Support Forum


To all new visitors! Welcome!!
You have found a great group of supportive people who have all been through what you are going through and understand completely the devastation you are feeling.
You are NOT crazy and you are not to blame, you are in a relationship or just left a relationship with a narcissist/psychopath. You are not alone. Come as often as you like to vent, ask questions, cry, and get support and encouragement.
All I ask is that everyone is respectful of each other’s opinions and understands that most everyone here are at a heightened emotional state. While with the narcissist the victim lived with constant trauma, drama and were told constantly that they were wrong to feel what they were feeling and that they were flawed in some way; it makes sense they are very sensitive to criticism. 
Opinions are just that, if someone has a different opinion than you it doesn’t mean someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong. Everyone is entitled to voice an opinion.
I may have an opinion you don’t agree with and I am more than willing to back up whatever I say, so feel free to question me and I will explain why I feel the way I do. Not to convince you I am right but to explain why I feel the way I do and maybe I will give you some information you didn’t know before. Or maybe you will enlighten me. An exchange of ideas is healthy and how we learn. 
Just remember, narcissists are basically all the same but the victims are as different as people can be, we all have our own history and frame of reference. Please respect that!

5,803 thoughts on “Support Forum

  1. I’m needing a vent session so take this with the proper amount of salt if you will. I’m feeling a little raw in the moment because the situation I’ve been involved with has suddenly changed pretty radically. The bottom line is she feels a need as she says, to be alone alone. In other words, friendship is out, contact is out, any explanation of what is going on in her head is out as well. I know I’ve done nothing wrong and this is likely another aspect of the trajectory of her healing but from my side of this it basically sucks.

    So I’m asking that this place remain supportive and helpful to M because I can no longer be in that role for her. I’m bowing out of further comment here as well to keep from tainting this place in her thinking. She needs the support and encouragement, the empathy and compassion to deal with her own moments when she reaches out to comment on here. With me involved, she wouldn’t feel free to do so. Anyway, I appreciate the fact she has this place to come to whether she’s just reading or is actively engaged in exchanging thoughts and ideas with the rest of the forum. I won’t go into details about what happened but I’m trying to manage my own feelings of how sudden it happened and how little explanation I was offered in exchange for me disappearing from her life again. I do love this woman deeply and it really sucks to not be able to help her aside from abiding by her wish for me to not contact her. How twisted it feels to offer as my most sincere expression of love to be that of walking away when she needs me to walk away. Be well, M…


    • Jerry,

      I’m very sorry things didn’t work out as we hoped. I still think you’re a very kind man, with a very good heart. Hopefully M will eventually tire and end the vicious cycle. I wish the very best for both of you.

      Peace and Prayers


      • I’m sorry too, Jerry. It sounds like you’re doing the loving thing, though. This can only mean good things to come for you.


        • Healing, Jen, and Celine. Thank you all for your support. I’m not giving up on M. Just giving her what she needs in the here and now. I hope this doesn’t make me sound creepy or anything. I’ve just been too long looking for what I found with her. I’m not easily defeated by set backs. My set back is her need of the moment so I feel my only choice is to be here and available when she gets through enough of her recovery and healing to want me in her life again. Our journey together isn’t over… Again, thank you all. I won’t be posting anymore after this. Be well all.


  2. Hello all .i am having problems reading current posts. Can someone tell me where to go for updated posts..also is there an address to donate to Carrie..


    • Hi Cj,

      You can donate through paypal at the top right of the page. Carrie is having great personal difficult so any contribution to keep the site going would be sincerely appreciated. If you click the box at the bottom of the page where you’re posting, “Notify me of new comments via email” you’ll receive all new comments. They can be difficult to find sometimes, because they are replies to older posts. Hope this helps!

      Love and Light


  3. Carrie has a donate with paypal button on the main page. I can never find it when I use my phone but it’s right there if you log into a PC.
    I don’t know how to view current posts either. I just clicked to receive an email when one is posted and read them from there.
    I hope this helps!


  4. thanks M and Healing for your response … I will try the pay pal.
    Hope all is well with you two.. Keep praying and God will do his part.


  5. Celine…stay away from that guy..your instincts were correct…they will never acknowledge that we ment anything to them if they do they are only telling us what we want to hear to get their fix..keep praying and give this to God..he already has the will be happy again..
    Carrie, I request the link to the new site, did you get my
    Thank and have a blessed day .


    • Thank you, Jean! I feel so overwhelmed because I’m having problems in every area except family and friends (which are huge blessings). I’m having health, financial, work, home stresses and I feel so overwhelmed. I suddenly feel fat from God. I’ve been clinging to Him, and suddenly I’m kind of blaming Him for things. Not cool on my part!


  6. Hi,

    I am Italian and moved to France to try to detach from all I have endured with my ex partner. I have lived so many horrible things that I don’t even know how to start telling what has happened. My life has become a living hell, and when I try to explain and get support from friends (the few that have stayed because of all slander she told around on shared friends and family members) have a hard time to understand, even if I know they do try, in the best case they just don’t get why I feel so devastated or do not feel relief if she “really” is so evil and life with her so painful. that’s another violence to me, some think I am the disordered one, or over reacting, oversensitive or even a liar. I sometimes think of put end to my life, I tried, I thought moving to another place, another country, no shared memories and new faces will help, but all the hell has come with me. I don’t know what else to do, I have entered therapy, but professionals I have met did not seem to take into account my story and my feeling, it’s just like I don’t accept an ended relationship, and of course I am also mourning the loss but that’not all.. I feel so misunderstood, have nightmares all nights, no more money because of her, no more furniture (they’re still in the ex shared apt) it’s like I can still hear her screaming, yelling and ouburst of rage every moment, I lived with her for six years, how can I move on?

    all the distortions, lies, defamation, out of the blue mood swings, name calling, disdain, displaying what was apparently love and that turning into devaluation and disrespect and hatred, scary rage I witnessed just won’t disapper all of a sudden from my head and my soul. I often cry, sometimes I try to get out of my little house and meet some friends, trying to not stay alone and think of anything else but it is not getting better. I feel so damaged I can’t even recognize myself. I was a self confident woman, have had other relationhips in my life, that I somatimes ended sometimes the break up was not my decision but even when it felt painful I accepted and moved on with my life, being in peace with myself. I had many friends, have no hard times to make new friends, keeping the old ones, open to new experiences with an open mind and heart. Now I feel left with nothing, I can’t smile, can’t enjoy life, have to drink to get some rest at night and the morning after everithing just starts and goes in the same way.She looks happy and play the nice role, after being a victim she just play the one who has been so strong to get over “hard times” and move on with her life, just like nothing ever happened, making me appear like the headsman I am not. This is really crazy making, how can one stand this? There is justice on earth? I wish I believe in God but unluckly I don’t. I found this forum and hope to find answers and support I really need. I didn’t deserve this, I am a generous, goodhearted person, I tried so hard to help but was treated like crap. I could write for months and maybe never get to an end.. She has also threatened me to make false allegations against me, as if I was the violent and crazy one and that is so horrible I can’t even believe she could this. The worst is that she has convinced herself and many of the people we once knew. How could someone possibly believe those lies? Can someone help me, please? I feel so ashamed.

    Thank you,


    • Rosi, welcome, you have nothing to be ashamed of and you are not alone or crazy. Please read more and educate yourself on these soul vampires. They are born without a conscience so have no guilt or remorse. it is all about them and what they want at the time. They will say and do anything to get what they want.
      There are a ton of posts here explaining it all and giving tips and pointers on how to heal.
      Please comment on any of the posts if you have questions. we have all been there and we can all relate to what you are going through. Life is worth living. So many victims end up with nothing when they leave but you can recoup and be happy again.
      She doesn;t believe her lies, she knows exactly what she is doing. She is evil and you must go no contact and cut any contact with people who are friends of hers. I know it doesn’t seem fair that she gets the friends also but if they believe her they are no friends of yours.
      The only way to heal from these people is to walk away and never look back


  7. Hello,
    I spent the last 3 years dating what I thought was just a terrible person. It wasn’t untim recently that I decided it is time for me to figure out what is wrong with me and why I can’t make this relationship work. Then I got my answer… It has nothing to do with me instead I was dating a narcissist. For the last three years I have been broken up with at least 73 times. He went back and forth with me and his ex girlfriend for the longest time. Not only did this cause trust issues and pain, it was something he used against me that I could not let go Of his past and that I am ruining the relationship with my insecurities and beinf obsessed with his ex. I have been called a crazy person, and every other name in the book. I have been pushed, grabbed, bit, choked and had my hair pulled. I have been brain washed to think that the abuse did not happen or that the events happened differently and that I am making myself a victim and got the events wrong. Even with a huge bite mark on my cheek he denied that he bit me. Recently I have been broken up with by the narc because i have not changed and we are not meant to be because we cannot get along and it’s constant stress and too much to handle the relationship. I pay for everything and try and make sure that he is less stressed and has guy nights and is sexually satisfied. He tells me that sex is how he can express to me that he loves me. And if I don’t have sex with him I am ruining his sex life. I am a 23 year old whose life has been destroyed, who has anxiety and nightmares and is so insecure about herself. My friends always tell me that they would die for my looks and body and to be as kind and smart as I am. Yet I see myself as a girl who can’t keep a boyfriend and has to compete with other girls. Although I know that my ex is a narcissist I can’t help but wonder what if he doesn’t come back because it’s his choice and not because he’s a narcissist. I realize how wrong it is of me to think that or even hope he will come back because it will just be a cycle all over again… But I can’t find it in me to be okay and move on with these thoughts.. I have been destroyed, and while I am reading and researching my narc is our living life and luring his ex back into his life. He told me he doesn’t want me to disappear that he wants me in hisblife and to be friends and that I Can come over wherever I want… And when I did to go get all of my stuff he tried to have sex with me telling me he can’t help himself that he’s attraxted to me… I denied him and he said he doesn’t understand why I won’t just have sex with him it’s not like we haven’t been having sex for the last 3 years. He also said that he made his choice that we are done so it’s just plain old having sex no emotions involved. I pray to God to just get past this and find myself, live my life without this abuse. I try to find strength daily to not check up on him not text him, and blogs like these help by knowing i am not the only one.


    • Jen,

      My name is Jen as well. I was in a relationship with a narcissist/sociopath for 5 years. I am currently 8 weeks out with no contact. You are so young to be experiencing such pain and it breaks my heart for you. But another way to look at this is that you can stop the cycle right now and live a long life full of happiness, acceptance, and love for yourself. Yes, you were most definitely dating a narcissist, but there is also something inside of you that needs to be fixed. We should never love anyone else more than we love ourselves. That’s not to say we should be like them, but allowing someone to treat us badly and believing it is somehow love means we have work to do on ourselves. Many of us have come to that conclusion. I have started seeing a therapist as well as surrounding myself with people who understand and care about me. I have taken every possible measure to ensure he will not be able to contact me without jumping through quite a few hoops and I doubt he will do that. It’s not an easy journey, but I hang onto the hope it will get easier as time goes on. Everything I have read says it is worth it. You need to do something for you, something that is all your own. Remove all reminders of him, maybe go stay with a friend, or get an apartment with a girlfriend. You are too special to be treated the way this person treated you and whatever keeps you from believing that is what you need to work on. Big hugs, Jen. When I first found this forum, I needed to post multiple times a day and I was able to connect with another special person on here who has helped me immensely through encouraging me on this journey. I am happy to be here for you whenever you need to vent or need answers or encouragement.


    • Hi Jen,
      I’m glad you found this site. I’m fairly new here myself and it helps a lot to have support from other people who know exactly what you’re talking about. I’m still in a world of hurt, myself, but if I can offer any advice, it’s to be patient with yourself, surround yourself with people who always build you up, and keep learning about yourself and how your past has affected you (like the other Jen said). I agree that if we hadn’t been wounded early on, we wouldn’t accept the behavior we get from these goofballs. I’m so sorry you’ve had to suffer so. I find comfort in the fact that nothing is permanent, so even the bad stuff has to change. I think in the future, we’ll look back and thank God that we were spared from more time with these broken people. I’m sad for their brokenness, but like broken glass, they cut those around them. We have to get and stay out of dodge. Mine works in my apartment building, so I have to see him almost every day, and he has told me many times how great his life is with my replacement and her kid, who now calls him “daddy.” We were engaged. I was so excited to finally be getting married because I’m in my forties. He’s in his thirties.. Anyway, I was looking at dresses and he was looking for more girls. It all came crumbling down after almost 4 years. He and that woman found an apartment together and he keeps telling me that I’d just love their apartment and big yard. I know he’s trying to get a reaction, so I won’t give him one, but I’ve cried lots of private tears on my apartment. Sadly, I can’t afford to move. He told me recently he’s going to marry that girl, and that her kid looks exactly like him, even though he isn’t his, etc. Now, he hasn’t been here all week. I’m wondering if they’re on an exotic honeymoon while I’m feeling really alone. Very painful. I just tell myself all day long that I’m actually better off feeling like I do now, than when i felt wonderful with him because that wasn’t real.. I just have the hardest time getting that into my brain.
      Well, as the other Jen said, you’re young and you now are free to have a life with NO abuse in it. We will all heal from this and be stronger because of it. Sending love and prayers your way.


    • Jen, welcome and the other Jen great welcome to Jen thank you. Now that was confusing we will have to use Jen 1 and Jen 2 or something.
      Anyway Jen 2 please listen to Jen, she is right. In order to heal and be happy again you have to go no contact. He will keep toying with you and coming and going playing pull you close to push you away eating away at your self esteem and confidence until you don’t even know who you are any more.
      He will not leave you alone, he is sick, he can’t be fixed and you can’t make sense of the things he does the only thing you can do is to take care of yourself and that means NO CONTACT none!! We are here for you to be a support for you to stay strong. instead of contacting him come in here and read and comment.
      We care


  8. Hi everyone! Welcome new people!
    I wrote some lengthy posts a few days ago, in response to Jen, Carrie and healing’s posts and when I hit “post,” I got a message saying to please enter a correct email address. I went back and tried to check for a typo and lost everything I posted. I’ve had a crazy few days, but I’m back! I’m having trouble locating the original posts, and last I checked, I wasn’t receiving notifications. Any suggestions?
    I’m upset with myself because I’m suffering a lot and I feel like I’m causing my own grief by obsessing. Last week, I was disgusted by my ex and felt like I was getting past it; then, he didn’t come to work in my building all week, which should be cause for rejoicing in peace, but instead, I’m worried he’s off marrying my replacement, and I’m going to have to see his ring and deal with his gloating when he comes back. I feel distraught. I know he’s toxic, so why do I care? We had hundreds of days together where he was taking care of me because of an illness I suffer from. I’ve been suffering from that lately quite a bit and I feel so alone. I long for the days when I felt taken care of, even though now I know it was false. After the breakup, he actually said, “I guess I just got tired of all the sickness and emotion.” I couldn’t believe this was my beloved friend. How wrong could I be? I have a great family, but everybody is spread out across the country. We do talk a lot. My therapist clearly isn’t versed in the grief one has from aftermath of these types of relationships. I like her, and she is helping me identify patterns in my life and my reasons for being in an unhealthy relationship. I just feel so lost. Sometimes I feel abandoned by God. All I ever wanted was to plant roots and have a partner in life and perhaps a family. It has become rocket science. I feel like a failure because I evaluate myself based on my relationships with others. I feel so replaceable and like I don’t have what it takes to keep someone’s interest over time. I might have to have a major surgery, I lost one job due to layoff and now might lose my other one for the same reason. This would force me to move, which I guess could be a blessing, but my job is the one thing that brings me joy. I was injured last year and couldn’t work for 4 months. Most of my friends have kids that are about to start college. I feel like I’ve missed the bus and there might not be another one. I just kind of feel like an “extra” in a movie where everyone around me has an actual part. I don’t know what to do.
    Sorry I’m so negative. I’ve been spiraling for a few days.
    I’d like to go back and respond again to you, Jen, Carrie and Healing. Is there a shortcut to finding older posts? Sorry to leave you hanging. It took me over an hour to write what I did the other night, then *poof*


    • Celine,
      Take a deep breath and relax. You don’t need to respond because you feel you need to, only if you want to. We can begin from here. I’m happy to see you back and I’m sorry you have had a rough few days. <3


      • Hi Jen! You’re a doll. Thank you. I had responded to a lot of what you said in your last post and was bummed that my response vanished somehow. I only use my cell to post because I’m paranoid about spyware on my laptop. My ex has access to keys to my place. I’ve had an alarm system installed and I know he hasn’t been in here for at least 10 months. Last Mother’s Day, when I came home, my locks were screwy. A maintenance guy said there had been a gas leak and that the fire department had to check every apartment. Some neighbors knew nothing about it. Others said the leak was on the 9th floor and that the fire dept went straight to it. Yet another one said the firemen fixed the problem from the outside of the building. I felt like my ex had the chance to come in here and he took it. I immediately got the alarm system and it has never gone off. I’m still paranoid about my laptop and don’t know how to check for spyware. It’s a Mac..
        One day, he said he was remodeling his place, and he goes, “Soon, I’ll be able to dance around in there like you do in your apartment.” I started a workout program after the breakup. I suppose he could hear the music from the DVDs, but how would he know I was dancing around? Very creepy.
        Anyway, I’m wondering if this site is easier to navigate on a laptop? I can’t seem to locate older posts on my cell without scrolling for days.


  9. Thank you so much for everything and for reading my post! I blocked him and am trying to do things for myself to keep me happy. I find it hard to control my thoughts and wonder if he’s back with his ex again or what girl is replacing me. I also obsess with checking up on him via social media. I’m putting a stop to it all, and one way I find that distracts me from the bad thoughts and checking up is these blogs and reading self help books. We’ve broken up so many times that I feel like he will be back even if he can’t get a hold of me he will figure something out. Last time it was a present on my car. At the same time I’m wondering if this really is the last time he is coming back which I should rejoice about. With that situation in my mind I wonder if in fact it is the last time what changed, why not come back again. I realize I need to stop wondering so much and stop asking all these questions. I know I can get past this, and I am ready to move on which is more then what I could say for the other 37 times I have been in this position with him. Do narcs ever change? Do they wake up one day and tell themselves wow I destroyed a person that really loved me. Or do they never even think about it. It is so sad that I am thinking about these things instead of thinking about all of the times he has abused me and hurt me. Narcissism may be an illness, but what they do to us is like creating an illness because we have no control of our longings and thoughts. It’s terrifying

    Once again I appreciate you! You will definitely be hearing more or my rants :) as my moods fluctuate daily. I find it freeing to be able to just let every thought out instead of holding it in.


    • Jen,

      This is a really good article that I think you will find helpful.

      At first, I spent quite a bit of time researching narcissists. I needed to understand on the deepest level possible, who he was and the games he played. When I did that, there was no denying what I had been dealing with for the 5 years I was with him. In the past 8 weeks, I have definitely dealt with depression and anger and lots and lots of anxiety. I have found the best way for me to “deal” is to do special things for myself. Healing brought up massage, but also my favorite foods at the rare moments I actually felt like I could eat, outings with my friends, remodeling my house, a good book in a hot bubble bath with some wine. I have avoided heavy drinking and medication, though, because although it will stop the pain in that moment, it will still be waiting for you when they wear off. I have heard it described as their hold on us being similar to a drug and we are actually experiencing withdrawal symptoms. So the thoughts you keep having, we have all been there. In time, they will slowly fade. It is going to take time, though, and it won’t happen as quickly as you want it to. One article I read talked about the importance of being anger and I did use my anger for the first few weeks to hold strong and avoid contact. However, for me, realizing he is sick and will never, could never change was the thing I needed to stay strong. He won’t wake up one day and feel badly for how much he hurt you, which is hurtful all over again. You will also experience feeling angry with yourself, but I didn’t dwell here long because what you need right now is to love and forgive yourself.

      Big hugs!


  10. You are not alone, you have me and everyone else here for support. The fact that he is trying to rub it in your face screams unhappy. “This too shall pass”!! Go out, meet people you yourself are still young! You will find happiness I believe that because you are a great woman. Stay strong ❤️


  11. You may be my twin or long lost sister! I’ve took up yoga and zumba to keep myself busy way because I could feel him discard me slowly. Like you I am angry and I’m using that anger to my benefit. I’ve been through the heavy drinking so I’m making sure that this time it is all me with good coping skills getting past this the right way. I know it is an illness and a part of me feels bad for him… A part of me feels bad that he will never love never wake up and feel blessed to have great people in his life. Today I learned that after everything there is a light at the end of the tunnel because I found out that there are people out in the world (like yourself) that are wonderful and have such a big heart that they are willing to take the time to reply to someone who is looking for guidance in their tough time. Reading your response brought me to tears, maybe because someone actually cares and I feel that there is hope after all. I hope that you yourself can feel the warm fuzzy feelings I am sending you :)!!! I may not know you, but you have already made an impact in someone’s life. I know God will repay you in amazing ways ❤️

    As I’m writing this the narc has already found a way to initiate contact and all I can focus on is your words! I hope he can find his power supply elsewhere because Team Jen is not going to give in this time :). I will take many lonely, sad, ice cream and wine days/nights over being abused and manipulated. I know that today may be a good day and tomorrow may be the complete opposite… It gives me comfort knowing I can turn to someone that understands


  12. Hi Jerry,

    It’s very devastating after ending the relationship with a narc. If you both are on this website, there’s more than a very good chance he is a narc. Please watch Sam Vaknin’s videos on youtube to learn more. Please continue to research and maybe together. You’ll find all the stories very much the same. After doing the research was the point where I put the pieces together and started to break free. I then realized I missed the idea of who she was, not who she really is. This is what helped me detach even further. Hopefully understanding this will help M as well. After further research i discovered there are not curable, and this is when I knew it was truly over.

    She’s most likely been gaslighted and brainwashed so I believe she is still extremely confused and trying to make sense of it all. I’m sure she has tons of questions, but there is no way she will get any answers from him, and the ones she gets with definitely be more lies. They are pathological liars. There is no making sense of it which is partly what’s maddening. I’m sure she feels the whole world has been turned upside down at this point.

    Please let her know that she is truly in danger. They are socio/pychopaths without guilt, remorse or empathy or conscience. They are capable of anything and derive pleasure from hurting people. The abuse will never end, and if she continues contact he will continue making her life a living hell! The ONLY way to break free is NO contact. This is common knowledge with dozens, and every website I’ve visited about narcs. I really don’t have anyone to talk to. No one understands or I could even explain it because it’s far beyond insanity. That’s why I come here. I’m very glad she has you to talk to, but I don’t know about the enablement aspect. Carrie and others might be able to help you there.

    Please tell M to come here to vent, get support, advice and encouragement. But she has to do it herself. You can’t do it for her. I’ve only gone less than 60 days without contact, and my ex is already seeking revenge. She is slandering and stalking me, and I’m almost sure she broke into my house today. These people are extremely dangerous! Please tell M to stay safe and remain strong.

    My prayers are with you both.


  13. Hi All,

    To give my side to Jerry’s story. This might run a little long and I apologize for that but I thought I would give a little bit of background on me and my N. If there is such a thing as N’s. I still find it hard to wrap my head around.

    About six years ago I met the man of my dreams. So thoughtful, affectionate, nice. We had everything in common. He was my perfect jigsaw puzzle piece. We spent every spare moment together, which was easy to do as we had all the same hobbies. Also all the same points of view on music, food, politics, religion, you name it. We were two peas in a pod. I would run to the door when he came home, hopping up and down with excitement. We would both greet each other with a, I love you, I thought about you all day. I really meant it.

    We rarely fought. When we did it was always my fault so I just learned how to avoid those situations. Example: One day it was raining and he called me asking if I could pick him up from work. (he’s a bicycle commuter) I asked him if there was any chance he was getting off early. He said no. I purposely worked late so I wouldn’t just be sitting there in his work parking lot for at least half an hour waiting for him. He gets off at 5:00. I got there at 4:59 and he was standing there pissed as hell. I said I was just in time why was he mad? He got off early. Why didn’t he tell me when I had asked if there was a chance of it? It’s too noisy in his workplace and he didn’t hear me. Why didn’t he just go home? Because he didn’t want me to come there and not know where he was. (I could have figured it out) Then instead of coming with me he hopped on his bike and rode home and wouldn’t talk to me for several hours after we got home. Lesson learned. Show up early. This fight would be avoided in the future.

    Although he was very controlling as in when I ate. In the beginning wanting to give me numerous kisses during dinner no matter how starving I was and just wanting to eat. To, oh let’s have a beer, or two…..or his friends were over frequently and it was rude to eat dinner in front of them. I asked repeatedly why we couldn’t just invite them. Sometimes they would even bring burgers with them and would eat in front of me while I was starving and heaven forbid I get a grouchy face about it. Or controlling when I went to bed by saying he loved me so much, just stay up with me. Or not being able to have friends or family visit because he had extreme social anxiety. Which I never saw this anxiety with his friends or when we went out.

    A little over two years ago I had the strongest gut feeling that there was someone else. I couldn’t believe it because we had such a dream life together. I asked him about it and he simply said, there’s no one else and walked away.

    But the feeling persisted and only got stronger. At this time items around the house started to disappear. He would see me frantically searching and then two days later whatever it was would show up exactly where I had looked for it. I told him multiple times that I felt like I was going crazy. Then personal items of mine started to disappear and stay gone. Things like my fake eyelashes and my diary. He said we had a burglar. A burglar that was coming in every week or so and not taking anything of value so we wouldn’t call the police.

    He always had excuses for every weird thing I found. What looks like a smear of lipstick, which I don’t wear, on the blanket. It was the dogs. Circles of blood on the sheets two months in a row, 28 day apart, when I was not on my period. He had cuts on his hands. Him smelling of perfume when he got home. The regional manager was there and she wears a lot of perfume, it must have rubbed off. I talked to our snoopy neighbor and he told me that women did come to my house after I left for work. The neighbor is lying to break us up so he can have me for myself. On and on like that. Nothing huge but weird things plus my gut was simply screaming at me. We had many fights about this because I started flat out accusing him. He would say I was effing crazy. I kept all of this to myself for about a year then started talking to my friends. They also said I was crazy. He’s too nice. He would never do such a thing.

    Last February was the first time I tried to break up with him. He went into hysterics. Called his dad that lives about 45 minutes away. His dad came and said, my son is not a liar, my son is not a liar. After sitting awkwardly for about three hours I asked if he would just go spend the night with his parents so I could have some alone time. He burst into sobbing, gathered his things and with a yell of f you f you stormed out the door.

    Then he came back the next day saying we can still save the weekend let’s just have a nice weekend together. And so it went. Periodically I would tell him I was miserable and wanted him to move out and he would say there is no reason for us to break up because the only reason would be because you think I am cheating and I am not. I would beg him to leave. It was super hard every time. I would do it in person or write him letters. He would read the letters and say, is this what you really want? And make me repeat yes, yes, louder and louder until I would burst into tears telling him I don’t know!

    I finally told my mom and she drove out from two states away to serve him with an eviction notice which I was too scared to do. That was the end of last September. Long story short he did move out. We kept seeing each other on a regular basis. It was so hard for me to let go and he was always pushing it. Then I would become determined and not communicate for a few days and the days between when I would see him would become two weeks at a time but we would still see each other. I was stuck in limbo of not being able to let it go.

    Then Jerry put up the fake ad. His initial response was that he was flattered and also recently single. I thought no big deal. I have told him to get another girlfriend and leave me alone. He actually told me about this email girl and said he had told her he was flattered but working things out with me. Then we started spending more time together again. He would ask me to marry him each time. But he was also emailing “the girl” at the same time. He sent an email telling about himself and it was the strangest thing. He completely stole my identity. All the things that are my favorites were now his to a stranger. Last Friday morning I saw him. We had sex. He asked me multiple times to let him come home and marry him. He was sick of limbo. He wanted to come home or at least have me make a firm decision on what we were doing. I told him I would give him an answer by the end of the day. Meanwhile “the girl” emailed him that afternoon and I knew he would be dying to answer her. I went to his house after work and told him, I love you but I don’t trust you and I want this to be over. He burst into tears. Telling me to leave because it hurt too much too look at me. On my way home he emailed the girl saying how over me he is and she seems cool, etc. I texted him asking if he was going to hook up with the email girl and he said no and that if he met someone he would let me know out of respect for him.

    So he was obviously busted. Finally. I had tried to catch him for two years. I felt such relief! I wasn’t crazy! I was chanting I’m not crazy all weekend. I felt like a huge weight had been lifted.

    Then he texted saying he knew I was the email girl. It spun me around. If he knew I was the email girl then he knew he was busted. What game was he playing? What does he really know? What does he know that I know? It was always a game like that with us.

    He continued to text me. I mostly ignored him. Wednesday he asked if I was certain about it being over and I told him yes. He sent a slew of awful messages saying how effed up I am and this is all my fault, etc. I asked him to forward me the emails from him and the girl and at first he refused saying that showed a lack of trust. Then later he said he couldn’t because he deleted them all.

    After work he was still texting me with either, I effing hate you to I love you let me come home. During all these texts he emailed the girl telling her that he deleted my number, it’s over with me.

    I know this is long but this is actually the short version. I know that I cannot see him again. I know he is a poisonous liar. But I still just can’t even believe it. I have had as much proof as I would ever likely get, thanks to Jerry, because he is super smart and I tried to catch him myself for two years to no avail.

    I miss him so much. It’s all so stupid. I don’t understand how I can be so addicted to someone that is using me. Other than it never seems to sink in that he doesn’t actually love me and our entire relationship was a fantasy. Jerry thinks I am playing with fire to not block his number. I had him blocked at one time and mostly I don’t answer but sometimes he sucks me in and I can’t seem to make myself sever that last tie.


  14. Jerry, thank you for your kind words I am glad to be of help. To answer your question, it took me a long time BUT I stayed in contact with my ex for well over a year after we split and he popped back into my life a couple of times and always set me back. Once I went no contact it became much easier. And that is the thing with M,, she is wanting to ask questions (totally normal) which is totally unproductive and will not get her any closer to healed. You are right, one question leads to another and every one of them leads to another lie from the N or to the N blaming her for whatever hurt he caused her. She MUST accept that she is not going to get a straight answer from him so why ask?
    She is still expecting him to fix her, that if she gets answers she will be able to accept everything and not be hurting and able to move on. It doesn’t work that way with a narcissist. Even IF he did say it was all his fault and he is so sorry, she might feel better for a day or a few hours but after a while she would be right back where she is because “sorry” just doesn’t cut it when it comes to a narcissist.
    I remember something I saw a long time ago

    “Throw a plate on the floor
    Did it break?
    Say you are sorry to the plate
    I am sorry
    Did it go back together?

    I used to think I needed to get answers from James, but then one day I thought to myself “what would make me feel better? what could he say that would make the pain stop?”
    If he apologized I wouldn’t believe him because he had apologized so many times before and never meant it.
    If he took the blame and really meant it (how I would know that I don’t know but just saying) then it would show he had changed and now he was with some other woman. I didn’t need to know that.
    I knew more than likely he would just blame me and I knew that certainly didn’t help me
    What did I have to say that I hadn’t said a hundred times before? nothing. and if I said it all again he would do what he always did, roll his eyes and say “This again??! You have to bring up the past again and again. THIS is why we aren’t together. You can never let things go.”
    Did I really want all the sordid details of his infidelity? how was that going to make me feel better? What I did know hurt bad enough, it was over, why dig deeper, so I could hurt MORE. rip open wounds that were starting to heal? NO!

    So I didn’t ask the questions, I didn’t say what I needed to say but had said so many times before.

    If she waits the feeling to contact him will pass, but if she makes contact she is continuing to subject herself to his abuse. That is the truth. I knew that if I contacted him to ask a question I had to admit to myself and everyone who knew me that I subjected myself to his abuse, I could no longer blame him for being an asshole. This time it would be squarely on my shoulders if he hurt me.

    Healing will come from within, the person who broke you can not put you back together. That doesn’t even make sense. Why would he give you that when his whole goal was to destroy you and he got what he wanted, now you are going to trust him to be honest and have your best interests at heart, he is all of a sudden going to be honest and caring? Unless his fairy God Mother twanged him in the middle of the night it just ain’t going to happen.

    M has to do an honest and realistic analysis of herself. Those things that she keeps hearing in her head that make her feel that she is not valuable, deserves abuse, isn’t good enough, that keep her looking for his approval; she needs to address them. I don’t know what they are, only she does, but that is why I put the personality tests up the other day, so people can read about themselves and see themselves honestly and know that they are not flawed, they are normal, they have a type of personality and traits that go with that personality. I was always called too sensitive my whole life so when James said I was too sensitive I felt I was wrong to feel the way I did. I am NOT flawed for being a sensitive person, accepting that has made my life so much better. I can admit I am sensitive, I can now look at what I am feeling and analyze it and come to a conclusion about whether I am being too sensitive or justified in my reaction to something.
    She needs to get to know herself intimately and either accept her traits or change them. I bet she doesn’t change many of them because there is nothing wrong with her that she can’t modify if she wants to.

    Let me give this example: I was anorexic all through my late teens and twenties. Finally in my 30’s I drop kicked my scale out the back door and joined a gym. It took me years to get comfortable about not knowing my weight everyday. I always felt fat, I looked in the mirror and saw fat, even when I was 115 lbs and skin and skin and bones. I knew my mind was playing tricks on me and I had to work hard at not believing what my mind was telling me. I would see a pic of myself and think “Gee I don’t look fat at all” (sometimes I didn’t even recognize myself) so I knew in my logical and rational mind that I my mind was lying to me. I had it drummed into my head that I was fat but when I look at pics I NEVER was. My mom was always dieting and putting me on a diet when I was growing up because she wanted company to diet with, not because I was fat.
    To this day I look in the mirror and think I could lose a few pounds but I don’t obsess about my weight any more and I never weigh myself. I am supposed to weigh myself daily because of my heart, (with heart failure a sudden gain in weight means your heart is failing) I can’t do it. I am so afraid that if I start weighing myself again I will revert back to being obsessed about my weight and I can’t take that chance. I know that if I weigh one day 140 and the next I am 142 I am going to be upset, so I just don’t go there. Why would I take that chance?
    Same thing as some times even now I will have a thought about James and maybe it was my fault. It doesn’t happen often and it doesn’t last because I have been away for almost 5 years and I have done a lot of self counseling and I know it is just my mind playing tricks on me. If I went to talk to him now I would be setting myself up to fall back into my old ways. Why would I want to do that? There are things I would like answers to, do I think he would be honest, no, would it make my life better in anyway to know the answers, no; so why would I go there?
    I hope that helps


  15. Dear Carrie,
    I need your advice again!! Sorry, I can’t work out how to post on the site.
    I’ve got this creepy co worker who won’t leave me alone. She is female as am I. I have known her for years- we both work in the same field. I work abroad for a company. She was also freelancing for this company and got herself promoted above me and has since tried to make my life hell, undermining, harassing, staring, making crass comments and trying to humiliate me. She has my boss under her thumb so it is quite difficult to complain although my boss has apparently spoken to her about her behaviour towards me on one occasion. With all of this, she wants me to her friend, take her out with me when I am in the office and basically pander to her which I am refusing to do. She tries to find out about my private life and anyone I am friends with, she immediately befriends and encroaches on. She has recently got remarried and calmed down for a time but now seems as bad as ever/ I presume she has got bored with her new husband. She comes into the office periodically so I do have a respite but she sits opposite me and stares at me, follows me around the office and generally tries to harrass me all day. She seems pretty fixated with me and it creeps me out. She is of course charming with everyone else and they all think she is fine and that I should just deal with it. To me it feels like being stalked. I lost my cool in the end and spoke frankly to my boss about her. My boss has been monitoring the situation and it has improved but she is obviously undermining and gossiping behind my back and has stressed me out completely. What can I do about her other than move on which is obviously her intention here?
    Many thanks for your advice.


  16. Bridget, you did fine commenting but if you go to the very bottom of the comments there is a Line that says, “Don’t be shy, leave your comment and a space below that to comment. There is also a place to tick if you want to be notified of any new comments or posts.
    For whatever reason she is fixated on you which is really creepy and has to make a person wonder what she is up to. Who knows why these people pick who they do but try to not let her get to you. They do thrive on drama and trauma and if she thinks she is getting to you it will only encourage her. She is probably jealous of you for whatever reason. Maybe she feels you are popular in the office and wants to be also and thinks you will pave the way for her. I don’t know.
    Most normal people will take the hint that someone doesn’t like them and leave them alone.

    Here is what I would do; I would keep my personal life very personal, with everyone at work, I wouldn’t discuss her or anyone else. Keep any talk about what you did on the weekend to very general chit chat and don’t share anything at work at all. And then I would be sickening sweet to her, I would go out of my way to ask her how her weekend was, turn it back on her, kill her with kindness so she has nothing to bitch about with you. I would not ask her to join you at lunch or after work or anything like that but I would not try to avoid her at work either or complain any more to the boss. Snide comments, let them wash off you like water off a duck, take it as jealousy and laugh. Knowing you are so much better than her.
    Right now from the sounds of it she is getting what she wants, you are getting flustered and uncomfortable, she is playing innocent and everyone is starting to think you are the one with the problem. The boss is going to get sick of monitoring things, this is an office and not a kindergarten and the one doing the complaining is going to get negative attention. I am not saying you don’t have reason to be uncomfortable I am just saying I can see how this is going to play out.

    it is up to you if you can’t handle it and move on but i don’t think that is necessary if you just don’t take the bait. Know what she is doing and refuse to play the game with her. She is a bully and she is getting payoff from it. If you don’t react there is no payoff.

    Years ago I worked with a woman who back stabbed me every chance she got but was super sweet to my face. It got back to me what she was saying and I never let on I knew then one day we ended up alone in the computer room (back in the day when the computer needed a whole room) I closed the door and backed her into a corner. I very calmly and quietly said, “I know what you are saying behind my back.” she started to deny it and I interrupted her. “Like I said, I know what you have been saying behind my back and I wanted you to know I know.” and i walked away and left her standing there with her mouth open. I then went into the boss’s office that this woman always went in and closed the door and talked to. (if you follow me) and I stood at the doorway, when the boss asked me what I wanted I turned around and said, “Can you tell me if I have any knives in my back?” and she got all flustered and said “no why?” and I said, “Because I would hope you would talk to me directly if there is a problem and not talk behind my back. I just wanted us to be on the same page.” and I walked out of her office and that was it. I went back to work and never treated anyone any differently. I don’t know if they stopped talking behind my back but I felt better just speaking my mind and letting them know I knew.

    it doesn’t have to be a big show down and doesn’t have to involved the whole office, in fact it is better if it doesn’t because if she tells people you said anything to her you can just deny it. Play the game like they do, if she tells lies about you, or even truths just deny deny deny. That is the thing, we think we are powerless because we are honest and they are evil but we don’t have to be so damned honest all the time and we don’t have to be an open book.
    hope that helps


  17. Hi M,

    Thanks for sharing. I have a hard time understanding narcs as well because it disgusts me so much. They don’t operate with ‘normal’ human behavior or emotion so it’s very difficult to grasp. However, what you described is exactly what most all here have gone through so you’re definitely not crazy or alone. The abuse is so terrible it’s hard to know up from down anymore. It always starts out as a wonderful fantasy, but once they have you hooked the what is called “crazy making” begins. A narc can’t stand intimacy because they lack emotion, and they hate you for what they can’t have so the switch flips so to speak. It’s very difficult to understand and you never fully will so I stopped trying. I know all I need to know and it helped me break free. You’re coming out of what is called the “FOG” so it is normal what you’re experiencing. Please look this term up so that you can find some relief to start thinking clearly again.

    The missing and mysteriously returning, and stolen stuff is called “ambient abuse” (gaslighting). It’s a very common behavior with narcs. They are pathological liars and want you to think you’re going crazy so they can control you more. This is what led me to do research, this website, and to helped me to finally put the pieces together. It was ugly and scarey but gave me my sense of sanity back. I was like you, I had a “gut feeling” something was up, but I had no tangible proof so gave her the benefit of doubt. I found out on my own accord through months of investigation that she was having sex with at least 3 other men. I was appalled to say the least. I will NEVER not trust my instincts again, and highly recommend no one else does either. Narcs are notorious serial cheaters. They “mirror” everything we want in the beginning so he’s “grooming” his next victim through the ad that was placed. They are identity thieves, because the lack one, so this is also very common. I’m so glad you had Jerry to help you catch him because you might still be suckered in his web of lies and abuse.

    I’m so happy to hear you’ve broken free. My best advice for you is to have NO contact. It is the ONLY way you will heal from this. Otherwise the crazy making, abuse, torment and hell will never end!! This isn’t just my own personal advice. It’s the advice of EVERY website I’ve researched and read including this one. I also read on numerous websites (including this one) the abuse will get far worse next time. I don’t want to scare you, but these people are extremely dangerous and incapable of change. It’s hard to grasp, but they lack guilt, remorse, empathy and conscience.

    It took me awhile but I missed her in the first stages like you do. This is also completely normal. I think you want the person you fell in love with back like I think most do in some degree. But that person was never there to begin with which is an extremely difficult and sad process. What helped me get through it was realizing that I was in love with just a dream, and sympathy that she is incurable from the lack of empathy or love. Please keep coming back here M every time you feel weak and the urge to contact him. ‘Vomit’ out all the poison and toxins and I promise it will get easier. People here like Carrie will understand what you’re going through so that you don’t think you’re crazy or alone. I’m very glad you have Jerry in your corner. He sounds like a very intelligent, caring and good man. Please be safe and know you will get through this day by day, sometimes hour by hour, week by week, and then month by month until you’re completely free! You deserve it M, so give this gift to yourself.

    (((Holy Hugs)))


  18. M, thanks for your honesty. No worries about the length of your comment. Believe me you are normal, I felt exactly the same way as you, as most victims of an N. I noticed you did the same thing I and most victims do; in the beginning of your comment you expounded on how perfect the two of you were, two peas in a pod, as a way of showing why you were so in love and wanted to believe him. It was not just some guy, it was not some ordinary love, this was your soul mate, it was almost supernatural. I read about narcissists years before I left James, I read the traits and thought, yeah he could have the traits but these women don’t know what he and I have. “James and I have something people just don’t find everyday, in a life time!” I KNEW he loved me, we had such a connection. Almost all victims have the exact same thing to say.
    Everything you said rings true to me and I am sure 95% of everyone else here who reads it.
    I busted James so many times, and I would be hurt but relieved also to validated, this time he couldn’t talk his way out of it, this time I had him, I had proof, hard facts, pictures, or letters in his own writing, my God I would have him so busted and for a day or two I would feel better, finally I had the truth. But within a day or two he would have me doubting myself or I would find myself begging him to come back to me and I was sorry for something!? It was bizarre how he could twist things and turn things back on me, make the most bizarre circumstances sound feasible and logic sound crazy.
    I would kick him out and he would come home later and pretend like nothing happened, we would have a horrible fight and an hour later he would act like every thing was fine. Or I would think everything was great and come home to find out he had moved out. My God he told me he had been given 6b months to live and I was the only woman he could ever love and the sob was living with 2 other women alternately depending on who was angry with him that day. I thought it was impossible for him to tell two women that he loved them at the same time and I found out that he had told 6 women in 1 year that he loved them and they were the love of his life.
    Why do you still love him? Because contrary to what makes sense; that we will eventually collect enough info and get hurt enough that we will be able to walk away and not love him any more, it doesn’t work that way. What actually happens, is the more we invest the harder we hang on. By invest I mean, we catch him, we forgive him (giving of ourselves) and take him back, we compromise our instincts (giving up part of ourselves), we accept treatment we know we shouldn’t (we give away our self respect), we let them move in again (we put the past behind us and try again) We go against what friends and family think we should do (we give away our support system) We believe his lies even tell ourselves lies (we give away our trust in ourselves) We give up our power and hand it all to him, we say, “I am weak, I cannot fight this love, I need him to feel good about myself, I need him to make it all ok because I have given him every single thing that makes me who I am. I have invested simply everything I have, it has to work out, I have to have my happy ending or else I invested in nothing………not just nothing, but I invested everything I am in a facade, a dream, an asshole. That is very hard to accept. If we admit what they are we have to admit we got duped, we were sucked in in the biggest way possible, we have to admit that there are horrible, vile, evil people out there who really don’t give two shits about anyone but themselves. Everything I loved about him was a lie.
    As long as you have contact with him you keep the hope alive that somehow you are wrong, you cling to the hope that a miracle is going to happen and you will wake up and it will all be a bad dream. And as long as he has any tiny opening he will do whatever he can to instill doubt and confusion in your mind. He will bombard you with love, then guilt you for awhile, then baffle you with bull shit and smoke and mirrors until you just give up in total exhaustion and throw your hands up and say, “I can’t fight it, I give up.” The only way to move on, to start to heal is to have no contact, to cut the ties. I wish it wasn’t true but it is. I couldn’t do it for almost a year after we had split. He was living with another woman and I still could not cut him out completely, it was like my life line but I will tell you that the minute I did, I started to finally heal. Because every communication I had with him set me back. Once you no longer talk to him any healing you do is a step forward but the minute you talk to him again you go right back to square one again.

    I hadn’t talked to James for more than a year and he showed up out of the blue where I did business, one hour of talking to him and I was a basket case again.

    It is totally up to you, I know it is hard, I could handle me not contacting him the problem was I wanted him to have access to contact me if he wanted. That is the true of it. I wanted to leave that door open in case he changed. But he never will and it keeps you living on hope and telling yourself lies. It is going to hurt, there is no two ways around it. But the healing will come a lot faster when you cut him out of your life.

    As for taking on your personality, lol I had to laugh when I read that because that is exactly what James did to me also. It was like he stole my whole life and left me a shell of a person. He talked like I would talk, his morals were my morals, his values were mine, he talked like he was shocked I would ever think he would break the law or lie. Wjo did he think he was talking to? I knew him better than anyone. He told everyone and his new woman that I did to him what he had done to me!! They went on the vacation I always wanted to take, everything I had wanted him to do for me he did with her. They set things up to be the most painful for the victim as it can be. I realized after James and I split that his ex hated that he was a trucker, he screwed around the whole time they were together so with me he quit trucking and pretended to give me everything she had wanted, they had been together 10 years and once we made it to the 10 year mark he went back to trucking. He was so happy that she had really hated me because we had lasted longer than they had. How sick is that? he would stay with me just to make her feel it was all her fault he screwed around.
    My ex went for dinner with me one night I caught him with another woman the next day and that night he moved in with another woman. Then he got engaged to that woman and showed up a week later professing his undying love for me. They are assholes, M.
    Good luck and please do not hesitate to comment as long as you like we are here if you need an ear or support. or a shot of reality!


  19. M, I agree with you. I am still processing the fact there are people who are not serial killers, but are just as heartless. I never would have imagined there existed such people until this happened to me. But as I look back at our relationship, and as Carrie put it in one of her posts, see the whole thing through a different set of eyes, there is no denying they exist. It is heart-wrenching and life-shattering. I look at everyone suspiciously now and I hate it! Stay strong!


  20. Carrie and Healing- It helps more than I can describe to hear you both saying the same things I’m offering to M in my own support of her. I know how old it gets sounding like a stuck record from one person but when those of you who have been through the trenches with a narc sound off in unison like this, it helps M, offers her the hands on wisdom of those who have been in her shoes. Though I wish she had found this place sooner, I’m also familiar with the concept, it takes what it takes to reach a point where help is sought then found. M has progressed from a frozen in place, fearful shell of a woman to where she is now. She hates change and just wants to live a simple life with people who care about and love her in her circle. It isn’t like she’s an impossible dreamer or anything. She’s simply a genuinely good woman with a tender heart, a good mind with a good dose of adorability. At least that’s my obviously biased opinion of her. She’s one of the best women I’ve ever met or had a chance to know as I do now.

    I know my own involvement with her has been running a parallel course to her moods and circumstance of her relationship with this cretin. As much as it hurt to walk away the first time, I look at it now as a chance to get my feelings for her placed where they weren’t a source of guilt for her and to regain some balance for myself. That was a biggy in our previous dynamic. Shortly after being in touch this ‘second time around’, she gave me the link to this place. A whole universe of information and anecdotal affirmation that she wasn’t crazy, just caught up in a crazy situation opened up to me. I knew all along she wasn’t crazy but she couldn’t seem to shake the idea on her own. And I couldn’t know the full extent of her circumstance back then either. It was just, ahem, too crazy.

    She hates that word after being subjected to his crazy inducing abuse and hearing that same word used to describe her from his asshole buddy who was often in her home but was someone she wouldn’t ordinarily give the time of day to. Her narc had found his sugar momma and had no regard for her or her feelings but he sure liked having a home to live in where he could manage every little detail of her life and sneak women into her bed after she went to work. Reading all the accounts of others and recognizing all the similarities to her own situation has been huge in helping her accept she’s not crazy. My ad helped confirm it and raise enough hard evidence to stop the spin long enough to let her jump off his merry-go-round. Her most recent challenge has been to sever all contact. She blocked him from her phone. But I’m afraid she’ll eventually have to bite the bullet and change her number.

    I actually researched if emotional and psychological abuse was a criminal activity and found nothing to help the victim. The only thing remotely close are laws against harassment. She still hasn’t done it at my urging but if a person states in document form (email, text), “Leave me alone and never contact me again”, any later contact by the narc falls under the legal definition of harassment. This can be used to receive a restraining order should one ever become necessary. Where we are, the first offense is a misdemeanor, the second time on, a felony. Her narc had a run in with the law several years ago so this may be yet another tool she could use. But I would be holding out for a pipe dream to think she’ll take this step with her narc. Nonetheless, I was appalled that our legal system blatantly ignores this very real, very destructive abuse. I realize proving the abuse in court would be impossible so maybe that’s why this falls in the cracks. But the bottom line is it’s wrong. Very wrong that someone can decimate another person’s life with legal impunity. My own way of dealing with him would find me going to prison and I’m not going there. That doesn’t seem a good alternative to the life I have now. But knowing this tidbit of legalese may help someone else do their own research into local law and put yet another barrier between them and their narc.

    We’re in for a long haul in her healing. I know and accept this. This place gives me hope. Yesterday gives me hope in how she’s approaching this now. We talked (actually had a spat) last night which was resolved by both of us about how much she has felt herself changing. She even brought me ice cream as a peace offering along with a hug when we reached the end of it. That’s the kind of woman she is and to think her life was being tortured by that animal (sorry animals) makes me livid. The boundaries between M and me are healthy and helpful while she negotiates her own path. But the fact is, she is worth the energy, time, and emotional investment I’m offering her. This place is among the top reasons she is stepping forward into recovery rather than sinking deeper into the nightmare. Again, thank you for being here for us.


  21. Jerry, you are more than welcome. I am truly happy to be able to help you guys. I have worked with some women I thought would never be able to let go, that they were doomed to be the N’s punching bag forever but they end up being the strongest women when they finally do let go and they have the most positive revelation and inner peace when they do.
    Hugs to you both


  22. Thanks for getting back to me about my question, Carrie. M and I have been back and forth about her putting blocks on his phone number and email address so she doesn’t have to hear more from him. She’s reached the point where she has him blocked on both now. It’s still a day by day proposition to keep him blocked but she’s hanging in there and white knuckling through her tough times and texting me about it as it happens. We’re both trying to get an arsenal of techniques together for her to resort to in her tough moments. Everything from breathing exercises and meditation to the D letters (our fictional character) to reading through your blog are all now things she has at her disposal. We spend time together and I’m trying to make it a safe haven escape from her reality when she visits me. Our latest topic of the day is her propensity to feel guilt regardless whether it’s deserved or not which 99 times out of 100 is totally undeserved.

    She has a knee jerk response to whatever she feels she isn’t doing right which immerses her in guilt. Personally, I think it’s one of those things he planted in her head a long, long time ago to gain power and control over her. I’m pointing out the reasons she has nothing to feel guilty about but we all know in matters of the heart, rational thought rarely makes much difference. Nonetheless, when she says she feels guilty, I ask her to look at exactly why she feels compelled to indulge in it. She’s looking at it which is all I can ask of her. But it’s deeply seeded in her psyche and one I suspect we’ll contend with for quite awhile. Anyway, she probably wouldn’t admit it herself but I think she’s making progress. We have an agreement that she’ll tell me if she wants to remove the blocks so I’m hoping she’ll live up to our agreement. At least if she tells me, I have a moment in which I can try to talk her through the moment. But if she can hang on a little longer, he may stop his efforts at contacting her since she isn’t responding to any of what he’s sending to her. It’s literally a classic case of what she doesn’t know can’t hurt her.

    She’s spending time at her home doing yard work and getting caught up on work she neglected during the throes of her depression. She’s eating and said this morning that she slept through the night last night but had a dream of being kidnapped and tortured. I’m guessing her body and mind are expelling some of the toxins from her N which are showing up as these dreams. There’s just so much to deal with on so many psychological and emotional fronts but she’s managing and like I said, making headway. I’m really, really proud of her!

    Again, thanks for this place. Each of us reach out to serve our individual needs and the voice of the whole is helping each of us continue to put one foot in front of the other in this long road of healing. Keep up the good work.


  23. Carrie, I needed to see everything you wrote to M. Thank you. Not only can I not seem to stop questioning everything, but I spend most waking hours thinking of clever and often mean things I should’ve said or would like to say in self-defense. It makes me feel like I’m getting some power back I guess, but it’s so unproductive!!


  24. Hi Carrie
    I loved your comment. It was inspiring. I particularly loved the hard questions to yourself and your answers to them. And the plate analogy simple and easy to cognitively process because as you know after leaving an abusive narc your capacity to understand is so limited due to the gaslighting stonewalling secretiveness ect all by the person you love and wanted to make happy. I also could not get rid of my exnarc out of my house. One example went like this. After spending the whole night out with a male and female friend and calling me at 3am to pick him up and take him and his female friend home I refused and said get a taxi (first I said yes I would come get him then he added I had to take her home who lived about 30mis away then I said no. I must have been starting to set boundaries up) then he comes home at about 9 am ( she got someone to drive him home with her in the car) he comes inside and say “I want to breakup” I said “fine I love you and want you to be happy” so what does he do He Goes TO BED and sleeps!!!! This was just one example of many over the 3 years of trying to get him out. The only way I got him out was via an unplanned intervention with his friends. They were over one night and he was doing his lying manipulation stuff and I called him on it. It was about the fact that he had no money ever. Anyway to prove himself he stupidly got an unopened payslip and gave it to his friend to open and after he gave it to his friend he said I shouldn’t be giving you that-that’s the thing about Narcs they are so in need to be right it becomes an impulsive behaviour- anyway his friend opened the payslip and boom he had earned 9000 yes nine thousand in two weeks. I flipped went historical started crying and said I don’t want to be with you I can’t do this anymore. And with that his friend told him to pack his bag his taking him home. And that was that. That was my painful closure. This was 14 months ago and he is still in my life despite me going full metal no contact I even changed my phone number. How is he still in my life -through my 25 year old son. Even yesterday my son comes over and starts urging with me about him because my daughter was bad mouthing the exnarc awhile ago and he starts yelling and throwing his mobile phone. And storms off -this is what my son said to me about his anger outburst- Mum you have to understand that I am not going to sit here and listen to someone bad month my friend (the ex narc) I could not believe what I was hearing. I said ” your friend is a guy who used me lied to me treated me like shit abused me. I will talk about anyone I want and how they treated me. Son said “well it’s your fault were friends because you introduced me to him.” With that I went outside to breath and said “you are responsible for your own choices you are not the victim here”. Then I used all my knowledge I had gained over the 14 months of recovering from a Narc relationship and that was They will turn your friends and family against you if you leave them. So I just took it for what it was just another form of manipulation by the exnarc playing out in real life. What inspired me the most about your life story is your strength and how you overcome many obstacles in your life. It resonated with me as I was sexually abused by my dad emotionally psychologically and physically abused by my mum and step dad for years (who curiously I have no contact with them after I broke up with the exnarc as I saw their abusive behaviour towards me much clearer after that and I just could not psychologically or physically allow anyone to abuse me anymore) Your story gives me hope because you appear to have reached a stage in your recovery thats about empowering your self. After I ended the relationship (well 5 mths later because I spent every weekend in bed) I went to therapy, mediation, psychics anywhere I thought could help me heal from my life time of trauma. And I still feel broken. I still think I am never going to be over the pain. But your words gave me hope that someday even 5 years from now I will be in a more emotionally stable space. I wont be my old self but thank goodness for that I never want to be that vulnerable person again but I will be content and wiser.


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