Be Very Careful When You Ask For Help

I had too much pride to ask for much help when I was with JC, plus I knew that if I accepted help it would come with conditions; the main one being I could not go back to JC and I was not prepared to make that commitment. I did receive help and when I did the exact thing I had feared happened, I would end up going back and the person who helped me would be pissed off. Rightly so I suppose; so I stopped asking for help. I also felt disloyal if I talked about him and he would get furious if he suspected I had. He always said, “You must have said something awful about me to your folks because no matter what I do they still hate me. Or he would say, “You only ever tell people the bad things I do, you never tell them all the nice stuff I do for you. I don’t know how he knew these things but he was successful in getting me to not talk about our relationship with anyone. On top of that I had left and gone back so many times I there was no point in complaining about how he treated me, everyone knew I could say it was over in the morning and by that night he and I would be a couple again. So I stopped talking about the relationship and pretended everything was fine which wasn’t hard because my family had disowned me and I had isolated myself from all my friends.

Eventually if you cry wolf too many times you find that there is no one to cry to or ask to help. You have burned all your bridges and no one wants to hear about it any more and they are sick of helping just to have you go back a few days or weeks later. You lose your credibility, people doubt that it is as bad as you say, if it was…. why would you go back time after time? maybe once he could fool you into believing he has changed, but come on….. 5-6 times?? Even if it is as bad as you say, they have helped before and it did no good so they give up. 

This is a double edged sword, you lose all the way around. Every time you go back to the narcissist he wins more ground, you lose more of your support network, he gains control and the abuse gets more severe. If the abuse wasn’t physical the more times you go back the more confident the abuser is that he can beat you and you will stay, besides where will you go? everyone has given up on you and he knows it. It is all part of the plan; destroy your support system before he destroys you.  By the time the abuse gets to the point where you truly fear for your life you have no where to go and are so beaten down and dependent on him you feel you can’t leave.

It was very hard for me to leave JC the last time. I didn’t think I had the strength to start all over yet again, I had no friends, no one to even talk to, I had never felt more alone or in more danger. I knew I would be doing it all alone and I had given him 2 more years to whittle away at my self esteem, destroy my business and clean me out of every resource I had. By the time I left the last time I had nothing left to rebuild with and this time he didn’t come begging me to take him back; why would he? he had succeeded at what he set out to do; use me up and toss me aside, garbage, useless, not wanted by anyone, a nobody and easy to walk away from.

I want to stress how important it is to make the decision to leave and be sure when you do that you stick with it. It is better to stay until you are positive you want to leave than to keep leaving and going back. Many time the victim will leave thinking it will teach the N a lesson, show that you mean business and when he comes begging you to come back you think he has come to the realization he has to treat you better or he will lose you, but that is not the way it works. Reality is; the N learns he can do anything he wants and you will still come back, you lose any support you have and the abuse gets worse. Now the narcissist is angry you left and when he wins you back he will make you pay for having the audacity to leave him. I was very stupid, and lucky to be alive because what I liked to think was a love so strong we couldn’t stay away from each other was in actual fact me setting myself up for the slaughter. The most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is when the victim is planning to leave or has just left the relationship. 70% of domestic homicides happen when the relationship ends.

As I have said before, plan your escape well and without his knowledge, make it as quit as possible and immediately go no contact. Yes he will be furious and he will probably stalk you, harass you, flood your phone with horrible text messages, cry, rage; he will not take it well, but he never takes it well and if you try to “wean” yourself off of him, break it to him gently, remain friends, discuss things or any other civilized approach to leaving it will work against you every time. You have to keep reminding yourself that they are sick, they are liars, and they do not have a conscience; you are in danger.

Last week on one of my posts a woman named Jill commented that she was being held against her will in a trailer behind Broken Bow Inn in Broken Bow OK by a woman who is her lover. I was concerned for her, she sounded desperate and very scared, I did up a separate post asking if anyone was familiar with Harrah OK (At first I didn’t know what Broken Bow was and had searched Jill’s IP number and come up close to Harrah). Jill commented on that post thanking me for trying to help her. Anyone who wants to read the conversation Jill had with me and Ellie the post is here http://wp.me/p1wKh3-3gq

Over the course of several days Jill shared with Ellie and I some pertinent information, she gave us her full name and age, where she used to live, and she told us that she had been married to an abusive man and the woman she was with now had rescued her from her abusive husband. She gave us her husband’s full name also. I immediately did a search on Jill’s name which came up exactly like she said, she had lived in the town she stated and the age matched. Then Ellie emailed me a link to Jill’s ex husband’s criminal record. When his picture came up on my screen I inadvertently gasped. He was the scariest looking dude I have seen in a while. He sent chills down my spine, he looked exactly the way a psychopath should look. So it was obvious that Jill had been honest about who she was and I was convinced she was indeed in danger. 

I told Jill it might take me a few days but I was going to get her help to get out of there. She was very concerned about her dog and would not leave her dog behind and very afraid of this woman. She kept saying she knew she was going to die out there in that trailer, she told us she had been beaten the day before and the woman was saying she was going to have her committed or arrested if she tried to escape. Ellie found the number for Broken Bow PD but Jill panicked when Ellie mentioned it and begged that we not contact the local police because the woman holding her was well connected in the town and the police would do nothing and she would just get in trouble and probably beaten.

I started searching for someone who could and would help Jill. I am not familiar with US laws etc, we have the RCMP up here and that is it, in the US there are sheriffs, police, FBI; I wasn’t sure who to approach about it so I looked for organizations helping domestic abuse victims. There was one right in Broken Bow but I didn’t want to take the chance they would be on the side of the abuser so I emailed a woman’s shelter in Tulsa. That was last Saturday, and on Monday I had a reply from them giving me a list of various resources in the nearby towns. I found one that was about 1/2 an hour out of Broken Bow and emailed to see if they could suggest what I should do. I told them the pertinent details and offered to send them a copy of the conversation with Jill if they wanted. I never heard back from them at all. Then it was Wednesday night and I had not heard a word from Jill in two days so I felt probably Lisa (the other woman) was figuring out something was up and I had better get Jill help as soon as possible. I found the number for the FBI in Oklahoma and using their tips contact form emailed them the details, Jill’s full name, her previous address, her ex husband’s full name (I figured they would recognize the name and it might motivate them to move quickly. I offered to send them a copy of the conversation and asked for their advice on what I should do as I am from Canada. I added that i had not heard from her in 2 days and was concerned.

There was nothing from them or Jill the next morning but Thursday mid day I got a message from Jill. All it said was. “The FBI showed up today,……I got beaten………help!

And that is it. Not another word.

I felt ill. 

I pray she is ok, but I know she isn’t, even if she is ok physically she is not ok mentally. She made a few very common and danger mistakes. Number one was to get involved with someone right away; whether it is a woman or a man, she put herself in the position of being reliant on someone else, and trusted someone who appeared to have her best interests at heart but was acting for selfish reason’s. She jumped from the frying pan into the fire. She didn’t give herself time to heal from the first abusive relationship, she didn’t do any work on herself or deal with any of the psychological scars left by the first abuser and packed all that baggage into the next relationship. When you first leave it may feel as if you are not strong enough to do it on your own but to accept help from someone who wants to be your lover is not the help you need. 

Second, she asked for help to get away and when it came she didn’t take it. I am sure the FBI will not respond as quickly next time and if I ever have the need to ask for their help again I am sure they will not be as apt to act as quickly. 

I have to say I am impressed at how quickly they responded, I fully expected to not hear a word from them. i wish I knew exactly what transpired but I probably will never know what happened or what will eventually happen to Jill. 

Everyone please say a prayer for Jill and her dog.

 

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45 thoughts on “Be Very Careful When You Ask For Help

  1. Great advice in here Carrie, as ever. I thought that leaving my abuser would ‘teach him a lesson’, and he made all sorts of promises until I went back. Guess what – nothing had changed, and in many ways the abuse got worse because I had showed him I was capable of leaving him.

    Injured pride, rage, deepened insecurity – all of it made him more determined to control me so I wouldn’t get any unwelcome ideas about leaving again.

    Second time I left, same story. Third time I stayed gone – but only because *I* had learned *my* lesson!

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    • Third time I stayed gone – but only because *I* had learned *my* lesson!
      That line says it all. That was the same with me. I lived on promises, lies and wishful thinking and every time I went back he made me pay for having the audacity to leave and do well without him. That is why it was so much worse when I went back the last time. If I had not gone back the last time I would have not had near the financial problems or health problems that i have now. He knew he had to lay it on really thick to get me to come back that time and he did. My gut was telling me not to do it but I was still wishing for my fairy tale happy ending and I thought because he came to me after being apart for months that he must have realized how much he really loved me or else why would he bother? It was because he hated the fate that I was doing well on my own and he had to make me pay dearly for that. He hadn’t succeeded in destroying me so he had to come back and do the job well, he had his pride and reputation to uphold.
      Hugs

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  2. I do get what you are saying. I went through that situation a couple of times with my abusive ex-husband. You’re trying to send home the message, they better change, or you’re gone for good! Doesn’t happen. The abuse just gets worse each time you go back trying to save a dying marriage.

    When my children became really endangered, then I acted! I pressed charges, he was hauled off to jail in handcuffs, and that was the last I saw of him! He got 6 years in the state prison, and 6 years probation, and I divorced his butt, while the judge terminated his parental rights!

    I found a cheap, but clean small trailer,and the kids said it was the happiest time of their lives. Buck movie night, I’d buy a cheap pizza, some popcorn, and the latest movie.

    Once a month I’d take them on a $10.00 vacation. I’d rent a state park lot by the lake, we had weenie and marshmallow roasts by campfire. By day, it was swimming and sunbathing on the lake, and you never saw any happier kids! They were in heaven! At last, peace reigned supreme!

    Ultimately what I learned out of it, is the best place a helping hand is at the end of your own arm. I had to face a lot of ugly truths, and stand on my own two feet!

    Sure, I had some help here and there, from a pro bono attorney helping with the divorce, the sheriff’s department to haul his ass off, and court judge, and county prosecutor doing their parts to help!

    ut it all had to start and end with me! Once I accepted that simple truth, everything else fell into place. That’s all any of us can do once we become willing to demand change!

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  3. You did great Carrie! Worked a miracle for Jill, with God’s help. Her not leaving with the FBI does not take anything away from what you accomplished. I feel sorry for her and will, have been praying, but as you say , we may never know,

    IMO, there is a difference in wanting help and being rescued. Some women want to be rescued even though they appear to be asking for help. They are not just addicted to the abuser they are addicted to having “someone” in their life. Whoever it may be. They need to be able to say it, feel it, claim it. THAT, having someone, IS their “worth”. The abuse, when they have a moment of clarity, works for them, in some ways. Of course, no one wants to be beat, it frankly hurts, physically, but , physical abuse, can help get you into another relationship, the “knight in shining amour ” syndrome, I call it. The person that does the rescuing then becomes “responsible” for you, physically and emotionally. And the cycle continues. Also, N’s love to up one another. As you tell your sad tale to another N, they are thinking( as JC so aptly verbalized to you ) “If she thinks that was BAD I will show her what bad really is!” In their minds, being worse that what you are getting away from IS BETTER, if that makes any sense. Makes them more powerful, and that is really what it is about with them, POWER, the power to destroy.

    There is alot of good solid help in these pages. Every single facet of an N relationship is covered here, The struggles before, during and after. But as MFlower said, the thing that will help most is YOURSELF. ONLY you yourself can WANT to get out and stay out. Hard to accept the fact that there are many that will NEVER leave, no matter how hard we try , no matter how many facts we put in front of them. No matter how much support we give. All we can do is pray and know we tried.

    Big HUGS to everyone that posts here and is trying in their own way! Ya’ll are really angels!

    Ellie

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    • You are so right Ellie. I had never thought of the N getting off on being the “better abuser” They get a real ego boost from taking another man’s woman away from him and I am sure Lisa got a huge shot of ns from taking a man’s woman. Never even thought of it until now. Of course. And to have Jill now in her complete control just adds to it.
      I was wondering if Jill was always this way or if it has developed over time because of the abuse. She said she had a great career etc. The worst thing she could have done was to immediately get involved in a love relationship again.
      I found that after I split from JC I always had men wanting to take advantage of my vulnerability, usually married men that offered help but there was always the “hug” or kiss as thanks and the talk of how unhappy they were in their marriage. It was such a turn off and pissed me off. I guess they thought I should be flattered but I was insulted that they thought so little of me they expected me to prostitute myself. There is always some vulture waiting to pick the bones after an N is done with his victim. I thank God I have never needed a man in my life and JC was the anomaly and not the rule.

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  4. Carrie, can’t you call the FBI again to find out what really happened? Show them the newest email from Jill? Ugh, so disgusting. I can’t believe they would not have forcibly taken her out of there!

    You are so right on about the Narcs…my ex used the EXACT same words as yours…blaming me for turning everyone against him and “bashing him behind his back”. My mom used to say, “It’s not bashing when you are just recounting a true story.” They bash themselves by their own actions but either they are too stupid or in denial to see it or they see it just fine but just want to rewrite history. Either way, both of those scenarios are SICKNESSES and we MUST leave to stop the madness. God knows the abuser won’t stop the madness…it is his fuel and lifeblood.

    I bet, like me, you never really did “bash” JC. I constantly would ask any friends and family (especially those with healthy marriages), “Why would he rage at me for asking him to be kind to me? Do you think I said it the wrong way? I phrased it the way the relationship books said to but he still raged and called me names and said it was all my fault so I ended up apologizing. Does your husband do this to you? What can I change in myself to make him kinder to me? He says I’m at least half to blame but won’t tell me how. Can you tell me how since you have such a good marriage you must know some trick I don’t?” So, the irony is I would bash myself up and down trying to figure out what I could do to change myself in hopes it would change him. Don’t EVER fall for the “it takes two” crap that misinformed therapists and abusers like to dish out. It simply isn’t true.

    Hope you can get the FBI back on this! This is probably a severe case of a woman being blamed for bashing her girlfriend when she is simply calling for help from the abuse as we were once. Please keep us posted. Seems the FBI would keep you posted too, I hope!!

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    • The FBI could not make her leave if she had not committed a crime and didn’t want to leave. That is the beauty of living in the US and any other free country. WE have free will and the right to live our life as we see fit. we can make mistakes and put ourselves in dangers path, if we want to. Not every person that attempts suicide is assigned a “personal” body guard forever more after to stay with them 24/7 to make sure they will not attempt it again. Same with domestic abuse. They can not force anyone to “get out”, In some states, there is A LAW which says if the police responds to a DV call, and there is evidence of violence ( red marks, an admission that someone hit someone etc) then one of the parties is going to jail, no choice. BUT, when this happens, in most cases, it is the woman that was abused that is BEGGING the police to NOT take him to jail!!!! And she is the one bonding the abuser out of jail. They give her all sorts of literature, directions to file charges, but they can not file on her behalf, she has to be the one to stand up, like some of the brave women in here, in her own defense, and take the steps, to get the abuse to stop. And in most cases, also, the only way to get the abuse to stop is to get away. Unfortunately, abused women sometimes want it both ways, they want the abuse to stop but want to stay with the abuser. N or not, when it comes to abuse, NC is the only way really. And the will to want a better life, even if it is alone. Every single persons fate is in their own hands. She was blessed she was given the opportunity to get out, she apparently did not take it.

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      • Ellie, everything you said is so very true, sadly. I was there myself, lying to the police to protect JC, dropping the charges. It got to the point I wished he would just kill me and get it over with so I could stop wondering when and how he was going to do and it would be over. I didn’t think i could leave. But eventually the realization of how crazy it all was hit me and I knew I had to go. I did it in a haze but I got out. Ultimately the responsibility lies in the victims hands. The victim survives on promises, lies and wishful thinking until they leave or the abuser eventually kills them. There are only two ways an abusive relationship ends 1. someone leaves 2. someone dies.

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      • OMG, Carrie…my ex’s mom said the same thing to me and then I came to the same realization that HE was talking to HER about us so it was his own guilt he was projecting on me. WOW! They really are one and the same demon living in many different bodies. His mother was clearly afraid of him as he pays her bills and I understood she wouldn’t want to rock that boat.

        You have done an amazing thing, Carrie, with how hard you tried to get Jill help. It’s just so hard for me to believe that she refused to leave with the FBI…that there might be more to the story? But you have done all you could and WAY MORE than many people would…thank you for your kind soul!!!

        Ellie, thanks for replying. I didn’t know that she refused to leave? Ugh, so sad. I was in a physically abusive relationship with my son’s dad. I had to call the cops on him. The cops pressed charges. I did not. I’m not exactly sure how the laws work but that is what happened in my case and I was happy to take the help! Yes, my ex called later that night from jail and asked me to bail him out. I let the machine get it and was shocked at his nerve. There was NO WAY in hell I was doing that. I was luckily not fully caught up in that cycle the way I read that many women are and I changed the locks the next morning. He never hit me but he broke things and would try to knock doors down to get me. This happened a couple of times. The night he pinned me on the bed by the neck was the night I called 911. We had been together four years before this started and it only started after my son was born. He was insanely jealous of his own son. I insisted on therapy while we lived apart to see if his repentance was real. It was not. A year later he claimed he never abused me at all and I walked from the relationship once and for all because I sure as heck was not going to let my son witness that sort of behavior from a man who was supposed to be a father and role model. I knew my son would be better off with me as a single mom and safe and happy.

        When I met the narc I immediately found out if he had any history of physical abuse since I had never dealt with that before my son’s dad and would never do it again, even the “little” amount I had dealt with in comparison to some women. So, of course I thought I found Prince Charming when his past seemed so squeaky clean….little did I know that the Narc’s verbal, mental, and emotional abuse and bullying would feel TEN TIMES WORSE than the physical. He also was insanely jealous of my son and would bully him, too! Ugh, amazing when you see this from supposedly ‘grown’ men. Now I’ve experienced both types of abusers and left both types as soon as it became clear what I was dealing with and God willing I never will again even attract these predators because I see the warning signs now. I am a healthy cynic now. 🙂

        Many prayers for Jill that she GETS OUT!! Thank you again, Carrie, for caring for victims so much! Thanks, Ellie, for your answers!

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        • Over It, they really are so much alike, after my own experiences and 3 years of having this blog I feel like a fortune teller sometimes. When I was with JC I thought our relationship was so special, we had a “connection” that we were meant to be yadayadayada…. I truly believed he was incapable of saying he loved another woman or having sex with another woman while he was with me. it wasn’t until the last 2 years that all of that came out. He also went years without hitting me so I thought that he and I had figured out how to disagree without it getting physical (I would choose me words SO carefully, never accuse him of anything, “suggest” things, use “I feel” statements, listen without interrupting, anticipate things that would make him angry, kept exact account of my finances so there was no disagreement about me owing him money, paid my own way and his 1/2 the time, but that final 2 years he would fabricate things to be mad about. There was no winning with him, it was insanity, it was like he had been holding it all in for so long and just blew!! He loathed me and hated the fact that i was breathing his air, eating his food, using “his” laundry soap.
          How did you know that your second husband hadn’t ever been physically abusive in the past? I have always been very aware of that with any man I dated, any sign of being controlling, jealous, physically abusive I kicked him to the curb in a heart beat and never looked back. That is why I was so surprised with JC. I actually thought for the first year that he was rather spineless. My first husband had been a real bar room brawler and I had gotten so sick of it but he had never laid a hand on me. I threw pots at his head when I was pregnant and he was going hunting instead of finishing the baby’s room and all he did was pour me a nice bubble bath. LOL With JC he wouldn’t even swear if he bashed his hand with a hammer, or some guy could rip him off and he wouldn’t say or do anything. He was a big enough guy and in excellent shape so he could have done damage to most any guy but he let guys take advantage of him all the time. It kinda bothered me because I like a guy to defend himself and to feel like he could defend and protect me if need be but I let it go because I thought it really wasn’t a flaw and so much nicer than a guy who was always looking for a fight in the bar. I never in a million years thought he would be abusive. I think that is why I stayed. We had been together about a year when we were having an argument about money he said I owed him and I didn’t owe him any money. I raised my voice and yelled at him that I didn’t know what he wanted from me to prove I didn’t owe him that money. Before I knew what happened he slammed on the brakes, and had me down on the floor of the truck with his hands around my throat. I remember struggling but he was too strong and then everything went black. The last thing that went through my mind was, “He is going to feel so bad when he realizes he killed me.” and then he let go and i was gasping for air.
          He just started the truck and drove home. He had stopped right in the middle of the road. When we got home I said something about him being an asshole and he called me an ungrateful cunt. Later I thought he must feel so bad. I thought maybe he had a brain tumor or something. He was extremely jealous of my son also and used to purposely set my son up to get mad and then he would call the cops and want to charge my son with uttering threats.
          I guess that is why I try so hard to explain to victims what they are dealing with because I really didn’t know. I was so much like a fish out of water, I had never experienced anything like him before in my life. I could not get my head around the fact that he was what he was.
          No one could believe I stayed with him, everyone else could see it accept me. If I can save someone else even a little bit of the pain I suffered by educating them about what they are dealing with then it wasn’t all in vain.
          He thinks I am being vindictive but I really am not; I am just trying to make it something I can live with. I really admire the women who left even after 2 or 3 times. I really wish I would have been as strong with him as I had been in the past. I don’t really know why he was able to get to me like he did when my whole life no man ever had that kind of control over me. I did not take shit from any man.

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          • Oh gosh, Carrie…so much to say. Of course he accuses you of being vindictive…another tactic to make you the bad one just for telling the truth. They really are lame and pathetic, aren’t they? Oh yeah, I get the “his” laundry soap bit. They are so selfish and territorial and don’t want anyone really sharing their space. I know that one full well. Yes, I did all the “I feel…when you…” statements and NOTHING works with them. My ex prided himself in never hitting a woman and from what I could find out there was nothing. He was all about image. I didn’t realize he did his abuse with words, gaslighting, silent treatment, etc, etc. I also witnessed my ex have amazing self control when his teen daughter was lying and setting him up and he knew it yet he’d fly into a rage because my son left something on the floor. While his daughter lied to his face (a big planned out lie…too many details to list) I remember thinking he would blow…instead this eerie calm came over him and I remember noticing he didn’t even blink! It was like he went into a trance. It was so strange. She was daddy’s little girl so she could rope him into this big lie but if my son chewed with his mouth open at four years old there would be hell to pay! I used to notice that it was all about manners instead of morals with him. They way things looked were far more important to him than the way things really were. They don’t make sense. When the daughter was outed by me on her lie she ran to her room crying and playing the victim. I remember thinking she had learned well from him. Maybe that’s why he didn’t rage at her? He was too proud of her for becoming like him? I don’t even say that in jest. I honestly can’t figure it out. She was the only one he “seemed” to have empathy for at times…but not always. She can’t stand him like the rest of us. But why they remain calm even seems calculated to me. They don’t seem to do anything unless it benefits them. And even if he was calm with her it was for some self-serving reason (he wanted her to worship him) but usually I think he just displaced his anger at her onto me and my son. My guess is maybe that is what JC did. They really ARE cowards and bullies and only pick on those they think of as weaker than them…those they have systematically broken down to be their scapegoat. Lastly, I understand not being about to get your head around the fact of WHAT THEY ARE. Even with a Yale educated therapist who works for the courts telling me my ex is a “rare” Narc with psycho tendencies (as well as a bit of sadism, Machiavellianism, and PPD thrown in)…I STILL can’t fully comprehend this!! I STILL ask other people what they think. I still feel the need for validation at times. Though not much lately…guess it’s finally sinking in enough. And I guess “enough” is all I need…any more than that might mean I understand it too well and think like him…and I do NOT ever want to think like that disordered individual. Lord help me to never be like that.
            So glad you are FREE of that evil one, Carrie.

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            • Over It. JC would get that “calmness” about him also. With me even, I would have done something that ordinarily he would have been really pissed about or he would fly into a rage and then poof! he would be talking in an almost sing songy type voice and saying everything was ok. But later, maybe even weeks later something of mine would disappear or it would get destroyed somehow, By the time I left I had nothing of value left or any keepsakes. He destroyed everything, even took my son’s baby teeth that I had put in a little container. the container showed up in his music room but it was empty. He blamed it on his son but his son wasn’t even living with us at the time.
              Image, for sure. It makes sense because their whole life is a lie that really all that matters to them is how things look. JC knew that cheating on me would hurt me and make me angry but he didn’t understand why I was upset because he had called to tell me he missed me and loved me and said he was going straight to bed and I wasn’t there so why would I be upset. We lived in some real dumps and yet to listen to him describing the place to his folks I wondered what he was talking about and if we lived in the same place. I thought he was a bullshitter but in actual fact he was a pathological liar that lived in a fantasy world of his own creating. Nothing was as it appeared, everything was an illusion; very sick and sad, very hard to grasp someone thinking that way but that is what I tell people all the time, don’t try to figure them out because you can’t, they are sick, they don’t make sense; that is what makes them a narcissist/psychopath. its useless to ask why?

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              • Carrie, so sorry he even took your son’s baby teeth. His is so vile.
                So glad you are free. The one you had was definitely psycho and a cheater, wow. Mine, at least, never cheated to my knowledge. I’m know he flirted with the girls at work as he played victim regarding me. One by one they have left and not on good terms so I guess they all got his number soon enough. The only reason I’m guessing he didn’t cheat physically is because he has OCD when it comes to germs and would be grossed out by any woman who slept around. I used to think it was him being moral, HA! What a joke. I finally realized it is due to his germ phobia.

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                • Over It, for the first 8 years I didn’t think he cheated, I really didn’t think he was capable of cheating, even though he had personal ads I thought it was just him trying to get an ego boost, like he just wanted to know he could get another woman if he really wanted to. It was only the last year that I found out that he had cheated all along and it was only the last year that it became obvious. But he never was reliable, he would say he was coming home and wouldn’t show up all night and say he was working on a vehicle or whatever and sometimes he was so I just believed him. I was devastated when he let it slip about a woman he had been seeing 4 years prior. I don’t even want to know how many women he screwed around with or when. What I do know is enough for me. Sometimes my need to know what was going on drove me insane and then when I did find out the truth it was always way worse than anything I ever imagined.
                  When he came back from Africa I knew he had been with another woman, he told me I was crazy, where would he find a woman in Sudan? when would he have had time, he was there as a missionary not to screw. it took me over a year to find out he had gotten engaged to a woman from Uganda and was promising to bring her to Canada for three years after he came back. It was after we split that I found out he had gotten a young girl pregnant, the daughter of the man who owned the farm he was working on. They are so sick and twisted. When I found out about the young girl I really lost it. That he would take advantage of a young girl who is hoping this Canadian man is going to take her away from the hell she lives in day in and day out and get her pregnant ruining what hope she did have. That baby being born 1/2 white and probably going into an orphanage. Her shunned by everyone. Then leading on the other one for 3 years, but she at least was older (in her 20’s, he was in his 40’s) and she was playing a bunch of men trying to get out of there. I was talking to a guy from Uganda after I found out about the baby and he said that all the young girls will sleep with any white man because they hope that they will get pregnant and the guy will marry them and take them away from there. How pitiful. And here he was there to help them rebuild after the LRA mascaraed them and destroyed their farms etc, me at home thinking maybe he really had changed and what a noble thing he was doing. His mom’s church sending thousands of dollars. and it ended up that he wasn’t even on the farm most of the time, he was off exploring, stole money from the charity he was with, charged them $10,000 for tools he said he shipped there that got stolen and he never shipped them. He could have destroyed the whole charitable organization if word would have gotten out. Who would donate to a charity who has men working in it that go around impregnating teenage native girls. LET ALONE who goes to Africa and has unprotected sex???? Sorry got off on a tangent. That still gets to me obviously. I was devastated. We were split when I found out. It was the fact that I could have loved someone who was capable of that. I had a hard time accepting that, I felt dirty.

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                • Oh Carrie, that is one of the worst stories I have ever heard. He truly is a sociopath. I thought my ex was bad. He was cruel and unethical to me and my son but he would never even do missionary work even as a cover up for cheating and lying to get money. He did pretend to become a Christian (Bible in hand at my doorstep and pretending to be remorseful and repentant) just to get me to marry hm. But, my gosh, what your EX (don’t even want to use the initials JC since it can also stand for Jesus Christ :)) did was sooo low and despicable and unfathomable. The amounts of people he hurt within one “missionary trip” of all things! Ugh. Does his mom know all the destruction he caused?? It reminds me of the Opera “Madame Butterfly” where she waits for the sailor who never returns. So sad for those girls. SO very heartbreaking!! And he is SOULLESS to USE THEM when they are down like that! THAT is the definition of a Narc/Psycho…someone who will use and hurt someone else when they are down. That is where they not only lack empathy but then use it to their advantage to further victimize the one who is already down. SO GROSS!

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                • Anon, I think his mother does know most of it. A good Christian lady, it must eat her up but she thinks she can love him enough to change him. I lost all respect for her when I figured out she must have known all along. The charity left him in Sudan without any money and washed their hands of him, let him rot in the jungles of Sudan. He called his mom and she called and begged they send him home. So the head of the charity agreed and said “I will buy the ticket home and it will be at the airport it is up to him how he gets there.” He had the LRA after him, none of the volunteers were to leave the camp without an armed body guard because of the LRA. then there would have been the natives upset about him getting that young girl pregnant and THEN the charity charged him with theft so the cops were looking for him. If he would have been caught by any one of them he would have been dead meat but he managed to get out. Of course I knew none of this. He came back and I saw picture of these women but he fed me some cock and bull story. His mother arranged for a meeting between him and the head of the charity to make amends I thought. I didn’t know what was going on. All I know is he came back with a cheque for almost 10,000 that he said was for tools he shipped there and they were stolen. I don’t know maybe he was paid to keep his mouth shut. But I do know that i was called by a shipping company to come and pick up some scrap.I had seen JC load the containers for Sudan and there were tools in them. But it was just fluke that the call I got was to pick up scrap steel out of containers that were never shipped because there was a huge oil drum in there and it had oil sludge in the bottom and it they wouldn’t ship it. Other than that it was basically empty and then the guy told me it was supposed to go to Sudan. I said I knew someone who went to Sudan and he told me the name and it was JC. So then I knew that container never did get shipped and JC knew all along it didn’t get shipped and he somehow got all his tools etc out of it. Then I figured out he had gotten engaged to the one and told him it was over. When he told me he had been given 6 months to live and begged me to take him back, he promised he would not communicate with her again.
                  When he and I got back together we went to visit his mom and she couldn’t look me in the eye, she was very nervous and not very friendly. her and I had never met in person but had spent a lot of time talking on the phone and emailing, we had been very close so I was confused why she seemed to not like me. She kept saying that JC had to go back to Sudan and I was REALLY confused about that. He had malaria it would have been deadly for him to go back and I said that to her and she just said he had responsibilities there. I thought what mom would want her child to go to that hell hole? It didn’t make sense. Then I found out she had been emailing with the woman he had gotten engaged to so then I felt really uncomfortable because she never said a word to me about it. I asked her about it and she said that the woman wasn’t interested in JC that way. But I saw the emails she sent him and there is no way it was just friends and I am sure she would have talked to him mom about marrying him etc.
                  He never did stop emailing her even when he had promised and begged me back. After we split a mutual friend let it slip about JC having a kid in Sudan, he didn’t know I didn’t know. I argued that he didn’t have a child with the one he was engaged to and the friend then told me there had been two women JC got involved with and then the pictures made sense, and his mom being uncomfortable around me. She couldnt’ look ,e in the eye because she knew.
                  When I found the emails to this one that he got engaged to he was telling her that he couldn’t wait to be married and see his bride in her dress and that he was working on the paper work to get her to canada. I was obviously upset and he said he was lying to her, that he had said looking forward to seeing his bride, not her. I said how can you lead that poor girl on to think she is going to get out of that hell hole? He said, ” Do you know the conditions they live in? it is hell, I give her hope. She gets an email from me and is happy for a few hours.” I told him, you are giving her false hope, and preventing her from finding a man who will take her out of there.
                  Just sick and twisted. But the pregnancy, that was beyond anything I ever could have imagined. To me that was the lowest of the low scum of the earth.

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                • OMG, Carrie, I want to vomit. JC is EVIL. PURE EVIL. And typical narc/psycho to twist it to him “giving her hope”. D.I.S.G.U.S.T.I.N.G. I truly have never heard such terrible stories. He makes my ex look like a girl scout!! WHY ISN’T THIS MAN IN PRISON??? There is NO GOOD in him. He really needs to be locked up.

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                • I agree anon. I am actually amazed he is still alive not that a few people haven’t tried to kill him! But to meet him you would never guess he is the way he is and that is why he gets away with what he does. When I met him my first thought was “rich kid, slumming it”. Once I got to know him he came across as small town Saskatchewan boy, naive, polite, intelligent but too trusting. That is the way I thought of him for years, just that he got sucked in by the wrong people and taken advantage of. Anytime he was accused of stealing he always made it sound like it was a misunderstanding, whatever he took was in the garbage, or he had made a deal with someone but then they quit or got fired, God he had a million excuses. He used to steal stuff off my truck and take it to work and charge the company for it. Then the company would want a real receipt and of course he wouldn’t have one, then he would be accused of trying to rip the company off. Which he was. I told him, “I know you are just trying to save the company money but it never works in your favor so just order parts from the regular suppliers, its not your money and that way you can’t be “falsely” accused. He would order parts for his personal vehicles on the company charge accounts. anything to get something for nothing.
                  He used to wheel and deal and I had to stop paying attention to the deals because I would say, “that’s not right.” and he’d be pissed at me and by the end of the deal the guy he ripped off was his best buddy (for a while) so I gave up. He said I didn’t know how to do business and to keep my mouth shut; every body did business that way. I had never seen it before but he always got away with it. Like one time when we first moved to Everglades he was talking to a guy who lived in the park who had a motorcycle. There had been a flood and the bike had sat in water for a week and the guy hadn’t known what to do so he just left it to dry out and hadn’t even tried to start it in 2 years. JC said he were would like to have a bike again, gave the guy a sob story about how he used to have a bike etc. The guy said he could have it for $400, JC could pay over time but he couldn’t have the bike until it was paid for.
                  JC went in the buy and sell and there was a guy that had a BMW he wanted to trade for a motorcycle. I heard JC on the phone saying, “Oh yeah I was out for a ride just yesterday, it ran great!” and he told the guy he would bring it out to see it later that day. He still owed $200 on it and I asked how he planned on getting the bike and he didn’t even know if it ran. He said to never mind. He goes over to the guy who owned the bike and says he is so excited about getting the bike, can he push the bike over to our shop so he can have it running by the time its paid off. The guy was hesitant but let him have the bike but not the registration. JC was an awesome mechanic and he had the bike running in less than an hour. He had a flat deck truck and next thing i know he’s got it loaded on the truck and he’s leaving. Everyone in the park saw him driving out with Wayne’s bike on the back of his truck. When Wayne came home he was fit to be tied, where was his bike!!??
                  Well JC had traded for the BMW but of course he didn’t have the registration so the owner of the BMW wouldn’t give him the registration for the BMW until he got the one for the Bike. So now JC was stuck because he didn’t have the $200 to pay for the bike. I was SICK about it. We were new here and had only been together not even a year.
                  I was panicked, asking what he was going to do, both guys were pissed at him and it didn’t phase him in the least. He took the wheels and tires off the BMW and sold them for $200, paid for the bike and got the reggy took it to the owner of the BMW and got that reggie and worked on the BMW for a few days and sold it for $2100. He bought the owner of the bike a nice bottle of wine and went down there all nicey nice and everything was great. He made me feel really foolish for worrying. After that I just stayed out of it. I still think it was wrong.
                  But often times his deals didn’t work out as well and we would have some big Harley riding dude show up to break his legs. I save his neck more than once.
                  He was accused of so much crap I don’t even recall some of it. I do know that every place he worked eventually accused him of stealing, he would arrive at work and the locks would be changed and he would be told he didn’t have a job any more. In fact I just found out last week why he was fired from here. He was hired as the maintenance man for the whole park, he told me that he had discovered the water supply was contaminated by the old septic field and they park management board had been hiding it. He said he had been told to just forget he ever found the information. He refused to lie (hahahahahaha) and told the health department so he got fired. I believed that for 15 years although I suspected the last few years that there was probably something more to it, in light of all the other shit he pulled. I asked someone the other day, “so why did JC get fired anyway?” Stealing. Why am I not surprised?
                  The head of the charity that he volunteered for wrote a newsletter every month with pictures etc. When JC said he was going to volunteer the charity could not believe their good fortune, he was a mechanic, welder, water/sewer tech class 1 driver, grew up on a farm. The head wrote about how God had blessed them with JC. The first month was glowing reviews and then all of a sudden the heading on the newsletter was,
                  “Beware of smiling faces”. But it didn’t go into any detail but any pics of JC had been removed and any mention of him. I figured it was because of the woman he got engaged to but now I know it was because he got that young girl pregnant. I even donated clothes and toys to the orphanage in Sudan. I felt so bad for these little babies.
                  You know I always had a feeling he had gotten a woman pregnant while he was there, I don’t know why I suspected that because I only ever knew about the one young woman and I kept asking him if he had gotten her pregnant and he kept saying no. I asked his mom when I found out she had been talking to her and she said no. I was sure but I thought I must have been wrong. But when that friend told me he had I knew then that I had been right all along. Funny how you can know these things.
                  well who the hell lies about being given 6 months to live? and he tries to say I was dysfunctional LOL His mother wrote me a letter saying I needed to forgive JC because no relationship was ever all one sided. I wrote back, “How can I be held accountable for anything that happened in a relationship that was totally built on lies? I would gladly take my share of the responsibility of JC had been honest but for 10 years I have lived with a lie and fabrication and your son is lying to you.”
                  I never heard back from her.

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                • OMG, Carrie, his Mom drank the Dr. Phil “There are no victims” and “It takes two” Kool-Aid!!! I HATE THOSE SAYINGS because THEY ARE LIES!! It ONLY TAKES ONE TO DESTROY A RELATIONSHIP. We here all know that. With Narcs it is always one-sided and they are 500% to blame…not us! It’s asinine to say both people are at fault when only one is breaking all the rules of a healthy relationship. GRRRR…I hate that simplistic way of thinking. It’s extremely sad how many therapists buy into that crazy thinking and further blame the victims. Actually, if you don’t know of Leslie Vernick’s site, check it out and watch the great video on the homepage where she warns therapists against this way of thinking: http://www.leslievernick.com/ .
                  Yup, everytime you tell another story I just think this man is DUE for prison. My gosh, his mother is delusional. She needs to wake up to the facts about who/what her son is. He’s probably partially the way he is because she keeps bailing him out and believing him and enabling him. So sad.

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                • Anon,

                  I have to disagree with this statement:

                  “It’s asinine to say both people are at fault when only one is breaking all the rules of a healthy relationship.”

                  With an N, it NEVER was a healthy relationship. The beginning was a lie, a fairytale, an act, a sham. There was never anything healthy there. Even OUR reactions, the falling too quick, to fast, too deep, was not NORMAL.

                  I don’t believe we are totally blameless, ONCE WE KNEW what they were we still hung on, most of us, praying for a miracle, change. We saw evil in front of us and didn’t immediately head for the hills. We held on, even when we knew we were putting ourselves and our children sometimes in danger. THAT is not normal.

                  My N’s Mom was just like JC’s except worse. I believe she is an N too. I have no love for her but, she did not make him BE what he turned into. They are born the way they are, sure over indulgent Mom’s don;t help. Perhaps they let the N traits emerge sooner , where stricter Mom’s help keep the N traits in check, at least when they are teens and still at home. We can’t simply BLAME anyone for them being what they are. THEY are solely responsible for their actions. And will answer to GOD for them.

                  No one MADE me get involved with my XNH, I fell for his BS. There was something inside of me that wanted to believe the unbelievable things he was saying, I didn’t pay attention to the red flags. OH, he was good, I admit it……….could sell snow to an eskimo. But still, I had choice.

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                • Ellie and Anon, I have to clarify. I take blame in the fact that I kept going back, I always say I stayed 9 years too long in a 10 year relationship. I admit that, and the longer I was in it the more normal dysfunctional got so that as much as I knew it was crazy that he would have any excuse for the things he did I was accepting it to some degree or else I would have left. I think I was normal going into it. I have heard of couples who have whirlwind romances and live happily ever after, I actually have a girlfriend who is testament to that and I had never known anyone in a really unhealthy relationship. I never understood why women stayed I certainly never stayed with a man who exhibited any controlling behaviour or was jealous, or abusive in any way. When I met JC he was everything I ever wanted in a man, I didn’t see any red flags until about a year into it. NOW I see the red flags and would be more aware if I were to meet someone like him again. But seeing as I had never experienced anything like it I took him at his word and I trusted him explicitly for the first 1/2 of the relationship, although there were other issues but I truly didn’t think he was capable of the things he did.
                  I had been raised by a prison guard and had very black and white standards of right and wrong. I knew people who had gotten say a cheap TV from a friend that worked at the ship yard. I would never do anything like that but I didn’t consider them criminals for doing it. I knew people who did drugs, I didn’t do them but I didn’t condemn them. I didn’t even know you could buy a car without a registration, not until I met JC. I was a fish out of water with him and naive.
                  But when I say I could not be responsible for the relationship breaking up I meant it and believe it to be true. Like I said to JC, I will not take the blame for a relationship based on lies and I won’t.I WILL take responsibility for the relationship going on too long. JC’s mother was writing me because JC was bitching to her about me because I insisted on him taking the car out of my name and he refused so I called the insurance company and made a big stink about it and it came out that he didn’t have a valid drivers license and lost his job trucking because of it. I gave him ample opportunity to take my name off of the car, signed two transfer forms and he flatly refused. He didn’t want his new g/f to know he wasn’t able to insure a vehicle and it was his way of keeping some control over me. If he would have had an accident with my name on that car it could have ruined my life. But his was pissed and blamed me for losing his job. She thought i was being vindictive, no I was protecting my ass for once.
                  I was extremely offended that she would say that I had to see my part in the relationship failing. Like I said, it did not fail because of anything I did, it lasted too long because of what I did.
                  I still say that a person going into a relationship that is based on total lies and fabrication is not responsible for that relationship. Yes once they find out the truth they are responsible but even then the truth comes out gradually, over years. When JC first got abusive his dad was dying of cancer, my brother was in rehab for heroin addiction, my son was having issues with drugs, JC had been fired, I was laid off. there was a lot going on and I thought he was reacting to all that stuff. which would have been understandable.
                  As for his mother being to blame for him being the way he is, partially I blame her; not for him being the way he is but for condoning it and covering for him. I like to think no matter how much I love my son I would not condone him doing what JC did to me. I would not continue to communicate with a woman he was engaged to and not tell the woman he was living with and I certainly would not encourage the woman to be understanding and be praising him for being such a soft hearted guy. His father knew something was wrong with JC, he would ask to speak to me every time he called, before he talked to JC and JC always got off the phone and would be really nice for awhile. His mom is almost 90 and I never saw any point in bursting her bubble. I know JC filled her full of lies but she also talked to me enough to know what I was like and no matter what I didn’t deserve to be strung along for years; when she knew the truth and she knew I was struggling with the way JC treated me.
                  My own mom had turned her back on me and I trusted JC’s mom to be honest.
                  I think narcissists are born the way they are but their upbringing determines if they turn out to be mass murders or whether they function on the edges of legality for their whole life. JC had a very christian upbringing and he used it to his advantage at every opportunity as he used his small town saskatchewan persona.

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                • Carrie, I just now read your response after I had just posted mine. I TOTALLY understand you. I get it. 🙂

                  ________________________________

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                • LD, you had me confused for a minute, I didn’t see a comment from you and then I realized you are using two names. LOL you had me confused. easy to do!
                  Thank you. I tend to go on and on and on, even more lately than usual. But I also agree with what you said about counselors saying all relationships are 50/50. In a normal relationship I would agree, sort of…..usually the scale is tipped a little bit one way or the other. But with an N it is down right dangerous to tell the victim they have any fault in the relationship’s demise; it just gives them more reason to keep trying. that is how the N keeps the victim, by blaming them and making them feel that if they did this or that things would be different. JC used to say all the time another Dr Phil line, Instead of trying to change me why don’t you change yourself. I know what Dr Phil means by that but JC was not using it in that context. He also used to say that I should not be affected by his moods and it was not up to him to make me happy. Which is another true statement, if the other person isn’t sabotaging every effort you make to do things that make you happy ie: prevent you from going visiting, or going back to school or working etc. And an N does not just have a bad mood, he is down right evil. But because we are empaths we are more than willing to see your flaws and try to correct our mistakes which keeps us in the relationship. They say a woman will keep going back until she is sure she has tried everything she could to save the relationship. Until she is certain she did everything within her power she will keep trying. I know when I left the last time I had tried simply everything and there was nothing more I could change, accommodate or compromise on.

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                • Ellie, I agree that once we KNOW then we have a choice. When I say healthy relationship I know with them it is never healthy on their side but during the time where I didn’t know I was dealing with a disordered person I was still following all the rules for a healthy relationship on my end. This is what I am talking about. To say I was at fault for HIS lying, HIS mocking, HIS namecalling, etc. is what is asinine. I NEVER did any of these things back to him. This is what I refer to. Just as JC’s mom was trying to get Carrie to take blame for JC’s clearly sick behavior…as if she somehow caused it. It’s caused from a sickness WITHIN them. I fully believe that understanding this is key to begin our own healing. When my ex kicked me out purely because I called him out on his abuse I then began searching on verbal abuse which led me to narcissism. I told him if he wanted me to come back then he needed help. I finally understood what I was dealing with and I did make the healthy choice to keep myself and my kids away hoping he would get help. Mind you, I didn’t stay long once the real him came out compared to some people. This is probably due to the fact that I had studied so much about how to have a healthy relationship and saw quickly that these rules didn’t work with this person. I knew it was not the way to be treated and I did not want my kids to grow up in that. As far as falling too quickly, my situation was different as it was not quick with me. I also know VERY happily married people who fell quickly with one another and are still together 15 years later as happy as ever. That alone does not indicate you are with a narcissist. Also, believing someone at their word is not a bad thing, especially if you are someone who keeps their word. I would want others to believe me because I do mean what I say and say what I mean. But, yes, once we see these bad signs and have given more than one chance then we have to take responsibility for what we do with that information. Again, I’m talking about the ‘blaming the victim’ type of ‘it takes two’ that gets thrown around, as mentioned in Leslie Vernick’s video. If more counselors worked this way (clearly assigning “blame” to the person doing the bad behavior and not 50/50) then the victims stand a better chance of waking up out of the brainwashing…because, as you say, the Narcs/psychos are good and can sell snow to an eskimo. Sometimes the eskimos are also the counselors and I really believe more victims could get out faster if the therapists didn’t collude with the Narcs and victimize them further. I consider myself a lucky one because I did see fairly quickly…and even then it was hard to fathom that this sort of evil actually existed in people walking among us. I had a very good therapist who called out the behavior but I had also tried three other therapists that were clueless (sadly, most are). Either way, I can only pray that as the world becomes more educated on this type of person then there will be less victims. You can bet your life that I am raising my kids with a great awareness of these personality disorders so that they can identify it and RUN at the first sign of it, knowing that you cannot love away this sort of evil…you can only protect yourself. I used to think being niave was a good thing. I realize now it is not. As far as JC’s mother or any mothers “making” him that way…I realize that she might be part of it…that is why I say “probably partially”. And I am more referring to her attitude of asking Carrie to take responsibility because no relationship was ever ‘one-sided’. Clearly what JC did was all on his side. Nothing anyone else did made this man impregnate girls in Africa, be a pathological liar, steal from people, etc. Whatever the combination of nature or nuture or choice only God knows the truth here. I’m not sure I explained myself well here but Leslie’s video does a much better job than I can! I am just glad now that you, Carrie, myself, and many others see these sorts, Ellie, and we do have a choice to RUN. 🙂 We must trust our instincts and run, run, run!! And don’t look back lest we turn to a pillar of salt! LOL. 🙂 Hope you are having a great Mother’s Day!!

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            • I had the same experience with the “golden child” of the narc. My ex-step-daughter was an image of her father.
              Just as mean as him and his halo was permantly polished by her. He treated her as a son would to a mother (odd).
              She hated me with a vengence and would scheme and plot with her father in my downfall.
              He was never off the phone to her telling her lies about me.
              They both turned up at the door with the police one day to report me for taking drugs – lol. Never taken a drug in my life.
              She could have anything she wanted from him and he basked in her glory.
              His overweight son was ignnored and chatised meantime.
              They are both as evil as each other
              and as sick.
              She has since married and she still as Daddy under her thumb.
              Good Riddence to the lot of em.

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              • Yes, Marrohop, it’s a sick dynamic between a narc and his golden child daughter. It’s NOT real love. She learns early on how to play him to get material things but that is not love. In my case, I’ve seen him rage at her, too, and she is just as afraid of him as off of us. We all will placate to a point but she is the one who suddenly puts on the “Oh, Daddy!” mask and charms him. All I can say is he taught her well. The only good thing is I heard she is worried she is becoming like him. We can only pray that her realization will lead to a devotion to not be like him. I WISH the courts would make everyone going through divorce go through a psych eval and these folks should be denied any and all custody. There is NO good that comes from our kids knowing these evil ones.

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                • Dear Over-It – She is the “Mirror-image” of him. He went to jail for rape on his ex-wife and I supported him throughout.
                  Beliving every lie he told me.
                  A liar and a cheater throughout the marriage.
                  Now he want the house I paid for. He took his daughter away from her mother – not seen her daughter for 15 years due to his lies – the son was in contact with his mother throughout – which I am grateful for now. She sent me an e-mail saying she had lost her daughter because of his family and him. I am scared to death of losing my house that I paid for – He has re-writed history now and moved on to yet another women – I look forward to seeing him in court.
                  He is money-mad, control mad, dressing up as a woman in sex? beyond my believe!
                  Both Father are Daughter are like Twins – the relationship is defo abnormal.
                  I am not a normal human-being any more – just a shadow of what I have become because of the Devil I invited into my life
                  Karma to All

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                • Marrohop,
                  Remember that although you feel like a shell of yourself now, there is hope you can rebuild because you are the sane one. There is NO hope for them! Get a good lawyer and fight like hell for your house. If you can prove you paid for it I would think you would be fine. With his record of rape and lies on file I hope that will work against him. Wow, someone else said the dressing up as a woman bit in another post recently. I think these guys hate women but also envy them. Definitely some momma issues. Mine had them but never did the dress-up bit. I think they all have breast envy. 😉 Stay strong!!! You will find your way back to yourself but an even better self that has the most amazing BS radar so you will never fall victim to this scum again!

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                • Over It you have a very good point. When I was growing up my father was not as bad as JC but he was very hard to live with to say the least. i don’t know if he is borderline maybe? but anyway I always thought my little brother had my dad right where he wanted him. My brother got away with so much more than me, he was the golden child to my mom and my dad. My dad could be raging at my brother and my brother would walk out of the room (no one ever walked away when my dad was talking and lived to tell about it) and say to my dad, “When you can talk to me with respect I will listen.” I just about peed myself, I thought to myself, “Nice knowing you little brother.” but I dad didn’t say or do anything. Years later, my brother confesses to a severe drug addiction and goes into rehab etc (he was in his 30’s) etc, has a hell of a time for quite a few years before he finally got it handled. But we were talking and he says to me that he had it so tough at home. There is nine years between us so I was out of the house for most of his childhood. But he had it SO much easier than me by a long shot!! I told him about that day that he walked out on my dad and i was in awe of his courage and thought he had his shit together so much better than me. And he said no way, he was scared shitless of dad, he just put up this false bravado as a defense mechanism. He hates the thought that he is anything like his dad but I see our dad in him all the time. My mom sees it too, some times it gives me chills when he will say something or the way he will walk with a swagger like our dad used to, to intimidate people. But he would never see it himself.
                  I stopped talking to my dad over 20 years ago because it was so unhealthy for me, the guilt trips and paranoia my dad laid on us kids was just too much but my brother still sees him and is a nervous wreck every time and feels inferior etc. But when I stopped seeing my dad I told my brother, I am doing it for me, I don’t expect you to join me. I need to do this for me, I can’t handle any more “family christmas’s where kids are crying and dad is “joking” and everyone is “too sensitive” and we all go outside (my brother, me and his 2nd wife’s kids) for a smoke and bitch about dad. it is just too dysfunctional. He had said, “well you know Sis you have always been a bit of a flake.” But as it turned out years later he confesses he always thought I had my shit together more than him. Funny how we think we know what is happening and the reality is something totally different. I think many times kids just learn to adapt and some are better at “playing the role” than others.

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    • Over It, I sent the last message she sent and asked them to please get back to me. I thanked them very much for their fast response and said that I didn’t know what happened, all I got was this message and I copied and pasted it right into the email. That is all I can do.
      No i never slagged JC, people would say stuff to me! complain to me about his actions, or say to me that i should leave but I didn’t talk bad about him, not when we were together. I would answer questions honestly! I said to JC once when he accused me of making him look like an asshole. “If me telling the truth makes you look like an asshole then maybe you should stop acting like an asshole.”
      Even his mother told me that JC is a very private person I should not discuss our private matters with other people. I said I didn’t and I know she didn’t believe me but then I thought, he must have been discussing our personal matters with his mother for her to say that!

      They always accuse the victim of what they are doing themselves and they always try to make themselves look taken advantage of, that they do all the work, hold the business together, hold the marriage together, my good God the weight on their shoulders is more than any mortal could bare, they must be super human to carry all the responsibility for all the good in the world and never do anything wrong themselves. Well I said earlier in a comment, they should be up for sainthood. *cough cough*

      Liked by 2 people

  5. Oops, looks like I posted my comment above in the wrong place…sorry about that. I also forgot to say that I LOVE what you said to your ex about being an asshole, LMAO! I SWEAR I used to think the SAME thing when my ex would accuse me of “making” him look bad by recounting a true story of something HE actually DID but I didn’t have the guts to say that to him. Good for you! 😉 Oh, and the “private person” bit…now I see that as code for “abuser!” EVIL LIKES DARKNESS AND “PRIVACY”, of course!

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  6. One more thing, Carrie…I forgot to tell you that my ex also always used to say, “We always end up back together.” GRRR. (Until they decide to discard you for taking off the mask.) They make you think you have some special bond regardless of how sick they are. We were stupid for falling for it but never again. I’ve heard recently that he said what a strong “bond” he has with the new supply (the one he is now raging at). They are incapable of real bonds…bondage maybe…but not loving, healthy bonding. 😉

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  7. Thankyou Overit for your comments. I hope and pray I will get the outcome in a Court of Law. He will obviously spew his lies and deceipt to the Judge, I only hope that the Judge will see what I “creature” he is?
    Ovbiously the last Judge did as he got sent-down for 5 yrs for rapin his ex-wife. This freaks want control in every area of their lives and every-body elses too. He was tight in his control of money, control of me, control in every awful sex act I hated. I have lost friends and family because of the usual smear campaign.
    But I am free from the lies, deceipt, smirks, shifty eye’s and evil soul.
    I have lived too long in this awful darkness.
    I sheltered him when he came out of prison, took care of his mean kids,
    Loved him, whilst he was off womanising and feathering his own nest with cash jobs but none in the bank-account to pay bills.
    With the help of this site and ladies such as you I definately think I would have “lost-it”
    No One understands how utterly cruel, calculating, and vile they really are. He lost his Mother and the age of 6 and was brought up in a narcisstic family of 11, controllled by his dreadful sisters, so defo got mummy issues. His daughter is like his mother – ?
    At the age of 63 I would never go through another experience like this again. He nearly took my soul.
    God Bless every Woman on this Site and Good Karma to U All.
    X

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    • Stay strong, marrohop!! There truly IS hope, love, and healing on the other side. I know you are already feeling that now since you are FREE of him for the most part…trust me, it gets even better! And yes, the “gift” we get is that we no longer are niave to these disgusting creatures. May God see to it that this evil one gets what is coming to him. May there be justice for all. 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • marrohop, stay strong and trust that honesty and goodness will prevail like with Louise. Maybe we are on a roll here. I pray we see justice serviced again!
      that dark cloud has kept the sunlight and goodness out of your life and it is time for the sun to come out in your life and it will.
      Hugs
      just a little stronger a little longer and you will be done with him for good!

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  8. When your scared and alone you turn to people, sometimes the wrong people. I made this mistake, thinking everyone was like me. I talked openly about what id been through. some, not everyone but enough to make me wary have used that information against me. People i thought were friends viewed my situation as a weakness in me, in turn they for their own unknown reasons have tried to hurt me further. I dont understand it but it does work like that sometimes. When youre at your lowest you can invite the wolves to the door.
    My friend whos stuck with me and supported me most does try and encourage me to get with someone, even for a night. She says i have “cock fright” lol, maybe shes right but even though i know i do have several admirers i could approach on this subject i have no interest. In fact i am scared, scared of leaving myself open again. I have no intention of rushing into anything, sometimes im lonely but i do have good friends, family and my gorgeous cat. Im waiting, waiting for the dust to settle before i make any big decisions from now on in, good advice.
    Hope Jill and her dog are brave enough to get out, sometimes if you cant do it for yourself you can do it for another. I hope she can see how happy her dog would be to see her happy, cos they know, animals know far more than we give them credit for. xxx

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    • Magpie, when you are ready it will happen and you are right. It happened to me also. It is like the vultures waiting for the lion to get its fill and then they swoop in and lick the bones clean. Like they know you are in a weakened state and take advantage of that, even if they didn’t know you before, its like they can smell it and zero in. I think it is that dark cloud of negativity that the N leaves behind, it takes a while to clear so the good stuff and good people can get into your life. At first it seemed everyone was taking advantage of me, but I WAS weak and fragile. People are like that, many of them will kick a person just because they are down. It is so unfair and damages a person even more.

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      • its been 2 weeks since the bomb was dropped on me and im coping better than i thought i would! Ive spoken to some of my work colleagues and asked for character references and so far ive had only really good responses, unfortunately its looking more and more like im going to have to take action in return in order to finally kill off the situation im in. This goes against the grain for me as i dont like messing up other peoples lives but if its a question of them or me i have to look after me as no one else will it seems 😦 i hate this!
        ill let you know how it all turns out.
        I think youre right the vultures do circle when your down but im not out yet! 🙂 x

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        • Magpie, I know it is out of character for you to go making trouble for other people. I too prefer to just let things go and hope they blow over but with an N it isn’t possible because they are just so dang nasty and they don’t give up and don’t care who they hurt in the process. I was very stupid in the way I handled JC, I should have nipped it in the bud and charged him for so many things but I didn’t want to rock the boat, didn’t want to have to deal with it and him but I regret it now because he certainly didn’t let sleeping dogs lie. YOu are doing the right thing!!

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          • Thanks for the support, ill let you know how things turn out eh! Fingers crossed i can clear my name on this one and then deal with the problems this person has caused. x

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