Support Forum

 

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To all new visitors! Welcome!!
You have found a great group of supportive people who have all been through what you are going through and understand completely the devastation you are feeling.
You are NOT crazy and you are not to blame, you are in a relationship or just left a relationship with a narcissist/psychopath. You are not alone. Come as often as you like to vent, ask questions, cry, and get support and encouragement.
All I ask is that everyone is respectful of each other’s opinions and understands that most everyone here are at a heightened emotional state. While with the narcissist the victim lived with constant trauma, drama and were told constantly that they were wrong to feel what they were feeling and that they were flawed in some way; it makes sense they are very sensitive to criticism. 
Opinions are just that, if someone has a different opinion than you it doesn’t mean someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong. Everyone is entitled to voice an opinion.
I may have an opinion you don’t agree with and I am more than willing to back up whatever I say, so feel free to question me and I will explain why I feel the way I do. Not to convince you I am right but to explain why I feel the way I do and maybe I will give you some information you didn’t know before. Or maybe you will enlighten me. An exchange of ideas is healthy and how we learn. 
Just remember, narcissists are basically all the same but the victims are as different as people can be, we all have our own history and frame of reference. Please respect that!
Hugs
Carrie

6,009 thoughts on “Support Forum

  1. Hi Carrie, Healing and All,

    hope you are doing ok. I’ve made up my decision: I’m leaving next week back to Italy. I did try so hard to cut every tie and my hope was to be able to stay here, finding a new job, new friends and some peace.
    Unfortunately, things are not going that well. I’m afraid going back to my country will mean being overwhelmed by harsh memories of what I have endured.
    In the past weeks I’ve been trying to sell the furniture that still is in my once shared apt, a friend of ours took some pics to send to the buyer, which didn’t buy them due to the costs of transportation. But, everything was exactly how I left them when I left, almost an year ago.. this is really astonishing, I thought she likely destroyed everything mine or put it in the cave. Even my books are still in their original position and the sheets .. she didn’t even strip my bed. I can’t believe this. I’m trying to figure out what this means.
    Can’t find a meaning, this is not linear with her behavior.

    Anyway, please wish me luck and thank you for your support.
    Wish the best to all of you.
    Ciao.

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    • Rosi, you can still come in here and let us know how you are doing, we will always be here as support for you. You don’t know what is waiting for you when you go back, maybe it will be exactly what you need. Either way you will be back in your own country, it is hard to have to start all over making new friends, finding work etc, Do you not have old friends back in Italy? family? To try and figure out why a narcissist does what they do is futile. They will do things just to suck you in and confuse you. Try to not spend too much time trying to figure out why she did or does what she does and focus on what you need to do for yourself and to find peace.
      Please stay in touch, we care.
      Hugs

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      • Ditto on Carrie’s comment that we care. I can already “see” how much better you’re doing, and hope you do too! My prayers are with you, Rosi.

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        • I don’t really feel if I’m doing that better but maybe I’m not yet able to see it. What I still feel is pain and so much anxiety due to going back. Anyway thank you healing for your kind words and thoughts. I will let you know. Hugs. take care. ciao

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      • Hi Carrie, welcome back. I was wondering how you were doing. Maybe is the way you say it: going back could be what I need. I got some relief while in Paris during the last months but couldn’t find a job. I have few friends here, including the one who made me meet her, yesterday they made a party for me to say goodbye, this made me feel good, appreciated and cared for. In Italy I do have some old friends, some have gone, due to all I have endured, as you surely know, many people “simply” don’t get it, they don’t understand why you suffer so much and why you are so devastated. Other once shared friends just didn’t believe me when I tried to talk about my situation and some just went “missing” after the smear campaign and the lies and distorsion she told. I am sure she depicted me as the “crazy one”, the bad one and so on. I guess this was made on the purpose to do me the worst harm and to ensure that no one will ever be willing to listen to me and my (the) truth. What a masterpiece. when I last tried to talk to her before leaving my country and trying to make her acknowledge what she did, she screamed that she will never change her version because her version suits her and that she doesn’t want to see me again, she is happy without me and with the once shared friend (new supply) and that she will eventually throw everything mine out. So, yes, you’re right, this is very confusing me, when I saw everything is still as it was when I left.
        Thank you so much for your support, I confess to have really bad thougths about me, and am really afraid to not be able to endure the suffering. I’m afraid to hear her voice inside my mind telling me I am a failure, going back with nothing, no money and my reputation and trust in me and others destroyed. Hope to figure out how to go on and find peace. Even if the relatioship is over the damage is still going on. A shared friend told me that it is not true that she in a relationship with that guy and that she told me this just bacuse she is nuts and to do even more harm. It’s so hard to accept that the person I have loved so much wasn’t real.
        Anyway, to take back the focus on me, I think I’ll start to search and apply for jobs (in Italy there is very severe economic situation) and I can count on my mother. My father died from a cancer a few months ago, after a long agony. I can’t help thinking how much he was likely the woman I’ve been involved in.
        Maybe I can go on writing, and try to succeed. Thank you again from the depth of my heart for your support, it means a lot to feel understanding and comprehension. I will let you know. Take good care you too. Hugs, ciao.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Hello Carrie and all, I haven’t posted for a while but I do come and read comments for support . Before I start I want to tell everyone that trust in God and Pray…I have come so far with gods love. He has a plan for all of us and no one and I mean No one will get in gods way. Stay strong and let him take control.
        I am a little out of sorts this morning and need a little support, I had my divorce hearing and it went well, I live in Pa and he lives in West Virginia. He was living in the home when I moved back to Pennsylvania and was paying the mortgage, I didn’t want to move back but the emotional abuse and having no friends or family there I moved back. I found out that he went to the Philippines and has a 30 year old girlfriend and he is 60..when I found this out I went to the house and got the rest of my things and let him know I knew where he was. He then moved out of the house refused to pay the mortgage and is now living in a trailer. We went to court, he has to pay half the mortgage and utilities and.the house is up for sale.
        Now with that said at the hearing I said nothing to him nor did I look at him I have been NC since February. That evening I got a text message that he hoped we could be kind to one another and he would not be contacting me for a long time so he can heal, bla,bla,bla….I did not respond and don’t plan to…now two weeks later he send me an email asking if he can move back into the house for six months and then he will buy the house, he has been trying to get financing since February..what bank takes that long to make a decision on financing …he said if he did not hear from me in 5 days he would know that this is something I would not consider. I did not answer and I sent the email to my lawyer…with these two attempts to converse I have found out that he has bought this woman to the U.S. . Now I know why he said that he would not be be contacting me for a long time and he wanted to rent the house for six months..he wanted to move that woman in my house..i do not want this man in my life I know he is the devil…but feel a little down. My life is good and I am happy I plan to travel and have some fun. I sold my house here in Pennsylvania and looking for a new start..I just needed to vent a bit..thank you all for listening I feel better just writing this email.
        Everyone have a blessed day and stay strong.
        Love to all
        Jean

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        • Hi Jean,

          Glad to hear you’re doing so much better :) Smart of you to catch onto his tricks, and give copy of all communication to your attorney. He’s so low on supply, he had to go out of the country for it. There is truly no lengths they will o for it. I’m happy to hear you’re looking to the future with hope. Yes, God is good. Thanks for the warm thoughts and prayers, as mine are with you as well.

          Love and Light.

          Liked by 1 person

  2. Hello, all. I can’t believe it’s taken me almost a year to find this forum on line. First I thought writing in my journal would be enough… then I thought telling my friends details that I’ve been hiding for years would be enough…. then I thought… well, maybe a therapist. But then I discovered this forum and realized there are other people out there who have experienced the same devastation that I have. It’s horrible and painful and no one really understands… unless you’ve gone. through the same thing. My story:

    Handsome, charming medical professional meets newly-divorced social worker (that’s me). He comes to my office and tells me quiet, intimate stories about his life and the family farm he’s restoring. He seems perfect. His last relationship? She was unhappy… they grew apart… she got a brain tumor which obviously accounted for her personality changes.

    We start living together. He’s everything I’ve always wanted in a man…. cute as hell, passionate, is a great cook, funny (he had great stories), knowledgeable about so many things which he’s willing to share with me. He teaches me how to mountain bike, kayak, cross country ski. I don’t do any of those things especially well but well enough to keep up with him. Our love life was very passionate for the first year, then gradually cooled off…. he always was in charge of the lovemaking…I could never initiate sex. But I just thought it was his strange little quirk.

    My family didn’t like him, my mother, especially. He was always very charming to her and I didn’t understand her dislike of him; I actually thought she might be a little bit jealous because he was so wonderful and she had been so unhappy in her relationships., My oldest son recently told me he had never liked him, but didn’t say anything because I was so happy.

    Three years ago things began to change. I went away for a week to a conference in Florida and he had some kind of episode in which he came to work, couldn’t remember anything, and got confused. Not a good thing in a medical professional! He had a complete workup and they didn’t find anything wrong. HIs doctor decided he was having panic attacks. Here’s the thing: I went back to work and a co-worker asked me if he was okay….I had no idea what she was talking about. When I got home that night, I asked him what had happened…. he told me just a little bit. When I asked him why he hadn’t told me, he said he didn’t think it was any of my business.

    I knew then that something was really wrong. The following month we went hiking in a very remote area. He didn’t want to go and was miserable to me…I finally left him resting and went on ahead by myself. At some point he passed me (while I was taking a pee) and I’m sure he knew that he had since he’s in much better physical shape than me and there’s no way he wouldn’t have very quickly caught up to me. But he left me all alone in the wilderness. I hiked all the rest of that day by myself and never saw another person. I’m stubborn and didn’t turn back. When I finally made it back to the car at the end of the day, he was sitting there. He was clearly relieved to see me and made a joke about sending the rangers out for me. But I knew then that something was really wrong.

    Something was really wrong. That phrase kept repeating itself over and over for the next two years… two years! We stopped having sex and he said he loved me…. wanted to protect me…. wanted to be with me…. but simply didn’t feel that way about me any more. He never said anything, but I felt as though I was too old/too ugly/too fat. I spent months agonizing over this and decided I wanted to stay with him. We had built up a life together, with friends and summer days at the farm, which I loved. Another thing: I wrote him a poem on Valentine’s day….. he opened the card but didn’t read the poem. I asked him why, and he said “I don’t do poetry” in a cold, flat voice. His co-worker told me that he was spending a lot of time on the phone with someone who wasn’t me… I was so upset I left work, and when I challenged him that night he denied everything so very sincerely. He went in the next day and filed a formal complaint against her. But it was all true.

    I started finding little things….a map to a park with the bike trail highlighted. His favorite recipe written out and tucked in his pants pocket. A blond woman’s Facebook page showing up in my computer history…. he actually blamed that on my 20-y.o. son, even though the woman was 52.

    I finally confronted him… said I didn’t think he loved me anymore (still the focus on him!) and was just using me for a convenient place to live until he retired and moved to the farm. He admitted it. He said he didn’t love, hadn’t in a while, and said living with me was just too good a thing to give up.,

    I was devastated. The pain was incredible. I had been waiting for him to turn back into the man I met, my perfect soul mate. Instead, I was left with a cheating bastard who used me, bad. Everyone was right: I was too good for him.

    That was a year ago. The devastation lessened over time. He continued to rent a room from me, and pretended like nothing had happened. He told everyone that I had broken up with him. He kept calling me darling which I told him not to repeatedly. Then one day I found a series of e-mails… he had mistakenly used my e-mail address to send out multiple requests for hook-up sex one afternoon….WITH MEN. I knew it was him because he sent photos.

    Okay, I was traumatized again. I told him to get out. He continued to deny, deny,deny.. Finding out he had been doing this for god knows how long was maybe even more confusing and painful than the original breakup. But I’m working through that…. realizing he uses women to hide behind because he can’t acknowledge his true sexuality. Did I mention that he’s a homophobe? Pretty ironic.

    And now I hear he’s getting married to his childhood sweetheart. The blows just keep coming….I feel traumatized for her. I so want to call her and warn her, but I know it wouldn’t do any good…. it wouldn’t have helped me.

    Now, I’ve been in a relationship for the past six months. I like him a lot but I find that I’m hypersensitive to every comment that might be construed as negative. I;’m super aware of any behavior that might mean he’s cheating on me. He’s really a standup kind of guy but I don’t trust myself anymore. How do I regain my trust in myself so I don’t spoil this relationship? I think, in the final analysis, that that’s what V. stole from me…. my belief in myself, my trust in myself, my confidence.

    Thank you for listening.

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  3. I have a question…after surviving this relationship, I have very few friends left. not because he did this, but mostly because they thought I was an idiot for staying, AND told me so. nice friends, but whatever. but, what really irks me, is one of my dearest friends who recently suggested I have a specific mental illness, and asked me if I thought so too. I was shocked to say the least. ive only been out of the relationship with him for a short time. and of course ive been mentally tortured for a long time. I felt like my friend was my abuser all over again ie; always trying to show me/tell me what was wrong with me. I wanted to say to her: “what the f*&^k do you think is wrong with me????? ive just spent the last several years in hell, and im not acting right?????” but, instead, I just said no, and changed the subject. I would just like to know, what is a normal response? how could I respond to this suggestion? how do I not feel downright angry and resentful for her saying this to me?

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    • Hi lost,

      I wouldn’t be able to begin to tell you, how not to be angry and resentful. I believe have the right to be, and all of us are, in some degree or another, at least until you come more into another time and place. To simply answer your question, both of your reactions were “normal.” People who haven’t had this experience, cannot and will not understand, no matter how much you try to explain it to them. This is main reasoning as to why, these forums were created, in so that you can share you experience without judgement from those who can understand, and not feel so alone, so you’re in the right place.

      Carrie, has had specific experience with losing friends and family with the same judgements you’ve experience, as I’ve read from others as well, so I believe its very common what you’ve experienced as well. I’m sorry people, especially friends and family, aren’t more sensitive about the pain you’ve endured. It’s part of what makes healing, that much more difficult. No, you’re not crazy, and have the right to feel angry and hurt. Please don’t allow anyone to make you feel that you don’t have this right.

      Please be gentle with yourself, and take care of you. Since you’ve just ending the relationship, please keep researching, and vent here as much as you’d like, and MOST importantly, cut ALL ties, and go NO contact. It is the ONLY way you will heal from this.

      Holy Hugs

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    • Lost….You have every right to feel angry and resentful for her saying that. She may have had misguided “good intentions:” and in some weird way trying to help, but you’re allowed to feel as though you were victimized all over again. Tell her so. If she’s a true friend, she’ll regret saying something so upsetting to you…. and she’ll deepen her own understanding of the hell you’ve endured. Just keep the focus on you and your feelings when talking to her. And that won’t be easy, ’cause you probably haven’t had a whole heck of a lot of practice doing that lately. And I know exactly how you feel, my friends all used to look at me with such sympathy, and they didn’t know most of what was going on! Good luck.

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      • lost, I think kaylee’s response is spot on. If it makes you feel any better, even my therapist, judged and criticized my experience, and she’s a trained profession. Someone is always here to hear and support you. Stand proud that you’ve taken the first step, and have gotten yourself out. Keep moving forward, take care of and be gentle with yourself.

        Love and Light

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  4. yay! VALIDATION! I KNEW I was in the right place lol thank you so much guyz for understanding. its frustrating to not be able to explain it, and I cant possibly even speak to her right now aside from “hello. how are you?” and keeping it “light” I am so grateful for this sight, for all of the support, and to Carrie for being the amazing woman she is! and on a positive note….if the N is mirroring/reflecting our image/behaviours…and we fall in love him….couldn’t I safely say…I loved MYSELF? how cool is that? lol

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  5. Hello everyone,

    My name is Jo and I’ve been the victim of narcassist abuse for the last four years. We are no longer together…I’ve tried staying strong and in all honesty I don’t think I’ve ever been as strong as I have this last 5 weeks. I’ve never gone this long without seeing him. He came over 5 weeks ago even though we haven’t really been together for some time we played the friend card. Of course this meant he got sex without having to commit. 5 weeks ago he was trying it on and I told him no….to cut a long story short I reminded him of the past abuse and told him I no longer want to be used for sex. With that and realising his efforts were wasted he stood up said we will discuss this in the week and he never contacted me again.

    During bouts of his silent treatment he does this thing where he has parcels sent to my home so I have to contact him, he did that last week….I did contact him and he said it would be better if I just forwarded them on to him as he doesn’t want to see me. It’s such a head **** !! He has kept me on his fb which I don’t understand and I. Finding myself stalking it, I know that’s not healthy. It looks like he has another love interest on the go already. He has verbally and physically abused me over 4 years and yet I’m still thinking of him every day. I know narcs don’t give closure but I’m wondering what is going on his head. I don’t even want the guy back so why am i still obsessing? Any advice, tips would be appreciates.

    Much love xx

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    • Hi joe..we have all been there and know what you are going thru. Your N still wants to control you and be in your life. I would take those packages to the post office and tell them he does not live at your address. Second, go No contact, this is the only way to heal..treat him like a criminal trying to get in your house, lock all doors and windows..I am lifting up prayers for you, stay strong and remember God loves you!
      Jean

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      • Hi Jean

        Thank you for replying to me. I’m sat crying because for the first timein four years I can talk to people who understand what I’ve been going through. It feels like such a relief to me. I talk to my friends and my family but they just tell me to “get over him, it’ll take time” etc it’s not that easy. I feel so co dependent on him and I hate it.

        Thank you for kind words, you have no idea what they mean to me xxx

        Liked by 1 person

        • Jo I am here for you, people don’t understand our break up with narcs is not the normal break up and they don’t understand..any time you need to talk I am here. You deserve so much better and God will answer your prayers. Keep believing, praying.
          Jean

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    • Hi Jo,

      Congrats on the 5 weeks not contact! Don’t look back. It’s normal to obsess when we don’t get closure, or know what the hell just happened or is going on, but this is how they get their hooks back in. No contact, is the only way you will heal from this. The withdrawals you’re experiencing will subside over time. Keep reading blogs and researching, and you will understand much further what happened, and how to heal from this. Every time you think about contacting him, think all all the abuse he’s put you through. You’re in a safe place. Stay in the Light!

      Holy Hugs

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      • Hi healing

        Thank you for getting back to me, it means so much to hear from people like yourself who understand what I’m going through.

        These last few months I’ve done my homework so much in narcs and I believe that’s what has given me the strength to move forward and do NC. I just wish I could stop obsessing. Some days I think back to the name calling, being pushed around, spat at, the messages to other girls and the life of walking on egg shells….then other days I think back to the good times, I question myself, blame myself, and all the other text book symptoms of narcassist victim syndrome…..I just hope it ends soon.

        Thank you so much for your reply, it has helped me more than you know xxx

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    • Hi, Jo….don’t beat yourself up about obsessing….you’ve been doing that for years and it was how you managed the relationship. That takes time to change. Try realizing when it’s happening….try to step out of yourself, take some deep breaths, and imagine your sacred self, or whatever spiritual source of comfort you identify. Practice makes perfect! It does take time, but you will feel healthier and lighter.

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  6. Hi Jerry,

    It’s very devastating after ending the relationship with a narc. If you both are on this website, there’s more than a very good chance he is a narc. Please watch Sam Vaknin’s videos on youtube to learn more. Please continue to research and maybe together. You’ll find all the stories very much the same. After doing the research was the point where I put the pieces together and started to break free. I then realized I missed the idea of who she was, not who she really is. This is what helped me detach even further. Hopefully understanding this will help M as well. After further research i discovered there are not curable, and this is when I knew it was truly over.

    She’s most likely been gaslighted and brainwashed so I believe she is still extremely confused and trying to make sense of it all. I’m sure she has tons of questions, but there is no way she will get any answers from him, and the ones she gets with definitely be more lies. They are pathological liars. There is no making sense of it which is partly what’s maddening. I’m sure she feels the whole world has been turned upside down at this point.

    Please let her know that she is truly in danger. They are socio/pychopaths without guilt, remorse or empathy or conscience. They are capable of anything and derive pleasure from hurting people. The abuse will never end, and if she continues contact he will continue making her life a living hell! The ONLY way to break free is NO contact. This is common knowledge with dozens, and every website I’ve visited about narcs. I really don’t have anyone to talk to. No one understands or I could even explain it because it’s far beyond insanity. That’s why I come here. I’m very glad she has you to talk to, but I don’t know about the enablement aspect. Carrie and others might be able to help you there.

    Please tell M to come here to vent, get support, advice and encouragement. But she has to do it herself. You can’t do it for her. I’ve only gone less than 60 days without contact, and my ex is already seeking revenge. She is slandering and stalking me, and I’m almost sure she broke into my house today. These people are extremely dangerous! Please tell M to stay safe and remain strong.

    My prayers are with you both.

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  7. Hi All,

    To give my side to Jerry’s story. This might run a little long and I apologize for that but I thought I would give a little bit of background on me and my N. If there is such a thing as N’s. I still find it hard to wrap my head around.

    About six years ago I met the man of my dreams. So thoughtful, affectionate, nice. We had everything in common. He was my perfect jigsaw puzzle piece. We spent every spare moment together, which was easy to do as we had all the same hobbies. Also all the same points of view on music, food, politics, religion, you name it. We were two peas in a pod. I would run to the door when he came home, hopping up and down with excitement. We would both greet each other with a, I love you, I thought about you all day. I really meant it.

    We rarely fought. When we did it was always my fault so I just learned how to avoid those situations. Example: One day it was raining and he called me asking if I could pick him up from work. (he’s a bicycle commuter) I asked him if there was any chance he was getting off early. He said no. I purposely worked late so I wouldn’t just be sitting there in his work parking lot for at least half an hour waiting for him. He gets off at 5:00. I got there at 4:59 and he was standing there pissed as hell. I said I was just in time why was he mad? He got off early. Why didn’t he tell me when I had asked if there was a chance of it? It’s too noisy in his workplace and he didn’t hear me. Why didn’t he just go home? Because he didn’t want me to come there and not know where he was. (I could have figured it out) Then instead of coming with me he hopped on his bike and rode home and wouldn’t talk to me for several hours after we got home. Lesson learned. Show up early. This fight would be avoided in the future.

    Although he was very controlling as in when I ate. In the beginning wanting to give me numerous kisses during dinner no matter how starving I was and just wanting to eat. To, oh let’s have a beer, or two…..or his friends were over frequently and it was rude to eat dinner in front of them. I asked repeatedly why we couldn’t just invite them. Sometimes they would even bring burgers with them and would eat in front of me while I was starving and heaven forbid I get a grouchy face about it. Or controlling when I went to bed by saying he loved me so much, just stay up with me. Or not being able to have friends or family visit because he had extreme social anxiety. Which I never saw this anxiety with his friends or when we went out.

    A little over two years ago I had the strongest gut feeling that there was someone else. I couldn’t believe it because we had such a dream life together. I asked him about it and he simply said, there’s no one else and walked away.

    But the feeling persisted and only got stronger. At this time items around the house started to disappear. He would see me frantically searching and then two days later whatever it was would show up exactly where I had looked for it. I told him multiple times that I felt like I was going crazy. Then personal items of mine started to disappear and stay gone. Things like my fake eyelashes and my diary. He said we had a burglar. A burglar that was coming in every week or so and not taking anything of value so we wouldn’t call the police.

    He always had excuses for every weird thing I found. What looks like a smear of lipstick, which I don’t wear, on the blanket. It was the dogs. Circles of blood on the sheets two months in a row, 28 day apart, when I was not on my period. He had cuts on his hands. Him smelling of perfume when he got home. The regional manager was there and she wears a lot of perfume, it must have rubbed off. I talked to our snoopy neighbor and he told me that women did come to my house after I left for work. The neighbor is lying to break us up so he can have me for myself. On and on like that. Nothing huge but weird things plus my gut was simply screaming at me. We had many fights about this because I started flat out accusing him. He would say I was effing crazy. I kept all of this to myself for about a year then started talking to my friends. They also said I was crazy. He’s too nice. He would never do such a thing.

    Last February was the first time I tried to break up with him. He went into hysterics. Called his dad that lives about 45 minutes away. His dad came and said, my son is not a liar, my son is not a liar. After sitting awkwardly for about three hours I asked if he would just go spend the night with his parents so I could have some alone time. He burst into sobbing, gathered his things and with a yell of f you f you stormed out the door.

    Then he came back the next day saying we can still save the weekend let’s just have a nice weekend together. And so it went. Periodically I would tell him I was miserable and wanted him to move out and he would say there is no reason for us to break up because the only reason would be because you think I am cheating and I am not. I would beg him to leave. It was super hard every time. I would do it in person or write him letters. He would read the letters and say, is this what you really want? And make me repeat yes, yes, louder and louder until I would burst into tears telling him I don’t know!

    I finally told my mom and she drove out from two states away to serve him with an eviction notice which I was too scared to do. That was the end of last September. Long story short he did move out. We kept seeing each other on a regular basis. It was so hard for me to let go and he was always pushing it. Then I would become determined and not communicate for a few days and the days between when I would see him would become two weeks at a time but we would still see each other. I was stuck in limbo of not being able to let it go.

    Then Jerry put up the fake ad. His initial response was that he was flattered and also recently single. I thought no big deal. I have told him to get another girlfriend and leave me alone. He actually told me about this email girl and said he had told her he was flattered but working things out with me. Then we started spending more time together again. He would ask me to marry him each time. But he was also emailing “the girl” at the same time. He sent an email telling about himself and it was the strangest thing. He completely stole my identity. All the things that are my favorites were now his to a stranger. Last Friday morning I saw him. We had sex. He asked me multiple times to let him come home and marry him. He was sick of limbo. He wanted to come home or at least have me make a firm decision on what we were doing. I told him I would give him an answer by the end of the day. Meanwhile “the girl” emailed him that afternoon and I knew he would be dying to answer her. I went to his house after work and told him, I love you but I don’t trust you and I want this to be over. He burst into tears. Telling me to leave because it hurt too much too look at me. On my way home he emailed the girl saying how over me he is and she seems cool, etc. I texted him asking if he was going to hook up with the email girl and he said no and that if he met someone he would let me know out of respect for him.

    So he was obviously busted. Finally. I had tried to catch him for two years. I felt such relief! I wasn’t crazy! I was chanting I’m not crazy all weekend. I felt like a huge weight had been lifted.

    Then he texted saying he knew I was the email girl. It spun me around. If he knew I was the email girl then he knew he was busted. What game was he playing? What does he really know? What does he know that I know? It was always a game like that with us.

    He continued to text me. I mostly ignored him. Wednesday he asked if I was certain about it being over and I told him yes. He sent a slew of awful messages saying how effed up I am and this is all my fault, etc. I asked him to forward me the emails from him and the girl and at first he refused saying that showed a lack of trust. Then later he said he couldn’t because he deleted them all.

    After work he was still texting me with either, I effing hate you to I love you let me come home. During all these texts he emailed the girl telling her that he deleted my number, it’s over with me.

    I know this is long but this is actually the short version. I know that I cannot see him again. I know he is a poisonous liar. But I still just can’t even believe it. I have had as much proof as I would ever likely get, thanks to Jerry, because he is super smart and I tried to catch him myself for two years to no avail.

    I miss him so much. It’s all so stupid. I don’t understand how I can be so addicted to someone that is using me. Other than it never seems to sink in that he doesn’t actually love me and our entire relationship was a fantasy. Jerry thinks I am playing with fire to not block his number. I had him blocked at one time and mostly I don’t answer but sometimes he sucks me in and I can’t seem to make myself sever that last tie.

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  8. Jerry, thank you for your kind words I am glad to be of help. To answer your question, it took me a long time BUT I stayed in contact with my ex for well over a year after we split and he popped back into my life a couple of times and always set me back. Once I went no contact it became much easier. And that is the thing with M,, she is wanting to ask questions (totally normal) which is totally unproductive and will not get her any closer to healed. You are right, one question leads to another and every one of them leads to another lie from the N or to the N blaming her for whatever hurt he caused her. She MUST accept that she is not going to get a straight answer from him so why ask?
    She is still expecting him to fix her, that if she gets answers she will be able to accept everything and not be hurting and able to move on. It doesn’t work that way with a narcissist. Even IF he did say it was all his fault and he is so sorry, she might feel better for a day or a few hours but after a while she would be right back where she is because “sorry” just doesn’t cut it when it comes to a narcissist.
    I remember something I saw a long time ago

    “Throw a plate on the floor
    Done
    Did it break?
    Yes
    Say you are sorry to the plate
    I am sorry
    Did it go back together?
    No
    Understand?”

    I used to think I needed to get answers from James, but then one day I thought to myself “what would make me feel better? what could he say that would make the pain stop?”
    If he apologized I wouldn’t believe him because he had apologized so many times before and never meant it.
    If he took the blame and really meant it (how I would know that I don’t know but just saying) then it would show he had changed and now he was with some other woman. I didn’t need to know that.
    I knew more than likely he would just blame me and I knew that certainly didn’t help me
    What did I have to say that I hadn’t said a hundred times before? nothing. and if I said it all again he would do what he always did, roll his eyes and say “This again??! You have to bring up the past again and again. THIS is why we aren’t together. You can never let things go.”
    Did I really want all the sordid details of his infidelity? how was that going to make me feel better? What I did know hurt bad enough, it was over, why dig deeper, so I could hurt MORE. rip open wounds that were starting to heal? NO!

    So I didn’t ask the questions, I didn’t say what I needed to say but had said so many times before.

    If she waits the feeling to contact him will pass, but if she makes contact she is continuing to subject herself to his abuse. That is the truth. I knew that if I contacted him to ask a question I had to admit to myself and everyone who knew me that I subjected myself to his abuse, I could no longer blame him for being an asshole. This time it would be squarely on my shoulders if he hurt me.

    Healing will come from within, the person who broke you can not put you back together. That doesn’t even make sense. Why would he give you that when his whole goal was to destroy you and he got what he wanted, now you are going to trust him to be honest and have your best interests at heart, he is all of a sudden going to be honest and caring? Unless his fairy God Mother twanged him in the middle of the night it just ain’t going to happen.

    M has to do an honest and realistic analysis of herself. Those things that she keeps hearing in her head that make her feel that she is not valuable, deserves abuse, isn’t good enough, that keep her looking for his approval; she needs to address them. I don’t know what they are, only she does, but that is why I put the personality tests up the other day, so people can read about themselves and see themselves honestly and know that they are not flawed, they are normal, they have a type of personality and traits that go with that personality. I was always called too sensitive my whole life so when James said I was too sensitive I felt I was wrong to feel the way I did. I am NOT flawed for being a sensitive person, accepting that has made my life so much better. I can admit I am sensitive, I can now look at what I am feeling and analyze it and come to a conclusion about whether I am being too sensitive or justified in my reaction to something.
    She needs to get to know herself intimately and either accept her traits or change them. I bet she doesn’t change many of them because there is nothing wrong with her that she can’t modify if she wants to.

    Let me give this example: I was anorexic all through my late teens and twenties. Finally in my 30’s I drop kicked my scale out the back door and joined a gym. It took me years to get comfortable about not knowing my weight everyday. I always felt fat, I looked in the mirror and saw fat, even when I was 115 lbs and skin and skin and bones. I knew my mind was playing tricks on me and I had to work hard at not believing what my mind was telling me. I would see a pic of myself and think “Gee I don’t look fat at all” (sometimes I didn’t even recognize myself) so I knew in my logical and rational mind that I my mind was lying to me. I had it drummed into my head that I was fat but when I look at pics I NEVER was. My mom was always dieting and putting me on a diet when I was growing up because she wanted company to diet with, not because I was fat.
    To this day I look in the mirror and think I could lose a few pounds but I don’t obsess about my weight any more and I never weigh myself. I am supposed to weigh myself daily because of my heart, (with heart failure a sudden gain in weight means your heart is failing) I can’t do it. I am so afraid that if I start weighing myself again I will revert back to being obsessed about my weight and I can’t take that chance. I know that if I weigh one day 140 and the next I am 142 I am going to be upset, so I just don’t go there. Why would I take that chance?
    Same thing as some times even now I will have a thought about James and maybe it was my fault. It doesn’t happen often and it doesn’t last because I have been away for almost 5 years and I have done a lot of self counseling and I know it is just my mind playing tricks on me. If I went to talk to him now I would be setting myself up to fall back into my old ways. Why would I want to do that? There are things I would like answers to, do I think he would be honest, no, would it make my life better in anyway to know the answers, no; so why would I go there?
    I hope that helps

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  9. Dear Carrie,
    I need your advice again!! Sorry, I can’t work out how to post on the site.
    I’ve got this creepy co worker who won’t leave me alone. She is female as am I. I have known her for years- we both work in the same field. I work abroad for a company. She was also freelancing for this company and got herself promoted above me and has since tried to make my life hell, undermining, harassing, staring, making crass comments and trying to humiliate me. She has my boss under her thumb so it is quite difficult to complain although my boss has apparently spoken to her about her behaviour towards me on one occasion. With all of this, she wants me to her friend, take her out with me when I am in the office and basically pander to her which I am refusing to do. She tries to find out about my private life and anyone I am friends with, she immediately befriends and encroaches on. She has recently got remarried and calmed down for a time but now seems as bad as ever/ I presume she has got bored with her new husband. She comes into the office periodically so I do have a respite but she sits opposite me and stares at me, follows me around the office and generally tries to harrass me all day. She seems pretty fixated with me and it creeps me out. She is of course charming with everyone else and they all think she is fine and that I should just deal with it. To me it feels like being stalked. I lost my cool in the end and spoke frankly to my boss about her. My boss has been monitoring the situation and it has improved but she is obviously undermining and gossiping behind my back and has stressed me out completely. What can I do about her other than move on which is obviously her intention here?
    Many thanks for your advice.

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  10. Bridget, you did fine commenting but if you go to the very bottom of the comments there is a Line that says, “Don’t be shy, leave your comment and a space below that to comment. There is also a place to tick if you want to be notified of any new comments or posts.
    For whatever reason she is fixated on you which is really creepy and has to make a person wonder what she is up to. Who knows why these people pick who they do but try to not let her get to you. They do thrive on drama and trauma and if she thinks she is getting to you it will only encourage her. She is probably jealous of you for whatever reason. Maybe she feels you are popular in the office and wants to be also and thinks you will pave the way for her. I don’t know.
    Most normal people will take the hint that someone doesn’t like them and leave them alone.

    Here is what I would do; I would keep my personal life very personal, with everyone at work, I wouldn’t discuss her or anyone else. Keep any talk about what you did on the weekend to very general chit chat and don’t share anything at work at all. And then I would be sickening sweet to her, I would go out of my way to ask her how her weekend was, turn it back on her, kill her with kindness so she has nothing to bitch about with you. I would not ask her to join you at lunch or after work or anything like that but I would not try to avoid her at work either or complain any more to the boss. Snide comments, let them wash off you like water off a duck, take it as jealousy and laugh. Knowing you are so much better than her.
    Right now from the sounds of it she is getting what she wants, you are getting flustered and uncomfortable, she is playing innocent and everyone is starting to think you are the one with the problem. The boss is going to get sick of monitoring things, this is an office and not a kindergarten and the one doing the complaining is going to get negative attention. I am not saying you don’t have reason to be uncomfortable I am just saying I can see how this is going to play out.

    it is up to you if you can’t handle it and move on but i don’t think that is necessary if you just don’t take the bait. Know what she is doing and refuse to play the game with her. She is a bully and she is getting payoff from it. If you don’t react there is no payoff.

    Years ago I worked with a woman who back stabbed me every chance she got but was super sweet to my face. It got back to me what she was saying and I never let on I knew then one day we ended up alone in the computer room (back in the day when the computer needed a whole room) I closed the door and backed her into a corner. I very calmly and quietly said, “I know what you are saying behind my back.” she started to deny it and I interrupted her. “Like I said, I know what you have been saying behind my back and I wanted you to know I know.” and i walked away and left her standing there with her mouth open. I then went into the boss’s office that this woman always went in and closed the door and talked to. (if you follow me) and I stood at the doorway, when the boss asked me what I wanted I turned around and said, “Can you tell me if I have any knives in my back?” and she got all flustered and said “no why?” and I said, “Because I would hope you would talk to me directly if there is a problem and not talk behind my back. I just wanted us to be on the same page.” and I walked out of her office and that was it. I went back to work and never treated anyone any differently. I don’t know if they stopped talking behind my back but I felt better just speaking my mind and letting them know I knew.

    it doesn’t have to be a big show down and doesn’t have to involved the whole office, in fact it is better if it doesn’t because if she tells people you said anything to her you can just deny it. Play the game like they do, if she tells lies about you, or even truths just deny deny deny. That is the thing, we think we are powerless because we are honest and they are evil but we don’t have to be so damned honest all the time and we don’t have to be an open book.
    hope that helps
    hugs

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  11. Hi M,

    Thanks for sharing. I have a hard time understanding narcs as well because it disgusts me so much. They don’t operate with ‘normal’ human behavior or emotion so it’s very difficult to grasp. However, what you described is exactly what most all here have gone through so you’re definitely not crazy or alone. The abuse is so terrible it’s hard to know up from down anymore. It always starts out as a wonderful fantasy, but once they have you hooked the what is called “crazy making” begins. A narc can’t stand intimacy because they lack emotion, and they hate you for what they can’t have so the switch flips so to speak. It’s very difficult to understand and you never fully will so I stopped trying. I know all I need to know and it helped me break free. You’re coming out of what is called the “FOG” so it is normal what you’re experiencing. Please look this term up so that you can find some relief to start thinking clearly again.

    The missing and mysteriously returning, and stolen stuff is called “ambient abuse” (gaslighting). It’s a very common behavior with narcs. They are pathological liars and want you to think you’re going crazy so they can control you more. This is what led me to do research, this website, and to helped me to finally put the pieces together. It was ugly and scarey but gave me my sense of sanity back. I was like you, I had a “gut feeling” something was up, but I had no tangible proof so gave her the benefit of doubt. I found out on my own accord through months of investigation that she was having sex with at least 3 other men. I was appalled to say the least. I will NEVER not trust my instincts again, and highly recommend no one else does either. Narcs are notorious serial cheaters. They “mirror” everything we want in the beginning so he’s “grooming” his next victim through the ad that was placed. They are identity thieves, because the lack one, so this is also very common. I’m so glad you had Jerry to help you catch him because you might still be suckered in his web of lies and abuse.

    I’m so happy to hear you’ve broken free. My best advice for you is to have NO contact. It is the ONLY way you will heal from this. Otherwise the crazy making, abuse, torment and hell will never end!! This isn’t just my own personal advice. It’s the advice of EVERY website I’ve researched and read including this one. I also read on numerous websites (including this one) the abuse will get far worse next time. I don’t want to scare you, but these people are extremely dangerous and incapable of change. It’s hard to grasp, but they lack guilt, remorse, empathy and conscience.

    It took me awhile but I missed her in the first stages like you do. This is also completely normal. I think you want the person you fell in love with back like I think most do in some degree. But that person was never there to begin with which is an extremely difficult and sad process. What helped me get through it was realizing that I was in love with just a dream, and sympathy that she is incurable from the lack of empathy or love. Please keep coming back here M every time you feel weak and the urge to contact him. ‘Vomit’ out all the poison and toxins and I promise it will get easier. People here like Carrie will understand what you’re going through so that you don’t think you’re crazy or alone. I’m very glad you have Jerry in your corner. He sounds like a very intelligent, caring and good man. Please be safe and know you will get through this day by day, sometimes hour by hour, week by week, and then month by month until you’re completely free! You deserve it M, so give this gift to yourself.

    (((Holy Hugs)))

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  12. M, thanks for your honesty. No worries about the length of your comment. Believe me you are normal, I felt exactly the same way as you, as most victims of an N. I noticed you did the same thing I and most victims do; in the beginning of your comment you expounded on how perfect the two of you were, two peas in a pod, as a way of showing why you were so in love and wanted to believe him. It was not just some guy, it was not some ordinary love, this was your soul mate, it was almost supernatural. I read about narcissists years before I left James, I read the traits and thought, yeah he could have the traits but these women don’t know what he and I have. “James and I have something people just don’t find everyday, in a life time!” I KNEW he loved me, we had such a connection. Almost all victims have the exact same thing to say.
    Everything you said rings true to me and I am sure 95% of everyone else here who reads it.
    I busted James so many times, and I would be hurt but relieved also to validated, this time he couldn’t talk his way out of it, this time I had him, I had proof, hard facts, pictures, or letters in his own writing, my God I would have him so busted and for a day or two I would feel better, finally I had the truth. But within a day or two he would have me doubting myself or I would find myself begging him to come back to me and I was sorry for something!? It was bizarre how he could twist things and turn things back on me, make the most bizarre circumstances sound feasible and logic sound crazy.
    I would kick him out and he would come home later and pretend like nothing happened, we would have a horrible fight and an hour later he would act like every thing was fine. Or I would think everything was great and come home to find out he had moved out. My God he told me he had been given 6b months to live and I was the only woman he could ever love and the sob was living with 2 other women alternately depending on who was angry with him that day. I thought it was impossible for him to tell two women that he loved them at the same time and I found out that he had told 6 women in 1 year that he loved them and they were the love of his life.
    Why do you still love him? Because contrary to what makes sense; that we will eventually collect enough info and get hurt enough that we will be able to walk away and not love him any more, it doesn’t work that way. What actually happens, is the more we invest the harder we hang on. By invest I mean, we catch him, we forgive him (giving of ourselves) and take him back, we compromise our instincts (giving up part of ourselves), we accept treatment we know we shouldn’t (we give away our self respect), we let them move in again (we put the past behind us and try again) We go against what friends and family think we should do (we give away our support system) We believe his lies even tell ourselves lies (we give away our trust in ourselves) We give up our power and hand it all to him, we say, “I am weak, I cannot fight this love, I need him to feel good about myself, I need him to make it all ok because I have given him every single thing that makes me who I am. I have invested simply everything I have, it has to work out, I have to have my happy ending or else I invested in nothing………not just nothing, but I invested everything I am in a facade, a dream, an asshole. That is very hard to accept. If we admit what they are we have to admit we got duped, we were sucked in in the biggest way possible, we have to admit that there are horrible, vile, evil people out there who really don’t give two shits about anyone but themselves. Everything I loved about him was a lie.
    As long as you have contact with him you keep the hope alive that somehow you are wrong, you cling to the hope that a miracle is going to happen and you will wake up and it will all be a bad dream. And as long as he has any tiny opening he will do whatever he can to instill doubt and confusion in your mind. He will bombard you with love, then guilt you for awhile, then baffle you with bull shit and smoke and mirrors until you just give up in total exhaustion and throw your hands up and say, “I can’t fight it, I give up.” The only way to move on, to start to heal is to have no contact, to cut the ties. I wish it wasn’t true but it is. I couldn’t do it for almost a year after we had split. He was living with another woman and I still could not cut him out completely, it was like my life line but I will tell you that the minute I did, I started to finally heal. Because every communication I had with him set me back. Once you no longer talk to him any healing you do is a step forward but the minute you talk to him again you go right back to square one again.

    I hadn’t talked to James for more than a year and he showed up out of the blue where I did business, one hour of talking to him and I was a basket case again.

    It is totally up to you, I know it is hard, I could handle me not contacting him the problem was I wanted him to have access to contact me if he wanted. That is the true of it. I wanted to leave that door open in case he changed. But he never will and it keeps you living on hope and telling yourself lies. It is going to hurt, there is no two ways around it. But the healing will come a lot faster when you cut him out of your life.

    As for taking on your personality, lol I had to laugh when I read that because that is exactly what James did to me also. It was like he stole my whole life and left me a shell of a person. He talked like I would talk, his morals were my morals, his values were mine, he talked like he was shocked I would ever think he would break the law or lie. Wjo did he think he was talking to? I knew him better than anyone. He told everyone and his new woman that I did to him what he had done to me!! They went on the vacation I always wanted to take, everything I had wanted him to do for me he did with her. They set things up to be the most painful for the victim as it can be. I realized after James and I split that his ex hated that he was a trucker, he screwed around the whole time they were together so with me he quit trucking and pretended to give me everything she had wanted, they had been together 10 years and once we made it to the 10 year mark he went back to trucking. He was so happy that she had really hated me because we had lasted longer than they had. How sick is that? he would stay with me just to make her feel it was all her fault he screwed around.
    My ex went for dinner with me one night I caught him with another woman the next day and that night he moved in with another woman. Then he got engaged to that woman and showed up a week later professing his undying love for me. They are assholes, M.
    Good luck and please do not hesitate to comment as long as you like we are here if you need an ear or support. or a shot of reality!
    Hugs

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  13. M, I agree with you. I am still processing the fact there are people who are not serial killers, but are just as heartless. I never would have imagined there existed such people until this happened to me. But as I look back at our relationship, and as Carrie put it in one of her posts, see the whole thing through a different set of eyes, there is no denying they exist. It is heart-wrenching and life-shattering. I look at everyone suspiciously now and I hate it! Stay strong!

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  14. Carrie and Healing- It helps more than I can describe to hear you both saying the same things I’m offering to M in my own support of her. I know how old it gets sounding like a stuck record from one person but when those of you who have been through the trenches with a narc sound off in unison like this, it helps M, offers her the hands on wisdom of those who have been in her shoes. Though I wish she had found this place sooner, I’m also familiar with the concept, it takes what it takes to reach a point where help is sought then found. M has progressed from a frozen in place, fearful shell of a woman to where she is now. She hates change and just wants to live a simple life with people who care about and love her in her circle. It isn’t like she’s an impossible dreamer or anything. She’s simply a genuinely good woman with a tender heart, a good mind with a good dose of adorability. At least that’s my obviously biased opinion of her. She’s one of the best women I’ve ever met or had a chance to know as I do now.

    I know my own involvement with her has been running a parallel course to her moods and circumstance of her relationship with this cretin. As much as it hurt to walk away the first time, I look at it now as a chance to get my feelings for her placed where they weren’t a source of guilt for her and to regain some balance for myself. That was a biggy in our previous dynamic. Shortly after being in touch this ‘second time around’, she gave me the link to this place. A whole universe of information and anecdotal affirmation that she wasn’t crazy, just caught up in a crazy situation opened up to me. I knew all along she wasn’t crazy but she couldn’t seem to shake the idea on her own. And I couldn’t know the full extent of her circumstance back then either. It was just, ahem, too crazy.

    She hates that word after being subjected to his crazy inducing abuse and hearing that same word used to describe her from his asshole buddy who was often in her home but was someone she wouldn’t ordinarily give the time of day to. Her narc had found his sugar momma and had no regard for her or her feelings but he sure liked having a home to live in where he could manage every little detail of her life and sneak women into her bed after she went to work. Reading all the accounts of others and recognizing all the similarities to her own situation has been huge in helping her accept she’s not crazy. My ad helped confirm it and raise enough hard evidence to stop the spin long enough to let her jump off his merry-go-round. Her most recent challenge has been to sever all contact. She blocked him from her phone. But I’m afraid she’ll eventually have to bite the bullet and change her number.

    I actually researched if emotional and psychological abuse was a criminal activity and found nothing to help the victim. The only thing remotely close are laws against harassment. She still hasn’t done it at my urging but if a person states in document form (email, text), “Leave me alone and never contact me again”, any later contact by the narc falls under the legal definition of harassment. This can be used to receive a restraining order should one ever become necessary. Where we are, the first offense is a misdemeanor, the second time on, a felony. Her narc had a run in with the law several years ago so this may be yet another tool she could use. But I would be holding out for a pipe dream to think she’ll take this step with her narc. Nonetheless, I was appalled that our legal system blatantly ignores this very real, very destructive abuse. I realize proving the abuse in court would be impossible so maybe that’s why this falls in the cracks. But the bottom line is it’s wrong. Very wrong that someone can decimate another person’s life with legal impunity. My own way of dealing with him would find me going to prison and I’m not going there. That doesn’t seem a good alternative to the life I have now. But knowing this tidbit of legalese may help someone else do their own research into local law and put yet another barrier between them and their narc.

    We’re in for a long haul in her healing. I know and accept this. This place gives me hope. Yesterday gives me hope in how she’s approaching this now. We talked (actually had a spat) last night which was resolved by both of us about how much she has felt herself changing. She even brought me ice cream as a peace offering along with a hug when we reached the end of it. That’s the kind of woman she is and to think her life was being tortured by that animal (sorry animals) makes me livid. The boundaries between M and me are healthy and helpful while she negotiates her own path. But the fact is, she is worth the energy, time, and emotional investment I’m offering her. This place is among the top reasons she is stepping forward into recovery rather than sinking deeper into the nightmare. Again, thank you for being here for us.

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  15. Jerry, you are more than welcome. I am truly happy to be able to help you guys. I have worked with some women I thought would never be able to let go, that they were doomed to be the N’s punching bag forever but they end up being the strongest women when they finally do let go and they have the most positive revelation and inner peace when they do.
    Hugs to you both

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  16. Thanks for getting back to me about my question, Carrie. M and I have been back and forth about her putting blocks on his phone number and email address so she doesn’t have to hear more from him. She’s reached the point where she has him blocked on both now. It’s still a day by day proposition to keep him blocked but she’s hanging in there and white knuckling through her tough times and texting me about it as it happens. We’re both trying to get an arsenal of techniques together for her to resort to in her tough moments. Everything from breathing exercises and meditation to the D letters (our fictional character) to reading through your blog are all now things she has at her disposal. We spend time together and I’m trying to make it a safe haven escape from her reality when she visits me. Our latest topic of the day is her propensity to feel guilt regardless whether it’s deserved or not which 99 times out of 100 is totally undeserved.

    She has a knee jerk response to whatever she feels she isn’t doing right which immerses her in guilt. Personally, I think it’s one of those things he planted in her head a long, long time ago to gain power and control over her. I’m pointing out the reasons she has nothing to feel guilty about but we all know in matters of the heart, rational thought rarely makes much difference. Nonetheless, when she says she feels guilty, I ask her to look at exactly why she feels compelled to indulge in it. She’s looking at it which is all I can ask of her. But it’s deeply seeded in her psyche and one I suspect we’ll contend with for quite awhile. Anyway, she probably wouldn’t admit it herself but I think she’s making progress. We have an agreement that she’ll tell me if she wants to remove the blocks so I’m hoping she’ll live up to our agreement. At least if she tells me, I have a moment in which I can try to talk her through the moment. But if she can hang on a little longer, he may stop his efforts at contacting her since she isn’t responding to any of what he’s sending to her. It’s literally a classic case of what she doesn’t know can’t hurt her.

    She’s spending time at her home doing yard work and getting caught up on work she neglected during the throes of her depression. She’s eating and said this morning that she slept through the night last night but had a dream of being kidnapped and tortured. I’m guessing her body and mind are expelling some of the toxins from her N which are showing up as these dreams. There’s just so much to deal with on so many psychological and emotional fronts but she’s managing and like I said, making headway. I’m really, really proud of her!

    Again, thanks for this place. Each of us reach out to serve our individual needs and the voice of the whole is helping each of us continue to put one foot in front of the other in this long road of healing. Keep up the good work.

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  17. Carrie, I needed to see everything you wrote to M. Thank you. Not only can I not seem to stop questioning everything, but I spend most waking hours thinking of clever and often mean things I should’ve said or would like to say in self-defense. It makes me feel like I’m getting some power back I guess, but it’s so unproductive!!

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  18. Hi Carrie
    I loved your comment. It was inspiring. I particularly loved the hard questions to yourself and your answers to them. And the plate analogy simple and easy to cognitively process because as you know after leaving an abusive narc your capacity to understand is so limited due to the gaslighting stonewalling secretiveness ect all by the person you love and wanted to make happy. I also could not get rid of my exnarc out of my house. One example went like this. After spending the whole night out with a male and female friend and calling me at 3am to pick him up and take him and his female friend home I refused and said get a taxi (first I said yes I would come get him then he added I had to take her home who lived about 30mis away then I said no. I must have been starting to set boundaries up) then he comes home at about 9 am ( she got someone to drive him home with her in the car) he comes inside and say “I want to breakup” I said “fine I love you and want you to be happy” so what does he do He Goes TO BED and sleeps!!!! This was just one example of many over the 3 years of trying to get him out. The only way I got him out was via an unplanned intervention with his friends. They were over one night and he was doing his lying manipulation stuff and I called him on it. It was about the fact that he had no money ever. Anyway to prove himself he stupidly got an unopened payslip and gave it to his friend to open and after he gave it to his friend he said I shouldn’t be giving you that-that’s the thing about Narcs they are so in need to be right it becomes an impulsive behaviour- anyway his friend opened the payslip and boom he had earned 9000 yes nine thousand in two weeks. I flipped went historical started crying and said I don’t want to be with you I can’t do this anymore. And with that his friend told him to pack his bag his taking him home. And that was that. That was my painful closure. This was 14 months ago and he is still in my life despite me going full metal no contact I even changed my phone number. How is he still in my life -through my 25 year old son. Even yesterday my son comes over and starts urging with me about him because my daughter was bad mouthing the exnarc awhile ago and he starts yelling and throwing his mobile phone. And storms off -this is what my son said to me about his anger outburst- Mum you have to understand that I am not going to sit here and listen to someone bad month my friend (the ex narc) I could not believe what I was hearing. I said ” your friend is a guy who used me lied to me treated me like shit abused me. I will talk about anyone I want and how they treated me. Son said “well it’s your fault were friends because you introduced me to him.” With that I went outside to breath and said “you are responsible for your own choices you are not the victim here”. Then I used all my knowledge I had gained over the 14 months of recovering from a Narc relationship and that was They will turn your friends and family against you if you leave them. So I just took it for what it was just another form of manipulation by the exnarc playing out in real life. What inspired me the most about your life story is your strength and how you overcome many obstacles in your life. It resonated with me as I was sexually abused by my dad emotionally psychologically and physically abused by my mum and step dad for years (who curiously I have no contact with them after I broke up with the exnarc as I saw their abusive behaviour towards me much clearer after that and I just could not psychologically or physically allow anyone to abuse me anymore) Your story gives me hope because you appear to have reached a stage in your recovery thats about empowering your self. After I ended the relationship (well 5 mths later because I spent every weekend in bed) I went to therapy, mediation, psychics anywhere I thought could help me heal from my life time of trauma. And I still feel broken. I still think I am never going to be over the pain. But your words gave me hope that someday even 5 years from now I will be in a more emotionally stable space. I wont be my old self but thank goodness for that I never want to be that vulnerable person again but I will be content and wiser.

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  19. Tryan, I am so glad you are getting some benefit from my writings. That in itself has been very healing; the fact that by sharing my experiences I am helping people. It turns the worst experience of my life into one of the most positive.
    It has taken me almost 5 years to get here and I have a ways to go yet. But that is the whole thing, we never stop growing and learning about ourselves, improving. Or that is the way it should be.
    You sound like you have your head on right and on the right path. it gets easier and better as time goes on. I am sorry your ex has gotten to your son, I am sure he is dong everything he can to win your son over right now just to get to you. His mask will drop with your son also with time,
    Welcome to the site.
    Hugs

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