Support Forum

 

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To all new visitors! Welcome!!
You have found a great group of supportive people who have all been through what you are going through and understand completely the devastation you are feeling.
You are NOT crazy and you are not to blame, you are in a relationship or just left a relationship with a narcissist/psychopath. You are not alone. Come as often as you like to vent, ask questions, cry, and get support and encouragement.
All I ask is that everyone is respectful of each other’s opinions and understands that most everyone here are at a heightened emotional state. While with the narcissist the victim lived with constant trauma, drama and were told constantly that they were wrong to feel what they were feeling and that they were flawed in some way; it makes sense they are very sensitive to criticism. 
Opinions are just that, if someone has a different opinion than you it doesn’t mean someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong. Everyone is entitled to voice an opinion.
I may have an opinion you don’t agree with and I am more than willing to back up whatever I say, so feel free to question me and I will explain why I feel the way I do. Not to convince you I am right but to explain why I feel the way I do and maybe I will give you some information you didn’t know before. Or maybe you will enlighten me. An exchange of ideas is healthy and how we learn. 
Just remember, narcissists are basically all the same but the victims are as different as people can be, we all have our own history and frame of reference. Please respect that!
Hugs
Carrie

5,443 thoughts on “Support Forum

    1. velocity girl

      hello. i am not sure how to create a new post here but feel i need some support. the ture love of my life soulmate told me recently the most absurd hurtful lie. we were trying once again to rekindle our relationship and it was going along okay until all of a sudden he told me he had a new girlfriend. met her by the river for the first time and within 3 hours she became his girl. now of course i did not believe this but he would not let it go for days. then he calls me and says it was a lie he made up to get rid of me…wow. i have felt so many emotions and have written him the most angry things (we currently have/had a long distance relationship though for a year and a half we were more physically together). it just hurts so very much. i do not have any contact with him a anymore…but it just hurts so much..trying to figure out how to move past this. i feel now like everything he ever said to me ~ even the wonderful things were lies…my heart is so broken.,

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        1. Carrie Reimer Post author

          Velocity Girl, Welcome! Hugs! You posted just fine. If you want notification of new posts just click on the button that says “Follow” in the sidebar on the right about 1/2 way down; you will enter your email address and get email notification every time I do a new post. On individual posts if you want to be notified of new comments when you comment on a blog post like you just did, in the bottom left corner is a place to tick if you want to be notified of any new comments.

          I know you are in a lot of pain right now and it is hard to accept that he is not the man you thought he was but you are doing the EXACT right thing by not having contact with him. It is imperative to your healing to not have any contact with him. If you give him an inch he will take a mile and do everything he can to instill doubt in your mind and heart and destroy your self confidence.

          You will survive this, and we are here to help any way we can. Need a shoulder to cry on? or answers, I will try to answer as honestly as I can and if I don’t know something I will find out or someone else will possibly know. We have all been there or know someone who has and we understand the confusion and heart break you are feeling.

          You are not alone. Hugs
          Carrie

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  1. clarissa

    HI, im clarissa , i had been in a relationship with a narcissitic verbually abusive person for three years.. at first everything started out great. he was a very vibrant, but shy and a thoughtful person. yet i started to feel something was off, so i had logged into his facebook to discover that he was messaging a girl ,saying inappropriate things to her and i was devestated, i asked him why, he said he didnt really have any feelings for her, he was just trying to get some weed out of her because he knew she grew it , …foolishly , i forgave him but still suffered with hurt, after that he became impatient, mean and angry….long story short, i had ended up emotionally cheating with my ex boyfriend at the time, and i had lied to my boyfriend at the time and got caught. i still wanted to remain friends with my ex , which my boyfriend didnt like, and after that our relationship went from bad to worse, he would call me all kinds of names emotional from B#### to stupid A## , humiliate me in public (screaming go get Fu****!), shove and push me, and told me to stfu. i spent months trying to talk to him , telling him that i deserved respect and i shouldnt be talked to like that or belitted ,everytime me and him got into an argument it would happen again and i would be the one chasing after him asking for us to work it out, he rarely apologized for what he did, he would say its because of you that i act this way and why do you have to keep dragging me down.. eventually he started to say he was unhappy and that he doesnt see it ever working out, i begged and pleaded and tried to speak with him to convince him to go to therapy with me. the last time i saw him we got into an explosive fight and he called me a m’f and a B****, i cried and slapped him because i did nothing wrong for him to talk like that. then we ended up crying together and i had give him the shoes he was suppose to wear on vday .. we talked and text for a couple of days , but then he became very distant and wouldnt call me and i wasent able to get ahold of him. then he tells me ” ive done you to wrong to let you be with me” . after that i found out he had a new girlfriend , after one week of not speaking to me . it hurt me so bad, i thought after everything i went through, all the emberassment, broken promises and unhappiness we would overcome it but he abruptly leaves me, and i feel out of energy, heartbroken,and depressed.

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    1. Carrie Reimer Post author

      Clarissa, what you are feeling is normal for a victim of an N, you will heal, it takes time, one week is not enough time to be away from him to think clearly please read more and learn that they never change, they can’t change. I am willing to bet he will be back and he is just punishing you right now. Take this time to educate yourself so you don’t go running back to him when he shows up all sorry or agrees to give you another chance. You can end up doing this another 10-20 years only to have the same result in the end. Cut your losses and go to contact, and start doing what you need to in order to heal and never put yourself through this type of relationship again.
      Come here as often as you need for support, we have all been there and there is life after the N but as long as you let him in your life he will do everything he can to destroy your happiness.
      hugs

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  2. Jerry

    I am sharing something that I’ll probably catch more than a little grief over but feel is worth consideration for the masses here. If you’ve followed our progression from not being in touch to my sending M the response my ad directed at her narc, you know we reestablished contact and have since been communicating every day. Starting at the end of January, M’s narc replied to the ad I placed so I wrote him back posing as a woman interested in him after noticing him at his job. Whenever he would respond, I immediately forwarded them to M’s email. Without going into great detail, she was afforded a fly on the wall view of what he was doing without her knowledge. For the longest time, she has been caught in his spin zone and unable to break free since I’ve known her this past year.

    About the third letter he responded to, the fictitious woman he was responding to (me) began questioning why he didn’t need to take time off from a relationship ending to heal. Before sending anything back to him, I always forwarded the draft to M in the event she wanted something changed or had another question. He said their relationship ended a couple years ago along with enough information M was familiar with that she knew wasn’t the real situation he was describing to this character I was creating for him. Long story short, he was lying to the new woman trying to ‘land her’ all the while texting M asking her to let him move back in and to marry him. That was when I let a few days go between answers to his letters causing him to wonder why she wasn’t writing back. He had strategically not answered some questions so my character, D answered she was still waiting for answers to her questions. He was getting pretty hot and bothered with the whole idea he had another one in the wings so his attention to M subsided a little but was still consistent with what he was saying before.

    When M was able to read what he was saying about her to D, she was getting answers to questions that had kept her in spin mode and unable to fully break away from him. She was witnessing his lies while he was still trying to keep her tied to him with his confusion tactics and blaming her for all their problems. Last week, M admitted how angry she was with him after the way he’s been playing both her and D. Last weekend was the first time in two years M actually enjoyed herself and ate well, slept, had an actual weekend without being frozen in her depression. She had never been able to be angry at him before these recent events. She has a new tool in her arsenal now. And it’s working to help her wrap her head around how over it is with him.

    Watching him from her distance as he mirrors D by picking up on her emotional state of getting hurt catching her ex cheating on her and presenting himself as a victim as well, taking all of M’s preferences for books, food, beer, activities, in essence stealing her attributes and presenting them as his own has been quite illuminating to M. The last time she saw him, she brought him coffee and he essentially kicked her out the door in anticipation of sending his letter to D. In the letter he mentioned he was having tea which D had mentioned was her preference when M had just delivered coffee to him just minutes before. M is seeing the whole act in its twisted reality as he directs his sick attention on another woman. And yes, there is an irony at work that he admits he’s becoming emotionally attracted to D who is actually a 56 year old guy who can write. At this point, D has served her purpose and is not writing to him any longer.

    I realize many will consider this toying with a rattlesnake. My attitude is desperate measures for desperate times. M is not buying into his pleas to come back home anymore and seems to be protecting herself from him. We’ve been spending some time together talking about it and just enjoying each others’ company. She knows and is embracing how she will never become involved with him again as she continues to distance herself through no contact and redirecting herself away from him. Both M and I are fully aware of what risks we’ve taken in going to these measures. However, the dramatic difference in M has been worth it. She commented in excitement that she wasn’t crazy after all. She’s believing her gut now and not taking on the guilt and baggage he piled on her throughout their relationship.

    In summary, I know I took a chance writing the ad and getting back in contact with M after about 4 months of being out of touch. This worked for M and she’s embarked on her healing journey away from her narc. I’m remaining in my support role and we’re becoming even better friends than I could have imagined. I just thought sharing this story might offer a glimmer of hope to some too caught up in their own hell that there are ways to leave that hell behind. No two are going to share the same path away from their narcs. This just happened to work for M. There’s still much work to be done by M because we both know I can’t save her but she’s now choosing her recovery rather than facing it without really wanting it. The difference now from two weeks ago is quite amazing.

    If you must, lambast away at me. My only defense is it worked…

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    1. healing

      Jerry,

      Thanks for the update! I was sincerely worried about you two. I am the first to commend you! You exposed the piece of crap for what he truly is. I’m pretty sure you won’t catch too much flack from others here. I believe you provided an excellent service for M to get off the crazy train with these monsters and back to a sense of sanity. I’m glad she’s at a place of no contact, and to hear you both are doing better. I’m also glad you both know better not to poke a stick at a rattlesnake lol anymore. Thank you for sharing and offering glimmers of hope for those who have newly separating from a narc. Please tell M to come in here anytime for support and encouragement.

      Warm Wishes!

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  3. M

    Thank you so much Healing and Carrie,

    Carrie, this blog as been more helpful to me than you can ever imagine. I felt so alone and so crazy for over two years. The world is a better place for you being in it.

    I hate to admit it but my relationship with my guy sounds like you and James. I used to tell him every day that I felt sorry for all the other girls because he was mine. What we had seemed so incredible, so magical. Sometimes I felt guilty that I had taken him off the market because I didn’t think that I was good enough for him.

    I totally understand how you could feel so good after busting him only to get caught up in his trap a few days later. After the neighbor told me other people come to the house after I left for work (people, not just one woman) I thought, this is proof. Of course when I told him he denied everything. Then when he started coming home late but was missing time on his paystubs, again I thought, here’s proof. He said he couldn’t remember if he had taken time off or not and always told me when he was coming home early. Things had gotten so ridiculous and I felt so crazy that I bought a tape recorder to record what he did in the house when I wasn’t there. At the time I thought, this is the craziest thing I have ever done. He drove me to do a lot of things that were not normal for me. So I recorded him for four days and then I just KNEW that he knew. I had it hidden behind the dryer, which you could see if you looked but who looks behind a dryer? On the fifth day he walks into the laundry room, says Godammit babe and walks out. Then I knew for sure he knew. The next time I tried, I put it in a different room and sure enough you hear him walking in there, picking it up, me asking what he is doing and him saying, oh just putting something away. I knew he knew but felt so crazy! I could not play these games with him so I told him that I knew he knew that I was recording him. He is a really good liar but this time he lied so poorly. He said, what? Recording? I had no idea. He looked so false and wasn’t even mad about it. You would think a normal person would say, okay, enough, we are done. So I still tried recording periodically. It was this horrible game we would play of pretending everything was fine, me trying to catch him simply so he would finally tell me the truth. It was tricky to guess which room they would be in and my luck was always bad. And or, he knew where I was hiding it and when. Twice I heard the front door, talking for about half an hour with laughter and drinks of water being gotten, then the sound of a woman having an orgasm. I told him of course and he said it was porn. Porn with half an hour of talking? Then the third time that I got kind of lucky, he left a trail of porn on the computer to cover anything I might hear. But I watched the porn and although some of it matched what was on the tape some of it was completely different. Plus there was 13 minutes of sex noises with ten minutes of porn history. Minutes, I know, but still. When I told him about this he just yelled over and over, Do you think I’m effing stupid? What did I say?

    Anyway, the point to all this admission of the crazy things I have done is I feel like I have had plenty of evidence of his lying and yet he was always able to spin me around. Even with the fake emails that Jerry was sending and his responses, I just can’t even believe this is the same man that I had that perfect bubble with.

    It is a huge, huge relief to know that I am not crazy. Jerry has really been there for me as has this blog. I know I need to block him. Jerry compared it to someone knocking over my bowl of cereal every morning and once I get all the pieces cleaned up and am feeling better, he comes and knocks my bowl over again. Even knowing he is such a liar, I still get sucked in.

    One other thing then I will stop rambling. One of the reasons I would deny he is a narcissist is because I was doing all the same nice things for him that he did for me and I am definitely not one. All feelings here. One day I realized…..of course I am doing all of these things because he is mirroring me! It was a big aha moment.

    It’s really hard but I am taking it moment by moment to stay away. And yes, I kept the phone line open, not to contact him, but in case he wants to contact me. Just like you did Carrie. I will get there. I have to. My life depends on it.

    Thank you again!

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    1. Carrie Reimer Post author

      M, you are more than welcome!! It is amazing how dysfunctional our lives become and it all is “normal” to us. I knew in my logical rational mind that it was crazy that I was living with a man I thought capable of killing me, who I knew tampered with my brake line etc. But it all was so bizarre, that’s what happens in the movies, not in real life. My saving grace was having his sister living with us the last few months, she was my “tape recorder”. If we both heard it and saw it then we knew we weren’t crazy. She said too, if she would have been alone with him she would have doubted herself. They are so convincing and so F’ing weird!
      being able to help others by sharing my own craziness and my mistakes makes everything I went through worthwhile. I always figure there is a lesson to be learned in every experience in life and nothing is a waste if you learn something and are able to help others. By sharing my experiences and helping others I have changed the worst thing that ever happened to me into the positive thing and if I could change the past I wouldn’t. I learned so much about myself and have found such inner peace because of it.
      it really is worth the journey when you get there. Honest!

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  4. Belinda

    I’m so very confused. I have been with my partner (M) for ten months. In this time he has managed to make all my family stay away from me (two adult children, both my parents), my 14 year old daughter has gone to live with my parents – because she’s “scared” of M, my two small children (5 & 7) have expressed how much they hate him – and now my ex is threatening to take them off me (he is worried about their safety), I have lost all my friends and he once tried to kill me – he is on assault charges for this now.
    I had him put in jail so I could move away from him. Yet as soon as I moved, I got him out of jail & moved him straight back to my new house, losing respect of everyone who helped me move away.
    In our time together he has been an alcoholic- he claims he’s not drinking now, but I’m sceptical of this. He’s abused codeine to the point where he ended up in hospital & nearly died. He doesn’t want to have sex with me ever – if he does, it’s all about him & nothing about me (even this is rare though). He swings between being cranky, moody, irritable about nothing to somewhat nasty. He plays an online game on his phone at every opportunity- and denies he plays it that much. Then he falls asleep outside on a chair & hardly ever comes to bed with me. Yet I keep taking him back. My two small children may be taken off me, yet I take that risk to be with him. What the hell is wrong with me??? I feel like I must be insane. I’ve been suicidal, and for some reason the thought of being without him makes me hyperventilate & feel ill. I know he may kill me next time he hurts me, yet I still stay. No wonder nobody wants to be near me. I hate myself so much.

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    1. Carrie Reimer Post author

      Belinda, there is a woman who comes in here who was just as confused as you, I was so afraid she would never break away from him and she was facing losing her children also. This is a comment she made in the support forum yesterday.

      “That just brings things back to me too. Like one day I will understand the good man he was?? or how I had no life skills, how I didn’t understand as he had lived a ‘colourful life’ and I was just a mom. He always had one rule for him and another for me. I was a slut for dressing in a demin skirt with tights and boots, he put on a suit and called himself a ‘don juan’ and I was not to comment. He took the mick of any noise I would make in bed, patronising me. If I was uncomfortable and embarrassed he was always so lovely in the moment and told me not to worry…only to throw it in my face how shite I looked and do I know not many would find me attractive..and if they did they would look like hunch back of notradam or just want sex. I was lucky to have this man obviously…I mean lucky me for being stripped, spat on, humiliated, filmed, threatened, drugged, slapped around, name called, items smashed…I mean wow what a catch I had looking back. He said when I wouldn’t go back…you will never find anyone like me and the connection we had, things like that are special and never go away and if its something he should know about its the female body…well now I have grown my sense all I can say is thank the lord I will never meet anyone like him…and if its ever a choice between Mr Grey (which he so happily thought he was) Or a Mr Selfridge then I take the latter anytime. I haven’t looked at another man since the night I will never forget in November 2013 and I doubt I will for a long time.
      When you think back what is it you miss….I think most of us would say the sex if we are honest….its something they are a master of and I feel ill knowing now I was just one of many. A relationship is more than that, its feeling loved not humiliated, its been made to feel special not have someone pretend they are on your side only to find your inner hurts and go for them when arguments happen.”

      Belinda, there is clarity of thought once you break away and go no contact. It is the continued contact that is bringing you down and he will not go away on his own. You have to go no contact so you can heal.
      I just saw Fee’s comment and thought of you. If she can do it so can you!!

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  5. Elisabeth

    I sometimes come in for a small comment. Because English is not my native language it is difficult to express myself. I left my narcistic partner almost two years ago. It took a lot of courage and a lot of strength. I was lucky to have friends and family who really believed me. One aunt told me, she always thought he was a psychopath. I was in this relationship for 31 years. I was 30 when I met him. He was different than other man, but right I was very tolerant. Always have been. But there were things I really didn’t understand. Now I know he was mirroring everything. After leaving I was still under his influence and we saw eachother regularly. Now I know for him it was just the sex. He was to angry of me, because how on earth did I leave such a nice and rich guy.
    But I did. I was very devastated. Went to different psychologists. Took a lot of anti depressant pills and have to fight every day to get out of bed and do things. A year ago I went on No Contact. That was devastating too. But I stayed on no contact. He found a new girlfriend and he went on with his life. The girlfriend is the opposite of me, so I think he did this on purpose. Only once I became very angry and wrote him an email. Only once in all those years I told him, what I thought of him. And I think, you could guess what happened. He wrote me back, that they had a good laugh about it. I could have expected it and it didn’t bring any releve. It is nice to know the new girlfriend knew me so well and is thinking of herself as the wonderful new woman. I am the ‘f…..ing bitch’. I am 62 years old. Always lived a decent live and I am called names like this.
    Anyway, after the email I stopped seeing psychologists and taking the a.d. pills. That was hard too. It was a fight for over three months to get over that.
    I cannot say that every day it is getting better. It is a long struggle. My advice to everyone in here would be to go on No Contact as soon as possible and never, never, never let him know anything. Sending that email was one of my best lessons. Love, Elisabeth

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    1. Carrie Reimer Post author

      Elisabeth, thank you for the great message!! You expressed yourself very well! nothing wrong with your English at all. You gave very good advice, it is the only way. I am so happy to hear you got off the pills and are slowly healing. I know it is a long hard battle but one well worth the fight, it gets easier and easier with time. You were with him 31 years, 1/2 your life, you are not going to heal that over a a year, you are doing extremely well even since you first started coming here. You should be very proud of yourself!
      Hugs and love Carrie

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    2. healing

      Hi Elisabeth,
      Your English is very good. Don’t let this prevent you from commenting. I understood very well. :) I too, want to send ‘that email’ but realize it isn’t gonna change anything. And sharing your story further confirms this. I don’t need any further taunting, hurt or haunting from her. Thanks for sharing your story. You’re doing a wonderful job!

      Love and Light.

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  6. Carrie Reimer Post author

    Imcognito, welcome and thanks for sharing your story. I am sorry you have been going through this. N’s are so unsympathetic!! I never had anything as serious as cancer but there were a few times I was really sick and I had to beg him to take me to emergency. One time he didn’t take me until I was turning blue because I couldn’t breath.
    They always think the person is just trying to get attention and manipulate them because that’s what they do.
    I know it is hard to see right now but you Will be better off without him, promise!!
    Hugs
    Carrie

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  7. Mark

    Thank you again for your words of encouragement. I enjoy the challenge too. I see this as an opportunity to better myself as well. Everything happens for a reason Carrie, thus your blog. Thank you for it. You have helped thousands! :) Give yourself a pat on the back! You’re wonderful, amazing and resilient. Thank you. :) Please don’t take the blogs personally. Everyone is is on their own journey so I’m sure there will be dissident. Rest assured everything will be worked out according to God’s plan and in accordance.

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  8. Jerry

    Carrie- Since being back in contact with M, I’m back to being a part of her support system. I wish I had the words to fully express my gratitude for all the information you’ve put into one place to help people caught up in this nightmare. It’s proving so helpful in my own exchanges with M because I’m not doing the same things I once did before having a clearer idea of where her head was and how decimated her heart was/is.

    But a development in our situation brings me here to ask another question. I realize it will be different for each individual but I’m asking this question of you personally an if anyone else wants to offer their side, I’ll welcome any and all input. When did you know you were done questioning yourself about whether you needed to leave your N behind? How much proof was enough proof that you needed (not wanted) before you were able to make a sound decision based on your own needs?

    A little backstory to fill you in. M’s N answered the ad I mentioned I had placed. He has admitted the relationship is over in responding to the ad. She is wanting to ask more questions but I’m seeing it as more circular thinking all driven by his toxicity within her own mind. One question leads to ten which leads to a hundred ad infinitum. It could go on and on. But she is listening to me and asking me questions of ‘should she?’ to which I’m responding with my observation of questions leading to more. I’m walking a fine line here of being supportive without enabling. It’s a helluva balance to keep everything in its place. But I’m handling it alright and she is dealing with the moments by reaching out to me instead of going to his place every time the urge strikes her. She’s in the midst of one hellish war within herself right now though and I want to be able to point to someone else’s words as guidance. Just being able to recognize what is her own thinking versus what he has instilled into her is proving to be quite a battle. Do you have any nuggets of wisdom to cast into this situation?

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  9. healing

    Hi Jerry,

    It’s very devastating after ending the relationship with a narc. If you both are on this website, there’s more than a very good chance he is a narc. Please watch Sam Vaknin’s videos on youtube to learn more. Please continue to research and maybe together. You’ll find all the stories very much the same. After doing the research was the point where I put the pieces together and started to break free. I then realized I missed the idea of who she was, not who she really is. This is what helped me detach even further. Hopefully understanding this will help M as well. After further research i discovered there are not curable, and this is when I knew it was truly over.

    She’s most likely been gaslighted and brainwashed so I believe she is still extremely confused and trying to make sense of it all. I’m sure she has tons of questions, but there is no way she will get any answers from him, and the ones she gets with definitely be more lies. They are pathological liars. There is no making sense of it which is partly what’s maddening. I’m sure she feels the whole world has been turned upside down at this point.

    Please let her know that she is truly in danger. They are socio/pychopaths without guilt, remorse or empathy or conscience. They are capable of anything and derive pleasure from hurting people. The abuse will never end, and if she continues contact he will continue making her life a living hell! The ONLY way to break free is NO contact. This is common knowledge with dozens, and every website I’ve visited about narcs. I really don’t have anyone to talk to. No one understands or I could even explain it because it’s far beyond insanity. That’s why I come here. I’m very glad she has you to talk to, but I don’t know about the enablement aspect. Carrie and others might be able to help you there.

    Please tell M to come here to vent, get support, advice and encouragement. But she has to do it herself. You can’t do it for her. I’ve only gone less than 60 days without contact, and my ex is already seeking revenge. She is slandering and stalking me, and I’m almost sure she broke into my house today. These people are extremely dangerous! Please tell M to stay safe and remain strong.

    My prayers are with you both.

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  10. M

    Hi All,

    To give my side to Jerry’s story. This might run a little long and I apologize for that but I thought I would give a little bit of background on me and my N. If there is such a thing as N’s. I still find it hard to wrap my head around.

    About six years ago I met the man of my dreams. So thoughtful, affectionate, nice. We had everything in common. He was my perfect jigsaw puzzle piece. We spent every spare moment together, which was easy to do as we had all the same hobbies. Also all the same points of view on music, food, politics, religion, you name it. We were two peas in a pod. I would run to the door when he came home, hopping up and down with excitement. We would both greet each other with a, I love you, I thought about you all day. I really meant it.

    We rarely fought. When we did it was always my fault so I just learned how to avoid those situations. Example: One day it was raining and he called me asking if I could pick him up from work. (he’s a bicycle commuter) I asked him if there was any chance he was getting off early. He said no. I purposely worked late so I wouldn’t just be sitting there in his work parking lot for at least half an hour waiting for him. He gets off at 5:00. I got there at 4:59 and he was standing there pissed as hell. I said I was just in time why was he mad? He got off early. Why didn’t he tell me when I had asked if there was a chance of it? It’s too noisy in his workplace and he didn’t hear me. Why didn’t he just go home? Because he didn’t want me to come there and not know where he was. (I could have figured it out) Then instead of coming with me he hopped on his bike and rode home and wouldn’t talk to me for several hours after we got home. Lesson learned. Show up early. This fight would be avoided in the future.

    Although he was very controlling as in when I ate. In the beginning wanting to give me numerous kisses during dinner no matter how starving I was and just wanting to eat. To, oh let’s have a beer, or two…..or his friends were over frequently and it was rude to eat dinner in front of them. I asked repeatedly why we couldn’t just invite them. Sometimes they would even bring burgers with them and would eat in front of me while I was starving and heaven forbid I get a grouchy face about it. Or controlling when I went to bed by saying he loved me so much, just stay up with me. Or not being able to have friends or family visit because he had extreme social anxiety. Which I never saw this anxiety with his friends or when we went out.

    A little over two years ago I had the strongest gut feeling that there was someone else. I couldn’t believe it because we had such a dream life together. I asked him about it and he simply said, there’s no one else and walked away.

    But the feeling persisted and only got stronger. At this time items around the house started to disappear. He would see me frantically searching and then two days later whatever it was would show up exactly where I had looked for it. I told him multiple times that I felt like I was going crazy. Then personal items of mine started to disappear and stay gone. Things like my fake eyelashes and my diary. He said we had a burglar. A burglar that was coming in every week or so and not taking anything of value so we wouldn’t call the police.

    He always had excuses for every weird thing I found. What looks like a smear of lipstick, which I don’t wear, on the blanket. It was the dogs. Circles of blood on the sheets two months in a row, 28 day apart, when I was not on my period. He had cuts on his hands. Him smelling of perfume when he got home. The regional manager was there and she wears a lot of perfume, it must have rubbed off. I talked to our snoopy neighbor and he told me that women did come to my house after I left for work. The neighbor is lying to break us up so he can have me for myself. On and on like that. Nothing huge but weird things plus my gut was simply screaming at me. We had many fights about this because I started flat out accusing him. He would say I was effing crazy. I kept all of this to myself for about a year then started talking to my friends. They also said I was crazy. He’s too nice. He would never do such a thing.

    Last February was the first time I tried to break up with him. He went into hysterics. Called his dad that lives about 45 minutes away. His dad came and said, my son is not a liar, my son is not a liar. After sitting awkwardly for about three hours I asked if he would just go spend the night with his parents so I could have some alone time. He burst into sobbing, gathered his things and with a yell of f you f you stormed out the door.

    Then he came back the next day saying we can still save the weekend let’s just have a nice weekend together. And so it went. Periodically I would tell him I was miserable and wanted him to move out and he would say there is no reason for us to break up because the only reason would be because you think I am cheating and I am not. I would beg him to leave. It was super hard every time. I would do it in person or write him letters. He would read the letters and say, is this what you really want? And make me repeat yes, yes, louder and louder until I would burst into tears telling him I don’t know!

    I finally told my mom and she drove out from two states away to serve him with an eviction notice which I was too scared to do. That was the end of last September. Long story short he did move out. We kept seeing each other on a regular basis. It was so hard for me to let go and he was always pushing it. Then I would become determined and not communicate for a few days and the days between when I would see him would become two weeks at a time but we would still see each other. I was stuck in limbo of not being able to let it go.

    Then Jerry put up the fake ad. His initial response was that he was flattered and also recently single. I thought no big deal. I have told him to get another girlfriend and leave me alone. He actually told me about this email girl and said he had told her he was flattered but working things out with me. Then we started spending more time together again. He would ask me to marry him each time. But he was also emailing “the girl” at the same time. He sent an email telling about himself and it was the strangest thing. He completely stole my identity. All the things that are my favorites were now his to a stranger. Last Friday morning I saw him. We had sex. He asked me multiple times to let him come home and marry him. He was sick of limbo. He wanted to come home or at least have me make a firm decision on what we were doing. I told him I would give him an answer by the end of the day. Meanwhile “the girl” emailed him that afternoon and I knew he would be dying to answer her. I went to his house after work and told him, I love you but I don’t trust you and I want this to be over. He burst into tears. Telling me to leave because it hurt too much too look at me. On my way home he emailed the girl saying how over me he is and she seems cool, etc. I texted him asking if he was going to hook up with the email girl and he said no and that if he met someone he would let me know out of respect for him.

    So he was obviously busted. Finally. I had tried to catch him for two years. I felt such relief! I wasn’t crazy! I was chanting I’m not crazy all weekend. I felt like a huge weight had been lifted.

    Then he texted saying he knew I was the email girl. It spun me around. If he knew I was the email girl then he knew he was busted. What game was he playing? What does he really know? What does he know that I know? It was always a game like that with us.

    He continued to text me. I mostly ignored him. Wednesday he asked if I was certain about it being over and I told him yes. He sent a slew of awful messages saying how effed up I am and this is all my fault, etc. I asked him to forward me the emails from him and the girl and at first he refused saying that showed a lack of trust. Then later he said he couldn’t because he deleted them all.

    After work he was still texting me with either, I effing hate you to I love you let me come home. During all these texts he emailed the girl telling her that he deleted my number, it’s over with me.

    I know this is long but this is actually the short version. I know that I cannot see him again. I know he is a poisonous liar. But I still just can’t even believe it. I have had as much proof as I would ever likely get, thanks to Jerry, because he is super smart and I tried to catch him myself for two years to no avail.

    I miss him so much. It’s all so stupid. I don’t understand how I can be so addicted to someone that is using me. Other than it never seems to sink in that he doesn’t actually love me and our entire relationship was a fantasy. Jerry thinks I am playing with fire to not block his number. I had him blocked at one time and mostly I don’t answer but sometimes he sucks me in and I can’t seem to make myself sever that last tie.

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  11. Bridget

    Dear Carrie,
    I need your advice again!! Sorry, I can’t work out how to post on the site.
    I’ve got this creepy co worker who won’t leave me alone. She is female as am I. I have known her for years- we both work in the same field. I work abroad for a company. She was also freelancing for this company and got herself promoted above me and has since tried to make my life hell, undermining, harassing, staring, making crass comments and trying to humiliate me. She has my boss under her thumb so it is quite difficult to complain although my boss has apparently spoken to her about her behaviour towards me on one occasion. With all of this, she wants me to her friend, take her out with me when I am in the office and basically pander to her which I am refusing to do. She tries to find out about my private life and anyone I am friends with, she immediately befriends and encroaches on. She has recently got remarried and calmed down for a time but now seems as bad as ever/ I presume she has got bored with her new husband. She comes into the office periodically so I do have a respite but she sits opposite me and stares at me, follows me around the office and generally tries to harrass me all day. She seems pretty fixated with me and it creeps me out. She is of course charming with everyone else and they all think she is fine and that I should just deal with it. To me it feels like being stalked. I lost my cool in the end and spoke frankly to my boss about her. My boss has been monitoring the situation and it has improved but she is obviously undermining and gossiping behind my back and has stressed me out completely. What can I do about her other than move on which is obviously her intention here?
    Many thanks for your advice.

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  12. Carrie Reimer Post author

    Bridget, you did fine commenting but if you go to the very bottom of the comments there is a Line that says, “Don’t be shy, leave your comment and a space below that to comment. There is also a place to tick if you want to be notified of any new comments or posts.
    For whatever reason she is fixated on you which is really creepy and has to make a person wonder what she is up to. Who knows why these people pick who they do but try to not let her get to you. They do thrive on drama and trauma and if she thinks she is getting to you it will only encourage her. She is probably jealous of you for whatever reason. Maybe she feels you are popular in the office and wants to be also and thinks you will pave the way for her. I don’t know.
    Most normal people will take the hint that someone doesn’t like them and leave them alone.

    Here is what I would do; I would keep my personal life very personal, with everyone at work, I wouldn’t discuss her or anyone else. Keep any talk about what you did on the weekend to very general chit chat and don’t share anything at work at all. And then I would be sickening sweet to her, I would go out of my way to ask her how her weekend was, turn it back on her, kill her with kindness so she has nothing to bitch about with you. I would not ask her to join you at lunch or after work or anything like that but I would not try to avoid her at work either or complain any more to the boss. Snide comments, let them wash off you like water off a duck, take it as jealousy and laugh. Knowing you are so much better than her.
    Right now from the sounds of it she is getting what she wants, you are getting flustered and uncomfortable, she is playing innocent and everyone is starting to think you are the one with the problem. The boss is going to get sick of monitoring things, this is an office and not a kindergarten and the one doing the complaining is going to get negative attention. I am not saying you don’t have reason to be uncomfortable I am just saying I can see how this is going to play out.

    it is up to you if you can’t handle it and move on but i don’t think that is necessary if you just don’t take the bait. Know what she is doing and refuse to play the game with her. She is a bully and she is getting payoff from it. If you don’t react there is no payoff.

    Years ago I worked with a woman who back stabbed me every chance she got but was super sweet to my face. It got back to me what she was saying and I never let on I knew then one day we ended up alone in the computer room (back in the day when the computer needed a whole room) I closed the door and backed her into a corner. I very calmly and quietly said, “I know what you are saying behind my back.” she started to deny it and I interrupted her. “Like I said, I know what you have been saying behind my back and I wanted you to know I know.” and i walked away and left her standing there with her mouth open. I then went into the boss’s office that this woman always went in and closed the door and talked to. (if you follow me) and I stood at the doorway, when the boss asked me what I wanted I turned around and said, “Can you tell me if I have any knives in my back?” and she got all flustered and said “no why?” and I said, “Because I would hope you would talk to me directly if there is a problem and not talk behind my back. I just wanted us to be on the same page.” and I walked out of her office and that was it. I went back to work and never treated anyone any differently. I don’t know if they stopped talking behind my back but I felt better just speaking my mind and letting them know I knew.

    it doesn’t have to be a big show down and doesn’t have to involved the whole office, in fact it is better if it doesn’t because if she tells people you said anything to her you can just deny it. Play the game like they do, if she tells lies about you, or even truths just deny deny deny. That is the thing, we think we are powerless because we are honest and they are evil but we don’t have to be so damned honest all the time and we don’t have to be an open book.
    hope that helps
    hugs

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  13. healing

    Hi M,

    Thanks for sharing. I have a hard time understanding narcs as well because it disgusts me so much. They don’t operate with ‘normal’ human behavior or emotion so it’s very difficult to grasp. However, what you described is exactly what most all here have gone through so you’re definitely not crazy or alone. The abuse is so terrible it’s hard to know up from down anymore. It always starts out as a wonderful fantasy, but once they have you hooked the what is called “crazy making” begins. A narc can’t stand intimacy because they lack emotion, and they hate you for what they can’t have so the switch flips so to speak. It’s very difficult to understand and you never fully will so I stopped trying. I know all I need to know and it helped me break free. You’re coming out of what is called the “FOG” so it is normal what you’re experiencing. Please look this term up so that you can find some relief to start thinking clearly again.

    The missing and mysteriously returning, and stolen stuff is called “ambient abuse” (gaslighting). It’s a very common behavior with narcs. They are pathological liars and want you to think you’re going crazy so they can control you more. This is what led me to do research, this website, and to helped me to finally put the pieces together. It was ugly and scarey but gave me my sense of sanity back. I was like you, I had a “gut feeling” something was up, but I had no tangible proof so gave her the benefit of doubt. I found out on my own accord through months of investigation that she was having sex with at least 3 other men. I was appalled to say the least. I will NEVER not trust my instincts again, and highly recommend no one else does either. Narcs are notorious serial cheaters. They “mirror” everything we want in the beginning so he’s “grooming” his next victim through the ad that was placed. They are identity thieves, because the lack one, so this is also very common. I’m so glad you had Jerry to help you catch him because you might still be suckered in his web of lies and abuse.

    I’m so happy to hear you’ve broken free. My best advice for you is to have NO contact. It is the ONLY way you will heal from this. Otherwise the crazy making, abuse, torment and hell will never end!! This isn’t just my own personal advice. It’s the advice of EVERY website I’ve researched and read including this one. I also read on numerous websites (including this one) the abuse will get far worse next time. I don’t want to scare you, but these people are extremely dangerous and incapable of change. It’s hard to grasp, but they lack guilt, remorse, empathy and conscience.

    It took me awhile but I missed her in the first stages like you do. This is also completely normal. I think you want the person you fell in love with back like I think most do in some degree. But that person was never there to begin with which is an extremely difficult and sad process. What helped me get through it was realizing that I was in love with just a dream, and sympathy that she is incurable from the lack of empathy or love. Please keep coming back here M every time you feel weak and the urge to contact him. ‘Vomit’ out all the poison and toxins and I promise it will get easier. People here like Carrie will understand what you’re going through so that you don’t think you’re crazy or alone. I’m very glad you have Jerry in your corner. He sounds like a very intelligent, caring and good man. Please be safe and know you will get through this day by day, sometimes hour by hour, week by week, and then month by month until you’re completely free! You deserve it M, so give this gift to yourself.

    (((Holy Hugs)))

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  14. Carrie Reimer Post author

    M, thanks for your honesty. No worries about the length of your comment. Believe me you are normal, I felt exactly the same way as you, as most victims of an N. I noticed you did the same thing I and most victims do; in the beginning of your comment you expounded on how perfect the two of you were, two peas in a pod, as a way of showing why you were so in love and wanted to believe him. It was not just some guy, it was not some ordinary love, this was your soul mate, it was almost supernatural. I read about narcissists years before I left James, I read the traits and thought, yeah he could have the traits but these women don’t know what he and I have. “James and I have something people just don’t find everyday, in a life time!” I KNEW he loved me, we had such a connection. Almost all victims have the exact same thing to say.
    Everything you said rings true to me and I am sure 95% of everyone else here who reads it.
    I busted James so many times, and I would be hurt but relieved also to validated, this time he couldn’t talk his way out of it, this time I had him, I had proof, hard facts, pictures, or letters in his own writing, my God I would have him so busted and for a day or two I would feel better, finally I had the truth. But within a day or two he would have me doubting myself or I would find myself begging him to come back to me and I was sorry for something!? It was bizarre how he could twist things and turn things back on me, make the most bizarre circumstances sound feasible and logic sound crazy.
    I would kick him out and he would come home later and pretend like nothing happened, we would have a horrible fight and an hour later he would act like every thing was fine. Or I would think everything was great and come home to find out he had moved out. My God he told me he had been given 6b months to live and I was the only woman he could ever love and the sob was living with 2 other women alternately depending on who was angry with him that day. I thought it was impossible for him to tell two women that he loved them at the same time and I found out that he had told 6 women in 1 year that he loved them and they were the love of his life.
    Why do you still love him? Because contrary to what makes sense; that we will eventually collect enough info and get hurt enough that we will be able to walk away and not love him any more, it doesn’t work that way. What actually happens, is the more we invest the harder we hang on. By invest I mean, we catch him, we forgive him (giving of ourselves) and take him back, we compromise our instincts (giving up part of ourselves), we accept treatment we know we shouldn’t (we give away our self respect), we let them move in again (we put the past behind us and try again) We go against what friends and family think we should do (we give away our support system) We believe his lies even tell ourselves lies (we give away our trust in ourselves) We give up our power and hand it all to him, we say, “I am weak, I cannot fight this love, I need him to feel good about myself, I need him to make it all ok because I have given him every single thing that makes me who I am. I have invested simply everything I have, it has to work out, I have to have my happy ending or else I invested in nothing………not just nothing, but I invested everything I am in a facade, a dream, an asshole. That is very hard to accept. If we admit what they are we have to admit we got duped, we were sucked in in the biggest way possible, we have to admit that there are horrible, vile, evil people out there who really don’t give two shits about anyone but themselves. Everything I loved about him was a lie.
    As long as you have contact with him you keep the hope alive that somehow you are wrong, you cling to the hope that a miracle is going to happen and you will wake up and it will all be a bad dream. And as long as he has any tiny opening he will do whatever he can to instill doubt and confusion in your mind. He will bombard you with love, then guilt you for awhile, then baffle you with bull shit and smoke and mirrors until you just give up in total exhaustion and throw your hands up and say, “I can’t fight it, I give up.” The only way to move on, to start to heal is to have no contact, to cut the ties. I wish it wasn’t true but it is. I couldn’t do it for almost a year after we had split. He was living with another woman and I still could not cut him out completely, it was like my life line but I will tell you that the minute I did, I started to finally heal. Because every communication I had with him set me back. Once you no longer talk to him any healing you do is a step forward but the minute you talk to him again you go right back to square one again.

    I hadn’t talked to James for more than a year and he showed up out of the blue where I did business, one hour of talking to him and I was a basket case again.

    It is totally up to you, I know it is hard, I could handle me not contacting him the problem was I wanted him to have access to contact me if he wanted. That is the true of it. I wanted to leave that door open in case he changed. But he never will and it keeps you living on hope and telling yourself lies. It is going to hurt, there is no two ways around it. But the healing will come a lot faster when you cut him out of your life.

    As for taking on your personality, lol I had to laugh when I read that because that is exactly what James did to me also. It was like he stole my whole life and left me a shell of a person. He talked like I would talk, his morals were my morals, his values were mine, he talked like he was shocked I would ever think he would break the law or lie. Wjo did he think he was talking to? I knew him better than anyone. He told everyone and his new woman that I did to him what he had done to me!! They went on the vacation I always wanted to take, everything I had wanted him to do for me he did with her. They set things up to be the most painful for the victim as it can be. I realized after James and I split that his ex hated that he was a trucker, he screwed around the whole time they were together so with me he quit trucking and pretended to give me everything she had wanted, they had been together 10 years and once we made it to the 10 year mark he went back to trucking. He was so happy that she had really hated me because we had lasted longer than they had. How sick is that? he would stay with me just to make her feel it was all her fault he screwed around.
    My ex went for dinner with me one night I caught him with another woman the next day and that night he moved in with another woman. Then he got engaged to that woman and showed up a week later professing his undying love for me. They are assholes, M.
    Good luck and please do not hesitate to comment as long as you like we are here if you need an ear or support. or a shot of reality!
    Hugs

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  15. Jerry

    Carrie and Healing- It helps more than I can describe to hear you both saying the same things I’m offering to M in my own support of her. I know how old it gets sounding like a stuck record from one person but when those of you who have been through the trenches with a narc sound off in unison like this, it helps M, offers her the hands on wisdom of those who have been in her shoes. Though I wish she had found this place sooner, I’m also familiar with the concept, it takes what it takes to reach a point where help is sought then found. M has progressed from a frozen in place, fearful shell of a woman to where she is now. She hates change and just wants to live a simple life with people who care about and love her in her circle. It isn’t like she’s an impossible dreamer or anything. She’s simply a genuinely good woman with a tender heart, a good mind with a good dose of adorability. At least that’s my obviously biased opinion of her. She’s one of the best women I’ve ever met or had a chance to know as I do now.

    I know my own involvement with her has been running a parallel course to her moods and circumstance of her relationship with this cretin. As much as it hurt to walk away the first time, I look at it now as a chance to get my feelings for her placed where they weren’t a source of guilt for her and to regain some balance for myself. That was a biggy in our previous dynamic. Shortly after being in touch this ‘second time around’, she gave me the link to this place. A whole universe of information and anecdotal affirmation that she wasn’t crazy, just caught up in a crazy situation opened up to me. I knew all along she wasn’t crazy but she couldn’t seem to shake the idea on her own. And I couldn’t know the full extent of her circumstance back then either. It was just, ahem, too crazy.

    She hates that word after being subjected to his crazy inducing abuse and hearing that same word used to describe her from his asshole buddy who was often in her home but was someone she wouldn’t ordinarily give the time of day to. Her narc had found his sugar momma and had no regard for her or her feelings but he sure liked having a home to live in where he could manage every little detail of her life and sneak women into her bed after she went to work. Reading all the accounts of others and recognizing all the similarities to her own situation has been huge in helping her accept she’s not crazy. My ad helped confirm it and raise enough hard evidence to stop the spin long enough to let her jump off his merry-go-round. Her most recent challenge has been to sever all contact. She blocked him from her phone. But I’m afraid she’ll eventually have to bite the bullet and change her number.

    I actually researched if emotional and psychological abuse was a criminal activity and found nothing to help the victim. The only thing remotely close are laws against harassment. She still hasn’t done it at my urging but if a person states in document form (email, text), “Leave me alone and never contact me again”, any later contact by the narc falls under the legal definition of harassment. This can be used to receive a restraining order should one ever become necessary. Where we are, the first offense is a misdemeanor, the second time on, a felony. Her narc had a run in with the law several years ago so this may be yet another tool she could use. But I would be holding out for a pipe dream to think she’ll take this step with her narc. Nonetheless, I was appalled that our legal system blatantly ignores this very real, very destructive abuse. I realize proving the abuse in court would be impossible so maybe that’s why this falls in the cracks. But the bottom line is it’s wrong. Very wrong that someone can decimate another person’s life with legal impunity. My own way of dealing with him would find me going to prison and I’m not going there. That doesn’t seem a good alternative to the life I have now. But knowing this tidbit of legalese may help someone else do their own research into local law and put yet another barrier between them and their narc.

    We’re in for a long haul in her healing. I know and accept this. This place gives me hope. Yesterday gives me hope in how she’s approaching this now. We talked (actually had a spat) last night which was resolved by both of us about how much she has felt herself changing. She even brought me ice cream as a peace offering along with a hug when we reached the end of it. That’s the kind of woman she is and to think her life was being tortured by that animal (sorry animals) makes me livid. The boundaries between M and me are healthy and helpful while she negotiates her own path. But the fact is, she is worth the energy, time, and emotional investment I’m offering her. This place is among the top reasons she is stepping forward into recovery rather than sinking deeper into the nightmare. Again, thank you for being here for us.

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  16. Carrie Reimer Post author

    Jerry, you are more than welcome. I am truly happy to be able to help you guys. I have worked with some women I thought would never be able to let go, that they were doomed to be the N’s punching bag forever but they end up being the strongest women when they finally do let go and they have the most positive revelation and inner peace when they do.
    Hugs to you both

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