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The 3 Phases of a Relationship With a Narcissist

Welcome, so you are wondering what the hell happened aren’t you? You thought you had met your soul mate and you were the luckiest woman in the world. Of course in phase 1 you weren’t questioning your relationship, but like a switch going off everything changed, even if you can’t put your finger on it, something is very wrong. You entered phase 2, for a while you just chalked it up to him having a bad day, or maybe he is sick, maybe he has a brain tumor, or he’s having a nervous breakdown, it will take a while before you go searching for answers about why the love of your life has turned on you.

I was into the relationship for over 5 years before I went looking for answers and even then once I found Narcissist and JC fit the description almost to a T and our relationship was following the course described in various web sites I still didn’t believe he could be unfaithful or would discard me so callously.

It is almost impossible to get your head around the notion he could ever just toss you aside with nothing, and not even look back. If anything; while you are reeling in pain from the relationship ending he’ll take the opportunity to give you a kick in the guts a few times for good measure and make sure you know it is all your fault.

If you are in phase 2 and think you are hurt and confused please believe me it is nothing compared to the excruciating pain of phase 3. You would be doing yourself a HUGE favor to get out now. I only know of one of JC’s ex’s that left him before phase 3 and she is the only one to have gone on to other relationships with other men.

The Phases of Loving a Narcissist


During this phase a narcissist is very loving and is in his or her best behavior. A narcissist can be extremely charming and loving, which often makes a person fall head over heels in love with them. If a narcissist is cheating on his or her present partner with a new lover, it is often more due to the actions of the narcissist than the lover that the relationship started in a first place. While pursuing a new lover, a narcissist is often claiming that he is very unhappy in his or her current relationship, the woman takes him for granted, abuses his good nature and he is carrying the load financially, in the home and emotionally. He will say he has tried and tried and done his grieving of the relationship long ago. He has had to stay because he’s afraid she’ll try to kill herself if he leaves, or she just won’t accept that its over. He is about to get a divorce/separate, has never felt as strongly towards anyone else as he or she is now feeling towards the new lover, etc. If you are the married one he will become your best friend and perhaps even befriend your husband, he will point out how your husband takes you for granted, be telling you how he wished he had a woman like you, he will be your perfect match, totally into you, always so happy to see you, wanting to know all about you, your hopes and dreams, you will feel attractive, appreciated, it will be exciting, his romantic gestures will take your breath away the love-making like nothing you have ever experienced before, you will feel like the sexiest most desirable woman on earth. You will feel you must have this man in your life, you can face anything as long as he has you in his arms. It is intoxicating, you can not believe your good fortune to meet this wonderful man and he loves YOU. A narcissist knows how to say all the right things to disarm the other person and to make the other person fall hard.

Unfortunately this “honeymoon” period never lasts for long. A narcissist soon grows bored and restless and starts to look for another provider of a narcissistic supply. This is when a narcissist enters the devaluation phase.


During this phase the behavior of a narcissist changes, he becomes cold and uncaring almost overnight. this is when the “mask drops” and you see the real man. The narcissist no longer tells you how much he or she loves you, but instead becomes increasingly critical towards you. Suddenly he/she finds all sorts of flaws in your behavior and possibly also in the way you look. You start to feel increasingly unhappy and depressed, because you have no idea what you have done to deserve such treatment. You may try to please a narcissist and try to “make him or her love you again”, however nothing you do seems to be good enough. He may treat you well out in public but behind closed doors he acts as if he loathes you. He accuses you of things you aren’t thinking or doing, is controlling, twists your words, where once you could talk about anything calmly and rationally, now every thing turns into a fight. You find yourself walking on eggshells for fear of setting him into a rage. Every thing is your fault, you are paranoid, too sensitive, causing drama and you should know he hates drama. More than likely some addiction like obsessively watching porn has surfaced or he forces you to perform sex acts you aren’t comfortable with, the great sex you once had is a distant memory unless he is trying to win you over after a really bad fight. Speaking of which he has an uncanny ability to sense when you have had enough and are ready to leave and will turn back into the man you fell in love with just long enough to reel you back in.

During this phase a narcissist may start to look for another provider of a narcissistic supply and may end up cheating or having an affair, however still keeping the current spouse “available”, if the new relationship does not work out the way a narcissist is expecting. A narcissist is getting “kicks” when he or she is thinking that two people (the current spouse and the secret lover) are “madly in love” with a narcissist. This feeling serves as the source of a narcissistic supply. Often times they will leave evidence of their cheating around for you to find because your pain serves up such delicious narcissistic supply.


During the phase of discarding a narcissist becomes totally indifferent to the needs and wishes of the (soon-to-be former) spouse of a narcissist. A narcissist is ready to move on after either finding another source of a narcissistic supply or simply having drained the current source (the current spouse) dry. The current spouse no longer serves as a source of a narcissistic supply and the current spouse is no longer useful for a narcissist. When a narcissist reaches this phase, there is no chance to reason with a narcissist. If you try to beg a narcissist to get back together with you, you are only feeding the ego of a narcissist and providing him or her with a transient source of a narcissistic supply as a narcissist feels you are now devastated after losing them and their “perfectness”. He/she will take great pleasure in rubbing your nose in his new relationship and .blaming you for the relationship failing. He will say how he has met the love of his life, she is calm and rational, they are soul mates and his new woman will be so smug about how special she is. You are left reeling, wondering what the hell happened, how could such a powerful love go so wrong. Not only does he dump you, kick you while you are down and spit on you, he will try to destroy your reputation, go on a smear campaign to win over your friends and even your family, he will accuse you of doing to him what he has done to you and make himself look like the victim. There is no staying friends with a narcissist even though he likes to keep his ex’s hooked as a back up supply and to keep the new woman on her toes. He will try to turn the children against you or get custody, they will leave you financially destitute, and emotionally devastated and taunt you to just kill yourself. They are evil and without mercy.

THEN, just when you are starting to heal and get your legs under you he will pop back into your life, professing his love, tears and all, apologizing for everything e ever did and you believe your prayers have been answered, the man you fell in love with is back and you fall lovingly into his arms. The arms of the devil. As he holds you telling you how much he loves you and how sorry he is, he is secretly laughing and giving himself a pat on the back for being so clever and irresistible, and planning how he will punish you for being so stupid as to believe him. In his mind you deserve to be punished for your gullibility and he feels so superior to have that kind of control over you. The cycle begins again only much worse this time.

If you found this article helpful you will probably find the following posts of interest also.






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1,913 responses to “The 3 Phases of a Relationship With a Narcissist

  • Empowered

    It’s only been a few days since I have realized the type of person I have been dealing with for the past year. But I feel so much better knowing it is him, not me. Every article I read is like reading the history of our relationship. I knew through it all that there were small things that didn’t add up and every time he would tell me how I was letting my mind get the best of me. I was DEAD on with every single one!
    The hardest part is that we are both married. Having to deal with this alone is difficult. I was the perfect victim because he already had me isolated. Everything he said about his wife was straight out of the Narc playbook! Now I see her as broken down and victimized. As I said, it has not even been a week and since I am currently in a “silence” stage from him as punishment for standing up to him, I know he will be back. He will try to break me down. I just keep reading and preparing myself and remembering all the tactics he has used successfully in the past. I know I have to save myself from him. I am a strong person, he got in my head and made me weak for him…not anymore! Thank you for being a source of strength I will need!


  • fee

    Hello all,
    I am so fuming. These guys play the system so well. I am the one who is angry and looks the bully. I hate him, the anger in me is for him and him alone, I love my son but I wish to god he had another father. All through the 9 mths of pregnancy he denied he had a son, told everyone I slept about, blackmailed me with a film he took of me losing the plot after he had mentally broke me, I look insane. I feel insane.
    Dave told me he will have his way, if he pays it will be down to him. I thought no I will fight this truthfully. I never fell to his threats and stayed strong even in the worst times. He remained calm i couldn’t as i had raw emotions. When i met him i began to lose everything. I left work as he instilled in my head i was too good for it, when i left it was my fault etc, every insult i tried to change and do something to make that arsehole proud of me, i loved him so much. He kept moving the goals, i got infections …it was nothing to do with him, found condoms he refused to wear with me in his car, i thought my cancer scare i had years before had come back…his response…busy perving. He spat, stripped, insulted and locked me in a room. He broke my items, wiped them down with his blue gloves and idiot me kept trying to help him and make him see he could ‘let go’ and i would stand by him. He got his freedom, social life and women, i got debt, lost confidence and went insular while he slattered me to everyone. I ended up seeing a counsellor while he laughed and ‘moved on’.

    Why the hell i went bk 4 mths later i don’t know …but 4 mths on…a drink and a bit later…i couldn’t move half naked on the bed. He filmed me and then had sex with me. I loved him and he just used me. Finding out i was pregnant was the worst…but now best thing ever after seeing my son nearly lose his life in august. I didn’t put his name on the certificate but i knew i was going to the csa as i was going to crush the rumour he was not his father. Funnily enough when he saw a picture he somehow didn’t need a dna anymore and he was his dad. He paid 40 a mth as he said that was all he could afford. I thought he doesn’t decide what to pay and i didn’t want him to feel he was doing me some favour….i went to the csa. After 2 months of investigates and speaking to the lovely dave, they decide he is on NIL income and that he pays nothing. Dave told me if i don’t play game i wont get anything. He cons everyone. I am losing my home, living on 700 a mth for me and 3 kids and have to pay my mortgage out of it while he lives in a 2.5k mortgage a mth, as 5 cars, goes out dating or socialising and makes sure he has the best. How the hell anyone gets away with a nil income is beyond me but now i do look even more bitter. I am so angry, angry that he treated me like dirt, that he conned me, that he cons everyone, that he can come across so well scripted even i would buy him …while i come across raw. I am selling my home, cant work until they fix my back and hearing and am not even bothered regards me losing it all but how he gets away with everything so unscaved while having films of me to play victim is just ….well no words. I have wrote to tell him i don’t want his 40 a mth…i will cut my nose off to spite my face but i am damned if he gets to call the shots. I pray Jacob wont go looking for him when he is older…and yet part of me is still on high alert as i know he could still play me, i am a sucker to people hurting so i have to remind myself he cant hurt. I was doing fine until this….he demands photos, tells me he will get Jacob and if i keep him away he will make sure i watch from the window as i weep while he walks away with our son. i don’t know why everyone is buying into him.

    Liked by 1 person

  • ellie2013

    OH Fee :( I am so so sorry. I was afraid this might happen. I know you were trying to be “fair” with him. And wanted “fair” for Jacob. Unfortunately, there is no such thing with an N. EVER. Only revenge, no matter who they hurt. And, unfortunately also, their revenge does not take into consideration babies, childrens innocence. They are fair game in the revenge. They are “objects” as we were to be used and abused, sometimes more so because they know, through our children, they can hurt us the most.

    Your situation the one you are in now, is the reason why I said NO to child support. I personally would have rather lived in a cardboard box than take his money. I did for a short period of time but, when I saw the CONTROL that exerted how he used the fact that he paid anything how he thought it gave him rights to control and manipulate my children and by doing that actually manipulated me, I reconsidered really quickly. Such it is with your children having an N father. THIS is exactly what they do. I guess that you have found out early on is a blessing, really.

    You are in for a long hard tough road, I am afraid. But not one that you can’t travel. You are very strong inside. Extraordinary strong to have gone already through all that you have. It can be done, I am proof. If I can do it anyone can. Just never ever believe not one more word he says. Go no contact again, for good this time. Forget about him ever being a good father, or any kind of father at all. NEVER put past him to do even more EVIL things that he already has threatened. He IS capable, trust me.

    As for why people believe him, think about it. THEY are the best actors in the world. They have to be. HE fooled you, didn’t he? Not saying that meanly but in that same way he fooled you, he pulls out the script in his head and role plays whatever “part” he want to convince someone of.
    It’s what they do, they lie. The act is the lie and they live lies. They HAVE to be convincing and they are.

    Have you thought that perhaps GOD wants you to be out of where you are? Away somewhere far from the N and his grasp? I have heard often lately when GOD closes a door he opens a window. I believe he does, we sometimes just don;t want to pull back the curtain and see that the window is there and open. :) Easy for me to say, it will be ok, I know. But, I feel that it will be , down the road some.

    I think it is good that you are angry. You have to get that out. Angry at him and , I found in my case, angry especially at me for being taken in, for believing lies. Just know that you were being human. None of us that have been taken in are perfect, we made mistakes. We own what is ours and go on.

    We are here for you Fee. Keep us in the loop. If only to listen , if that helps.



    Liked by 1 person

  • freedwithin

    Hello Ellie,
    Thanks for that and your right, I shouldn’t have bothered. He makes me think he as changed, that he will do anything and that he as always paid even when he didn’t have to as he as NIL income. I sound bad, I didn’t want to take his money but I needed it and I hate asking anyone for help or begging. He offered, BUT me being me ….stubborn fool….didn’t want him controlling everything….from what he pays, when he pays…I know he doesn’t like authority and I wanted him to have to take note if am honest, but it backfired. I go no contact for mths at a time, then I think of Jacob and it all starts again. I know I have to go to mediation with him soon…I feel so worn out on one hand and so angry on the other.
    I am just stubborn, he used me so much and he denies everything and says i begged for it that night. He said all women make this up to get back at there exs…but i said it from the min i came too, i know what happened but he will never admit it. I just feel so mad. I need to heal, I was doing well. I know we will need to work together for Jacob as i know he will win him…but i think his plan is more than that…i think he will take him, twist his head, make him have everything when with him while i cant give or match what is dad will. He is being nice…that’s the odd thing…but i know he is lying. I am just frustrated as i know he is playing a game and i don’t want him to win me again and again, i cant go no contact at the moment, as we are organising a date etc but am going to keep it blunt..am biting and it wont help.


    • ellie2013

      Why Fee? You said ” I know we will need to work together for Jacob as i know he will win him…but i think his plan is more than that…i think he will take him, twist his head, make him have everything when with him while i cant give or match what is dad will”. I am not sure I understand? Is there a custody battle now?


  • Andre Avondo

    Stick to your guns the truth will out. Keep your head up high and don’t let him see he can get to you, This is how these sickos get their rocks off. smile at him be polite but show assertiveness don’t buckle That will get him more than trying to fight his twisted mind. What craziness that goes on his mind is just that.”CRAZINESS” you cannot fight that. Don’t defend yourself to anyone you know the truth it is a waste of energy that could be well used somewhere where it is needed more. My son has just come out of a psychiatric facility where he was for 6 weeks he learnt DON’T LET WHAT PUTS YOU DOWN DEFINE WHO YOU ARE. IT IS THE WAY YOU GET BACK UP WHICH IS IMPORTANT. If possible get help it does not make the problem but it does help you to cope. Be strong and remember it is you and Jacob against the world and you can do it.

    Liked by 1 person

  • freedwithin

    Yes he is taking me to court. The advice i got was to show am being ‘favourable’ and don’t argue..its so hard. I agreed to a contact centre so he could see him but he picked one over an hour away and with no where i can stay, i refused as i needed to be able to be in a room near Jacob incase something went wrong, he got upset or needed feeding…he is 11 weeks. He then wanted mediation after me saying i cant speak to him as i feel so angry with everything…i have been advised to go along and he as to pay. Dave will do anything to see him, he as now a record to say he doesn’t legally have to pay but by sending alittle he is showing willing…he as sent 2 lots of clothing for Jacob. I didn’t want them but again, am showing favourable. Now i have got mad since them agreeing he is living on fresh air…am just gutted he cons. It wasn’t about the money, its about him getting everything his way and controlling what happens. He says i have made it hard as he hasn’t seen Jacob yet…and i know i am not making it easy but i know i will lose out. He doesn’t seem to be like a narc..the classic not paying, and not being responsible etc….he looks like he is well adjusted and calm, while i was doing well am not calm when i need to deal with him. I am doing good, his 40 a mth feels like a bargaining tool for seeing Jacob. My being fair looks irrational. I just know if i refuse him asking for help and showing he is going for it ‘for the sake of jacob’ then it will be back on me. If anyone else goes through this….just don’t reply to that email, letter etc then ur not in the middle of the war….now i tried being fair by sending him pics but kept him at arms way….am now in the middle of a game i didn’t want to play. I wished i had listened to you Ellie but it ate me away ….i didn’t put his name on the certificate but he now as a record of basically begging to see him while offering to go for alsorts of help…..i didn’t expect his cleverness. He is playing everything to the tee, so i know i need to go to mediation and i know he will get to see and no doubt have Jacob in time and that kills me as i didn’t want him alone with him. No one seems to want to hear what am saying, he is so good and getting people on board…i need the qualities he as…meaning acting skills…as to me am raw.


    • Carrie Reimer

      Oh Fee!!! my stomach got ill reading your posts! Exactly what I feared!! I understand your feelings of doubt when he gets “nice” and wanting the best for Jacob; I do, I really do. I kept believing in James for 10 years, forgiving time after time and it bit me in the ass in the end. He had no appreciation for my fairness and loyalty to him.
      This is another example of why “no contact” is SO vitally important. If a person doesn’t have contact they can not be manipulated by their conscience. it is a deadly combination when one person has NO conscience and the other has an overactive guilt gene and need to be fair. They make mincemeat out of us, until we finally accept that they are truly evil and they WILL destroy us if we don’t toughen up.
      I have no one to blame except myself for a lot of the abuse I suffered because of James because I knew he was evil and simply refused to accept it.
      You have done so well up until now and been amazingly strong, you are doing this all alone and while you are sick and under phenomenal stress. I can’t believe how you went through the stress of the pregnancy, the horrific delivery, and coming home in pain with complications to your health and still remained so optimistic and holding it all together. You must be so extremely tired and you so deserve to get a break from this wospos (I can’t call him what I want to call him, asshole is far too civil).

      You are right, now you are in the position of having to “play nice” with him or look bad to the courts. I wish I knew the laws in England because I know they vary greatly from our laws in Canada. I personally know of a girl who lives in my town. Her ex, has made her life hell for years, stalking her, threatening her etc , she got a court to force him into supervised visitation with their daughter but it was in another town over an hour away. He doesn’t have a license so she was expected to drive their daughter once a week for his one hour visit, she doesn’t get child support, typical story. She went out of town to work for a couple of weeks and he right away filed a report saying she kidnapped their daughter etc. She went to court with a folder full, 6 inches thick; of documentation showing how he has harassed her, threatening emails, photos of her stuff he has trashed, everything he has done in the past couple of years.
      When he saw her walk in looking confident and determined with this HUGE folder of evidence he had a “break down”. He asked for an extension and got it.
      Outside the court room he lost it on her and was screaming at her that he was going to kill her etc and being that it is a courthouse there were a ton of cops around and the guy got arrested on the spot and she was granted sole custody etc.

      My point being, Dave is acting EXACTLY like a typical N, unfortunately the courts don’t usually know the tactics of these predators and fall for their calm cool facade. It is such basic manipulation techniques and the victims response is so normal that the whole situation is textbook yet for some reason the courts and law enforcement sector do not see the truth when it is right under their nose.

      Dave has been plotting this for a long time, I am willing to bet prior to you even having the baby he had put the wheels in motion. I could see it coming a mile off, as I know Ellie did too. But we have the “benefit” of dealing with these wospos and learned the hard way, like you are now; that there is no limit to the depth of depravity these soulless subhuman will go to. They will cut off their own nose to spite their face, I have seen my ex do it. I still live in fear of what James could be plotting because I know he wants to ruin the rest of my life. I have learned from my experience that I should have never rolled over and let things slide. I should have found my brave long ago and faced off with him in court, laid the truth on the table and stood firm. But I didn’t want to battle, I didn’t want him angry with me, I was afraid of him and maybe if I just didn’t react or challenge him he would get on with his life and leave me alone. But it never happens because they MUST win at any cost.

      You have no choice now, you must find the strength to deal with him and you must find a way to stay calm, level headed and determined. You must find the confidence to know, really know deep inside that you have the right to protect your child from this evil man. Believe me, he is not doing his because he wants Jacob and wants to be a loving caring father to the child. He is doing this to make you pay, he knows that taking Jacob from you will tear your heart out and he is determined to make you pay for having the audacity to defy his demands on you and to stand up for your rights .
      I have no doubt that him closing his businesses, him laying low and not being his typical womanizing self, the money, the clothes, all of it has nothing to do with him being a changed man and everything to do with setting the stage for him to take you to court for custody of Jacob. In his mind his ploy was going to work one of two ways; either you would fall for it and willingly let him have jacob and he would eventually take him from you permanently OR he would take you to court and get him. and like I said, not because he has this deep desire to be a loving father but because he wants to make you suffer. Do not for a minute lose sight of that fact. He is not some poor suffering man who just wants contact with his son. If that were the case he would have taken the steps to prove he is worthy of being a father. He would have gotten counseling, he would have made a genuine effort to ease your concerns and prove to you that he could be trusted. He would have admitted to the things he has done and begged your forgiveness and bent over backwards to make amends to you.

      You are not defeated, you have not lost the battle, narcissists only win at these battles because the victim gets scared and starts to feel they can’t fight the all powerful N. most of what the N uses as his weaponry in the fights, is smoke and mirrors and intimidation. Usually he has NOTHING backing him up. He is relying on you crumbling under the pressure and giving up. When you don’t back down, when you stand firm and look him in the eye and he sees the determination in your eyes that says, “Bring it on asshole, I am ready for you.” he is going to start to fall apart. It may not show on the outside but he knows he is on thin ice and it wouldn’t take much to bring his whole orchestrated life to a crashing demise.

      Do not ever forget the low life that he is, hold your head up high with the knowledge that you are a good, honest, caring, loving woman who has only ever wanted to love and nurture people and have done nothing to purposely cause anyone pain or suffering. Remind yourself daily, 24 hours a day that you are intelligent, beautiful and the only person on this earth who will love your son and put his best interests before anything else. Be the lioness protecting her cub and do not for a second let your guard down.

      Today, start YOUR game plan, it is time to think rationally and defensively, no waiting to see what he is going to do or say because that puts you in the weakened position of always reacting, you have to be proactive. We react out of emotion, if we are proactive we are acting from a position of control. The goal is to stay one step ahead of him and anticipate the worst he can do and be prepared for the worst. Never let him catch you off guard.

      Did you ever start a journal? If not then sit down and going back as far as you can accurately remember and start marking down events and times etc. Any and every email from him, even the ones where he is being nice, to show the inconsistency of his emotions and how he is trying to manipulate you, one email loving the next threatening the next blackmailing. it shows he is unstable. What does he have? one video of you losing it and his lies. You have years of abuse and intimidation. It is time to pull out the big guns and go for broke, no more nice guy or he will chew you up and spit you out Fee.

      His threats to bring out things from your past, you are going to have to be upfront and open about it all.

      You need to build a case. It doesn’t have to all be damning proof he is a lying psycho, you just need volume. You need to document every reason why you feel it is not in your son’s best interest to be left alone with this man and why you feel any contact with this man in the future would jeopardize your son’s mental, emotional and physical safety. Remember and do not downplay the fact that you were broken up with this man (just in case the judge is of the belief it is not rape if you are in a relationship) and he coerced you into coming to his place where he drugged you and raped you. Resulting in your pregnancy. He has shown no remorse for his actions, only made demands. I can not believe the absurdity that he has gotten away with that alone!! you have convinced yourself that a rapist has the right to demand to see the child that results of that rape. Can you imagine any other victim of a rape being forced to allow the rapist visitation with the child??? That a rapist would have the gall and be so self absorbed and oblivious to common human decency to be indignant about not being granted immediate compliance with his demands. It is SO fucking dysfunctional and insane that, for anyone to not take it as solid proof of how out of touch with reality Dave is in unbelievable to me. this man should be in jail. I can not even put my thoughts on the subject into words it is so beyond anything reasonable or just.

      You need to walk into that courtroom with reams of “evidence” and a confident attitude because he will start to panic, wondering what you have that is making you so sure of yourself. Remember, they are all a facade and for all their ranting and flexing of muscles, they know it too. They know what they are and they don’t want to be exposed so keep everyone so busy fending off attacks from them that no one picks up on his bull shit. Their tactics are; Baffle them with bullshit, intimidate them, put them on the defensive, and work their empathy, and self doubt and present themselves a calm and rational man who is actually the victim.

      I don’t know if it will help you at all but I am going to start on an “expert witness” report for you. Even if you use it only as a reference for yourself and to remind yourself you are in the right. To perhaps “jog’ your memory concerning some of the shit he has pulled. I know you find it very hard to believe he is as evil as I have often said he is, at times you have thought I am over reacting or reading evil intent where there is none. But I am sure that as this unfolds you will have aha moments where I am proven right, unfortunately.

      No matter what happens, from this day forward you really must assume the worst from him and watch your back. I do not trust him and believe he will stop at nothing to get his way, and would have absolutely no reservations about causing you great harm. You are dealing with a very dangerous man Fee and I am very much afraid for your safety. Please be very diligent about your safety, do not doubt yourself and do not trust him.

      My apologies for the length of this post!! Like my son said, “You talk a F’ing LOT mom. but it’s one of the things I love about you.”

      My prayers, and every good positive thought i have is being sent to you. Believe in yourself and know we love you.

      Big hugs and much love to you and the wee jacob!


  • ellie2013

    Well, Fee, YOU have emails too, right? Emails where he threatens to take Jacob away from you? I would print every nasty email he has ever sent you, and present them at mediation in a calm cool manner. I believe you even have said in the past that he has threatened you in emails. That can’t be looked at favorably. At this point you can not worry about what has gone under the bridge, you can only go forward. The courts only see what they have in front of them NOW, help the court see Dave as he was being before in writing. Dave will not expect that. He thinks he knows you, knows you will not want your personal business out there for all to see. Call his bluff on that. Remain calm , lucid and explain w/ the e-mails why you are afraid of him and why you are fearful of his contact with Jacob.

    You now know where I was coming from, I hate it, I really do. But, unfortunately, I have never seen one case where an N was able to parent effectively or out of the desire to “be” a good parent. THEY are not capable of it for it require empathy. They can not see past themselves. What they want. The “best interests” of the child are mere words. The child is an object that enables them to hurt the mother more, lets them have a “prop” to use to enstill in others the false persona. They simply do not care Fee. Not now, not later. Yes, he may “pay” a pittance willingly now but it has nothing to do with Jacob. It has mostly to do with how “not” paying would make him appear. He knows that. He has gone on appearances all his life. It is all he has.

    Do you have an attorney? Does he? You may not feel you can go NC right now but with children involved , LC ( low contact ) is normally suggested. Perhaps a weekly e-mail from you, a diary of sorts. Monday, woke at such and such a time, pooped 5 times etc. Each ending with a weekly pic. Nothing personal, emotional. Just related to Jacob. No response from you to anything personal he may address. Read up on the “Grey Rock” method. I know it has helped many women get rid of their N’s as they become bored when they can not get an emotional reaction. HE is using Jacob right now to get his kicks out of seeing you panic. He feels power in the fact he has you worried and scared. Don’t give him any of it. Bore him to death with the “mundane” schedule of an infant with all the numerous details. Crying, eating , sleeping, pooping.

    Never ever under estimate him. Wanting others to see him for what he is can be your downfall. I am afraid, unfortunately, only GOD will pay them back. In spades. I have had decide over the years that that has to be enough for me.

    Praying for you and Jacob.



  • ellie2013


    I wanted to share one more thing. When things went very bad in my marriage to the N, I said to him ” I know our marriage is over, all I want is one thing from you and that is to be a good father.” He looked at me w/ such contempt, such hatred, then. The mask fell. It does eventually and they speak the cold hard truth when it does. He replied, “If you want one of THEM, you better go find the kids one because that will NEVER be me.” HE KNEW. He was letting me know , without a doubt it HE never would be a good father. For once he was telling the truth. :(

    Think about that. One GOOD parent is MORE than enough. When ever you feel guilty about Jacob, remind yourself he has YOU.


  • freedwithin

    Thank you Ellie,
    You always talk sense. I feel really drained and down since all this. I managed a full pregnancy and then 11 weeks with my son. I had the balls and fire to fight him…but its pointless. I feel I have to do as he says. I really question my head if am being brain washed. He openly says now he was nasty and made threats but that he has changed and he can only prove it and that all he as ever wanted was to be a dad and he will be a good one. He sounds passionate about Jacob, never was about me. He sounds broken but then I know this is probably an act. I went for free help, then paid for advice on the net as I don’t qualify for free help as I haven’t earnt enough national insurance or claimed benefits. I cant afford the help. I can only go on what was told to me about being ‘favourable’ I just struggle.
    He as just sent a letter and asked me to take afew days to think about things as this is no longer about me and him, just about Jacob and how he will benefit from his time. This is a bit of his email…

    We just need to move forward and clear the air and plan for JACOBS future and in time it will be ok if we both work together on respecting each other’s boundaries and accepting this should be about JACOB and not about what we both want to happen between our relationship.

    We need to focus on Jacob and that’s the strongest bond we have and we need to focus that out of all this, Jacob is the priority and not what me and you demand to happen.

    What you fail to realise is I know what fighting for something your really passionate is about and in away I am fighting to see my son, but I am trying so hard not to destroy you and your family to gain the rite to see Jacob.

    I have moved on and I hold no grudge or anger towards yourself and just wish to see my son for even a few minutes every month or take him round the park or see him in a centre.
    Thank you for the pictures of Jacob in the last few weeks as they really made a difference and I just wish to cuddle him and smell him like my father did with myself.

    Please don’t hate me Fiona as all I wish to do is see the biggest gift anyone can receive.

    That’s what he wrote…well that’s snippets…it was too long to post it all here. I just feel lost. I question my own head over and over. I am going to think whats best for Jacob. There was a nice side to him on occasions but its the monster I never want to see again. I know I still find the man attractive and I don’t want to meet him as I don’t want to be sucked in. Now you can see am lost x


  • ellie2013

    Yes my dear Fee, you have been sucked in :( Remember this, if their fingers are typing they are lying. If their lips are moving they are lying. HE KNOWS YOU, he studied you, he knows how to get to you. Knows just what to say to soften you. He has done it before. YOU see the “niceness” because that is what you want to see. I SEE the veiled threat “I am trying so hard not to destroy you and your family to gain the rite to see Jacob”. He just snuck it in there didn’t he? It blends in among the niceness. But heed that. More so than the rest of the BS. He KNOWS how to present himself, knows you will print that and show it, ponder over it. BUT, he could NOT help that one brief moment of showing his TRUE self and exposing his true intent. Read that one sentence over and over. Ingrain it in your mind. What good father would destroy a childs mother and siblings to simply get his own way? HOW in GOD’S name is that in Jacobs best interest?

    You are still in love with him some. I can tell. And with that you still believe in the “dream”. The wishful thinking not the what is. Remember Jacobs conception. Was that the “action” of someone who would work with you to raise a child? Or was your drugging and rape the act of a perverse and sick azzhole only thinking of his own pleasure? Was not the taping of it to humiliate you, to hold it over your head to control you? Nice words be damned look at his actions if you want to KNOW the man beneath.

    He was not twanged by a good fairy and changed. It is not possible. YOU KNOW THAT.

    There is no such thing as “working” with an N towards any goal. YOU do not matter, what you want , what you feel. If you let them have an inch they take a mile and destroy all the inches left behind. The very best way to lose Jacob is to believe the BS he is spouting. I am praying very hard you do not buy into any of it.



  • freedwithin

    I know your both right. I just find the word rape hard, I cant prove he drugged me and I loved him so I would have consented. I struggle to see him suffer and I don’t believe am blameless. I just know I couldn’t hurt him intensionally yet he as and will with me.
    I believe he wants to be a dad. I remember him telling me how much he wanted it so much, then my thoughts go to him filming me. I know I have come across what you say he is in emails…one min I will allow a contact centre the next I find something out and I get scared of losing Jacob and wont…then he suggested counselling for us both, I say yes then I don’t know what they will make of it all. He as proof as he played the game, I have confused emotions and I look at his response…go to the police please Fiona if you really believe I did that too you…..that he will show how unstable I am on the recording of me and then mention things I told him so private. He will destroy my children. I don’t want my moms last years hearing of our crap childhood and making her feel bad for it, I was never hung up on it….but dave cant help but fish, dig and bring it up. I have come across the jealous one as I blamed him for cheating and called him crap.
    My head cant register anything. Then my friend said today, give him a chance, let him prove you wrong and if he screws up you got him…if not you get to start over…only I don’t want to start over, I don’t trust him. Maybe I do love him still ellie, though I tell myself I don’t and I don’t feel I do…but I don’t want to hurt him incase he is being honest and will bring Jacob experiences I cant offer. I don’t think anyone would want me anymore and sometimes …only sometimes…I feel I should be grateful he pretends to still love me…my common sense knows he never did. I cant believe how confused I feel…all for one authority believing him. …and my advice was to basically play ball. I just don’t know how to PLAY as I feel so much of every emotion. I want my health back, my hearing…my teeth start again on the 5th November. I feel so undesirable I cant imagine how anyone ever will ever want to know me…I feel screwed up and a mess…so over weight and eating for the sake of it. I just feel alittle down for the last 2 days. I am going away with my mom on thurs for a few days, just to her caravan with the little ones. I am going to think long and hard.
    I wished I hadn’t of gone mad over the money, it wasn’t the money it was the fact he can decide what he pays, when, whats right and wrong and he told me he wouldn’t need to and he is proving he is doing good by his son…and me, I mention everything from everything he did, to him cheating and lieing… like he says I cant forget it and move on…but I am struggling too. I know I am strong and will do what I feel is right but even now am thinking if I am to let him see Jacob I need to move near, I cant let him drive that hour and half drive to take him on the motorway, I panic, he doesn’t wear a seat belt and I cant think of Jacob being anything but safe. It is a mess. I knew I would face him again one day, I wanted to be well and happy and show him, I will turn up obese, skint, deaf, bad mouth and no clothes….he will look lovely and it will give him a boost no doubt knowing he as got me well and truly to the dogs.


  • ellie2013

    You’re right Fee, take a few days. Think. BUT think clearly. IF you believe him to be such a wonderful asset to Jacob, what is stopping you from handing him over? As Mom’s we have to do the best for our children, I understand that. What if you allow whatever it is Dave wants at that moment and the thing he wants most is for you to disappear? For him to have Jacob permanently w/o you in the picture? Will you justify that too? Think on it hard and long because that is a definite possibility. There are many many N’s out there that have taken children away from their Mothers, many women who came here asking for help because they have lost custody to the N. It is a common denominator with them. The ultimate victory. NONE of them care about the child but they have custody. And all of those women felt just like you do. They didn’t want to hurt this man ( using the term loosely ) they thought they cared about. He couldn’t possibly not want the best for their child. Well, the N decides YOU are not any good for the child anymore and makes YOU go away. I can respect the fact you do not want to have “dirt” thrown in your Mom’s way in her later years, want to prevent that anguish but, think how much anguish she would feel throwing dirt on your coffin. I speak from experience , MOM’s as they get older are very tough. WE can handle things must better than you give us credit for :)

    Dave, the son of a bitch that he is does not deserve ANY of your consideration at all. There is NO MEDAL you are going to get for being a martyr. There is no second or third or 10th chance with an N. There is only worse destruction , devastation and death.

    Praying even harder now.


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