Eenie, Meenie Miney Mo-Who’s Is the Narcissist-Do You Know?

bouncy ballRecently a behind the scenes drama unfolded and I thought I would share it as a way of showing how confusing and convoluted a relationship and break up with a narcissist can be. I want to show many aspects of a relationship with an N, the lies, the bad decisions the victim makes, how the N manipulates support from friends and family, and how easily the N twists the truth and sucks in his next victim. I have had some women who warned the new woman and then were shocked that the woman didn’t believe them and run for cover. I suppose they should listen to the ex, but lets face it. Who are you going to believe? The angry ex who just got dumped or the love of your life, who is telling you that you are special, so different from his psycho ex. He has told you all about how crazy she is and has a fatal attraction for him and is telling all kinds of lies about him trying to ruin his life. He might even cry and say that he is afraid the new woman will believe her lies and he can not stand the thought of losing her; he has finally found his soul mate and he is so afraid his ex is going to ruin it for them. The most the ex can hope for is that the new woman will file the information and when the devaluing stage starts she will remember what you said and get out early. But to think she is going to walk away just because you tell her to is living in fantasy land, one in a hundred women would listen to the ex. Most decent people do not listen to gossip; they take the information into consideration but want to form their own opinion, which is wise in most cases, but not so much with a narcissist. I have broken this post into two parts. In this part I am going to give you the story JC told me and what I later found out to be the truth, some of his lies remained hidden for the whole 10 years and came out when his sister stayed with us. Most of them were insignificant; the kind of lies that make you wonder, “If he would lie about that, what else is he lying about?”  But it illustrates how easily the narcissist can weave his web of lies and catch his target leaving the ex wondering, “Why would a woman want to be with a loser like him”. In the second half I will give you the situation that happened recently and see if you pick up on the little red flags. In an effort to avoid a law suit I have changed the names of the people involved. Some of you may remember not long ago a woman named Jill (from this point on she will be known as Betty) asked for help. I sent the FBI to help her, she refused to leave with them and after a comment thanking me for my efforts I have not heard another word from her. Betty’s ex husband, lets call him Archie has an ex girlfriend I will call Veronica. First I received a comment from Archie’s ex girlfriend Veronica, then Archie commented and followed that up with a personal email and pictures and now another comment from someone who is a friend of Archie’s who recounted the pain he was in after Betty left him. I have stopped approving the comments from the ex-husband’s supporters because this is not a forum for people to go into a “he said – she said” debate about who was at fault. But this whole scenario has me thinking about the “he said – she said” situation that happens after a victim leaves their abuser. Invariably the narcissist will cry victim after the true victim leaves, in fact the N often lays the groundwork, villianizing the victim so that when the relationship does end the abuser gets the sympathy, not the true victim. This turning of the tables is often times what makes the victim change their mind and go back to their abuser. The N does such a good job of looking like the poor heart-broken lover that the victim feels guilty and goes back thinking the N really does love them and is missing them.  Friends may even encourage the victim to go back because the N is so convincing with his “broken heart” act.  I even thought at one time that JC truly didn’t want me back but had done such a good job of acting he didn’t know how to get out of getting back together without looking like the liar he was, so he got back together with me and resented me for it. No one wants to be seen as the cause of the breakup or as an abusive person; but for a narcissist; someone who thrives on attention, it is imperative that he be viewed as the victim. To let people see him as the abuser would mean being ostracized and the victim getting the attention. For a narcissist it is not just him not getting attention, in his mind someone else getting attention is equivalent to them stealing his attention. as if there is a quota on attention, if you are getting attention it takes away from him. So who does a person believe when both parties are claiming victim? It is hard, the narcissist can be very convincing. They cry real tears and act truly heart-broken, can’t eat, are consumed with the other person; which they are, especially if the other person left them without warning. It doesn’t mean they weren’t abusive, it means they were not prepared for the person to leave and now they have lost their supply and didn’t have a new supply hooked yet. Without ready supply they shrivel up and die so they seem to be truly having a breakdown, but not like a normal person. They are raging inside, suffering withdrawal, obsessing about the person yes but it isn’t love or a broken heart it’s ego and “how dare she/he leave ME”  They can look and act every bit the victim and looks nothing like the abusive asshole the victim is professing him to be.

So this is the story I heard from JC about his past relationships

The lost love – Tina

When I first met JC he told me about the woman who had broken his heart. They had been living together, he was trucking, he suspected she was screwing around behind his back with her ex boyfriend; he even caught the guy leaving their apartment one day. She got pregnant and next thing he knows he comes home from a long haul trip and his apartment has been cleaned out, the place is empty, and she is gone. He was heart-broken, never found out if the child she was carrying was his or the ex boyfriend’s. He had one picture of the child that her sister had given him and that was it. I felt so sorry for him, how sad.  His mother confirmed what he had told me when she said to me that she was nervous about us moving in together so soon because he had been so heart-broken when Tina left him she was afraid he wouldn’t survive another breakup like that. I swore I would never do that to him. The stage was set, everything fell into place for him just liked he had planned. His story to an uneducated ear sounds believable and I felt sorry for him, it also inspired me to cut him some slack in the relationship because he had been hurt and I wants to show him what real unconditional love was; which totally fit in with his claims that he had thought he was in love before but I had shown him what real love was. That is the story I believed for many years. Until my search for answers led me to a box in the shed . Things had started to go bad as soon as we moved into the house we were buying. I was in shock, I thought he had a brain tumor, or was having a nervous breakdown. I also figured he was still hurting so severely from what this other woman had done to him, he was putting a wall up between us. I opened the box and there were journals of his, I picked up the top one, let it open randomly and read a small part of the truth. I didn’t find out the full truth for many years, but it all came out eventually bit by bit.

The full true story is as follows:

He worked with Tina’s step dad and met her through him. He needed a place to live and  Tina and her boyfriend let JC move in as a boarder. Tina and her boyfriend started having troubles and of course JC was in there like a dirty shirt as a support to Tina, he could not believe how her boyfriend treated her etc. Tina and the boyfriend split and voila JC and Tina are now living together and a relationship starts between them. JC even went so far as to put sugar in his own gas tank and accused the ex boyfriend to solidify in Tina’s mind that the guy was a jealous psycho. But he was the jealous insecure one and couldn’t stand being away from her while trucking and became more and more controlling and abusive. She got pregnant, he knew it was his child because he even wrote in his journal that he remembered the night she got pregnant. He came home from a trip away to a note saying to pick her up from her aunt’s house. As you can imagine he was not happy to come home and she isn’t there and there is a note giving him orders to pick her up, so he was purposely late. By the time he got there she had fallen asleep and was pissed right off when he woke her to go home. On the way home she accused him of screwing around (because his ex’s had called to warn her). In his journal he wrote, “She was screaming at me, accusing me, I told her to shut up but just like all the others she didn’t listen so I hit her.” When they got home he took the phone into the bedroom with him and started to call all their friends, and family; hers included, crying the blues to them trying to drum up sympathy. In his journal he noted that he totally ignored her all night and the next morning. He got up in the morning, kissed her on the forehead and left to do a run. A few hours later he stopped at a phone booth and called her to say I love you. (thinking she would be worried because he never said he loved her before he left) Her reply was, “You woke me up to tell me that?” and she hung up. That was the last time he talked to her, every time he called there was no answer. When he got home she was gone. She had called her mom and step dad, they came over, packed her up and got her out of there. When I finally talked to her after JC and I split I asked her about cleaning out the apartment and storage unit. He had always told me he had a storage locker full of expensive artifacts he had picked up in his travels and they had stolen it all. She told me, “We had nothing!, we lived in a dump with no furniture. I took my BMX bike and my clothes and I never looked back.”  BMX bike kinda says it all, she was barely 17 and he was either 29 or 30. She tried to stay in the town but he made it impossible because he called her work and her friends incessantly, he stalked her, he painted on the fence outside her place pleading with her to come back to him, they found a pile of human shit on the steps that he says was not his. (interestingly enough, one of the times he and I split I had put all his stuff outside and he had come to get it leaving a mess in the back yard. One of my friends who was there looking at the mess, points and says, “OMG, that isn’t dog shit, its human shit. What a nut case!” I couldn’t believe he would do something like that but then years later when he locked himself in the barn his sister and I found a pile of shit in the music room. There was a bathroom right there, I knew Kato would not shit in the house.

Now for Karen:eenie

Karen was his first girlfriend, a much older married woman who lived across the street from him in small town Saskatchewan. He ended up moving to the States with her and being with her 10-12 years in total. He always described her as a drunk psycho that made his life hell. Right from the beginning I believed him because what adult woman would have an affair with a “child”. The way he described it she was independently wealthy, her daddy paid for everything and it was basically an endless party, very enticing for a young impressionable teenage boy. But he wanted to make his own way, wanted to work for a living and started his own trucking company and worked horribly long hours. He was lonely on the road and when he got home he was bombarded with her drunken fits of jealousy and false accusation. He was faithful the whole time but she was insanely jealous. He would want to sleep when he got home or work on his truck and she was so demanding of his time. He told of a time he was dead tired after a run and he just wanted to sleep. Karen hit him in the head with a bottle of whisky while he slept. I had thought OMG! what a nut case, and he didn’t hit her? what a saint!!  She slept all day and wanted to party all night and he longed for down time, to stay home and relax. I could understand what he was saying, who would want a life like that? He said that finally after all the accusations of infidelity he was asked to take the boss’s niece with him on his run and drop her off somewhere. He didn’t want to but he had no choice. She was gorgeous and was attracted to him. They stopped for dinner and went for a drink and well, things got carried away and they had sex. He had felt he might as well because he was being accused of cheating anyway, might as well do it and at least then it was justified. He told me that he had always called home every night and that night he felt so guilty he didn’t so Karen knew something was up and was waiting when he got home. She went immediately into the truck and found evidence of him being with a woman. She refused to forgive him, he went on another run and while he was gone she had revenge sex with his best buddy. He forgave her and wanted to start over fresh but she never let him live down the one time he did screw around; so eventually the relationship died. They hadn’t been sleeping together for months and he was never home. He hadn’t been home in 6 months and been faithful the whole time but she accused him again and he left, parked the semi on the side of the road and went home to Canada. She got his trucking company, everything, he just hopped on a plane and went home.

The true story as told by Karen to me and things that JC said that didn’t add up until later:

She financed the trucking company and he ran it into the ground, if not for her father she would have been destitute. JC always screwed around and had given her an STD. She told me she hoped his prick rotted and fell off that he was dirty and had never been faithful. She kept repeating, “He thinks I am so stupid, but I know what he does, I always figured it out.” Later in the relationship while talking he let slip little tid bits I stored in the back of my mind. Like when he was trucking he had different women in different towns (he had told me he was faithful to her but the time line of when he was trucking meant he only trucked during times he was in a committed relationship) He told me he used to fly women to meet him to ride with him for a week or so and then he would fly them home.  When I questioned him about still living with her and seeing these women. He told me they both knew it was over, he had worked so much he had not been home in almost a year and even before that they hadn’t slept together for 6 months; he had worked so much he hadn’t had time to move out. It seemed plausible to me. But then when he stopped coming to bed he kept telling me he loved me and I was being paranoid thinking there was something wrong. He said she could never forgive him the one indiscretion but it was not one, it was constant. I can now see how it must have gone, she was suspicious, had evidence even and he denied denied denied and she went crazy because she KNEW he was screwing around. Maybe he did confess to one time and expected to be forgiven but didn’t change his behavior. Been there done that and then he says, “Why do you have to live in the past?” “How many times do I have to say I am sorry?” “Every time we start to have a good time you have to ruin it by bringing up the past.” OR he would go to bed and totally ignore that your heart is breaking so one time she lost control and whacked him in the head with a booze bottle. Do I agree with it? would I do it? No. But I understand it.

If you really listen to the N, they are always totally innocent, they were doing nothing wrong or they will admit to something like, “I should have stood up for myself and put an end to it a lot sooner.”

JC comes home from trucking exhausted and just wants a couple of hours sleep and gets hit in the head with a booze bottle. Or is working his ass off because he has a baby on the way, doesn’t even know if it is his and she has stolen everything he owned and he comes home to an empty apartment.

What JC is saying nowadele

When he and I split I was fairly confident he wouldn’t find a new woman right away; what woman would want him? He had just been fired, was broke, renting a mouse infested trailer, and drove an older shit box car besides he was moving to the far eastern border of Alberta. Why would he want to meet someone here when he was leaving? I won’t go into all the lies he told about me, there are enough posts in here about that and I don’t want to bore you by repeating myself. I have also talked about finding him with a married woman after he and I had dinner the night before and he had told me he loved me. He had also told me he would be leaving for Alberta in 10 days to 2 weeks. I was happy he was going, I knew once he was gone it would be so much easier to get over him; out of sight out of mind. It was bad enough I found him at the married woman’s house, who in his blog he described as the last woman he would ever love; that night he moved in with M. I thought, “How stupid can this woman be?? letting a guy she barely knows move in and drive her brand new SUV.” Most victims seem to think that if they met their ex NOW they would be smart enough to not get involved with him. I even said, “The woman has to be desperate or stupid. At least when I met him he had something and was going somewhere. ” But when I thought about it; what did he have? besides a bunch of really good lies. The only difference between the JC I fell in love with and the one M fell in love with was he was 10 yrs old and had less hair when he met M, and probably better at hiding his lies because he had 10 years practice with me. I don’t know why we think we are so unique to be sucked in by the narcissist, if he lied to us, he is most definitely lying to her. When I found myself thinking, “how could she be so stupid” I stopped and reflected on when JC and I met; He had been used and abused by women his whole life and that is why he had nothing except what was in storage (which I never did see and later he said was stolen). He had told me he was buying a house on the coast and it was rented out, the truth is he had rented a house on the coast and got evicted for not paying the rent. He told me that his family didn’t really like me and I had felt something in the air when we went to visit, it was not until 10 years into the relationship that I found out the tension in the air had been because the family was so pissed at him about all the lies he had told and that he had stole from them. The first time he took me to stay there was one of the first times he had stayed there since he had been kicked out by his step dad.  He hadn’t been working but he was in school and “had so much potential” if the right woman loved and encouraged him. I didn’t know he had been fired from every job  he had, he always had some plausible excuse and he certainly had the credentials (I found out 6 years into the relationship that he had printed his own diplomas and hadn’t completed any of the course he said he had.  He told me how his one ex called his places of employ and got him fired more than once. He showed me pictures of houses he had owned and the ex got, vehicles and semi’s he had owned (never trust a photo a person can take a picture of any car and say it was his or like in JC’s case he is forever buying vehicles and then having to sell them because he is broke and it is always the woman’s fault.) he told me he hadn’t dated any woman in 6 months, I had no idea he was seeing a woman when he met me and was running outside in the morning to make sure she hadn’t left a love note on his car. He told me he always insured all his vehicles. I thought that is a strange thing to say, who doesn’t insure their vehicles? Little did I know he was stealing the date sticker off of cars and putting them on his license plate. He told me the race car his sister and brother in law owned had been his and he sold it to them, he was happy they got so much enjoyment out of it. I found out 10 years later from his sister that he didn’t sell them the car. Why would he lie? It’s just the way he rolls. He told me to take anything I wanted from the farm then accused me of stealing and later said I stole over $10,000 worth of tools and equipment. When they say their ex stole everything they had they can say they had anything how would you ever know? This is an excerpt from a post JC did about my blog, he altered it from time to time and removed it only to put it back up with some new rant about how awful I was; right up to a few months ago:

I quit looking at Carries “ladywithatruck” blog long ago. Her whole premise of “surviving a relationship with a narcissist” and starting over “with nothing” is just so contrived and obtuse that I could not stand to even read it. ( If you notice he used all the key words in the title and heading of my blog hoping to draw my readership to his blog so he could slander me. I have never set out to slander him, I set out to share my experience and help others) It is like everything she ever wrote to me, and worse. Because now she ISN’T writing to me….so there is no boundary of truth involved. Now she can embellish as much as she wants. Now she can totally invent new events, change time periods, omit anything and everything positive and good that I or anyone has ever done for her, and assign malicious intent to anyone she chooses with NO way for anyone to question her, correct her, or challenge her. Any question at all of her recollections is automatically deleted and derided. I remember seeing some innocent enough questions to why she was contradicting herself (her blog is a constant source of contradictions and complete opposite accounts) which were met with instant deletions, and her then commenting on the stupidity of those people, and her subsequent blocking of them on her blog, and in the end she took full control over comments….no comment is posted until she has homogenized it. ( If there were comments that were immediately deleted how does he know about them and how does he know people are blocked  if he wasn’t the one to make the comments? I have only ever blocked one person and that is him )
Complete and utter control over the misinformation, and the ability to silence any questions or corrections before they are reviewed by her followers. What a fucking joke. And people are just lapping it up. (he is pissed off because I thwarted his attempt to slander me on my own blog. If I was making all this up there wouldn’t be hundreds of people going OMG that is exactly what happened to me. a person can’t make this stuff up.)

For over a year he put up and took down his blog about me. I got the feeling that every time he was angry with M he would think up some other lie to be angry with me over. He couldn’t take it out on M so he lashed out at me. I suspect that after he was fired for the 6th time in a year he was blaming me because he kept saying that he was done with me and he was afraid of what I was going to do to them in revenge when I hadn’t talked to him in a year and didn’t know where he lived or his phone number. He was the one showing up where I worked and stopping by my house. I told him I couldn’t be his friend and to stop coming around. He must have told me 10 times that he was “done” with me but he kept trying to ruin my life by calling my employer, my land lord, my friends and slandering me, tracking me via my G’PS, lurking in my blog. After I posted I knew he was lurking around my blog and I knew where he lived he made this addendum to his blog.

Anyhow….I am so far past all of this that it makes me sick to even go back and roll around in the mud…which is what discussing anything to do with her feels like. I am done. Nowhere, anywhere, will it be found where I discuss, mention, or even hint to, CR. I was done back in 2010, and the best thing I ever did was to extricate myself from that dysfunctional, and poisonous relationship. It took a long time to be totally rid of her, and she keeps rearing her ugly head from time to time…..but to no avail. She has no emotional relationship with me. She does not exist to me anymore. For the first time in my life I am looking forward to a future, with my sweetie, instead of just surviving every day, not knowing what crisis was coming, while throwing my time, finances, and affections, into a black hole. (which sums up my 10 years with CR) So live long and prosper. There will not be an addendum to this post. This is the end.

Fini. 

what he says about his life now.

I could not be happier than I am…here with M. she is not perfect…but she is perfect for me. I knew she was my girl right from the start….and have never doubted it for a second. (According to his blog he was seeing her for 6 weeks, all the while screwing half a dozen other women and said he had found the last woman he would ever love, Peg, It wasn’t until I found him at Peg’s house and found out she was married that his car broke down at M’s house and he never left and he had dinner with me the night before and told me he loved me) I sure am grateful to the ones who are responsible for connecting us….everything good in my life comes from loving her and being loved by her. Thats all I got to say on here.

and another one yes…..it IS a new life. A lot of things are new…like how I feel…what I think….how I am treated. I am even standing up for myself! ( Her special love has saved him and she is proving what unconditional love is all about and cutting him slack in the relationship because after all he was so abused by me he tries to sabotage their relationship. She knows that once he realizes she isn’t going to take advantage of him he will appreciate her faithfulness and dedication and they will live happily ever after) I am learning how to take a more relaxed approach to things, ( translation, I am not working that hard because I don’t have to, M has money and M thinks he is burned out from working 24/7 to support me and she sure doesn’t want to bitch about him not working and be “just like all the others”) because nothing moves too quickly around here. That’s ok. and then after the post where he said he was done, fini he commented on his own blog.( He is the only person to comment on his blog) Dreams really CAN come true. But I never imagined that I would find the one I have. My wildest dreams never came close. There was a long period where I believed what I was told. (that no one would love me more…or for who I am.) The narcissist blog is right about a lot of things. A person can be manipulated by words and affections. I was. The blog is just not honest where it pertains to who was abused….and who was the abuser. I know just how fortunate I am. To be free…to be away from that mess…and to be totally over….and above it. Thanks M! That was after he wrote a whole post criticizing her for being too anal during the move and pointing out that he goes with the flow and there is no need to get all bitchy like her. Saying she was so angry the neighbors pulled their children in the house and tumble weeds rolled down the streets. He says she accepts him the way he is on one blog (no doubt the one M knows about), like no one else has ever done, yet writes on a different blog this post.

Life can be difficult at times.

 It is hard to change the way I do things….things I have been doing basically all my life. Oddly enough….there were a couple bad habits I thought would be undoable, that were not too bad once I decided to put them behind me. Stuff like horsetrading, having a kazillion projects on the go at once, staying up half the night..these things have been a bitch to get a handle on. Because I don’t realize its even going on until it’s 4 am, or I have missed supper. I just can’t get used to shutting down at 5, and sitting on the couch watching tv for the rest of the night, and going to bed early. I keep trying, and it is like static electricity….you can feel it building….your hair is standing up, and you gotta get up and move around…touch something, get back to level. It is great here…I love it….but it IS awful quiet. I have got myself lined up with a lot of really great people….once it warms up I am hoping we all get together more often.   What women forget is, the narcissist’s whole life is a fabrication. He tells lies like we tell the truth, it comes naturally to him, it is his “default”, the way he rolls. Just like our “default” is to believe and trust that a person is being honest with us; after all why would they lie? He didn’t just lie to you, he has lied to the new woman also and she is believing his lies, just like you did, just like the one’s before you and the ones who will undoubtedly follow the new woman. He is not going to wait until you tell her the truth, he is going to be slandering you and making you out to be the crazy, jealous ex long before you get to her so that when and if you do fill her in on who he really is she is prepared for you and knows you are a psycho trying to ruin his life. If JC was capable of putting sugar in his own gas tank, crashing his own vehicle for the insurance or sabotaging my truck I fully believe he is capable of sabotaging M’s vehicle to make it look like I was stalking him and making her think the only way they have a chance is for her to sell her house and move away. I don’t know what he is telling her or whether they have had troubles but I do know she looks like crap, sold her house and he owes her tens of thousands of dollars and now she is totally dependent on him. I didn’t know how he would wangle it but I predicted he would get her to sell her house and move away and he did it. I know when he told me about how his ex’s treated him, how hard he tried and all he lost it made me more determined to prove my love for him. I wanted him to have things that made him happy, I did everything I could to facilitate his happiness because he had so much potential and all he needed was a woman who loved and appreciate him for who he was. Even when I started to discover his lies I cut him slack thinking he lied because of low self esteem and I encouraged him to tell the truth because he was awesome just the way he was; he didn’t have to lie to impress me. When he started having his rages I thought it was because he was falling so in love with me that it scared him and he tried to push me away; if I proved to him I wasn’t going anywhere eventually he would realize I wasn’t like the others. It is a hard pill to swallow when you admit that you were just as stupid as the next woman; you aren’t special to the N, there was nothing special about you and him. He didn’t lie better to you, he was the same loser then as he is today. If you are angry with the new woman, you have misplaced your anger. She is blinded by his charms, love bombing and idolization; she is the one who is going to save him, love him like no other. He has so much potential.

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3 Replies to “Eenie, Meenie Miney Mo-Who’s Is the Narcissist-Do You Know?”

  1. Wow! I had to go get a cup of tea and settle in for this post! But it was worth it. I too wondered how the first wife of my ex (+N) could be so rotten to him. Luckily his daughter and I had a good relationship and remain friends to this day. One day she was relating a story and I said “Wait, didn’t it happen this way?” and proceeded to tell my ex’s side of the story. And she went on to say no this is what really happened…yeah the N’s are great storytellers that’s for sure.

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    1. KL, it is always reassuring when one of their own family sees them for who they are, then you know you are not imagining things. I could not believe some of the things I had believed for the whole relationship that his sister filled me in on after 10 years. Things that wouldn’t ordinarily come up in conversation and just by chance were casually mentioned and she would say, “NO…it didn’t happen that way at all” If their lips are moving they are lying; about everything! It is amazing the shit they lie about.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Carrie,
    Sounds like you wrote this post for me, I do thank you? You are right, today, was the first day I said I don’t give a shit, she can have him, pay for him, and have the love of her life,as long as she keeps paying for it.
    I am done with insanity and now in reality. She can have the diseased lying sack of shit, I have lost nothing.
    If Someone comes into my life great, if they don’t I am going to live life anyway.
    Thanks,
    Susan

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