narcs they are so in need to be right it becomes an impulsive behaviour- anyway his friend opened the payslip and boom he had earned 9000 yes nine thousand in two weeks. I flipped went historical started crying and said I don’t want to be with you I can’t do this anymore. And with that his friend told him to pack his bag his taking him home. And that was that. That was my painful closure. This was 14 months ago and he is still in my life despite me going full metal no contact I even changed my phone number. How is he still in my life -through my 25 year old son. Even yesterday my son comes over and starts urging with me about him because my daughter was bad mouthing the exnarc awhile ago and he starts yelling and throwing his mobile phone. And storms off -this is what my son said to me about his anger outburst- Mum you have to understand that I am not going to sit here and listen to someone bad month my friend (the ex narc) I could not believe what I was hearing. I said ” your friend is a guy who used me lied to me treated me like shit abused me. I will talk about anyone I want and how they treated me. Son said “well it’s your fault were friends because you introduced me to him.” With that I went outside to breath and said “you are responsible for your own choices you are not the victim here”. Then I used all my knowledge I had gained over the 14 months of recovering from a Narc relationship and that was They will turn your friends and family against you if you leave them. So I just took it for what it was just another form of manipulation by the exnarc playing out in real life. What inspired me the most about your life story is your strength and how you overcome many obstacles in your life. It resonated with me as I was sexually abused by my dad emotionally psychologically and physically abused by my mum and step dad for years (who curiously I have no contact with them after I broke up with the exnarc as I saw their abusive behaviour towards me much clearer after that and I just could not psychologically or physically allow anyone to abuse me anymore) Your story gives me hope because you appear to have reached a stage in your recovery thats about empowering your self. After I ended the relationship (well 5 mths later because I spent every weekend in bed) I went to therapy, mediation, psychics anywhere I thought could help me heal from my life time of trauma. And I still feel broken. I still think I am never going to be over the pain. But your words gave me hope that someday even 5 years from now I will be in a more emotionally stable space. I wont be my old self but thank goodness for that I never want to be that vulnerable person again but I will be content and wiser.

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  21. Tryan, I am so glad you are getting some benefit from my writings. That in itself has been very healing; the fact that by sharing my experiences I am helping people. It turns the worst experience of my life into one of the most positive.
    It has taken me almost 5 years to get here and I have a ways to go yet. But that is the whole thing, we never stop growing and learning about ourselves, improving. Or that is the way it should be.
    You sound like you have your head on right and on the right path. it gets easier and better as time goes on. I am sorry your ex has gotten to your son, I am sure he is dong everything he can to win your son over right now just to get to you. His mask will drop with your son also with time,
    Welcome to the site.
    Hugs

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