Acceptance

Dating a narcissist requires a lot of acceptance.

Gradually over time the narcissist challenges the victim to accept the unacceptable. In my experience, the wospos accused me of being inflexible and judgemental, he also said that he had a hard time dealing with my negativity; that I always focussed on the negative and should be thankful for what I had.  His favorite saying was,”We are fed and watered aren’t we?” And he couldn’t handle MY warped views of reality.

I had never been accused of being a negative person, I had overcome adversity in my life, more than most people and didn’t let circumstances get me down. I always found a way to make ends meet, wasn’t afraid to work hard for things I wanted, I was motivated, not negative.

His mother praised his resilience. But was it resilience or lack of motivation? Was it resilience or a lack of principles? Was it resilience or out of touch with reality? When a person has the education and skills to make $30 an hour but they get fired from every job for stealing and end up living in squalor; is that resilience or refusal to live within the confines of what society deems acceptable behavior.

Typically a narcissist abhors rules and will seemingly go out of his way to break them; as if to prove he is above the laws other members of society abide by. I actually grew to dread walking out my door because the minute I did I had all the neighbors coming to  me with complaints about JC, how he had been up all night welding, banging, air compressor going, lights on; keeping everyone on the street awake. I would apologize and promise to talk to him, but every time I did talk to him about it he accused me of picking a fight and denied he was bothering the neighbors. I started telling people that if they had a problem with JC they should talk directly to him because I had no control over his actions and in fact he would, “shoot the messenger.”

For many years I made excuses for JC, he was highly intelligent and I knew that often times people who are near genius are rather eccentric, don’t need as much sleep as most people and  have a tendency to get bored with the mundane. I rationalized that he had been raised on a farm in Saskatchewan and hadn’t had to accommodate neighbors near by and that was why he didn’t consider the neighbors when he worked out in his shop at all hours. I blamed his upbringing to a degree because he was never taught to respect other people’s rights. His mother had told me that even as a wee child she would find him out in the shop in the middle of the night. One time when I was telling her about the neighbors being upset with JC for keeping them awake all night her response had been, “People are going to have to learn to accept that that’s just the way JC is.” and I had asked her, “But Mom, when does JC have to accept that people don’t have to accept him just the way he is?” She didn’t have an answer to that question but I figured I had my answer to why he was the way he was.

If a person is never taught how to be considerate how do they know? So I set about teaching him common decency. I found myself explaining things like, “If you take someone else’s possessions they will get pissed off and call you a thief.” It is not a “misunderstanding” when you take stuff that doesn’t belong to you. “It hurts me when you have personal ads, I consider it cheating.” “People call you a bullshitter when you lie about your accomplishments and embellish your past experiences, you are great the way you are, you don’t have to lie to impress people”. “I love you just the way you are, so will other people, but when you lie people lose respect for you, you become a joke and you have no need to lie.”

If you find yourself explaining to a full-grown man that lying is wrong, infidelity hurts you, stealing makes people angry and he should call if he isn’t going to be home at night; RUN!!

I think maybe he learned over the years that this behavior worked against him in the long run and he did get better at following some common decency rules of society. Or maybe he stopped doing things because I stopped reacting and stopped trying to do damage control so it fell on his shoulders and he got sick of dealing with angry neighbors. Mind you, the last year we were together we lived on a farm and he had gotten a 1970 Impala and was awake at after midnight revving the engine, over and over,here to tell him to shut it down; I was going to let him suffer the consequences of his action. After about an hour of this constant revving I was getting angry, it was as if he was doing it hoping for a reaction. I could not believe the neighbors weren’t reacting. I had my hand on the door, just about to walk out there when I heard a man’s voice, “What the Fuck are you doing? I have to work at 6 am!!” Then I heard JC, “Do you like my new car? Listen to it.” and he revved it again. I couldn’t believe his audacity and slid the door open a crack so I could hear better and call the police if the neighbor started beating him with a baseball bat or something. Then I heard a woman’s voice, “I live two houses away and I have been laying in bed for over an hour listening to you rev your engine. Shut that fucking thing off now and go to bed or I will call the police.” I could see her storm off down the driveway, wearing her house coat and slippers. I couldn’t hear the rest of what was said but the man went home and JC came inside and I pretended I didn’t know what happened. After that he was a lot quieter and the neighbor lady had actually come to me and said she appreciated that JC had been quiet at night ever since. I sat in the trailer listening to him, knowing full well that the neighbors were getting pissed off but I swore I was NOT going to go out t

That is not to say you  can teach the narcissist how to be a decent person, it only means that they can learn that certain behavior does not pay off for them, that is not empathy; in fact it is fine tuning their ability to manipulate others and go undetected for a longer period of time. Many narcissists/psychopaths are passive aggressive and have learned over time that obvious displays of anger works against them so they will seek revenge by destroying your property or making you miss an important event, etc As a narcissist ages he learns how to cover his true intentions better, they memorize more responses, have more practice faking appropriate emotions and have learned what behavior will get them in trouble. Many N’s are jealous, I never saw that in James, I didn’t think he was the least bit jealous and he always said jealousy was a wasted emotion. Yet upon reflection, with all the facts I see how he masked it, he had a tracking device on my truck, hacked into my phone, had hidden cameras and tape recorders, he sabotaged my truck to keep me at home. I never once got home before him and I always wondered how he managed to avoid getting home before me, but I know now he was tracking where I was. When I discovered he had hidden the camera and his sister and I figured out he was listening in on our conversations I should have been irate but I wasn’t, I thought it was silly, and laughed because I had nothing to hide and it must be pretty boring for him. I once again accepted unhealthy unacceptable behavior and didn’t view it as dangerous or controlling.

Studies have shown that children as young as 3 can be diagnosed with psychopathic tendencies because by that age children are developing empathy. You can see it in little babies, when one cries the others will join in. You can see empathy in animals, a dog will lay it’s head on your lap if you are sad or can pick up on the fact that you are sick and will lay quietly by your side. Empathy is a natural instinct of most creatures, whales, dolphins, dogs, children; if your partner, an adult can not see his actions are hurtful, do you really think you are going to be able to teach him empathy? What makes you so special that you are going to be able to accomplish something no one else has been able to do in the 20-40 years this person has been alive? Like in my case, I found myself thinking, “Why am I explaining basic common decency to a 40-year-old man?” The longer I was with JC the more came out about his past and the more I realized this man was just not normal and I was never going to be able to change his way of thinking, in fact I began to realize that he enjoyed the pain he caused. Simple things would hit me. Like when his sister had skin cancer on her face and his mother called to say his sister was having a really hard time because it had left a really bad scar. I suggested he send her a nice card and flowers or something and he had said, No, cards weren’t really his thing, it was something his sister would do. I said, “Exactly!! your sister likes cards, I am suggesting you do something nice for your sister. This isn’t about what YOU want.”

He used to talk about how he suspected his ex of cheating and he could not be with someone he could not trust yet he had many affairs with married women and had no problem cheating on me or the other women he dated. When I tried to explain why him having a personal ad on POF was so hurtful to me and used the analogy of how would he feel if the roles were reversed I got a blank stare. After we split and he was with the new woman he told me that he couldn’t talk to me any more because M got upset about it and he had the audacity to say, “You must understand, after all if you were in her shoes you wouldn’t like it either.” They have a habit of memorizing lines they hear from you and repeating them back to you later, which is totally frustrating!!

I learned to pick my battles and let some stuff go, what was really important to me? was it really my problem how he did business? I rationalized that if the neighbors were upset with him, it had nothing to do with me and I should let him deal with their anger and maybe he would learn from his mistakes but he didn’t seem to be a very fast learner and in fact seemed to do things purposely to anger my landlord or neighbors and eventually it would become my problem anyway. If I was evicted because of him, it was my problem.

If he pissed someone off in a business deal and they came after him to beat him up or kill him it became my problem pretty quickly. If he stole from people and they knew he was my boyfriend it was unlikely I would get their business hauling their scrap. It became glaringly obvious the time he stole a trailer from a business next door to where he and I had done a job, the guys saw him come back and take the trailer and they had my phone number and had looked up my address. I ended up leaving my house and driving around because they threatened to come over and wait for JC to show up and I could not convince them that I knew nothing about JC taking a trailer and didn’t know when I would see him again. My calls to JC landed on deaf ears and he eventually stopped answering his phone and totally ignored my pleas for him to take the trailer back because these guys were coming over and I was in danger.  It was at that point I realized, finally, that JC was not the least bit concerned about me or my safety and he would have let these guys do whatever to me because he just didn’t give a shit.

People assume that you are a couple and you have some influence over the other person’s actions. I had co-workers of his come to me and ask me to talk to JC about calling if he wasn’t going to show up for work, his family members calling to get me to have him call them, friends coming to me because they were angry with him, neighbors and landlords demanding I do something about him.

He was so good at denying and coming up with some plausible excuse why he didn’t think it was stealing, I couldn’t help but give him the benefit of doubt and obviously many other people felt the same way because he would get fired from jobs for stealing but he was never formally charged by anyone. When the N doesn’t get charged by the people he steals from the victim has even more reason to doubt their perception of events. Had anyone ever charged him with stealing maybe I would have trusted my instincts more, but he always got off.

JC will tell everyone that he got me started in scrap and he gave me all his customers and connections which is almost funny because in actual fact I hid the fact that he was my boyfriend because I was afraid to be associated with him for fear he had stolen from someone or they had heard about him. In two separate cases I was given the contract to haul the customer’s scrap because for a long time they hadn’t had anyone hauling for them because they had been ripped off so badly by some guy named James they hadn’t allowed anyone on their property since.

I became really torn, how could I be involved with a man I was ashamed to be associated with? What did that say about me? my principles? If I knew he was breaking the law did that not make me as guilty for accepting it? It was after the trailer incident, when my life had been threatened yet again that it finally sunk in and I dumped him, moved and refused to allow him to visit me in my new place. I still had a hard time staying away from him but would meet him for something to eat, would talk to him every day but I was able to stay firm about not allowing him to move into my new place and he finally left the province and I was relieved.

It was easy to do no contact because I wasn’t seeing him everywhere and before he left he had come to me and asked if he could use my shower and do a load of laundry, he had flowers and was all sweet, like they can be; and I allowed him in and yes, we had sex, he said he loved me and I left for work and made him leave the same time as me. He left the next day without a word and sent an email a couple of days later saying that he had thought it was best he leave that way. I sent him a scathing reply and promptly blocked him. I then had a gut feeling I should check history on my computer and I was able to get into his POF profile again. (That should not be possible, I didn’t know his password, I just clicked on the link in history and it took me right into his account. Sometimes I swear God intervened in order to give me the information I needed) I found that he had been talking to women for months setting up to meet them in Red Deer, telling some of them that he just had a “gut feeling” they were the one and he always followed his gut feelings. He laid it on really thick with some of them and with those ones I sent a short message of warning, but it was enough for me to really be DONE this time.

I barely shed a tear, I was so done! After 8 years of being evicted because of him, him sabotaging my vehicles, the infidelity, the lying and stealing, my life being threatened, I really was enjoying my life without him. I found it so easy that I had a false sense of security and immunity to his manipulation. I felt I was so “on to him” that he could never suck me in again. But I still didn’t know what I was dealing with. I had read a bit about narcissists but only a list of traits that he seemed to have most of, I still did not know the depths to which they will go for revenge, or that they are incapable of empathy or love. I still assigned him human emotion and thought he had hurt me as much as was humanly possible. I thought I had him all figured out so when he called months later on my land line ( he had never used my landline number but later he confessed that he had called the house because he knew I had didn’t have call display on my house phone) out of the blue, I took the call when I heard his voice on the answering machine.

It was a matter of minutes, had I walked out the door 2 minutes earlier I would have missed the call, I had my hand on the door knob about to walk out on my way to work when I heard the phone ring. I was going to let the answering machine take it but hesitated and heard his voice, I froze, it had been months and the sound of his voice threw me. You have no idea how many times I wish I would have kept walking and just let him leave a message, maybe with the day to think about it I would have been more aware and cautious but no, I ran to get the phone. The battle between my head and heart began. I kept telling myself I didn’t care about him, I was just curious about what lies he was going to tell me this time. I actually couldn’t wait to hear what bullshit story he had concocted. I felt strong and in control, I was doing well with my business, I had been on a couple of dates, I was able to have a conversation with him and get off the phone without any longing. He was in Alberta, and doing well, I was doing well, I had remained friends with ex’s before, had exs call to just see how I was; this was no different.

But I spent the day thinking about him, I told myself that was normal, it didn’t mean anything but then I received an email from him (I had kept in touch with his mother and he got my email address from her) saying how good it had been to talk to me again and he missed me. He started slow, knowing to keep it light, and it worked, the more emails I got, the more friendly phone calls I got, the more I relaxed.

I had missed our conversations, it was the one thing we always had, we could talk for hours, he understood me like no one else ever had. It may sound crazy but I still felt we had a special connection and even if we couldn’t be lovers we could be friends. I remember the day I had the best money-making day I had so far hauling scrap and I knew he could relate so I called him to share my good news and he was excited for me, I could hear it in his voice. You know how you can hear someone smiling over the phone? He was so good at voice inflection, softening his voice when he said he loved me, he had perfected the hesitation in his speech, of someone fighting their feelings of love and finally giving in and admitting against his will that he was still in love with me.

He was accomplishing what he set out to do, he had me thinking about him again, looking forward to his calls, checking to see if he had called. The sound of his voice gave me butterflies again and again I began to feel like we had something a person just doesn’t find everyday, a connection stronger than either of us. He did know me better than any other man ever had, he knew exactly what I needed to hear, he knew how to make me feel like what I had to say was important and he was interested in my life, pleased for me when good things happened and cared if I was unhappy. When he wanted to, he could be the most intuitive  and sensitive guy I had ever been involved with and I fell in love with him all over again.

When he came to town to talk to me, told me he had been given 6 months to live, a part of me didn’t believe him and was saying, “Don’t fall for it!” but then there was the rational, logical part of me saying, “Why would he lie? I hadn’t called him, he is attractive and could have any woman, he doesn’t need me. Why would he apologize for things that happened years ago if he didn’t mean it? If he hadn’t realized how much he loved me and hadn’t changed why would he make such an effort from so far away?” My rational mind told me that sometimes a person doesn’t realize what they had until its gone and this had been the first time since we met that we had been apart and not talked for any length of time, it had been the first time I hadn’t broken down and called him, it was the first time I had been strong and not given in to him, maybe he had time to think about all he had lost. It isn’t easy to find someone who loves you as much as I loved him, sure dating someone new is exciting but to find someone you have a lot in common with, someone who accepts you the way you are and appreciates you for you is not so easy. I thought, “What have I got to lose? I am independent again, I know him inside and out, I can predict what sets him off” and I had to admit I had built a wall around myself, keeping him at arm’s length because I was afraid of being hurt.

He promised total honesty, admitted to everything he had ever done wrong, told me he realized I was the only woman he wanted or would ever need, he cried, and most importantly we had talked for hours about sensitive issues and not once gotten defensive or angry. We were calm and rational and listened to each other and it was so easy for me to feel giving and loving towards him because I felt he was really listening to me. It was very easy for me to see where I had failed him in the relationship when he had been so open and willing to own his mistakes. I thought we had come so far, really grown, that time apart had done us both a lot of good and now that we had admitted and discussed the areas where we had issues and now that we both realized that there was no one better out there, we could commit to “us” 100% and as long as we kept the lines of communication open and we were honest with each other we could make it work. And he had promised total honesty and only asked for time to prove to me he had changed and I told myself that at the first sign of his old behavior I would be strong enough to walk away.

The first 8 years were painful and he was abusive and I had never been as hurt by any other man, I thought there was no way he could hurt me more than he already had and I would be more aware than before so able to protect myself better than before.

The first 6 months to a year after we got back together were some of the best times we had ever had but once he knew he had me dependent on him (the house deal fell through and my mom had disowned me) we fell back into the same relationship we had for the first 8 years only the dance had changed in many ways. The first eight years we had a pattern of behavior we both fell into. We would fight, I would cry, he would say it was over and storm out, one of us would call the other, we would make up, have sex and things would be good for a while. I could predict when he was getting ready to explode, I was able to get through to him at times but at times during the last year I felt I didn’t know him at all.

The last year was abusive beyond anything I could have ever imagined. It was like the first 8 years were with a one man and the last year I had entered the twilight zone and was living with the devil himself. Many things about the relationship were different, I couldn’t predict what would set him off, sex became practically non-existent and he rarely concerned himself with pleasing me, he didn’t even take his jeans off half the time, he rarely said he loved me, he was far more conniving, told much bigger lies, was so much better at deceiving me, the physical abuse was more frequent and he seemed less able to control it. He seemed less able to hide his disdain for me. I know now he came back to get revenge for me breaking up with him when I moved into the trailer, he had one goal in mind when he came back and that was to destroy me, my business, my family relationships, and in general make me pay, get what he could from me and discard me in the most cruel way possible.

I am not saying he came all the way from Alberta just to screw me up. I think things didn’t come together like he had planned, he wasn’t able to hook the woman he had planned, maybe she caught on to him or maybe he wanted to make her jealous and get her doing the “pick me dance”. Whatever the reason he needed ns and knew I was a good source, if he could win me back it would serve as great ns until he could set something else up and I think now that he had gotten into drugs while out there and needed to get clean and that seeing as he didn’t have malaria, the attacks I nursed him through were actually withdrawal from some drug. Whatever the reason was for him to come back to me, it was not because of love; he needed something and I had it; and in his mind whatever bad happened to him was my fault for dumping him.  I was convenient at the time. Had he been able the suck in another better victim with more to offer he wouldn’t have bothered with me. I have no doubt I would have heard from him at some point if only to see if he could still suck me in, because I know he kept in touch with other exs sporadically.

So when you find yourself “accepting” unacceptable behavior, making excuses for his behavior, defending your values and explaining why you have a right to be suspicious, hurt, or angry, stop and think about it;

– why do you know right from wrong? yet he doesn’t.

– why are you afraid to talk to friends about what is going on? (because you know they would not tolerate it or even have to deal with it because their man doesn’t do shit like that)

You really only have one thing you have to accept………. the truth. The man you fell in love with was a sham. A full-grown man does not need to be taught common decency, in fact most normal children know about empathy and decency without any training, animals raised in the wild show more empathy and concern for other living creatures than the man who professes to love you.

– AND if he is so right and you are such a nut case, paranoid and demanding why does he deny, blame others, lie about it and hide it, expect you to lie and hide it.

– If you are so delusional why is he with you?

Accept this – that you made a mistake, you made a bad investment, cut your losses and get out while the getting is good because it will never get better than it is right now.

 

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23 thoughts on “Acceptance

  1. “If you find yourself explaining to a full grown man that lying is wrong, infidelity hurts you, stealing makes people angry and he should call if he isn’t going to be home at night; RUN!!”

    Or chase them with an aluminum bat, and a few bags of pee.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Thank you Carrie. I got the feeling you were baring your soul on this post. There’s still so much pain. You’ve paid so much for this mistake which you were deceived and manipulated into making! My ex found a better NS, with nice home, lucrative business and mucho $$$$.

    Sometimes, I wonder why was able to to last only 1 yr 5mos with mine, while the ex’s OW still going strong with him 3 yrs 8 months+ with him…but then I’ve already indicated why.

    But you know what? I’m okay with that! At 69 he’s uglier than homemade sin, has health issues, and looks every day of his life! As a good friend of ours told me, maybe he was the best she could do!

    She looks a lot like Robin Williams in the movie Mrs. Doubtfire. She looks at least a good ten years older than me, and no doubt the Ex will put a lot more mileage on her! Poor thing! Her I mean!

    He gets to live the Life of Riley now on Easy Street! He found himself a ATM-Cash Cow, sex slave, cook and maid! Okay. I have no doubt she’s being abused and mistreated!

    But I’m not! No, I’m living very well, in a modest lifestyle. Bills are paid, plenty of food, good health! I’m with my loving family, have good friends. All is well! I lack for very little in my life!

    No I think I deserve a lot better than him! I’ve met a lot of men in the last few years, but honestly, most of them are self-entitled jerks who expect a lot for very little! No Thanks! I’ll pass!

    I hope you will continue on the recovery path you have working on. I’m concerned for your health, especially your heart! You too deserve better! I hope everything works out for you and you lack for nothing! (Men, providing they are good men are optional! lol.) Big hugs!

    Liked by 2 people

    • “She looks a lot like Robin Williams in the movie Mrs. Doubtfire. She looks at least a good ten years older than me, and no doubt the Ex will put a lot more mileage on her! Poor thing! Her I mean!
      He gets to live the Life of Riley now on Easy Street! He found himself a ATM-Cash Cow, sex slave, cook and maid! Okay. I have no doubt she’s being abused and mistreated!”

      I have to ask, are you under the assumption that the less attractive someone is , the longer they stay with the N? If that is what you are stating then I have to disagree, totally. There are women her that have /had been with their N’s 10 plus years, some more than 30. I guess the way you put it that makes them less attractive than Mrs. Doubtfire? LOOKS. having them or not has absolutely nothing to do with why an N is with someone. Their reasons, how they pick their victims are their own. They are getting something “NS” in some form from each victim.

      I guess it is human nature to put down the one that “replaced” us but truly it sounds alot like sour grapes.

      We are all the OW at some point. No better no worse…………

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      • I agree with Ellie. I think we all tend to compare ourselves with the new woman. I know i did and I have to admit I got some satisfaction from the fact that my ex’s new woman is not very attractive.
        from what I know of my ex’s past he always dated really attractive women, his first relationship was a woman much older than him from a wealthy family. She had never worked and her daddy paid for anything she wanted, including JC. That relationship lasted almost 12 years, but he screwed around on her for years before he finally left and kept her on the hook for the rest of her life. She was a very attractive woman though and after he left she just never recovered.
        The next one was a lot younger than him and again very pretty but she was still in school so didn’t have money and she left him because her parents took her away.
        Any pics I saw of his ex’s were all very attractive women so I was surprised to see him with someone plain and frumpy but she has money and the woman he had his sights on had a jealous husband so he had to dump that one.
        Who knows how long this one will last, i predict it could be a long time because she has invested all her money in him and she won’t want to walk away and lose it all. She is a widow and thought she had met this wonderful man and she is not going to let go of the dream easily. Who knows how long he will last, that depends on if he meets a woman with more money that he can suck in and if he can lead his double life without too much hassle.
        The thing with being with a narcissist, the stress of the relationship takes such a toll on a woman’s looks. I looked like a war refugee after a few years with him, sunken cheeks, vacant look in my eyes, underweight, no life to me and from the pics I have seen of his new woman she is aging quickly and her eyes are dead. There is something that happens to the eyes of a person who is abused and broken.
        No matter what I don’t blame the new woman, I feel sorry for her and i understand totally why she fell for him and I know how he manipulated her and how he will keep her on her toes.
        She is not an attractive woman and I am sure he has told her how all the women he’s been with were beautiful, at first she will feel so special and beautiful because of all the attention he would lavish on her but when he drops the mask her insecurities with come to the surface and he will use them to keep her in line.
        And the narcissist lives in a fantasy world of his own making, he isn’t making love to the woman in his bed, he doesn’t even like sex, he just uses it to lure women in. Since he doesn’t really like sex or intimacy he is always faking it with women anyway so how they look only matters as far as the the impression he wants to make on other people.
        I used to be embarrassed when people told me how JC bragged about me and my talents. He would totally go over board about my gardening, my cooking and painting and tell people to hire me to do work for them. I was no where near good enough, he was exaggerating. It would really put me on the spot. While I was still visiting his blog he would go on and on about her talents to the point of being totally unbelievable. How she logged the trees and milled her own lumber for the house her and her husband built. She even harvested her own granite for the kitchen counter. To him, it is all attention for him, if he has a wonderful woman he must be a wonderful guy and if he is in love with an unattractive woman it makes him a really nice guy that isn’t hung up on appearances, a really down to earth kinda guy.
        It is all an act, his whole life is orchestrated and a lie.

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      • No, of course not! The spin on attractiveness Ellie 2013 is what you put on it from your perspective! Not mine! I’m really disappointed that that was all you got out of it!

        Unfortunately, that also appears to be where Carrie picked your spin up, from there, as I never said any such thing about attractiveness or lack thereof being the determinator of how long a victim will last with an abuser although I think sometimes it can have some bearing!

        What I indicated was her wealth, and property holdings (READ MEAL TICKET!) as being the bait that drew him to her, and why he’s stuck with her so long! You missed my point entirely!

        Please try in the future to read more throughly before judging out of hand. But I know you mean well and had good intentions. Thank you for responding!

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        • Hmmmm, then WHY compare the OW to Mrs Doubtfire if you were not alluding to her unattractiveness? And compare how long he has been with her compared to you? I believe I read the intent to “down” her and raise yourself “up” correctly. I read the posts several times before responding, thank you 🙂 Also, let me point out that the N you recovered from , the same one that you now refer to as “At 69 he’s uglier than homemade sin, has health issues, and looks every day of his life! As a good friend of ours told me, maybe he was the best she could do!” could not have changed that much in a few years. Perhaps she has made him “look” that way? Her fault , I guess. And to say and repeat that with him being the “best” she could do, alludes to her attractiveness or lack of it. since if he is uglier than sin where does that leave her?

          I can assure you NO ONE needs to put a “spin” anywhere as far as Carrie is concerned. She’s a real sharp lady. I have never heard her OW “bash” as she knows, as stated , we have all been there, been the OW at some point. It’s just not conducive to healing.

          Truthfully, what he does, says , uses the other woman for is NONE of our concern. Our concern should stay with US, what we need to do to get to a place where we are at peace with ourselves. Not continue to wonder and speculate why he left us and justify why he did. Be glad he is gone.

          “She looks at least a good ten years older than me” Why is that so important that it needed to be mentioned? OH right, he only wants her money. If that makes you feel better, run with it.

          We all have different ways of healing I guess.

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        • Only me this statement confuses me
          “Unfortunately, that also appears to be where Carrie picked your spin up, from there, as I never said any such thing about attractiveness or lack thereof being the determinator of how long a victim will last with an abuser although I think sometimes it can have some bearing!”
          I wasn’t being critical of you or “siding” with Ellie, i you read my very long comment I basically just stated my observation and my own experiences.
          I responded to your statement and Ellie’s comment with my personal opinion on the attractiveness of the new woman. I thought your statement of the new woman did sound like sour grapes but I didn’t say that because I had to admit I have been known to derive some delight in the fact that my ex’s new woman is not as attractive as me and is younger than me. But I must admit that most of my sour grapes came from her holier than thou attitude, which of course was fed by him and not really her fault.
          I truly feel sorry for his new woman, he even told me that she was raised very sheltered by parents that came from “the old country”. To him that would translate into “naive” “easy mark” “easy to impress”.
          I was not worldly by any stretch of the imagination but I had done a lot of dating, I had been divorced, I had always worked. Here is this woman who married her childhood sweetheart, is widowed and her husband ensured she would never have to work a day in her life by building a suite downstairs where she could live and rent out the upstairs. Enough money in the bank and invested to live comfortably and always the income from the suite upstairs. She was set and all she needed was a man to fill the empty spot where her husband used to be.
          I can well imagine how blessed she felt to meet JC, handsome, worldly, and abused by a bitch like me and there she is, ready to save him, show him what real love is all about, support him and love him, and he played the part of the doting loving husband, who had never known love until he met her. She changed his life forever, everything good in his life comes from loving her and that bitch Carrie had ruined his life, bled him dry, yada yada yada
          Now she is living 9 hours away from her family, sold her home and invested the money into a fixer upper with the wospos, no rent coming in from a suite upstairs, and there she is totally dependent on the wospos. Now the ride from hell begins and she has no way out except to lose a lot of money.
          I have ranted about how stupid she was to give him $20,000 when she hadn’t even known him 6 months, it is easy to feel critical of the new woman and to even cut down the wospos but we all have to admit that we were just as sucked in as the next woman. I can look at JC now and wonder what I ever found attractive about him and I can see what a loser he was but at the time I was heart broken when we broke up. I am embarrassed to admit I begged him to not do it and I know I was just making him look more attractive to her. and lets face it, if he was that bad why was I so upset to lose him?

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    • Only Me, thank you for your concern. As far as recovery from the wospos I am over him. I am very sure he would never suck me in again but I still don’t want to test it. I am afraid of the evil that surrounds him, it is like Ebola, highly contagious and deadly. Even if you are not involved with them in a relationship, if they are any where near you their toxicity seems to seep into your life.
      I am the happiest I have ever been and taking life as it comes, holding on to the belief that God has a plan and my life will fall into place just as it should. I hope that means I get to go to school but if not I am sure he has something planned.
      My physical damage to my heart will never mend and that can make me sad because I have so many things to live for now. I can’t believe I ever tried to kill myself because I felt i had nothing to live for. But none of us know when our time will come and I am grateful for every day I have on this earth.
      Finances are my only concern.
      I have put an ad on a dating site for mature people and had lots of interest but not replied to any of them. I have to remove my ad, it isn’t fair, put I just haven’t had the time to even close my account, so not likely I have time to date. My life is so full I don’t know how I would fit a man in. Fine by me!!
      I have dated many great men in my life and some not so great and then there was the wospos. I have no regrets but don’t feel like sharing my life with anyone, not right now anyway.
      Big hugs back to you!! its nice to see a woman who is healed, happy and knows her worth!!

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  3. It’s been just over 4 weeks since i ceased all contact with my N, the loneliness and emotional pain is unbearable at times, i have told only a handful of people who know him well and all have supported me to stay away, i am in domestic violence and rape counselling and it helps, at least she understands my grief, i am grieving the man who was good to me, who on the surface seemed changed. As i look back the alarm bells were ringing, we had been together 3 years and broke up for 10 months then slowly he lured me back in, he appeared to have changed but the change only really lasted a few months, i too believed this man was the only one who really understood me and cared for me, it turns out he never really told me much about his inner self, he was just gathering information about my insecurities and vulnerabilities and then in the nastiest possible way he used them against me, i fear what he may do to me as i’ve seen how he treated others, the anger,rage and hatred in him is deep seeded. My counsellor says the ‘good man’ is dead and he is dangerous, my head knows this but my heart pines for him, he isn’t capable of understanding the pain he has caused, never in the past accepted responsibility for his actions, and never apologised – so i have to remind myself of this every moment of everyday. They say time is what will help me heal. But if i am honest to myself i want him back and believe that he could change, i’m only kidding myself – right ?? Thanks for your post, perhaps it will give me the strength and acceptance to get through another day.

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    • Lonely, please give yourself more time, 4 weeks is not long enough to feel the benefits of no contact. It takes a few months at least before you start to notice you aren’t as tense, your not waiting for the other shoe to drop, that sense of impending doom has left you and good things are coming into your life on a regular basis.
      In not too long you will get to the point of not wanting to talk to him because you don’t want to ruin your good mood and lightness you feel.
      You will still miss him but the peace of not having him in your life will override the desire to see him. You will know that to see or talk to him will only bring you grief and it just isn’t worth it to contact him.
      Yes, you are only kidding yourself by thinking he could ever change. Even if he called and apologized for everything, it would all be a lie. Look at what happened to me! and I am not an isolated case, any woman who has gone back to a narc will tell you the same story.
      Many women have gone back in the 4 years I have had this blog and every single one of them has come back and said they wish they would have listened to me when I said they never change. The abuse was always worse and because you forgave and went back the pain is even worse and you have to start all over again from square one.
      Please give it more time. Your counselor has said he is dangerous, believe it!! to go back you are playing with fire and could end of dead. I am not exaggerating; it always gets way worse when you go back.
      You will survive and it does get easier. hang in there.
      Hugs

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  4. For me it is now one an a half year ago I left all of a sudden. I was reading about narcissism and all fits in. He wasn’t physically abusive, only by saying and doing things. And a voice in my head said ‘you have to leave’. Then we start seeing each other sometimes. I was physically very attracted to him. But he kept saying and doing his things and I went on no contact in February. I know he thinks it is all my fault. I am the one who left. And really it is a very upsetting time for me. I still cannot see all benefits of being without him, but I still remain in no contact. In the meanwhile there is another woman, who called me a fucking bitch, because I left the good man and only stayed with him for his money. So I know what he is telling her. For him she is the answer of not being alone and very important, having sex.
    Now I stopped taking anti depressives and everything started all over again. The obsessive thoughts etc. I told the psychologist, if only I could make a little hole in my head and take out the thoughts of him, that would be so relieving. Now I am going to get EMDR. I hope this will help.
    There are people telling me that it is normal after 31 years. That I am not over him yet. But I hate it so much. It was not a normal relationship, he was not a normal person. I was not leaving, because I want to leave, but because I had to. And I think, that is the hardest part of it all.

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    • Elisabeth, when I calculate how long a person has been trying to recover from a narcissist I take it from the first day they went no contact. Any time prior to going no contact the victim was not healing in anyway because the N will take any opportunity he has to tear the victim down again. So in reality you have been trying to heal for 8 months, not that long after 31 years.It slowly gets better and better but i didn’t feel healed and “free of him” for 2 years. Even this year, year 3, I have noticed a huge difference from last year. Although I have to think of him pretty well daily because of the blog there are times I find it hard to even come up with something to write because I am so done with hurting. The pain is a distant memory and I am repulsed by the thought of what a loser he is and how hooked I was.
      I never would have left on my own which is so scary to me now. I only left because i had no choice, I was prepared to live with whatever abuse he dished out for the rest of my days because I didn’t think I could live without him in my life. I thought I would never find peace and happiness and now 3 years no contact and I am so thankful to not have him in my life any more. He still pops into my dreams sometimes but it doesn’t even upset me any more.
      The only residue of him left in my life is I am afraid at night, I never used to be nervous but now I am afraid he will try to harm me and I will get very nervous if there is noise outside and the dog gets upset. But that is better than never being able to go to bed at night without fearing what he might do while I sleep.
      I think sometimes anti depressants can be good but they really just mask your emotions and dull them, when you go off them the emotions are still there and they have to be dealt with. I think sometimes they slow down the healing process, put it on hold and eventually you end up having to face them to release them and heal.
      I hope EMDR (whatever that is) helps. I found that I forced myself to think of other things, self counselled and with time I retrained my brain and broke the programming he had done to my thought processes. After all the abuse is much like what POW’s go through, or hostages and it is brainwashing. You don’t “just get over that” it takes reprogramming your brain.

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  5. Amazing how they can promise you the world and want to be with you forever then do the switch and revert back to being a juvenile and accuse you of being a nutcase with mental issues when things don’t go their way. Spread rumours via others, etc..etc.. Normal people just get on with their lives but they dont have one and love creating havoc for the victim so make a point of involving themselves in yours to appear the saint to everyone you know. No emotional intelligence of how you would expect a grown adult to perform. Let them carry on they’re the ones making a racket to hide the real selves that they are. They believe their own lies. Be and find your own happiness. When you do (with a lot of therapy) you’ll feel the wealthiest person on the planet.

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  6. Charlie, thanks for your comments, you are so right. Once a victim gets past being a victim and realizes their worth they find inner peace they never thought possible. There is nothing like a narcissist to make a person thankful for the small blessing in life.

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  7. In a word Carrie.. “Wow” .. Another thought provoking and inspiring post. Thank you. It does however truly break my heart to read of anyone’s suffering at the hands of an N. Every time I read of your accounts with your wospos I can’t help but feel utter sorrow to think of all of what you endured. And yet you share your experiencing to aid others and not to seek pity nor gain some accolade. I still to this day do not think I’d be where I am now were it not for your shared experiencing Carrie and guidance. So I thank you again for sharing your heart to each of us here.

    Sure, my experiencing was much less than others, but I am sure it goes without saying that any amount of time being subjected to such torture is damaging to one’s being. I rode upon a very rough storm before, with no idea if I’d ever see the clear waters and calm ahead. I honestly thought that at one stage, I’d be on this ride for a long while yet.. I accepted the unpredictability of the “waves” that were ever encroaching. But somehow I grew courage and strength to fight past the ever unpredictable nature of a narcissist. I grew tired of being thrown about emotionally and physically. Sure I felt unsettled and disorientated, much like anyone would after riding through a “storm”. I “accepted” my fate at the time, all the excuses, lies, humiliation, manipulation to name a few. I shudder now when I think back to what I took as acceptable behaviour from my N. All the excuses for him, the guilt trips and so forth despite severe degradation. Whatever I gave he took a billion times back from me and then wanted more. It was never enough and I grew physically tired through trying to accept it all.

    Now I am reaching a profound point in my life to bid acceptance upon myself.. I wasn’t wrong to have endured this.. There was nothing I did or didn’t do. Accepting that I wasn’t to blame has taken some time, but am getting there. N’s have a lovely way of leaving you with a sense of not only being utterly crushed, but at times, as an empty shell not knowing what to accept as being right and true anymore.

    Sure I’m only 5 months nearly since my wospos departed my life, and am a little way yet from it all I know. But as time passes on I truly feel so very different but in an amazingly positive way. 🙂 This time last year I would have been visiting London with my N.. Initially I had thought this of being a good memory.. But when you look upon a situation with fresh eyes it’s truly remarkable to realise just how “blind” you were before. I’d remembered the few good parts to that time, but had forgotten all the soul destroying moments. I accepted being treated to a few nights away.. But what I also accepted was being shamed, bullied, again to name a few.

    Life does and can go on after an N. I truly wasn’t sure if it did some months before, but I promise those still undecided that it does, and it just gets better by the day. 🙂 Accept at least that you deserve a life much more loving and happy. It will come.
    With love and hugs from across the puddle. 🙂 x x x x x x x

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    • Tifa, thanks for commenting, you are doing amazingly well in your recovery. You are a very positive person and can always find something to be thankful for and you have always been willing to see where you can improve so it never happens to you again. It is not taking blame just realizing we are not powerless and can protect ourselves.
      Hug and love back to you my friend across the water. xxxx

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  8. Dear Carrie, I need some insight. I was involved with an N for approx 1 year. I broke it off and was devastated. i was never so hollow and empty in my life. I began to read about N’s. I went in and out of cog diss for a number of months allowing him to contact me. I even moved back to Canada and he still contacted me sporadically. A number of months ago he told me he had cancer. I didn’t believe him because I read that N’s will say this for pity and hoovering. After a couple of talks via skype I could see that he was having chemo. At that point I felt compassion for his suffering but still didn’t plan on going to see him. I didn’t know that it was life threatening. Back in August I found out that it was very bad and he was actually dying. He asked me to come and see him before he died. I went to his country to see him and say goodbye. Once I arrived he perked up a bit and asked me to stay overnight in the hospital with him. I did do this and to my surprise a few days before he died he apologized. We actually had a really sweet bonding time during the hospital visits. He died with me in the room peacefully one month ago. I have been overcome with grief ever since and I’m also reliving intense pain of the past I had with him which was horrible. I went through an horrendous idealization, Devaluation and Discard with him. He was sadistic in his abuse. I wasn’t over the trauma of the past with him and now I’m coping with his death. \I will be going back to where I live in a few days which is BC, Canada. This situation seems to have set off the PTSD once again and I’m feeling lost and empty again. Can you give some insight?

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    • Leslie, it is very understandable that you are having intense and conflicting emotions right now. Although it is nice to have validation in the form of a deathbed apology from him it is bound to cause a lot of emotional turmoil, you are still angry from the past, he apologized so now it is almost like you can’t be angry anymore. You are grieving the man you thought he was and yet angry at the man behind the mask.
      I know this is going to sound terribly cynical but I couldn’t help but think he got one more chance to mess with your head and heart. You do know that if he hadn’t been dying he wouldn’t have apologized or if he did it would have been a lie and he would have gone back to abusing you?
      In my opinion, you are to be praised for being the kind of person who would go to his death bed and not let him die alone. You can have a clear conscience, because I am sure you cared for him deeply at one time and you would never want anyone to die alone. I doubt he would have done the same for you, but you would have suffered guilt had you not gone.
      You didn’t say how long you have been separated from him but I am guessing around a year or year and half? After we have been apart from the N for awhile, just when we think we are healed something will trigger what I call a “healing crisis” and we will spiral back into despair and we feel we are right back to square one. It is really scary because we feel we will never heal and all that work we did healing was for nothing. What is happening is, when you were in the relationship you buried some of the pain and perhaps even blocked some events because you just could not deal with it at the time. Our minds do that out of self preservation. Once you are almost healed your mind allows you to remember those event you blocked and feel the feelings you buried. Now that you have dealt with most of the pain you are capable of dealing with those buried emotions.
      For some people the trigger can be something as simple as having a dream about him, hearing about him through friends, it happened to me several times, really badly when I found out he had gotten engaged. I was as bad as I was in the very beginning I don’t know if I was more upset about him or the fact that I was upset! And that is what happens, we start to get upset about the fact that we are upset. It is normal and it will pass, it will pass much quicker than in the beginning if you just succumb to it and let it happen. Cry, yell into a pillow, allow yourself to feel the feelings and release the toxicity from your body. No doubt being with him and having a bonding time has brought up old memories good and bad. You are going to have to process them again but like I said it will be easier this time and faster.
      You are dealing with the realization that it is truly over. Even if you had been no contact and telling yourself it was really over, there was still that possibility he would pop back into your life at any time and now he is really gone for or good and it is almost anti climatic, like there should be more, like you went through all that and now there is nothing over and you feel empty.
      here is a link on healing crisis I wrote a few years ago.
      That is why no contact is so important, I know this was extenuating circumstances but it never fails any contact from the N will send the victim spiraling back into the dark abyss of hurt, anger and reliving the relationship. Yours is especially painful because he died.
      Give yourself a break and let it happen. You are going through the same thing I went through when I broke no contact and he apologized and then I found out he had just gotten engaged. I was devastated, but it passed.
      Where abouts in BC, I am in BC.
      Hang in there, I am sure it will pass shortly, if not you may need to see your doctor. Have you ever gone to a support group or seen a therapist? You might want to plan a “pity party” or “healing party”, go through any old photos, rehash the whole relationship again, have a really good cry, try writing down all your feelings of anger, pain, sadness, disappointment and regret and burn it, to let it go once and for all, have a good friend over to help you celebrate the letting it go. Sometimes a symbolic gesture like that can release a person. I live in Mission and in Abbotsford there is a hobby store that sells tiny hot air balloons, I think you get 2 for around $25. i would put the letter in the hot air balloon and release it, let it rise until it is out of site and feel the negative energy of your ex float away with it.
      Good luck and big hugs to you

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  9. Thank you Carrie for this. That’s exactly what has happened. I feel the same empty desolation that I felt when I broke up with him and then realized what he was. The finality is very hard and the fact that he would not have apologized had he not been sick. The fact that it had to end the way it did. I do know he never would have done the same for me. It also occurred to me that he did get the last word and chance to play with my head and heart in the sense that I’m still left with all the questions and grief and he’s off the hook. Lots to work through. If I find this goes on to long I think I will look into grief counselling when I get back home. I’ll read the link you posted about healing crisis. Once I get back home I think that will help too. Thanks again for this insightful answer. It really does help.

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  10. Same exact statements she would tell me.
    Same excuses i would give her because of childhood issues.
    Same attempts to re parent her.
    Same bs about cheating while she was cheating.
    Same you’re the only one for me crap.
    Same belief we had something special. “soulmates”
    Same extreme abuse at final discard. No sex and I love you anymore as well.

    They seem to be all related in some way! ..And never change.

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