Deception and Dating After the Narcissist

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I recently received an email from a regular visitor to this blog, Stephen Bach, who has a blog called The Narcissist’s Son commenting about a recent post of mine; Judgement Day.
He was question whether my post might cause confusion for some people reading it because I was warning women to be wary of a man who asked too many questions early in the relationship; in other words if the guy is arrogant and self-centered RUN and if he is too attentive and wants to know all about you RUN! It doesn’t leave a woman many choices. This is the conversation we had on the topic which will hopefully clarify any confusion my post caused. ( If it seems a little disjointed in spots it’s because I removed some personal sections of the emails from Stephen to protect his privacy)
The email from Stephen:
I was reading your Judgement Day post and had a comment that I was thinking of putting in the comments section but thought better of it.  I don’t want to incite others.  I do think the Judgement Day post is excellent and you expound on many excellent points.
My comment is this:
You mentioned that you found an N’s initial approach of getting the woman talking as a sign of an N.  While I do agree with this in concept, I also disagree with it at the same time.  Yes, an N will pump someone for personal information during the love bombing phase in order to collect information to later be used against you, but I don’t feel that just because a man asks a bunch of questions that it makes him an N.  During the initial phases of a relationship, I will ask many questions to try to establish our compatibility.  I will talk about myself when asked a direct question, but I am also very interested in learning to understand my potential partner’s desires, hobbies, and passions.  I think it’s very important that there is some common ground with interests, etc, or the relationship will have a very difficult time when there is only 1 activity that we like to do together (1 activity as an example situation).  
So the question becomes, how does a woman establish if she is being love bombed or if she has met someone that is taking a genuine interest in her?
I agree, listening to someone talk about themselves ad nauseum on the first date is a huge turnoff.  I’ve had it happen a few times.  If I’m constantly being interrupted and I feel like she’s orating her resume to me, it’s gonna be our last date.
Thanks Carrie!
Stephen
Stephen, even as I was writing the post I had the same thoughts as you. It just so happens that when I met JC I was actually waiting for a date to arrive that I met off POF. JC had said to call him if the date didn’t work out. Well the guy was what most people would consider a narcissist, full of himself, loud, everything had a price tag that he made sure everyone in the bar heard, ie: how much his car cost, how much his suit cost etc. He was a pompous ass lawyer and I couldn’t wait to get out of there. 

I went home and called the handsome stranger I had just met in the bar a few hours before. JC was the opposite, he was interested in me and what I liked but was (appeared) totally open and honest about himself. I could not believe my good fortune, especially after the hellish hour and 1/2 I had just spent with the lawyer.
It is very hard to know and that is what makes them so hard to detect. They have perfected effective communication, (in most cases) they are the ultimate sales man not your stereotypical car salesman, loud and brash.
 
I think the key is to take things slow and see if what they tell you about themselves is the truth, which can also be difficult. Like with James, he was new to town, didn’t have any long-term friends and the friends he had, seemed to think he was a great guy (none of those people are his friends now) He was in school to change his career due to a motorcycle accident so no way of knowing how his work ethic was. Many times a narc is new to town because it makes it easier to reinvent himself. I didn’t learn the truth about some of the things James told me in those first few months until 10 years later and many of them didn’t get revealed as lies until I was fully committed in the relationship. Mind you we did move in together rather quickly (about 4 months) and I think that is key; not get in over your head before at least a year has passed. Had I waited a year I doubt I ever would have moved in at all, that is why they push for commitment so hard, they know they are on borrowed time, their lies are going to start becoming obvious and they want the victim firmly hooked before that happens.
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There are so many factors but I think the big one is………………taking it slow!!! and listening to your gut.
Thanks for bringing it up, you are right and it makes it even harder for a nice guy to be believed and find a nice person.
 
Do you think I should change the post? I don’t want to mislead anyone.
Carrie
Great to hear back from you!

Wow, that’s really interesting how you met JC!  A question – did you tell JC during that first conversation about how much of a pompous jerk the guy that you were meeting in the bar was?  If so, you unwittingly told JC exactly what NOT to do in order to ‘win’ you.  Plus if JC was validating your experience with Mr. Pompous during that first conversation, you immediately would feel a bond with him.  
I completely agree that it’s hard to know what a potential partner is truly like during the initial dating phase. It’s very easy for someone to morph into someone else for a rather significant period of time.  Eventually their true colors will show, but it’s possible for a true master love bomber to keep up a good act for a very long time.  I totally agree, time is the best predictor of long-term potential.  I also agree, we have to trust our gut instincts.  If our gut tells us it’s too good to be true, it probably is.  If our gut tells us things are moving too fast, they probably are.  I’m always amazed at people that are shacking up within a month of meeting each other.  That is a total recipe for disaster.  
(I am learning to) build trust in myself that I am capable of spotting the red flags and capable of keeping myself from getting entangled in another dysfunctional situation. I think one of the major keys is to be able to trust ourselves and our instincts.  If we see red flags, what does our gut tell us?  Does our gut tell us that the red flag that’s flying is a serious issue or is it just him / her having a bad day and they truly don’t mean to behave that way?  Another behavior I had to learn was to confront bad behavior when I was exposed to it.  I often would never do this, and let my abusers get away with bad behavior because I did not hold them accountable.  When we confront the behavior, how does he / she respond?  Does he / she say “tough, it’s who I am, take it or leave it”?  Do they attempt to minimize the issue and rewrite our perceptions?  Do they gaslight and pretend it never happened?  Or do they own the behavior, offer a reasonable explanation, and / or apologize?   I feel that their response to being confronted regarding their behavior is one of the most indicative signs of someone who could be an abuser.  
I don’t think your post is necessarily misleading, although it could be confusing.  I would hate to think a woman would read that post and interpret it as “if he’s being nice, he’s really a jerk”.  That could have the effect of essentially closing the door on just about any man:  If he’s being a pompous jerk he’s not nice, and if he’s showing interest in you he’s not nice either, so what’s left?  I do agree that often (even for ‘normal’ people) the initial conversation and approach can be misleading with regard to a person’s true intentions.  I feel the key is to be on the lookout for abusive behavior and boundary issues, just like we might be on the lookout for other features of a potential mate.  I know for me, that as shallow as it sounds, I have to feel some sort of physical attraction or it just won’t work.  I have tried to date women that I don’t feel attracted to and it’s very difficult if not impossible after a while.  It’s part of who I am, and I know it’s shallow, but it doesn’t appear to be something I can change, so I’ve grown to accept it.  
Have a wonderful day!
Stephen
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Stephen, I had to laugh when you asked if I mentioned that the lawyer was a pompous ass because once I studied Narcissists I realized what I had done, I have always been an open book. I have always thought it was best to be open and honest, especially when first meeting a guy, why pretend to be something I am not, the guy might as well know what he’s getting into. I never play games, or try to change a guy and it had always worked for me, I always had an “if he likes me fine if not that’s fine too” attitude………….this is how our first few conversations went. The night we met I told him I was meeting this guy I’d met on a dating site. He asked what I thought of on-line dating, (he had never tried it himself) I said that I hadn’t had any luck and found a lot of the guys just wanted to talk over the net and I was an old-fashioned girl who liked face to face or at the very least a phone call. 

Later he gave me his number. (putting the control in my hands, or so I thought)

(I had already given him a HUGE hint by saying I wasn’t into the internet and valued face to face)
When I called him later that night the first thing he said was, “How was your date?”
My exact words were, “He was a pompous ass lawyer.”
(how is that for putting a bulls-eye on myself?) He laughed. I thought he thought I was cute and witty, now I realize he was laughing with glee at how easy this was going to be.
 I refuse to never date again because I am afraid, there are N’s every where and we will never be able to eradicate them from the world, we had better be prepared to deal with them and be able to protect ourselves. They don’t attack the weak, they attack anyone and they are masters at impersonating a caring human being, perfect for the target but we don’t have to believe everything everyone tells us, we can date someone for a few months while we get to know them and pick up on the little things that give them away. The little giveaways’ are there as long as we listen to our gut and not bury them because we don’t want to face the truth. As much as the narcissist is cunning and a master manipulator we do have to take responsibility for part of our own deception, we lied to ourselves and that is the most dangerous part. We saw the truth and chose not to believe our own instincts, that is what really got us in trouble and hurt.
As for the attraction thing, I agree…… there was a huge physical attraction with James right from the start and that is the way I have always been. If I am not physically attracted to a man I just do not date him, he could be a great guy but if that physical attraction isn’t there I can’t get past it, i have tried and after a while it just isn’t fair to the other person. That is part of the reason I don’t think I will date again, at my age a lot of men don’t take care of themselves and they have a big beer gut etc and I know I am older and not as attractive as i used to be but I still take care of myself and haven’t let myself go. I am just not attracted to a guy if he is over weight and out of shape. it might be different if we grew old together, I don’t know what I would have felt like if James had let himself go, I can’t imagine not loving him no matter how he aged. 
Well this got really long.
If you don’t mind I would like to use some of our conversation in a post, I will eliminate the personal stories, give you credit and link your site but you made some good points and I can link it to the other post and then people get all sides of the issue.Hi Carrie –

Sure, you are welcome to use whatever you would like in a post from our conversation.  I’d be honored 🙂
Isn’t it wild how when we look back at those initial interactions we find that we literally spoon fed vital information to our abuser?  With my 2nd exW, she had shown me SO many red flags that even in my lifelong state of denial of red flags I saw them.  Yet I married her anyway.  She was truthfully very smart and knew exactly how to manipulate me.  She was a master gaslighter, and we would have conversations about “issues” and then she would go off and behave like our conversation never happened and I would be left dumbfounded.  I mistakenly felt that if I loved her enough that she would see just how wonderful I was and stop abusing me. (yeah, right!  I took the same approach with my narcissist mother and look how that one turned out!).  She had absolutely zero respect for me, and would openly flirt with other men right in front of me.  It was disgusting.  She had every trait of BPD.  The whole relationship was a total nightmare.  I knew she was a train wreck from the day I met her.  When I met her, she was sleeping with a married man and I knew it.  I should have never pursued her.
That’s horrible about JC and his porn / sex addiction.  I agree, the lying about it is the worst part. I’m surprised that he never contracted an STD and brought it home to you if he was philandering that much.  I don’t doubt for every incident that you knew about there were probably 5 that you didn’t know about.  In my opinion, cheating is the ultimate disrespect in a relationship. I think you were more than fair when you told JC that some people are OK with having an open relationship, but I’m not.  I wonder if he was more lying to you or to himself when he said he wanted a committed relationship with you?  One of the aspects of N behavior I find ironic is that they are often looking for ‘ideal’ love, and then turn around and destroy any chance they might have of getting into a situation that might resemble ‘ideal’ love. My BPD exW used to call me her ‘split apart’, like we were made for each other and then go back to flirting with any guy (or gal) that would pay attention to her.  She had the audacity to once tell me that I should be proud that so many men hit on her and it shouldn’t bother me.  Yet, if a woman ever came onto me at a gig, she would be furiously jealous.  Someone hitting on her is one thing, her flirting back is an entirely different animal. 

  I can understand how someone that had recently come out of a bad situation would have a hard time ever letting themselves be vulnerable again, but eventually we have to make peace with it all. I refuse to be defined by my past.  If I refuse to date I let my past define me and my abusers win.  They have beaten me down to a point where I am not even willing to risk a relationship again.  I will not let that happen.  That being said, I’m currently planning on taking at least 3 months or so off of dating.  I’ve been dating a lot and haven’t really found anyone that has real LTR potential, and I need a break (that would be me listening to my gut :))

ImageStephen, I don’t think James ever intended to be in a committed relationship, I think he “wanted” me, he wanted to own me, I was what he needed at the time to convince his family that he was a nice guy, (he had totally annihilated the relationship with his family, been disowned by his step dad and needed credibility, respectability and to appear changed) and I was just the woman to do that for him. The first half of the relationship I truly believed he was misunderstood and his greatest crime was to be naive and get involved with the wrong type of people. He may have been possessive of me but I know now (even though at the time I thought we had a special love and bond that few people ever find) that I was only there as a tool and he had full intentions of screwing around. He knew he could not be faithful, he knew he needed the attention of other women in order to survive. When he came back to me the last time saying he had been given 6 months to live and I was all the woman he would ever need, he was living with another woman in another province; yet he promised total honesty and fidelity. He was trucking and needed a woman in BC because he was doing a monthly run to Vancouver, I was nothing more than a convenient source of narcissistic supply; the “sure thing” in BC. He actually referred to me as a “sure thing” and I thought he was just struggling to find the right words and not being honest. I think sometimes they actually are honest and we interpret it the way we want to and they just allow us to take it anyway works for us. One thing I know for sure, James never loved me. 
When he met his new woman he had different needs, he needed a roof over his head, stability, and he was looking to retire. He set out to find a woman with money. Again he was “honest” with me when he explained why he chose her over the woman I had caught him with. He had been dating 10 different women and had narrowed it down to one who I gather was good-looking and into him AND had a home but the house was tied up because her husband’s name was on title and he was fighting her for the house. James’s exact words were, “Her husband is fighting her over the house and it just wasn’t going to work for her and I so I went with M.” 
He was also honest with me when after we split he said he was “as faithful as he could be”. 
No matter how I look at the relationship, No matter what he did or how many lies he told, it all boils down to one fact that would have saved me 9 years of heart ache………………….
I did not listen to my gut and react to the deception as I felt I should have, I can not count how many times in the last 9 1/2 years my gut was screaming for me to run from the relationship and I didn’t listen. I thought leaving him was more than I could bare. Yet here I am after all those years of abuse, without him and still standing. We can all survive a broken heart even if we don’t think we can and it is always easier to leave sooner than later. Never before in any of my relationships did I have such indecision about leaving so I am going back to the way I used to date, when things don’t feel right I am not going to doubt myself.



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34 Replies to “Deception and Dating After the Narcissist”

  1. Great article, Carrie!

    I think one thing that needs mentioning ,, unfortunately, and you did touch on it is the issue of AGE. I know Stephen does not agree with this 🙂 but I believe it to be true. Older men, beer bellies and all, just have easy pickings these days because as women get older they seem to get more desperate, for lack of a better word. Women will put up with things that raise red flags more easily when she gets to the second half of her life. Almost like she has to compromise because of her age, fading looks etc. Women tend , more then men I think , want to BE attached to someone. Also, the “quick move” thing, I think women go along with it because they are afraid if they don’t the man will find someone else who will. So she compromises and folds. She wants to hold on to her catch before someone else steals it instead of taking the stance if he doesn’t wait for me he isn’t worth the effort to begin with. For every woman out there that has begun healing , knowing herself and her own needs, there are 5 women they do not care, they just want a man at all costs, regardless of what he is! And don’t think they ( men ) do not know this! As I have said many times, being alone does not mean having to be lonely. As far as I am concerned THOSE women can have THEM!!!! Good luck to them lol

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Ellie, I didn’t touch on it because we were discussing how a woman or man can know they are not being taken in by a narcissist,. We were discussing how a person can be assured of having a “healthy” relationship. I agree there are women out there who will move a guy in within weeks of meeting him, pay his way, lend him money, give him her car to drive (James found one) but those women don’t want to know how to have a healthy relationship, they just want a relationship period and they won’t be listening to their gut or even concerned with whether the guy is sincere as long as he is interested in her and feeds her the right lies so she can lie to herself.
      That is her choice and it is not going to sway how I react with a man or make me feel I have to rush a relationship just so I get the man. A healthy man is not going to be with a woman because she has a house and he won’t expect the woman to lend him money or pay his way so I really am not concerned about them.
      There is no way I am going to be getting hooked up with a guy looking for a roof over his head because I am going to be taking my time and I don’t want a man who is going to rush me.

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  2. I need help. Trying to break away from my N, but I “love” him. He is living in Ark for a short period with work and I suspect he has already met his next victim. He will move back and I tell myself ” I will wait for him”. Why do I wait? HELP

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    1. hey Alma!

      You wait because you are obsessed with the “idea” of him as you first knew him, when he was reeling you in. The pretend him. Think about it. IF you KNOW he is playing around WHY would YOU want him? We need to sometimes look at ourselves and figure out WHY we accept unacceptable behavior. Why we do not think we deserve loyalty? Hard questions , I know. But they need to be answered. Are you ok with having him mess around? Because if he is doing it now he will continue to do it. Can you live with that? And if you can WHY?

      There is no way to change an N but you can change 🙂

      You deserve so much better.

      Ellie

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      1. I don’t know the answers to my own questions , but I left my family which is 10 hours away now, to have a “better life”, and after 5 yrs, I don’t know that it is any better. I don’t want to run back”home” tail tucked under. I’m an independent mother. But I don’t know what I have left to stay for. Secretly I stay for my N to say he’s changed for me and we’ll be married and live happily ever after. Then I think how pathetic I must be.

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        1. Waiting for an N to change is a sure way to a very slow emotional death. They can’t, ever. And as far as “happily ever after”? More like Happy NEVER after. If you have not married him, you are lucky! Please don’t, it would only be much worse, not better. When you say for better or worse with an N you will only ever get the WORSE part. Have you read much on this blog? Read as much as you can. Absorb it. The women here all have very similar stories, none with a happy ending that includes the N. Let me know what you think after reading a bit…………

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          1. Yes I have been reading. I also bought books like “Why is it always about you” by Sandy Hotchkiss. And 2 others that are helping me slowly. The pain is heartwrentching and goes deep. Mornings are the worst when I get out of bed and no phone call or text msg from my N. He is 3 days into disappearing. Ugh! Lord give me strength.

            Liked by 1 person

            1. Morning then might be a good time to sit with a cup of coffee ( or tea ) and read…… He’s giving you the Silent treatment, a common way to control you. He makes you frantic, desperate to hear from him so when he finally does contact you , you will be so relieved you will believe anything he says and not challenge anything so that he will not go silent on you again. But of course it DOES happen again. And will continue too……………Hope you have a good morning tomorrow.

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        2. Alma Martin, I am sorry, I know it is very painful and it feels like you can’t leave your partner but you will survive. I replied tot one of your other comments so I won’t go on and on here but really; for your own sanity and health you have to let go of the fantasy that he is ever going to change back into the man you met. You are NOT pathetic, you have been abused at a soul level and a person does not bounce back from that. You have only been away from the N for 3 days, he is torturing you to make you compliant and agreeable. He will show up again, I guarantee it so if you want to continue doing the dance with him, relax; he should be calling in a day or two. He will be spewing lies again but he will be back; for a while until the next time he want to teach you a lesson or he meets another woman he wants to bed, and finally one day he will dump you and go with the other woman and take great pleasure in telling you how she is the love of his life and you made his life hell. I know this because I stayed until the very end, I kept taking him back, kept thinking that one day he would realize how much I loved him and appreciate all I had given up for him and put up with from him. All it did was make him disrespect me even more. The more you accept from him the more he is going to dish it out. She took that……..I would how far I can push her. What will it take? I used to say that if I ever found out he screwed around on me that would be it!! but when it happened I still took him back. By the time I left I didn’t have a shred of dignity left. Do not do that to yourself. It is done Alma, it is over you just are not taking it off life support. Let it die and get on with the grieving and healing.
          Do you really think the relationship can be rescued now? do you think he will respect you enough to want to change when he knows he can do anything he wants and you will always take him back? He is toying with you.
          You have two options and only two, here they are:
          1. You stick around and wait for him to pop back into your life. You can try to be angry about it or discuss it but it won’t do you any good so you will try to be really sweet and nicer than the other woman so he picks you over her. You will continue to be miserable and he will continue to hurt you. If you think he has hurt you so far just wait, when he discards you for real he will attain amazing heights of ways to cause you pain. You ain’t seen nothing yet. If you choose to stay with him you will lose even more friends (if you have any left now and your family will fade further into the distance) You will have no one and he will do whatever he wants when ever he wants with no regard for you whatsoever. Your soul will be crushed and you will become a zombie, afraid to show emotion and anger him, afraid to be loving for fear of rejection and afraid to be happy for fear he will do something to destroy it. Get used to the pain, and you will, eventually it won’t hurt as much because you will be so used to it and you will shut off your feelings to cope. It will be so much harder to recover when he does leave you because if they choose to leave you they always do everything they can to destroy you before they go, they want to leave their victims destitute, broke and broken. Everything you have experienced so far and way worse. That will be your life. OR
          2. You can choose to be happy, you can choose to respect yourself enough to say, “NO MORE” yes it is going to hurt, but you are hurting now! might as well get the hurting over with and take the time to heal and learn to respect yourself and set healthy boundaries so you can go on to meet a healthy man who will love and respect you because you will be loving and respecting yourself.
          The hurt does stop when the narcissist is out of your life, I know. There is life, light and love after the N.
          Hugs
          Carrie

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        3. Alma, going home to the people who love you is not running back with your tail between your legs or mean you aren’t independent, it means you are human and you made a mistake and are smart enough to save yourself. I had false pride with JC, when I went back the last time I knew my family would disown me and JC and I talked about it, he knew if I went back to him I would lose my family, it was exactly what he wanted, total control over me and that is when the abuse got the worst. But did I leave? no way, I was going to stick it out, make it work, prove I hadn’t made a mistake and you know what? It was almost the death of me, I was lucky to escape with my life and then tried to take my own life because I felt I had screwed up so badly there was no way I would be able to ever be happy or have a decent life. He had stripped me of all my confidence and worst of all he stripped me of hope.
          YOU, and only you have the power to change your life for the better, you can choose to remain a victim, or you can choose to be a survivor. You made a mistake, so you didn’t get that “better life”; are you going to just lay down in the bed you made and forever be a victim? or are you going to be the independent woman you say you are and say, “Hell NO! I am better than this, I deserve to be loved, I deserve to be happy” and dust yourself off and start over. Yes it is hard, 5 years invested and you walk away with nothing except a broken heart, well take it from me; after 10 years it won’t be any easier, and certainly 20 years down the road will not be any easier. Years fly by and before you know it you will have spent most of your life afraid, angry and disrespected and you will look back and wish you would have left after 5 years.
          Yes life sucks, bad things happen to good people, you are only as pathetic as you make yourself. If you tell yourself you are pathetic, you can’t change, you will never be happy, you are a loser, you will never find a man who will love you, you are stuck in this relationship now; that is what you will get. If I could get back on my feet and start over without any money, no family, and no hope so can you. You never know what is around the next corner and you never will if you don’t take a chance and look.
          I have a feeling he is going to call and you are going to go running back, you are only here because he is not contacting you. The minute he does you will stop coming in here………until the next time he pulls a disappearing act, and I will still be here and I will tell you the same thing.
          HUgs
          Carrie

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          1. Good response Carrie 🙂 I sometimes feel that too this is a “waiting room” a place to come when the N goes silent. Sometimes the “help” asked for is just help to get thru the silence, or perhaps how to get the N back. I have thought about that many times that the blog can be used as a instruction manual on what NOT to do to piss the N off. How to get him to stay longer. Because we both know, eventually he WILL move on. Well, for every person that goes back there is a person that takes the words written here to heart, listens, absorbs and saves themselves and their children. YOU can feel very good about that!

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            1. Ellie, I was one of those women who would go running to the internet every time JC pulled a disappearing act or we “broke up”. I could relate to so much of what people were saying about being with an N BUT he and I were different, he really loved me, he would never really cheat, he was just making sure that he could if he wanted to, he could never tell two (or more) women he loved them at the same time, I was special, he would never find a woman who loved him like I did, no one else would understand him like I did, etc. then he would call or email, just show up at the door with that little boy who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, or he would call and use his “soft” voice and tell me how much he misses and his voice would crack when he said, “I love you Babe” and my heart would melt and for a few days, if I was lucky a few weeks; things would be great, and I would be so hopeful and so so much in love.
              But it never lasted and I would being in disabling pain again before too long.
              Many women come in here once or twice and then never come back but many end up coming back and say, “I should have listened to you the first time.”
              Some of us are slow learners.

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    2. Alma, I have done many posts on this topic and actually posted one today on it. I suggest you read some of my older posts, there are many reasons why a person stays or goes back to a narcissist and I can’t possibly cover it all in a reply.
      Brainwashing takes place, they make you dependent on them, you get addicted to the roller coaster ride of emotions, you are waiting for the sweet guy you met to return (it will never happen), some people are afraid of being alone, so many different reasons.
      The one thing you heed to realize is that the man you met was an act and he will never come back.
      If you are sure he has met your replacement do yourself a huge favor and dump his ass now. Go no contact and start to heal because if you take him back knowing he has screwed around you will be disrespecting yourself, he won’t appreciate it, he won’t reward you for being so sweet, he will just ramp up the abuse because he will think you deserve it for being so stupid to take him back. (he thinks you are stupid not me) I have been there. I went back so many times I lost count, I knew he had been with other women and didn’t leave him. And do you know what happened?
      The abuse got worse, the infidelity more blatant and when he finally dumped ME because he couldn’t take any more of MY shit I mentioned all the times he had screwed around. He said, “Yeah, so, what did you do?” I said, “I stayed.” and he said ,”Exactly!!”
      touche!!! He also told me it was my own fault he hurt me because I kept taking him back.
      You CAN go no contact, you can you just don’t want to. You want it to be out of your control, a love so strong you just cant stay away from each other. He will realize how lucky he is to have you and appreciate how understanding and forgiving you are and your dreams will come true and he will profess his undying love and never want to be with another woman for the rest of his life.
      Nice fantasy, but that is all it is and you CAN force yourself to stay away from him if you want to ever be happy. Many women in here thought they couldn’t survive without the N in their life and they are doing it and surviving and thriving.
      Hugs
      Carrie

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      1. You are right about it all. I am in a waiting room. I am in NC. I do feel alone and scared and confused. I want my first impression man back. But today I woke up. I went to work. I went to the gym. I am living. I am feeling. Sometimes I think why can’t I be like the N and not have feelings?

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        1. Alma, it is natural to feel all the things you are feeling and it does get better, promise. You are forcing yourself to get up and function, that is all you can expect right now. No contact is the only way to get over him, even if it is tough.
          I think we have all wished we could be like the N and not feel but I don’t think you really want that. There is nothing better than feeling love for someone, to care about someone, yes it leaves us open for more hurt but I would rather that than never know the feeling. I would never want to be a narcissist, selfishly fulfilling my needs without a thought about the people I hurt along the way. Leaving a trail of destruction and broken people in my wake.
          They are sub-human, a mistake, their brains didn’t develop like a normal person, they are disabled. with no way of being fixed. They are pitiful and sad really. But don’t feel too sorry for them, they will only use it against you.
          One day at a time Alma
          Hugs
          Carrie

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  3. Reblogged this on The Narcissist's Son and commented:
    Carrie Reimer posted an email exchange on her blog https://ladywithatruck.com/ that she and I shared regarding learning to date again after being in an abusive relationship. Carrie is the survivor of a 10 year relationship with a severely narcissistic man and does a fantastic job providing insight to others that are victims of abuse. I think she brings out many excellent points.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. Thanks for sharing, Carrie 🙂

    After rereading our entire exchange, I think the biggest takeaway is to always trust your gut. Your gut doesn’t lie. When we have been subjected to abusive situations, we learn not to trust our gut instincts and let others talk us out of what our gut is telling us. You’re right, we are lying to ourselves and discrediting our own instincts when we allow ourselves to continue to be subjected to abuse.

    I have spent the majority of my life not trusting my gut. When I figured out how badly I was ignoring my gut throughout my life, I wrote an analogy called Get off the Tracks! which I later put on my blog. The link to the analogy can be found here -> http://thenarcissistsson.wordpress.com/2013/10/04/get-off-the-tracks/

    Stephen

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Stephen, I checked out your post “Get off the tracks” you aren’t going to believe this but I have used that analogy myself but in a little different way. When I have had someone in my blog who just can not leave the narcissist, they keep in contact even though they continually get hurt. I liken how I feel to watching them walking on railway tracks. I am up on a hill and can see them on the tracks with the train barreling down on them. I am screaming to get off the tracks, waving my arms, jumping up and down, but the person doesn’t hear me. The train is getting closer and I am screaming louder but the sound of the narcissist’s voice is drowning out the sound of the train and my screams and I am helpless to stop it. The person is going to be annihilated and I can’t get through to them.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Wow isn’t that ironic how we both came up with a very similar analogy! I think your version speaks really well to the truth that says we can’t save anyone. We can intervene, yell, kick, scream,and throw things. and if the person whose attention we are trying to get chooses to continue down the same path, there is nothing we can do about it. In my opinion, we can’t save anyone, Period.

        Stephen

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  5. I was following Stephen’s blog and now I’m following yours too. The only thing I can say is THANK YOU! (For opening my eyes :)). It took me years to leave an abusive man and I almost fall for a narcissist. What’s wrong with me!?!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. DotedOn, First of all welcome!! Second of all; do you really want an answer to the question “What is wrong with me?” because no one can answer that for you. There are so many reasons why a person stays in an abusive relationship or gets involved in one abusive relationship after another. Have you been to counseling? did you grow up in an abusive home, do you have low self esteem? are you afraid of being alone? Do you feel you need a man to be whole? Do you feel unworthy of respect and love? Only you can answer those questions and even then the answer might not be in any one of those questions.
      One of the biggest mistakes people make is to get involved again too quickly after leaving a narcissist, they immediately go looking for someone to put them back together, tell them that they are lovable and a good person, which leaves them totally open to the love bombing that an N does in the beginning of a relationship.
      Anyone can become a victim of a narcissist because they are such good actors and morph into the exact perfect partner for their target but if you have a history of abusive relationships then you really need to look at what it is in you that draws you to them and I would suspect it is the need to be loved because that is what the narcissist fakes so well in the beginning.
      May I suggest you go back and read some of my past posts on brainwashing, deception, empaths, and self doubt amongst other posts. There are almost 700 posts covering every topic imaginable to do with abusive relationships and why we are sucked into them and why we stay.
      You might have a better idea of why you get into these relationships once you have read up on it a bit.
      Good luck and you are not alone, I will be happy to answer any questions you have if you can narrow it down a bit.
      Hugs
      Carrie

      Liked by 1 person

        1. I would like to echo Carrie’s comment: I believe that understanding how we get ourselves into such horrible predicaments is paramount to understanding ourselves and why we keep repeating the same pattern. If we don’t understand our contribution to the pattern, we won’t be able to stop it.

          Best wishes on your healing journey, DotedOn.

          Stephen

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  6. Great post!

    Thank you for sharing the conversation which you and Stephen had.

    I think that the conversation you had with each other is a good example of a healthy interaction between a man and a woman, between individuals who are treating each other with respect, and frames what you were discussing with a wonderful juxtaposition. You’re discussing unhealthy relationships yet the way you are relating is healthy, as though saying through action and example – this is how it is done.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. anupturnedsoul, why thank you! I enjoyed the exchange of ideas with Stephen, I enjoy intelligent conversation with a person who is willing to see all sides and doesn’t have to “win” all the time or be “right” all the time. It is also nice to have a man’s perspective on things in this female dominated environment.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. And I’m going to blow everything right out of the water now by saying it doesn’t matter how NICE someone seems, it doesn’t matter loving or focused on you they are, how gentlemanly behaved they may be, how many times they tell you they really really really love you or how nice they appear at work, at home or with others who would never guess that twenty years in your brain can get slammed with such a shock, you never recover. Or you spend the rest of your life trying to recover. As I am. No more Mr. Nice Guys for me. Give me real, give me truth and don’t keep secrets. If I see so much as a hint of secrecy in anything now, even with female friends, my guard goes up instantly. Narcissism strikes me as addiction to the self and addictions to live with can be murderous to the soul. They rob everyone and everything of its goodness, hollowing out others to the point of sheer numbness. My 20 year female friend also shocked me. Had no clue she was such a narcissist until she SPIED on me to bed him (after I left). You just look at everyone one day and think you know who and what you are dealing with and the next day, BAM. Not what you thought at all.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. You are right Janni, I agree with you. They all are nice, at first. almost too nice LOL The thing is they ALL keeps secrets, no matter how much WE demand honesty, they will swear even on their childrens lives, they are telling the truth even as they lie through their teeth!!!Unless we are hyper vigilent there really is no way to tell, and damn are they good at keeping the persona until, well, they don’t want to any more. Unless, we are listening to our guts. That really is the key. I have learned over time IF you feel this over whelming intense draw to someone BEWARE. Bells and whistles along w/ fireworks are very very bad! Love grows slowly and takes time. Trust takes time. And trust has to be earned.

      As far as your friend using the term loosely, I am sorry 😦 But, that is a good example of how women do not know how to be or care to be loyal to one another. Most just want a man, any man and don;t care how they get one or what they have to do to keep one. They both deserve each other. She is no different than you , trust me. We all he expiration dates when it comes to N’s.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Funny thing? They only lasted about 18 months because both are very needy and need the spotlight and well, you know that just doesn’t work out, lol. Sad thing? She destroyed our friendship out of her own choice and I can’t even stand to hear her name any more. Thinking of cutting her out of my family albums over the years, too, lol.

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        1. Oh, are they not together any more? not surprising but that’s nice, it put a smile on my face. She got what she deserved, she thought she was special, he would be different with her. You must feel at least validated now. Please tell me she didn’t contact you to cry the blues!
          Good to see you Janis, hope all is well with you.
          Hugs xxx
          Carrie

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          1. No she knows better than to ever bother me again, Carrie, she actually said to him, how rich, I can see now why Janice HAD to leave you. Guess knowing me for twenty years wasn’t good enough. It is validating but at the same time, I wonder if she ever has a conscience about any of it because she is uber upyernose Catholic and get this: BLAMES me for her kicking me and being suspended from work for nearly two years. She seems to be a total sociopath but why in heck didn’t I spot that in her over twenty years. I don’t know. Some are such good actors for decades… you just can’t know a thing about them no matter the alarm bells… freaky. I’m doing okay. Recently diagnosed with a health condition that is trying my reserves but at least it is not terminal and now I know for sure my physical problems of the past two years were not, as the then doctor said, from stress. Hugs to you. ❤

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