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The 3 Phases of a Relationship With a Narcissist

Welcome, so you are wondering what the hell happened aren’t you? You thought you had met your soul mate and you were the luckiest woman in the world. Of course in phase 1 you weren’t questioning your relationship, but like a switch going off everything changed, even if you can’t put your finger on it, something is very wrong. You entered phase 2, for a while you just chalked it up to him having a bad day, or maybe he is sick, maybe he has a brain tumor, or he’s having a nervous breakdown, it will take a while before you go searching for answers about why the love of your life has turned on you.

I was into the relationship for over 5 years before I went looking for answers and even then once I found Narcissist and JC fit the description almost to a T and our relationship was following the course described in various web sites I still didn’t believe he could be unfaithful or would discard me so callously.

It is almost impossible to get your head around the notion he could ever just toss you aside with nothing, and not even look back. If anything; while you are reeling in pain from the relationship ending he’ll take the opportunity to give you a kick in the guts a few times for good measure and make sure you know it is all your fault.

If you are in phase 2 and think you are hurt and confused please believe me it is nothing compared to the excruciating pain of phase 3. You would be doing yourself a HUGE favor to get out now. I only know of one of JC’s ex’s that left him before phase 3 and she is the only one to have gone on to other relationships with other men.

The Phases of Loving a Narcissist

Idealization

During this phase a narcissist is very loving and is in his or her best behavior. A narcissist can be extremely charming and loving, which often makes a person fall head over heels in love with them. If a narcissist is cheating on his or her present partner with a new lover, it is often more due to the actions of the narcissist than the lover that the relationship started in a first place. While pursuing a new lover, a narcissist is often claiming that he is very unhappy in his or her current relationship, the woman takes him for granted, abuses his good nature and he is carrying the load financially, in the home and emotionally. He will say he has tried and tried and done his grieving of the relationship long ago. He has had to stay because he’s afraid she’ll try to kill herself if he leaves, or she just won’t accept that its over. He is about to get a divorce/separate, has never felt as strongly towards anyone else as he or she is now feeling towards the new lover, etc. If you are the married one he will become your best friend and perhaps even befriend your husband, he will point out how your husband takes you for granted, be telling you how he wished he had a woman like you, he will be your perfect match, totally into you, always so happy to see you, wanting to know all about you, your hopes and dreams, you will feel attractive, appreciated, it will be exciting, his romantic gestures will take your breath away the love-making like nothing you have ever experienced before, you will feel like the sexiest most desirable woman on earth. You will feel you must have this man in your life, you can face anything as long as he has you in his arms. It is intoxicating, you can not believe your good fortune to meet this wonderful man and he loves YOU. A narcissist knows how to say all the right things to disarm the other person and to make the other person fall hard.

Unfortunately this “honeymoon” period never lasts for long. A narcissist soon grows bored and restless and starts to look for another provider of a narcissistic supply. This is when a narcissist enters the devaluation phase.

Devaluation

During this phase the behavior of a narcissist changes, he becomes cold and uncaring almost overnight. this is when the “mask drops” and you see the real man. The narcissist no longer tells you how much he or she loves you, but instead becomes increasingly critical towards you. Suddenly he/she finds all sorts of flaws in your behavior and possibly also in the way you look. You start to feel increasingly unhappy and depressed, because you have no idea what you have done to deserve such treatment. You may try to please a narcissist and try to “make him or her love you again”, however nothing you do seems to be good enough. He may treat you well out in public but behind closed doors he acts as if he loathes you. He accuses you of things you aren’t thinking or doing, is controlling, twists your words, where once you could talk about anything calmly and rationally, now every thing turns into a fight. You find yourself walking on eggshells for fear of setting him into a rage. Every thing is your fault, you are paranoid, too sensitive, causing drama and you should know he hates drama. More than likely some addiction like obsessively watching porn has surfaced or he forces you to perform sex acts you aren’t comfortable with, the great sex you once had is a distant memory unless he is trying to win you over after a really bad fight. Speaking of which he has an uncanny ability to sense when you have had enough and are ready to leave and will turn back into the man you fell in love with just long enough to reel you back in.

During this phase a narcissist may start to look for another provider of a narcissistic supply and may end up cheating or having an affair, however still keeping the current spouse “available”, if the new relationship does not work out the way a narcissist is expecting. A narcissist is getting “kicks” when he or she is thinking that two people (the current spouse and the secret lover) are “madly in love” with a narcissist. This feeling serves as the source of a narcissistic supply. Often times they will leave evidence of their cheating around for you to find because your pain serves up such delicious narcissistic supply.

Discarding

During the phase of discarding a narcissist becomes totally indifferent to the needs and wishes of the (soon-to-be former) spouse of a narcissist. A narcissist is ready to move on after either finding another source of a narcissistic supply or simply having drained the current source (the current spouse) dry. The current spouse no longer serves as a source of a narcissistic supply and the current spouse is no longer useful for a narcissist. When a narcissist reaches this phase, there is no chance to reason with a narcissist. If you try to beg a narcissist to get back together with you, you are only feeding the ego of a narcissist and providing him or her with a transient source of a narcissistic supply as a narcissist feels you are now devastated after losing them and their “perfectness”. He/she will take great pleasure in rubbing your nose in his new relationship and .blaming you for the relationship failing. He will say how he has met the love of his life, she is calm and rational, they are soul mates and his new woman will be so smug about how special she is. You are left reeling, wondering what the hell happened, how could such a powerful love go so wrong. Not only does he dump you, kick you while you are down and spit on you, he will try to destroy your reputation, go on a smear campaign to win over your friends and even your family, he will accuse you of doing to him what he has done to you and make himself look like the victim. There is no staying friends with a narcissist even though he likes to keep his ex’s hooked as a back up supply and to keep the new woman on her toes. He will try to turn the children against you or get custody, they will leave you financially destitute, and emotionally devastated and taunt you to just kill yourself. They are evil and without mercy.

THEN, just when you are starting to heal and get your legs under you he will pop back into your life, professing his love, tears and all, apologizing for everything e ever did and you believe your prayers have been answered, the man you fell in love with is back and you fall lovingly into his arms. The arms of the devil. As he holds you telling you how much he loves you and how sorry he is, he is secretly laughing and giving himself a pat on the back for being so clever and irresistible, and planning how he will punish you for being so stupid as to believe him. In his mind you deserve to be punished for your gullibility and he feels so superior to have that kind of control over you. The cycle begins again only much worse this time.

If you found this article helpful you will probably find the following posts of interest also.

http://ladywithatruck.com/2014/01/30/search-terms-on-narcissists/

http://ladywithatruck.com/xmlrpc.php

http://ladywithatruck.com/abuse-can-be-subtle-and-deadly/

http://ladywithatruck.com/2013/08/15/whats-in-a-name/

http://ladywithatruck.com/2013/11/01/did-heshe-ever-love-me-2/

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1,941 responses to “The 3 Phases of a Relationship With a Narcissist

  • Carrie Reimer

    Fee, as I read all the excuses and reasons for your doubt and uncertainty I can’t help but think about my son and his situation. When you see a dad who is genuinely only concerned for his child it is so obvious and easy to see a dad who isn’t.
    My son had his daughter with this young woman as you know. My granddaughter is now 4. This summer was the first time he was allowed to take his daughter on his own, for a few hours. He has faithfully paid his child support for 4 years (they had it drawn up legally that he pay a certain amount and he signed it, after getting blood tests proving she actually is his) and even paid more when his wages went up of his own free will, even though the mom was living with another man and they make 5 x’s what my son was at the time. even though his daughter called the other man daddy and he was just mommy;s friend. My son’s friends told him to fight for his rights and he said he didn’t want his daughter to feel odd man out,. The step dad had his two boys living with them and it was confusing for his daughter to not call him daddy. My son had to work out of province to afford the child support so he was not around much and didn’t want his daughter to feel uneasy going with him.
    When my son moved back to Vancouver he was still a 4-5 hour drive away from his daughter yet he worked 6 days a week and drove the 8 hours on his day off in order to spend a couple of hours with his daughter and the mom. and you are worried about Dave driving an hour to see his son? he has paid a few dollars and sent some clothes, would he be willing to prove himself for 4 years, he is expecting compliance to his demands and it has been a few months.
    My son has never asked what the mom spends his money on, he says, it costs money to raise a child and how she spends the money is up to her.
    When she went through some horrible personal struggles lately my son was supportive and rushed off to help her because like he said to me. She is my daughter’s mother, if i help her I am helping my daughter.
    I have thought it was unfair he was not called daddy and allowed to see his daughter more and he said, “Look mom, I was not a great guy when she was born, I was into drugs and not responsible. I need to prove myself and her mom has every right to be apprehensive. It will happen in time. I cry myself to sleep many nights but I will do what is right for my daughter. you have to let me handle it.” I went to say, “Yes but…..” and stopped myself. If my son wants to own his mistakes and he wants to prove himself who am I to make excuses for him.
    THAT is a real man Fee, a man who owns his mistakes and is willing to prove himself over time, as much time as it takes. I have to give the mom credit for giving him the opportunity to prove himself but what my son did is small potatoes to what dave has done.
    What has Dave done in an effort to prove himself. He gives barely veiled threats that if you do not comply he will make you and your family pay dearly. He says the words but where are the actions to back those words.
    HE Fucked up Fee, he has done so many bad things to you, if he is so concerned with seeing his son he should be jumping through hoops to prove he is worthy. To tell you he is a changed man is easy, proving it is where the work is. Why should you believe him now? he has never proven to be trust worthy. Like when James came and apologized to me and I asked, “Why should I believe you this time?” and he said,
    “Because this time I mean it.” oh ok!! and I went back. The stupidest thing I have ever done and it almost cost me my life.
    Think about it Fee. are you complying because you are afraid of him? or because you truly feel deep down it is best for your son? and how are you going to live with yourself when he proves he has not changed but it is too late, you have lost Jacob. how will you live with yourself when you realize you were sucked in again? That you knew what he was like and yet you handed over your son anyway, to save your mother’s feelings? she is a big girl and quite able to deal with whatever, Jacob is an innocent baby, do you want him raised by a man who resorted to blackmail and threats to see him and didn’t care enough about him to want to BE a loving parent instead of orchestrating things in his favor.
    Fee, he will take Jacob, find himself another woman to care for the child and leave you to rot without a second thought. I see nothing but heart ache for you and Jacob.
    You don’t need to pay for advice, anyone who has any experience with these people will tell you the same thing, he is evil. You don’t need an expert to tell you that the man is pure evil. Anyone who hears the true story of what he has done to you would say you are crazy to listen to him.
    Give him a chance to prove himself and if he fails start over? does this person know the whole story?? Who on earth would take that kind of chance with a wee helpless child.
    Oh Fee, I am so worried for you and Jacob.
    Please run away, take little Jacob and run!!! Dave is not on the birth certificate and he didn’t want to be. He has no legal rights, he didn’t want them. Deny he is the father and get as far away as you can.
    I will be praying for you.
    Love and hugs
    Carrie

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    • Carrie Reimer

      Fee, also, my son willingly went for drug testing and now the mom is moving and he wants her to move closer to him so he has offered to may her more per month until she gets settled because if she is closer it will cost him $500 a month less that he is presently spending on fuel to get to her. Once again he rationalizes it because it is better for him because he will see his daughter more and wont spend his one day off driving.
      yes I do think my son is an exceptional man and not a lot of men would do what he is doing but Dave doesn’t even come close. he isn;t even in the same ball park. he has done nothing to change except talk nicer to you.
      If he is serious about being a changed man, he would prove it. I think you are afraid that he can’t prove it. If you don’t comply and let time tell the story you know he can’t do it. he knows it too, that is why he is pressuring you, he knows he can’t toe the line, he will fail miserably as a parent and he can’t go the distance.

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  • ellie2013

    Carrie and Fee,

    I agree with all you posted Carrie but I believe that unfortunately I also believe Dave thinks HE is the perfect parent. They all think they are perfect, the perfect husband , partner and parent. Whatever that means in their warped minds. They talk the talk as you say very well , just never an execution. That’s what makes them so dangerous to someone vunerable to words. They will spout whatever they have to get their desirable result with as little effort as possible. Just words. Never action. And never ever dependable. I remember my xnh disappearing whenever the kids were sick. He couldn’t be bothered and this was exactly when he would pick fights. Like the childrens illness was such an inconvenience to his comfortable existence he couldn’t handle anything less than them being “perfect” and illness was a sign they were not.

    I am not sure, Fee, where the feeling of having to protect Dave comes from. In my mind, there is NO choice when it comes your baby’s safety and Dave. And there should NEVER be a doubt who comes first. Dave has ridiculed you countless number of times Fee. Do you doubt he will NOT do that to Jacob? After all, Jacob is half your blood. If Dave considers you so beneath him, will he want you hanging around when he is using Jacob to “hook” a higher quality supply? Presenting himself as the “poor” Dad just trying to raise his son alone, just looking for that one good woman to help him?

    I agree you should run to the hills as fast as you can. Hide. Do whatever you have to to protect you family. But, do not believe his lies any longer. Please.

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  • lonely

    It’s so hard to stay away, as sick as it sounds the one who hurt me the most is the one i want the most, all day every day i am thinking of him. This blog has been my crutch when i am all alone, it reminds me of the monster he is, has brought my attention to all the controlling and manipulative ways he had with me. The pain is so deep and so confusing, i am in rape/domestic violence counselling and that is helpful but the hours i am alone are the worst. I have blocked him from my phone and asked that he stay away from my home but that didn’t stop him popping a trinket in the mailbox – either to lure me back or just fuck with my head! I wonder the house at night checking locks over and over, i fear going out incase i bump into him, he gathered so much information from me about me so he has ammunition up his sleeve and has promised to use it. I want to talk to him, i want him to admit his part but after reading all i have i know that is never possible, i so desperately want an apology BUT an apology for rape would that mean anything. I feel like a gutted fish left on the jetty to rot in the sun, and he just walked over me – disguarded is an understatement.

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  • lisa51

    Yes, I understand lonely. I’m 4 months NC (once went for 9 months NC – each time it becomes more and more crystal clear what and why I attracted this predator), and he’s still in my head everyday. I have been able to win over the urges to contact him … I just keep studying and reading and when I think of contacting him, I play over the possible outcomes and realize it will not change anything. They twist everything and it’s really hopeless. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever tried to do … break a trauma bond. A lot of it has to do with brain chemistry and being targeted when we are vulnerable and trusting to produce that brain chemistry over and over. The main thing is, they are liars, have proven it time and time again. They lie to get what they want without conscience. It’s who they are.

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    • lonely

      Thanks, i once went 10 months without him, then he appeared to have changed, i was so suckered in, i do believe he wanted to change, it was fabulous for a few months but then it all started again, i hate hindsight, he was forever saying how badly he was treated by his ex and family and i fully supported him. Strange how they work, yet when you read about them you can see the patterns so clearly. My last contact with him was 4 weeks ago, after i had insulted him by having a painter come to my house to do some work, i felt i was relieving him of a job not insulting him – he ignored me for 3 days then the barrage of abusive text messages started, he wouldn’t even speak to me, then went a text he “would come over and fuck me into the correct state of regret” stupidly i took this as flirtation and let him in the house, he treated me as if he was acting out some porn fantasy on me, being a survivor of childhood sexual abuse i felt i was paying my dues – he knew this, the next thing i know he is standing there fully clothed has packed all his stuff and says “if i dare scream rape i will surely pay” I never said rape – he did, he knew what he was doing, and now i am left with trauma all over again.

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      • lisa51

        Lonely, I have been reading articles by Kathleen Hawk on Lovefraud.com .. she has really helped me to understand a lot of things about myself.

        Below is a link to her articles .. and many many other writings which will keep your mind on working on getting to a place of healing … and dispel the cognitive dissonance.

        http://www.lovefraud.com/category/authors/kathleen-hawk/

        They are so ignorant aren’t they? I can’t believe some of the crap the one I knew would say .. I would cringe in my mind, not say anything and let it go. Decent people with integrity would NEVER say things like the N’s do. It produced a lot of shame in me that I allowed things like that ..

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        • lisa51

          Many of us are codependent at the time we get invovled with the N’s: from WebMd:

          How to Know You’re in a Codependent Relationship
          Watch out for these signs that you might be in a codependent relationship:

          Are you unable to find satisfaction in your life outside of a specific person?

          Do you recognize unhealthy behaviors in your partner but stay with him or her in spite of them?

          Are you giving support to your partner at the cost of your own mental, emotional, and physical health?

          Bingo!

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      • Carrie Reimer

        Lonely, your story is unique and yet so typical of the kind of thing an N does. He came back to suck you in again. Please do not believe he had any intention of changing, ever. Like the wospos said to me when we broke up for the last time. “It was your own fault that I hurt you, you kept taking me back.” and that is exactly they way they feel. They will cry and lie their faces off making all kinds of promises and professions of love, the whole time congratulating themselves on their acting ability and how superior to you they are because they can suck you in time after time. He used the painter as an excuse, a stupid excuse but he had to come up with something so he made a big deal out of nothing so he could get angry and discard you again. He treated you like a piece of tail, nothing but a release because that is what he thinks you are.
        When we take them back they don’t appreciate our forgiveness, they see us as pitiful and weak, not worthy of their attention, actually deserving of being treated like dirt as punishment for being stupid enough to believe them. (their thoughts not mine) believe me, I have been where you are and it feels like hell.
        you are dependent on his approval to feel good about yourself and he keeps treating you like shit so of course you need him more. The more he rejects you the more you try to win his approval and feel you need him. He tore you down and only he can put you back together. When the reality is you have to get rid of him to ever feel good about yourself again.
        To keep wishing he would change and love you is only setting yourself up for more hurt and degrading treatment. He. Never. Loved. You. He has no desire to change. He likes being superior to you. He will continue to hurt you as long as you allow him to.
        It seems totally unfair that he sucked you in, tore you to shreds, destroyed your self worth and then just walks away, leaving you in pieces. AND then to come back and do it again when you were just starting to get back on your feet is the ultimate in cruelty. I get it. I have been there. Many women have. But it is the facts of loving a narcissist.
        You can recover and you can be happy again but not as long as you keep letting him back into your life.
        That is the facts. Just like we all wish there really was a santa claus we all had to accept he didn’t really exist, no matter how much we wished it, or pretended, or how many times we sat on his knee in the mall and gave him our wish list. Santa never existed, it was a big orchestrated fairy tale and so was the narcissist who loved you.

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        • lonely

          THANKS, my head agrees with you, my heart just hurts, how could i have been so stupid – really ?? but not again, one day at a time, sometimes moment to moment – NO CONTACT is my mantra.

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          • Carrie Reimer

            Lonely, please forgive yourself for believing in him. That shame keeps us hooked on them also. We are embarrassed that we trusted them again, got sucked in again and all that does is make us want him more. We don’t want to be wrong, we want our fairytale ending so we don’t have to admit we got sucked in. it is a vicious cycle. After my ex and i got back together the last time I clung to the relationship more than ever before because i didn’t want to admit I got sucked in again. Whereas when we first got back together I thought I could walk away easily at the first sign that he hadn’t changed the exact opposite happened.
            I didn’t want to admit to family and friends I had been taken in again, I invested more into the relationship because I was determined to make it work and I stuck it out far too long.
            You can do this, it does get easier, just be kind to yourself and patient.
            Hugs

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            • lonely

              no one understands better than those who have been before me, i understand i need to forgive myself in order to move forward, my head just keeps going back in time and WHY didn’t i notice earlier, i so want to send him a e-mail/text saying “you got what you wanted – rid of me,” The no contact thing is so hard. Friday nights are the hardest, this was the last time he abused me and took it to a whole new level, as my counsellor said – ‘it was planned, executed and then he walked away’ i actually feel lucky i got away with out more severe physical pain. I invested everything i trusted him with all that i am and am that i have, only to be blamed for not being grateful for everything he did, which believe me i appreciated it and showed it, i payed my penance that Friday night, and then thought he would be happy again, the confusion is consuming at times, yet the clarity i get reading these posts and other info proves to me exactly what i was dealing with. He got great satisfaction out of breaking me down to a blithering mess and then coming and saving me, and too often had sex with me while i was still crying when all i wanted was time – he had the power. His jealousy at me having coffee at an ex partners cafe was insane, yet when i was unhappy about him staying over night at another womens – how dare i question him or do this jealousy thing, now i believe he cheated on me. i supported this man through cancer for 12 months, yet when i had surgery i had to take a taxi to and from the hospital, my worth to him was only what he could get from me, like a vampire sucking blood. I think he knows this about himself and doesn’t really like it, but just can’t change. Sorry for babbling but sometimes i need to get it out of my head and if i told people i know they would be horrified. I would tarnish his reputation and look like the miserable ex.

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  • fee

    I have tried so hard going along with not meeting and keeping him away. I give in arranged to meet but refused to be calm as I cant help it hate him….he decided its best not to turn up. I look irrational and am hurting so bad, he said even if he cheated on me …whats it matter as I hate him now. it makes me ill I protected my sexual health and he took the risks on my behalf….why am I feeling back to square one, why cant I go to the police like I want to and tell them….why am I sick inside twisted with hurt and I look cocky and irrational and unstable in my email responses…he played me like a good un. I wish I had tried to be nice now, let him see Jacob while I was there as I know now everyone in my family will pay. I know Jacob wont like him for that as he is older so it will go against him too but I feel ill. I loved that man, probably somewhere had some twisted love towards him even after everything. how he talks about that night he is right…why didn’t I go to the police? he says I was begging for it and his story is vile….why would I have wanted to go bk to him after?? it does all sound twisted. I never viewed it as rape…I viewed it as he was degrading me so he is right why would I still have wanted him. I am as sick as he is. I feel really broken. I went away with my mom and kids for afew days and that’s when I thought meet him but I cant lose the anger…I just cant lose it. I feel hate so strong. but part of me wants to meet him still…to prove to me he means nothing to me anymore then I can be nice for Jacobs sake…this is all going so badly out of control its not right. I am up in one email and down in the next. I am like him…and the courts will see it.

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  • ellie2013

    Oh Fee, you are in such pain. Makes me sad. But it appears your head is warring with your heart. You KNOW the right thing to do and that is stay away from him. HE is playing on your heart strings to get his own way. And putting you through hell once again. As he intends. WHY would you be meeting him anyways IF you are going for mediation to arrange a contact center? WHY is this all happening now before legal experts ( the mediators ) are involved? Your gut is screaming at you at this point so loud your heart has no say, and that Fee is a very good thing. Your soul knows, the entire being knows the danger you would put yourself in to meet him, place Jacob in his arms. It simply will NOT let you do it. BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE TRUTH. Your inner self will not allow you to accept his lies any more. As much as your heart wants to. You want to believe the lie, it just is not possible any longer.

    I am not sure why you think you need to be “nice”. It is not normal to be “nice” to someone that had sex with you when you could not give consent ( which is the definition of rape, btw ) , it is not normal to be “nice” to someone that locked you up naked, broke your possessions , wiped away evidence. It is not normal to be nice to someone that spit at you, called you vile names. The hate IS normal and a normal reaction to the ABUSE you suffered at his hands. You are not crazy, you are finally reacting normally to the things he did/he said. HE is twisting your reactions. He knows they are normal. HE is having alot of fun right now watching you suffer. To say that it doesn’t matter that he cheated because you hate him now, what convoluted BS. That warped statement there translates to ” I only cheated on you because I thought you would always love me”. HUH? There is NO excuse for anything HE did FEE. And he knows it so he is turning it on you.

    Right now you are scared. Scared of him. Scared of what he might do. You have a right to be scared. The man is dangerous. BUT, giving in to him is NOT going to protect you. It will only harm you and your family further. The further distance you put between him and his evil ways the better. You have to not bend to that evil because IF you do you will be putting your son in grave danger. Stop talking to him. Stop reading his e-mails stop responding to them. The more distance , the more sane you will feel. Remember when there was no contact? Remember how much better that felt and how much clearer you were thinking? THEY make us unstable with the twisting and turning our words and our thoughts.

    Why didn’t you go to the police, he asks? Well, I will almost bet it was for the same reasons Carrie had when the wospos almost chocked her to death or the reason why I didn’t go when my xnh punched me so hard in the upper arm I was black and blue from shoulder to elbow for weeks. WE thought we loved them, WE didn’t want the embarrassment of admitting to the authorities how we were living and we didn’t want to face the fact that only someone who DID NOT LOVE us could do that to us. WE made up lies we told to ourselve and believed to keep the “dream” alive in our heads. Even though the truth was right there for us to see.

    Stay strong Fee. We are here for you. Keep talking it out. It helps.

    HUGE hugs.

    Ellie

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  • freedwithin

    I don’t even know anymore how it got to meeting, it was no all along and only with someone, then I somehow agreed. Honestly I re read my emails and I think am gone …I am losing it like he his telling me. I feel really strong and able when he isn’t in touch then bang….now I cant think. He as now called the shots again and cant meet as I am the aggressor and he says I have mentally destroyed him…but its everything I feel he is saying. He takes an ounce of truth and spreads tons of lies on top….I want to get help to get sole custody but I cant afford nothing…am not myself I can feel it…am up and down and thinking about everything and nothing feels right. He is proving am irrational and I am….I am brutal in every email and then read it back and feel ashamed I spoke how I did…am so cross with myself I cant even ignore him.
    Ellie you have always spoke sense and I know in myself what I would say to someone and it would be just what your saying but when emotions are involved its just raw. I wished he had stayed away for good. x

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  • ellie2013

    Ok, so YOU agreed to meet him with Jacob and now HE will not meet? Because of the things you say? WHAT BS. He is playing with you, is all. Playing with your emotions. A GOOD father, a good MAN that only wanted to see his son, cuddle him for only a few minutes would not give 2 hoots how you felt or what you were saying. HE would keep his mouth shut and take advantage of the opportunity to hold his son IF he cared so much. Can’t you see it Fee? HE doesn’t care if he sees Jacob or not. Now it is how you are acting, next week it will be how you are NOT acting and on and on. As I said before this is NOT about Jacob, not really. This is about you and him and control. Jacob is just a pawn, a means in his sick, vile game.

    Please, please protect him from the evil, Fee.

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    • Carrie Reimer

      Fee, I can’t say much more than what Ellie has said, as usual she makes total sense. Why when JC punched his son and his son called the police and told them the truth and the cop took me aside and asked me if jc was hitting me, I lied. I looked him right in the eyes and said no, he was not hitting me. I knew the cop knew I was lying. When friends came to take Allen to safety and offered me to come along, I refused; why?
      I was sleeping with my keys under my pillow afraid he would try to kill me in my sleep and yet i lied for him and I stayed. That makes no sense to a casual observer but when you are in the middle of it and have had someone telling you all sorts of lies about yourself, when you have lived with drama and trauma for months and years and been told black is white and you are crazy you lose your ability to make rational decisions. That is why women die every day at the hands of the man they thought loved them. Depending where you live everyday at least one woman dies because their significant other or ex lover killed them. I am willing to bet everything I own that every single one of them knew in their guts it was going to happen but they couldn’t force themselves to leave.
      No matter what their gut told them no matter what past history proved to be true they didn’t want to be unfair, they didn’t want to be viewed as “not nice”
      You still want him to like you, what he thinks of you matters to you. I understand that. After JC and I split and he was with the new woman he popped up where I did business and wanted to be friends. I wanted to tell him to stick it up his ass, tell him exactly what I thought of him. I knew he was lying, I had heard the same speech several times. I wanted to say, “How fuckng stupid do you think I am to fall for the same lines AGAIN!” but I didn’t, I listened and I cried and I was “nice” Then I sent him an email saying I couldn’t do it. Then he showed up at my door feeding me the same bullshit and I didn’t slam the door in his face, I let him in. The man I knew had tried to orchestrate my death, the man who i feared would kill me, I let in the house and the whole time he performed I listened. When he left i felt horrible about myself. it was bad enough that I had allowed him to abuse me all those years but now I knew the truth and still letting him come in and destroy me. I even let the man I knew had sabotaged my truck for years, work on my truck because he was out of work, so I paid him to do an oil change on my truck. How stupid can a person be??? I paid him!!! and you know what? you guessed it. he fucked with my truck and it was just lucky I didn’t cease my engine. When my truck broke down that night and I called him, did he answer? not on your life and when he finally did call the next day he was too busy with his new woman to help me.
      How stupid did I feel, how much self hatred did I have? How much self worth did I have? I felt hopeless, unable to cope with even the most mundane daily functions. Who could I tell that I let him work on my truck? I told everyone on this blog and you know what they told me. To go no contact, stop allowing him to hurt me.
      I told them, I hadn’t contacted him, he was the one to contact me! it wasn’t MY fault. Yes it was, I responded, I talked to him, I allowed him into my house and I played “nice”. He didn’t play nice, he wanted to destroy my new truck, the one I had gotten to replace the other truck he destroyed. When my truck started running rough I got sick to my stomach, I could have thrown up; I knew he had done something and I had let him!! When a friend came out to help me the first thing he said when he looked under the hood was, “Who has been fucking with your truck?” I asked why and he showed me a bolt that had fallen off and almost fallen in my engine. he asked for a 5/16th inch wrench. I knew exactly where to find one because I had found a 5/16th inch wrench for JC only the day before. Yeah, I was angry, at myself mostly for knowing better and still letting him touch my truck.
      It still wasn’t enough for me though, I was stuck on victim. I was so stuck in denial I told myself that i was helpless to stop him from hurting me. I had given him all my strength, I felt like rolling over and just letting him destroy me and get it over with. That same part of you that is willing to take the chance that he would take Jacob from you. As much as you say you don’t want that to happen, you are willing to take that chance. Why? because then you wouldn’t have to be strong, you could give up the fight? you could admit defeat and blame him for you being hopeless and helpless, you would have a reason to give up and to hate yourself. He would win and you would lose. Maybe he would feel sorry for you, maybe he would appreciate the sacrifices you have made for him, maybe he would think you were a nice person. But you know none of that will ever happen. You know he will continue to abuse you mentally and emotionally and eventually physically again. it will happen fee, you know it as well as I knew he would muck with my truck. But I was so deep into playing my role as victim, i didn’t know who I was if I wasn’t a victim. JC had controlled my every thought and action for so long, I had hurt for so long and always had him to blame but now I only had myself to blame. I was away from him, he was with someone else, I had to put my life back together and that was damned scary, all alone. At least if he was in my life I had someone to blame for my pain, i could cling to false hope, I could stay in denial.
      It was when I found out he had gotten engaged that I really fell apart. It was over and I had to admit it. It was a full year after we had split. I had been doing ok by myself, had even gone 10 months of no contact (because he hadn’t contacted me). then he contacted me and I fell apart, I was right back to square one.
      I knew I had to save myself. and that was when I wrote him an email asked him to stay away, I wrote 14 pages, listing all the things he ever did to hurt me, I laid it out how he had been coming to me professing his love even though he was engaged to another woman. I said that I had not contacted him in 10 months and I wanted him to leave me alone and I cc’d her. He showed up one more time where I did business, only this time she was in the vehicle and he handed me an envelop and walked away. In the envelop was a letter from him telling me I had to get on with my life, he had found the woman he loved and would not be there for me ever again.
      They always have to get the last word and the last punch in. but I have not heard from him since (except to try to slander me on line) but I gave him no opening to contact me. I blocked him every where I could, I had blown his cover with her so she was on to him, he knew that any contact he had with me I would tell her so he couldn’t take that chance. I am sure he was super pissed off and I am sure that is why he slandered me and tried to get me fired etc. But if I was to ever get rid of him, stop the abuse I had to make a stand.
      I was going crazy, just like you. On an emotional roller coaster I could not get off, but then I just closed my eyes and jumped because I knew I was killing myself. My actions did not make sense, my thoughts were erratic, I was not functioning, not taking care of the things I needed to in order to heal and have a life. I am sure I should have been hospitalized I was in such an emotional state. I could put on a pretty good front in front of people but my mind was driving me crazy.
      I knew after I sent that email I could never contact him again, I couldn’t and not look like the nut case he said I was. I wrote many that i never sent and I spilled my guts on here and everyone listened and told me the same things – stay no contact
      accept the truth and let it go
      move to another town if I had to in order to stop obsessing about him ( stopped doing business with that company) and I did move to a place he didn’t know about.
      Once I had removed any way he could pop out of nowhere and blocked his email and his FB I started to get my sanity back.
      He is messing with you, he might as well be poking pins in a voodoo doll, he know exactly what buttons to push to get a reaction from you and yes he is trying to drive you crazy or make you look crazy. Like Ellie said, if he cared about Jacob, he wouldn’t care what you said or how he feel, he would see his son. It is all about control, driving you over the brink, if he is lucky he will drive you to kill yourself and then he will have proof you were unstable. He is a sick son of a bitch.
      Get mad, you have every right to be mad as hell but stop wasting your breath responding to him. He is not making sense and you are going crazy trying to make sense of it and make him play fair and nice.
      It is time you end all contact and get the hell out of there if you can. I don’t know how much your house is worth but you are putting a lot of weight on the sale of that house but you say the bank is going to take it from you. I know you don’t want to ruin your credit, and the house is all you have and you don’t want to lose everything. I felt that way about my truck too, it was my only asset, it was my income, I fought to keep it with everything i had and lost it anyway. I know that you don’t want to admit defeat, your pride is involved too and you don’t want to need help but I am tempted to say,
      let the bank take the house and get the hell out of there, away from him, start fresh in another town away from him. I know it is scary, I am still going through it myself and I am 56 but I am at such peace with my life now.
      I want to send you back the money you sent me also. Do you have paypal? i will have money in my paypal at the end of the month and I will try to refund your money but i don’t know if it will be possible. But you need it more than me right now.
      my thoughts and prayers are with you Fee, you are not crazy, you just need to step back and take a breath, get your health back, you are overwhelmed and undoubtedly near a nervous breakdown and you can not battle him right now. You need to stop right now. do not read another email, do not reply, do not worry about what is right for anyone but you and what is best for Jacob is for you to be healthy. Dave can stick a flag pole up his ass and rotate til hell freezes over.
      I love you Fee, please take care of yourself. Big hugs and prayers.

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  • freedwithin

    I think I have proved myself needy and insane via email and his clever filming that night to have tried and believed he would get to see Jacob and of course if I didn’t behave it wouldn’t look good on me.
    However, your right, he played me so bad and he as now a case against me. I look at my emails to him and just want to despair with myself as I do look all what you both said dave will look. I just feel so so tired.
    Carrie, I don’t need the money back…I swallowed my pride and wrote to my debtors…some are being abit crap but the main ones are being nice and I don’t need to pay anything for 6 mths and then I will be assessed myself again…my mortgage now I only need to pay 125 a mth towards as I have claimed benefits…something I didn’t want to do but I have. I have enough now and atleast my house is being paid…but I have put it on the market…and took it down 25k in the hope for a quick sale. He even said he would help there….I think am just concerned I have misjudged him….I know on here everyone tells me as it is…I never wanted to play victium and always thought I was tough and not one…but am a sucker to emotions and would give my heart if it meant someone else was saved. I hate that about myself and I try to convience myself he is evil etc but he says something and am back kicking myself for going against what I do naturally…which is care. He as remained calm in his emails and I have been up and down. If I don’t play ball I know I will lose Jacob…but reading what you both put I will no doubt lose him anyway….by fighting,…ignoring …or doing nothing. Once this chapter is sorted…or while it is being sorted I am going to try take care of myself and lose weight and try get my confidence back…once I get my health in place and not this constant pain and fighting with him I know I will be back ok. I may need your statement carrie as he is coming out with so many witnesses I have no one…and I haven’t even met these people. He knows so much on my family and as the power to destroy my children and he is going for it…I feel so sick I met this man and I know in time when Jacob is older he may understand the evil in his dad but I am at a loss

    Liked by 1 person

    • ellie2013

      Fee, if you go NC and you do not read his emails then you will not have to listen to his threats. Hard for him to threaten someone that shows no response. Not much fun for him either. I am sure he has one of those programs that show whether you have opened his mail. Try to ignore them. If you have gmail , it can be set up to send anything from his email to go to a certain folder so you would not even need to see them come into your in box. I know you think you need to stay in contact with him on a constant basis but really why? Are you in touch with your ex husband on a daily basis? He does not have to be a part of your life. That is your feelings. No court anywhere will force you to stay in constant contact with him. As I said, a weekly email out lining Jacobs progress should satisfy any court. An email devoted to just Jacob. NOTHING about you. I believe there are posts somewhere on this blog re how some women have handled it and some sad posts where they have made mistakes also. Perhaps reading them would help.

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    • Carrie Reimer

      Fee I already refunded one of your donations last night.
      I will write something for you this weekend and email it to you. I hope it will help.
      I am thinking you are so overwhelmed right now that anything Ellie or I say is just adding to your overall anxiety. You are on overload and not processing anything and operating strictly on emotion and your emotions are heightened and confused and erratic which is adding to your anxiety and it is just a vicious cycle that get worse and you know it is getting worse but you can’t stop it which adds to your anxiety …….. and my God it builds and builds until something breaks.
      I have been there Fee, the whole time I was typing or talking I was telling myself not to do it, knowing I was taking the bait he was dangling and yet helpless to stop myself and all the while knowing i was making things worse for myself.
      I would get panicky, anxiety ridden, pacing, feeling I had to solve the problem now, deal with it, make it go away, prove something, make him stop saying horrible things about me, prove I was sane etc etc.
      What you need to do is stop for a minute. Just stop. take a deep breath and take things one at a time.
      Force your mind to stop projecting all the bad things that “could” happen, you are worrying about things that haven’t happened, that might not happen and it is not helping you.
      You are believing a proven liar and bully and he does not have you or your son’s best interests at heart.
      You must stop reading his emails – it is the only way to clear your head and get your emotions levels and take back control of your head and your life.
      I know you think you have to read his emails because you need to know what he is going to do, you have to be nice or look bad to the courts but what he is doing is harassing you and it is mental abuse.
      Like Ellie advised, send him a weekly email pertaining to Jacob and only jacob. Do not respond to any comments he makes concerning your mental state or your actions. you can do it Fee. Stop feeding the monster.
      You agreed to meet him and then he refused. you are off the hook.
      end of game. You can play the same game he is. He badgered you and guilted you into agreeing to meet and then refused because you had a bad attitude. Ok, so now you can say I gave you what you wanted and you didn’t take it, now the ball is back in my court and we play by my rules. You do not have to jump every time he says jump.
      You HAVE to stand firm Fee, he will do this for the next 18 years if you don’t. He will badger you with demands and blackmail you forever more. It has to stop and the only person who can stop it is you.
      You feel you are acting irrational and insane. HE is the one acting disordered!!! and he is turning it back on you, so typical.
      A normal man who wants to see his child does not badger the mother and call her names and crazy. To begin with a normal man would not have drugged you and had sex with you and no matter what he says happened you know the truth and so does he.
      It is so typical of him to deny deny deny, twist the event in his favor. He has a video, let him show it. He won’t because he knows it will show you were drugged and not consenting.
      A while back I gave you the contact info for a woman who was being blackmailed by her ex N and she finally stood up to him and her life has changed 100% for the better. Did you ever contact her? She is in England and knows the courts and legal system there and she was willing to meet with you.
      Start building your case. I hope you have saved all his emails and I hope you have kept track of events. If you have you can put things in chronological order and it will show how disordered he is and prove you have been coerced, blackmailed and have every right to be an emotional wreck.
      You can;t see it because you are in the middle of it and he is pushing your buttons but believe me, his veiled threats, and erratic moods will show through. One minute nice, then threatening, then playing the victim.
      It is impossible to act rationally when you are dealing with insanity. You are trying to do the right thing, be a responsible woman/mother, you want to be fair, you are still trying to make sense of it all, you are still acting like you are dealing with a normal person. That is why you feel so crazy. You are dealing with crazy; you will never be able to make crazy into normal no matter how hard you try.
      Didn’t social services tell you that if you allowed him access to Jacob they would take Jacob away from you? Or am I mistaken?
      If so, go to them and tell them he is harassing you and threatening you and you need a protection order.
      I know what it is like when they don’t let up, I know how crazy you feel. Even now if I read something JC has written about me that is a lie I want to contact him and make him admit the truth, take it back but I know how useless that would be and I would only be giving him what he wants. If I responded in anyway he would know he was still able to get to me and I will not give him the ego boost he needs.
      Dave is still feeding off of you, every time you respond he is getting an ego boost off of it. Stop feeding the monster. Ond day at a time do not read those emails.
      Hugs

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  • lonely

    Hi Fee, i don’t know you or your situation, BUT no contact is how i am holding onto what little self respect i have left while re-building, the N’s are monsters and my ex N gave up all parental rights, personally i don’t believe they can even love their own children, i saw how my ex N treated his child and he got angry and frustrated at a 4 year old that was not normal anger or frustration at a child, your child could possibly be better off without him ??? Just a thought and experience. Let the courts deal with him.

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  • freedwithin

    I have been so down this week and I know its because he as pestered me. He as set me up a good one and he stated I will lose Jacob either way….meaning he will get him or he will be put in care. He seriously doesn’t care about me being his mother. This was a game and he as me that night losing the plot and now he even shows me the contact centre he rung up about says I am being difficult and causes drama and stress for david as I love him and want him back. I put up a fight but am drained mentally and physically and all I get is how damaged I am and he has proof. I am sickened. My years of being a good mom now is being ripped from me. I have gone no contact again and I will do my best. I was so strong and altogether and it just shows what contact does.
    Carrie I really don’t want the money back, I have money I have sorted out my income and I don’t need to pay my debt for 6 mths yet and by then I hope to have sold my house and will pay it off and start over. You started with nothing atleast I will start with enough to do it up. Please please accept what I sent it was sent in good faith and I will send more whenever I have it as your doing so good and have really kept me strong. Please.
    I will disappear for awhile and get myself thinking straight again. Jacob was crying last night….more or less first time in 3 mths as he is so quiet bless him, I think he as picked up on my stress and it was like he was having a tantrum…all my energy is to go to them now. I don’t need or want a fella.
    Thank you for all your help everyone, it stuck out about being a victim and I don’t want to be or play it so I will get tough again. I think I need 5 mins to just cry it all out and then I will be good x

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    • ellie2013

      Oh Fee :(

      This statement says it all “He seriously doesn’t care about me being his mother”. I think you may have had an aha moment. And those moments hurt like hell when we have them. If it helps any, Dave can not care, he isn’t wired to, the part of his brain that controls the empathy sensors is disconnected from the rest of it. So how a “normal” person would treat and react to their babies Mama isn’t possible for him. A child to them is kinda like acquiring a new car. It’s great at first, they wash it , clean it, show it off. Then the “newness” wears off. It has an annoying “clink” here, a maddening drop of oil there and now they have seen a new model they want more. So it gets parked in the garage or traded in. It became too much trouble or wasn’t getting them the attention they so badly thrive on. YOU were just a vessel, kinda like the factory that produced the “car”. You just did what you were supposed to do. Now, in his mind , you have no rights on his “property”. To try and get him to “feel” anything remotely related to an emotional feeling is futile and time wasting. But, I think you are finally seeing that.

      You still keep mentioning the “recording” and I am still going to say that one episode of losing it can’t and won’t make much of a difference. And the question still remains WHY would someone be prepared to record at any given point in time? What kind of “person” is that prepared if they are not planning what they are doing? I would almost bet the mortgage that he pushed you into reacting how you did so he could tape it. So he could forever and a day hold it over you. What does that tell you about Dave?

      You be ok Fee. It sounds to me you are almost on your way to acceptance of the situation. Acceptance of what Dave IS and not what you hope he would be. And acceptance that you will not find a way to make him “care” about you. Getting to that place is exhausting and emotional but once you accept it, embrace it and mourn you come out the other side stronger with a more realistic picture of what is and especially what is not.

      You are right, babies sense our emotions. I am sure poor little Jacob feels your tenseness and you emotional upheaval. BUT, kids are more resilient than we are. No permanent damage will occur. Just take some quiet time with him and cuddle. Forget everything but him for a few minutes. Give him a hug from Auntie Ellie!

      Love you both!

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    • Carrie Reimer

      Fee, I read this comment after my last response. You sound a bit better and like you are thinking clearer again.
      Yes babies do pick up on our emotions and anxiety but like Ellie said go snuggle him and all will be well again.
      Have a good cry, wash those toxics out of your body, crying is good and cleansing, take deep breathes and calm yourself.
      Take things one step at a time and try to not project too far into the future. No contact is so good, I am so relieved to hear you say that.
      My prayers and positive thoughts are with you.
      Love and hugs to you and Jacob!

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  • freedwithin

    I cant say much at this moment in time….but my email account as been hacked and the last 3 emails I sent to dave are missing. It just seems odd…maybe my computer is playing up and it will turn up but just incase please don’t say anything else as he will have seen where I come and I know him…if he as he as already copied everything I wrote…which I am not bothered about but I didn’t want him to know my feelings at all….am just hoping am wrong. Sorry everyone x

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