Why Are Women Attracted To Psychopaths?

I was cruising the internet again and came across a few sites that offered some interesting insight into psychopaths.  One of them is a site that has actually referred to some of my posts, called psychcentral, the link is here.

how-to-deal-with-a-psychopath

 

I have taken excerpts from a chat on the forum concerning why women are attracted to sociopaths (psychopaths) (sociopath and psychopath or the same thing, just some people prefer to use sociopath, there is debate that sociopaths are a product of their environment and psychopaths are born that way. But the DSM doesn’t recognize sociopath.)

Anyway the first reply to the question, “Why are women attracted to sociopaths” is from a self profess psychopath, Myers: and is in blue type. Comments from other people are in purple and orange to make it easier to follow the conversation. I didn’t want to use people’s names out of respect for privacy.

I have several answers for you, most of which appease my own ego. 

Psychopaths are very charming. I’m not exaggerating or gloating, either. It’s actually one of the criteria. Many psychopaths are so charming and cunningly deceitful that experienced criminal psychologists succumb to their charms to the point of giving them money, housing them, and even making attempts to get them out of prison. Again, I’m not gloating. There are case studies of this phenomenon.

A few other things… We live life on the wild side. Literally. Most women find this exciting, at least at first glance. We’re also quite mysterious. However, this is usually because most of our stories are lies and consequently quite vague. Our self-created history is usually based off cliche roles (i.e., the abused child who grew up to donate millions to charity, the man who nearly escaped cancer and is now living like there’s no tomorrow, the rags to riches businessman, and so forth). One would think people could see through these cliches and lies easily. But psychopaths are experts at playing on people’s emotional needs and desires. We can and will play any role that we think will please our love interest, business partner, friend, or other such person. This illusion of emotional attachment (as well as a cokctail (sic) of other charms and thrills) can be so strong that it blinds the psychopath’s partner of the inconsistencies in the psychopath’s many stories and manipulative tendencies. Any person who watches this relationship from the sidelines can (and usually does) notice how manipulative the psychopath is.

* Interesting. And probably true. Women are funny. They love the “bad boy” yet, they cry and complain when their calls and emails go unanswered. 

* I wonder how exciting it’ll be for them once their bank accounts are empty and they’re no longer considered useful?

* And why let themselves get abused and not walk away? Self-loathing?

* I doubt most are like….”Um, hi! I am abusable Miss so n so…you…you’re a psychopath ? if you ever sit n chat with Myers…He isn’t like that here.He is engaging for no other visible reason than to chat in chat rooms about regular stuff.

 * I don’t think women consciously look for someone who is abusive and controlling. And if you read Myers answers to other questions you will notice that he admittedly treats others like garbage. He admits to lying, abusing, cheating and screwing with people just for kicks. If you find him charming and interesting then you might be “falling for his act.” 

* Remember, Meyers is a sociopath. However, he might be using “I’m an honest sociopath” as another form of manipulation to get what he wants. I believe Meyers is being honest in his answers but I need to question why a sociopath would want to expose his “tricks.”

 * I have read his posts,watched him engage with others.He has never been inappropriate,does not flirt with women,is married…and has manipulated not one person on site.He is honest…I would rather sit with him ..being up front..than people who are one thing in your face and whisper behind your back.Thats what you have to watch out for.~W~

* If you take the definition a bit beyond the scope of the DSM criteria and find an answer please post or PM me… I have found one of the quickest ways to determine if a man is a sociopath (in a more broad sense than DSM) is that I have dated them.

* I do know one factor… for a smart chick I can be very naive. My social skills are not congruent with what I have to offer a relationship… So… while I have a lot of good qualities my social skills keep me isolated. Many people with less than steller motives are able to hone in on me in a crowd very quickly. Someone with my qualities shouldn’t be as alone as I am… May as well have a flashing neon light over my head!

 * Here are a few tips for your dating agenda:

1. Don’t date anyone who is too sarcastic.
2. Don’t lend anyone money.
3. Don’t give out too much personal information too quickly.

 No, most women don’t consciously look for an abusive relationship… However… Many of the characteristics of a typical psychopath: charming, mysterious, callous (which is often seen as stoicism if the psychopath plays his or her cards right), a “loner”, financially successful (or at least claiming to be), fearless, and manipulative… These are all traits of how the “tall, dark, and handsome” man is portrayed in the media. Look at James Bond, for instance… Bond shows a lot of psychopathic traits, and those aspects of him are glorified. Needless to say, women fall head over heals for characters such as this. Nowadays, this character is the vampire, Edward, in all his sparkling glory… which I can’t understand to save my own life… I wouldn’t even dare peg Edward as a psychopath, but he does show a few traits, mainly charming and controlling… very, very controlling… And a stalker… Yet, women justify this behavior because he’s just “so dreamy”…
Psychopaths not only fit this role of the dark, mysterious, and charming loner, we will also craft this mask to meet the specific emotional desires of each person. And we don’t just pick out any poor sap who crosses our paths, either. Many psychopaths attest that, when they go out to find a suitable partner, attractiveness has nothing to do with it. Psychopaths will search for people who have low self-esteem and a poor support system (family, friends, etc.). Dr. Angela Book researched the psychopath’s ability to spot vulnerability in a victim. This notion was researched because of a remark made by Ted Bundy, who claimed he could “tell a victim by the tilt of her head as she walked” (which I thought was completely ridiculous and not based in science…) But, according to Dr. Book, the psychopathic subjects were able to pick out which of the volunteers had been a victim of a serious crime just by watching them walk (body language and so forth)… This study can be found in the documentary I, Psychopath and in the article “Psychopathic Traits and Perception of Victim Vulnerability” by Sarah Wheeler, Angela Book, and Kimberly Costello.

When women who are lonely and have low self-esteem find men who are charming, confident, and play on every emotional desire their partners have, in many cases, those women think they’ve found their soul mate. And when one finds ones soul-mate, all rational thought goes out the window…

There isn’t much havoc I can wreak over an internet forum; you needn’t worry. And I’m a psychopath. “Sociopath” is a term that isn’t recognized in mental health or forensic settings; “psychopath” is.

Also, I can lie and abuse and cheat, but I refrain most of the time. Well, at least from abusing and cheating… I try to limit my psychopathic tendencies, especially around those that I want to stick around…

And there are many reasons I come here…
I like to talk.
I especially like to talk about myself.
I like being recognized and appreciated for my knowledge in the subjects of psychopathy and antisocial personality disorder.
I don’t like all the frivolous notions and myths you people like to say about me and my kind.
I like that I’m able to reveal these aspects of my personality and talk about them openly without fear of repercussion.
That I’m “exposing my tricks” is a moot point. The few people that actually read and take heed to my advice most likely are never going to meet me, and, if they do, wouldn’t know who I was. Also, experts who have studied psychopathy for years have been deceived by psychopaths. I doubt any layman who reads over a few posts on an forum, regardless of how accurate or in-depth those posts may have been, could identify a psychopath should they come across one…

 * I appreciate your replies, I must admit I am now very curious. 

Is this something that there are degrees of or that is on some kind of spectrum?
And, if a psychopath is playing their cards right wouldn’t it be safe to assume that their partner would be “securly hooked” before they demonstraited the more controling or abusive aspects of their charactor?
Also, is it safe to assume that a psychopath would have to hve a significant IQ to be able to accomplish all of this?

 * I was totally sucked in by Mr. Crazy. I had no clue he was a psychopath until I started looking for answers on the internet & found that he fits it perfectly! My question is how does one live with someone like this in a peaceful manner? That’s all I desire, not a relationship, just peaceful co-existence.

My guess is “peaceful” and “psychopath” only have the letter “P” in common…nothing else. (I love this line!!)

 * All people are different and this includes those with Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Some with APD turn out to be hard core serial killers. Some turn out to be just nasty ppl who live a lonely life. When they die they aren’t missed. This disorder is often romanticized as Meyer’s puts:the dark handsome leading man who takes what he wants when he wants it.
However, the reality is much different. The literature indicates there is a certain brain function that doesn’t work in those that have this disorder. Which in essences means there is a type of “brain damage” indicated.

 Many psychopaths attest that, when they go out to find a suitable partner, attractiveness has nothing to do with it. Psychopaths will search for people who have low self-esteem and a poor support system (family, friends, etc.).

 This is interesting. So the attractiveness of the victim doesn’t have anything to do with selection? 

I’m not so sure that is the case for all psychopaths. Some find this a game- the better looking the female the better the score.

 * I dated someone who I think really would fit the DSM requirements. I was peaceful and he was the psychopath. 

We made it three years before he crossed my line. Perhaps it was because he was working very hard to have a relationship with me dispite himself.
I think part of why it worked for as long as it did (and Myer please feel free to add your view) was that I didn’t react to him, we interacted. I refused to play games or get sucked in. If he went into drama, thrill seeking or being the hero I would just sit and let it pass. Even at my weakest moments I refused to let go of “me” which I think he did not expect and saw as a challenge. I know the thing he said to me most was that I was “a lot stronger than I appeared”.
Our last date was his birthday. I brought him to his favorite place to eat and then we went for an evening walk in the park. We sat on a bench, under the stars in front of a beautiful fountian. Music from a nearby concert could be heard in the background. Yep… a fairy tale sort of night. I curled up next to him and gently laid my head in his lap. As he gently stroked my long hair he very “romantically” (and his tone of voice was seriously romantic…) said that he was just thinking… It would be so easy to snap my neck and he could be out of the country before my body was found and anyone went looking for him. I agreed that his statement was true, waited a moment, said I was cold and he drove me home, politely greeted my dad (who was not supposed to be there), kissed me and left. 
At that point I became too worried that he was losing ground with his “inner struggles” and my luck sucks… So I left. And by left I mean dropped off the face of the earth left rather than just stopped returning calls.

 * Thank you for sharing this story. It is terrible that you had to experience such a night. However, you have made a perfect case for the need to stay away from anyone who displays Antisocial tendencies. As you sat on the bench with visions of romance your boyfriend had visions of chainsaws. Someone with APD cannot love you – it isn’t in their nature.

Actually, very few psychopaths are serial killers. And most psychopaths are charismatic thrill seekers who do take what they want when they want (or try to); that isn’t romanticized. That’s not to say all of them are secret agents and look like James Bond, however…
And I prefer to see the difference in brain structure as an evolutionary step as opposed to “damage”… (note the psychopath considers himself evolved not damaged.)

I agree that the relationship lasted because you didn’t give into his drama and manipulation. I was actually going to add that in a response to one of your posts… In order to avoid being targeted by a psychopath, it’s best to convince said psychopath that you’re neither a suitable target nor a threat. Of course, they’re more likely to ignore you than ask you out if you do this…

If you really wanted to maintain a healthy relationship with a psychopath, it’s more up to them than you. That is, if they have enough desire and motivation to suppress their psychopathic tendencies for the sake of the relationship, which is very difficult to maintain over long periods of time, it might work. In which case, it is somewhat possible. And, by “somewhat”, I mean it can never be as healthy as a relationship with a non-psychopath, considering the spouses emotional and social needs and the psychopath’s inability to truly fulfill those needs. If you choose this, I advise seeing a therapist regularly, learning manipulation and how to counter it, having a strong support system (family, friends, etc.) that you see regularly, and learning how to control your own reactions. Maybe I’m a hypocrite considering my marital status, but I wouldn’t advise trying.

 and i agree with everyone – charm, and the ability to sell themselves to you – or at least the current version – they give you what you need and it fills their ego to have you on a string ….until the string tightens and you realise its not a bow for your hair but a leash he’s attaching to you.

* I have had one place his hands on my neck and say he could kill me – i to played along and cooly and calmly replied that sure he could – but logistically where we were was not a good place – he agreed…

I had to interact more wiht him because he was married to my sister – and he did for a few more times when the leash was not working on my sister try the fear approach – it was as if he was going through a list … hmmm charm – tick – ok thats out now
lies galore – too many to keep track of…..
fear – tick – > leading to dependance…..

but ultimately leading to his defeat…so far…….

his family was his posession that was all – his front to the world – of no value other than that.

 They sort of went off topic here and someone mentioned Dexter being a psychopath and I found the reply from the psychopath interesting and seeing as Dexter is a fictional character I am assuming the writers of the show think they are making Dexter act like a real psychopath but because they don’t know any psychopaths Dexter is not an accurate portrayal.
 
dexter

Why Dexter is not a psychopath

Where do I start? …

The thing that bothers me most about Dexter is that he follows rules very strictly. Given, I have my own rules that I do follow. But to meet an end, I’ll break any rule, even my own. Dexter also doesn’t have the obsessive drive to attain a goal that all psychopaths portray. Michael C. Hall tries to show it in some episodes, but I don’t really see it. And, as much as he’ll try to deny it, Dexter does feel guilt, as seen when he mistakenly kills an innocent man. A real psychopath wouldn’t give a rat’s arse, as long as he didn’t get caught. ( and I think this is where victims often get confused. The psychopath has no problem doing things he knows will hurt you or others, the ONLY time he shows remorse is when he is caught. That is not remorse. That is sorry you got caught because they never want to be viewed as the bad guy.Plus he prides himself on being so cunning and a masterful manipulator and gets strokes from pulling one over on you. To get caught means he screwed up, failed…. and that will never do in his mind. He must win you back in order to do it again, better the next time. Just to prove he is indeed superior and in control.) Some of his social interactions were painful to even watch… Not exactly the smooth talker found in the vast majority of psychopaths.

Also… He’s much too melancholy, especially when he describes his “Dark Passenger”. He’s melodramatic and “whiney” in some parts. He also names his predatory nature the “Dark Passenger”, which is downright peculiar. He doesn’t like sex (at least in the first season)… Furthermore, he doesn’t like sex because he’s afraid his partner is going to see his lack of emotion during sex. I don’t know why he can’t fake emotion during intercourse in the first place. (I found this statement very telling!! why doesn’t he just fake it. Exactly! because that is what psychopaths do). I also can’t understand why he’d care. (Again, exactly!) He claims not to understand flirting. He seemed very conscientious as a child and even a teenager. His sense of humor is… well… sad…

Those are but a few complaints…

Then I visited a Huffington Post interview where they discuss why we love serial killers, and after all most serial killers are psychopaths. Here is the link to the interview why we love serial killers . Please note that the doctor being interviewed emphasises several times that it is about control and not sex or love.

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31 Replies to “Why Are Women Attracted To Psychopaths?”

  1. We are not attracted to psychopaths. Psychopaths are attracted to us. We allow them to con us because we fear being rude and coming out and telling them what we really think of them sooner. I never thought my sociopath was a good person. Never. I saw through his charm and superficial demeanor and read it as his immaturity not as the evil that it is. We are attracted to things that appear broken because we wish to fix and nurture those things. Psychopaths aren’t broken; they just present themselves as broken. They are perfect just as they are and no one should feel tempted to reach out and help them. They do not need help. They need to die sooner and stop procreating.

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    1. Paula, I guess the title of the post was deceiving; I posted it to show the judging attitude of people, that women like to be mistreated or why don’t they leave and then the comments of other people describing how evil they actually are.
      I WAS attracted to a psychopath, very attracted to him, to the man he projected himself to be. I thought I was the luckiest woman in the world to have met such a wonderful man, romantic, generous, honest as the day is long, sweet, able to talk about his feelings, never got angry, thought my son was great, he was supportive, and he couldn’t believe his good fortune to have met me. It was a regular love fest! Plus, I had g/f’s who had told me I was too picky and didn’t give the good guys enough of a chance. I used to date a guy once or twice and if he was too clingy I dumped him. My friends had told me for years that I was too independent and I should let a guy spoil me. I had seen them meet guys and be treated wonderfully and two of my best friends are like 25-30 years with their guys and totally happy and he has not changed from when they met. I really did not have any indication he was who he was for almost a year.
      I didn’t think I had to fix him, I have never “fixed” men, I have never tried to change men. I never thought “he would be perfect if only he didn’t do this or that” I have always thought it was crazy of women to try to change a man. What you see is what you get, if you don’t like it then don’t marry it because it won’t get better.
      I know women who have started dating a guy and want him to quit smoking, or stop going to the strippers, or stop hanging out with his friends, or dress different. That was not me.
      After his true colours showed, about a year into the relationship; and even then he was very tricky with sabotaging my vehicle and stuff, I didn’t pick up on a lot of it for a very long time and by that time he had managed to make me dependent on him and then I stayed for many reasons, some times it was money; I thought I would wait until I had saved enough for rent etc, other times it was pride, (not wanting to admit I made a mistake), other times it was pity, ( i felt sorry for him), other times it was because he begged me back and promised he had changed. The longer I was with him the more he ate away at my self confidence and I became codependent on him and not myself any more.
      James didn’t present himself as broken either, he came across as a well adjusted guy, with several great professions to choose from, he had money, he was intelligent and so even tempered and we were able to discuss everything and anything calmly and rationally. He was not afraid to show his sensitive side. He was recovering from a motorcycle accident, had recently moved to the area to get to know his biological mother; which were probably the only things he told me that were true and I had given a child up for adoption so of course was very intrigued that he had met his biological mother and they got along great AND I had been raised on motorcycles and my first husband almost died in a bike accident and spent the first year of my son’s life in the hospital. So two things that “hooked” me, but they were the truth strange enough, he probably couldn’t believe his good fortune to not even have to come up with bull shit stories to hook me in.
      I agree they need to die sooner, I am still pissed that he said he was going to die in 6 months. We had a deal, I would come back and he would die in 6 months.

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      1. It wasn’t a need to fix anything measurable or material like his clothes or his behavior. It was more about “fixing” or rather influencing his attitude. He presented as if he had this “doom and gloom” attitude about life and that every time he thought he had met “the one”, something happened and he lost his passion for “the one”. Talk about a red flag I was blinded to! So it wasn’t about fixing him in the normal sense or understanding of co-dependency. I wanted this guy to learn that life wasn’t always about getting your own way every time and that “the one” is just as flawed and with issues as others who aren’t “the one”. But I was fooled. He wasn’t/isn’t imterested in finding “the one” that he can grow old with! He’s interested in getting as much instant gratification as possible from whomever is willing to give him exactly what he wants while putting her needs to the sides. There are some women more willing to do this than others and for longer periods of time than others. Many will claim that those who hang around longer is because they are less secure or more subservient or lack independence. I disagree. I think those who stay longer stay because these psychopaths make it financially impossible to leave them. The financial abuse is the biggest reason so many don’t choose to leave sooner because dealing with these shitty people seems easier than losing everything. We fail ourselves when we think this way because all material possessions are replaceable eventually. The longer we stay, the more of our soul we lose, which is much, much harder to rebuild and reconcile.

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        1. Paula… our soul. You’re right. The investment is more of our souls than one of finances. And THAT is really hard to rebuild, altho that is exactly where I’m at right now. Sigh… dealing with depression that wont leave, trying to find my maternal instinct again. He really did some damage to me… he found my weaknesses and bore his way into my life. I don’t want to stay a victim, and I was willing to let him do that. I’m looking at myself now and finding those weaknesses; I’m healing and growing so it doesn’t happen again, so that I can feel good again.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. And you won’t recognize yourself, Andrea, once you dissect those weaknesses, accept them, and move forward despite them. None of us are God and none of us are perfect all the time or even close to being perfect ever. The narc/sociopath/psychopath tried convincing us perfection was attainable and we were just too inadequate and stupid to reach perfection. Hogwash!If perfect means being like them, I’d rather be flawed. 🙂

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            1. I’m ashamed to admit it — and actually I wont here on a public site — but I’ll hint to the fact that one major damage was the destruction of my maternal instinct. He was not the father of my child, however, in the end he did something to me which he thought WOULD possibly aide my ex-husband in gaining power to take my child away. Funny tho, my ex-husband and I have never been closer. He and I became closer friends thru all this (we are NOT getting back together… we haven’t and wont cross that line. My ex is happy with a good woman right now who is a wonderful step-mom type for our son, and I have no desire to have my ex backK). It’s ironic that the man who supported me thru my divorce (My N was my support) is also the man who hurt me more than my ex (didn’t think that was possible) and the one who tried to take me down and take my child away from me. Thank goodness I never got pregnant from him and we did not always use protection.

              Still, my desire to be a mother waned. How can THAT happen? It’s strange. If you were to read my blog you’d see YEARS of posts about how much I love being a mom. Wow. I’m shocked.

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              1. Andrea, I understand. I was married and with a small child when my sociopath seduced me out of the marriage and into his lair as I call it today. He tried pitting me against my estranged husband and I fought against it because he was a good man and the father of my son. The sociopath even called the police on me one night that I was alone in my apartment with my son and refused to open the door for him. He told the police I was inside drunk and passed out with my son. Once the police explained there was nothing that could be done and that they couldn’t knock down the door, the sociopath called my estranged husband!! I let my estranged husband in and the first thing he said to me was, “Wow, Paula. You picked a good one. Ruben is crazy. he called the police on you. What kind of person does that?” I was so distraught and confused that I thought it was because Ruben the socipath was just desperate not to lose me. Th etruth is, he wanted me to lose my son to my estarnged father so he didn’t have to be burdened with sharing my attention and time. Sick, sick, sick. Today, I AM back with my estranged husband. We never divorced. We actually became closer, too, during the separation and the entire aftermath. We learned to co-parent better (thanks to the classes out county required us to take while going through the divorce process). So talk about irony!! I’m sure my ex takes credit for keeping our family together. 🙂

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        2. Paula, and Andrea, I agree totally. Having never been in an abusive relationship I had no idea how much a person can lose. It took a lot of years for that to sink in for me. Even when I went back the last time I thought “what have I got to lose” I felt I was capable of recouping any financial loss and I thought I had him figured out. But even though I had been with him 8 years already, I had only seen the tip of the iceberg as far as the depths he would go to destroy someone.
          I had this belief that I was basically invincible I guess, I really believed I was strong enough to recover from anything. I guess it surprised him because I always got back on my feet pretty quickly. I had no doubt in my capability to bounce back and get back on my feet. It was the last time that we got back together that he put his best effort into destroying me and it was almost indescribably evil and cruel. I can look back now and see how he methodically stripped me of everything and hard he worked at destroying the one thing I thought no one could ever take from me and that was my belief in myself. I still find it hard to describe accurately. I lost my will to live, had never been as hopeless nor felt as helpless in my life.

          I thought I was so smart I knew how to “handle” him, anticipate his moods and actions which is such a naive and self destructive attitude. No one can beat a psychopath at his own game because a normal person can not ever go to the depths of evil that an N/P goes. I used to believe that honesty and goodness will prevail, but I have learned that is not the case. I always taught my son that as long as a person is honest and lives in truth things will work out for the best. But when you are dealing with someone who comes from a place of deception without a conscience, bad things do happen to good people. It shattered me to come to that realization and it has left me with a very deep fear. No matter how happy I am with my life now and feel healed and able to go on and pursue my goals and enjoy my life with my son and granddaughter and I feel strong again and like myself better than I ever have. I have a much greater appreciation and acceptance of the person I am. I have experienced true evil and that changes a person, you never get that innocense back.

          Just witnessing that kind of evil and being subjected to their cruelty can destroy a person’s faith in…God, a fair and just world, family, and worse of all, faith in yourself.

          Andrea, you can heal your soul, it takes time and self reflection and cutting the evil from your life totally. It takes time, but the N has such a huge black cloud of negativity that hangs over everything, it takes a long time for it to clear. It is very hard to not feel like you are waiting for the other shoe to drop because when you are with him, he found a way to tarnish everything good in your life. He hated to see you happy so he found a way to destroy anything important to you. Every area, even the good times you had with him would be tarnished by him picking a fight later or him criticizing something you said, or what you wore. Birthdays you stopped expecting a gift and just prayed you would get through the day without a fight or Christmas was spent just trying to get through the day without him ruining it some how.

          It takes a long time for that feeling of impending doom to leave but the longer he is out of your life the more the sunshine gets through and you start to have joyful experiences and nothing bad happens. I still find myself, at the end of a particularly good day; thinking wow……..what a great day, and no one tried to destroy it. I came home and my stomach wasn’t in knots anticipating what I would find when I walked in the door. It makes a person so grateful for the simple blessing in life.

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    2. Maybe, but I got to say, I’m attracted to them. And whether I can say if he’s one or not, and easily discover their lies, since charm doesn’t blinds me. like to play the game and eventually if it ends up boring me just leave.

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    3. Maybe, but I got to say, I’m attracted to them. And whether I can say if he’s one or not, and easily discover their lies, since charm doesn’t blinds me. I like to play the game until it bores me.

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  2. Hi Carrie. Enjoying your blog as usual.

    Here’s a link to some humor that might be worth a future post. I had a few good laughs and I think women recovering from a Narcissist might find these funny, even though it’s not specifically about narcissists but can remind us of their lack of logic…LOL

    http://ifunny.co/fun/WbmCX6nJ2

    ________________________________

    Liked by 1 person

    1. GemGirl, definitely worth its own post. Hahaha I laughed out loud! I loved some of the responses from the witnesses, I can well imagine what was going through their heads.
      Thanks for the laughs, going to post it right now.

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  3. I just found your site and lisa e scott’s too. (I think I like yours better tho…) and I also just discovered Myers in another forum too! Thank you for sharing this. THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU DO… it’s really helping me. Altho I am in the discovery stage. I just found all this out. I never knew there was a name for it. Your 3 stages of a N Relaionship post came up on a google search and it explains my relationship to a tee… and yet I still have my doubts. So so sad to think he possibly never loved me and was cogniscent of what he was doing the whole time. It sickens me and I’m hurt and hoping to get better. Depression is killing me. All these years of my life and I am finally figuring it out. I fell hard. No wonder this is harder than my divorce. Go ahead, read my blog (click on my name I think)… I don’t give too many details but over the last two months I’ve divulged my struggles. Someone was kind enough to tell me I got myself a Narc and sent me to Lisa’s forum.

    I’m so glad you’re here. I’m afraid I’ll never get over this. Such a dark, scary place to be in!

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    1. Andrea, welcome, I am glad you have found some answers here. I will pop over and check out your site later for sure.
      It is very hard when you finally figure out what they are. On one hand it is a relief because you finally have answers and you know it isn’t your fault but then on the other hand you have to accept the whole relationship was a lie, he was a lie, the man you met did not exist.
      It is overwhelming, and the victim tends to relive the whole relationship now with this new knowledge, relive past hurts and things that didn’t make sense now do. it is a very painful process but necessary for healing.
      The most important part of healing is to remain NO CONTACT, it is crucial! you don’t say how long you have been apart from him but they almost always make a curtain call and try to get you back. They will admit to everything, apologize for everything they ever did wrong and profess their love, they will cry real tears and you think they are healed and the two of you will ride off into the sunset and live happily ever after.
      It is all a lie and the abuse will be worse than ever.
      The best thing you can do right now is gain as much knowledge of them as you can so you are prepared for the mind games they play. Lisa has many good articles on the curtain call and no contact.
      By no contact I mean no checking his FB, no talking to friends to find out what he is doing, no reading his text messages, because he will do everything within his power to continue to hurt you and control you. There is no being friends with them.
      There is light at the end of the tunnel, it may be dim right now but I promise you that if you remain no contact, and work on your recovery, keep your thoughts on you and your future it will be a lot quicker recovery. Any contact whatsoever with him will set you back every time.
      Good luck and we are all here if you need to talk. We have all been there, you are not alone in this.
      Hugs
      Carrie

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Carrie, I’m interested in learning more about no contact and will do reading on it. He wont contact me AT ALL and in fact he is so happy with his new lover that there is no reason to contact me. He has made it clear, legally, he wants nothing to do with me. He has thrown out my things. He has told me in no uncertain terms, both face to face and thru legal avenues that he doesn’t want anything to do with me ever again. I feel devastated by this.

        I saved all his gifts, texts, emails, and photos. I haven’t thrown them out yet. I just can’t yet!

        I haven’t re-read them or looked at them in a while.

        We broke up on July 15th; we talked and saw each other for 10 days. He texted me every day. On July 25th, my 50th birthday he stopped cold turkey. I tried to contact him and was met with rage and rejection. Then I found out about the girl he was befriending and seeing for 2 months. He is in the over-value stage with her per your article. They started seeing each other romantically at that time.

        I tried to see him during that time and then around September 3, 2014 I stopped. I found out about a dark side to him during this time, a very very hardcore sexual thing he was into. I had no idea about it while we were dating. I don’t know if he partook in that activity while we were dating or not. He always said he was not a cheater. It was after I confronted him with this information that he took action which he thought would arm my ex-husband with ammunition to take our child away. This backfired on him.

        I ran into him twice since then. The first time I ran into him at the hardware store I almost committed suicide that day. It was pure hell and I felt like I was IN HELL that day. He shook his head as if I had followed him there; wouldn’t acknowledge me and made jokes with the guys at the store as if I didn’t matter. I was shaking and anxiety was filling my whole body. It was HELL for me. I cried so hard when I got to my car and thought I would never recover from that moment. I cried 24 hours straight after that.

        I haven’t looked at a photo of him or read any of this OLD texts in about 2-3 weeks.

        This is all raw and very new for me. I only discovered he is (maybe?) an N just two weeks ago.

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        1. Tifa, I had never been the type of woman to want to save or change any man but when he changed so drastically and suddenly I actually thought he might have a brain tumor to be having a breakdown or something. it was so drastic and sudden I never thought it was he truly was. I believed I had seen the true man and now something had happened to change him and I was going to help him change back.
          At the time he had been fired (I had no idea he got fired from every job he had because when I met him he was in school retraining after a bad motorcycle accident, so we knew each other almost a year before he got a job), we had just heard his dad had inoperable cancer, my son and brother both had major problems so I was worried about them and I thought it was circumstances. Time goes by so fast and before you know it another year has past and you realize things have only gotten worse.
          I think one of the biggest mistakes the victim of a N make is they keep assigning the N emotions a normal person would feel. Like, “He feels really bad but has a hard time admitting it.” “he feels so guilty that’s why he isn’t talking to me” , “He didn’t apologize but he said he loves me and we had sex so he must be sorry.”
          I remember after years of JC having personal ads on numerous dating sites on the net and me talking to him about it to the point of sounding like a broken record, thinking sooner or later I would explain it in a way he would understand why I was hurt; I finally convinced myself that it didn’t mean anything to him. He loved me, he wouldn’t actually DO anything with these women. He was talking to Russian brides, I knew he wasn’t going to send for a Russian Bride. So one day while he was on the computer I went to him and I told him that I had realized that he didn’t have any intention of dating these women and what he was doing was proving to himself that he still could get a woman if he wanted to and it wasn’t anything against me.
          He said, “Something like that.”
          So many times the N just sits back and lets the victim lie to themselves, they don’t even have to work that hard at deceiving the victim, we are so good at denial they just start the ball rolling and we take care of the rest.
          That is why the N always turns the table on the victim by saying they are paranoid and causing drama and conflict. They aren’t denying seeing someone else, they are just giving the victim a lie they can use to deceive themselves. Most victims are more than willing to take the blame, as long as they think there is something they can do to fix things they will stay and keep trying.
          I know in my case I didn’t leave until I was sure I had exhausted every single thing I could do to fix things or make him happy and when I realized there was nothing I had not tried or compromised on is when I left for good.

          Like

        2. Andrea, I don’t know what happened, my replies have gotten out of order but any way this is to you.
          A couple of things you should know, narcs almost always have some heavy duty sexual kinks. many of them go either way. I actually think their egos are so huge they want men and women to fall madly in love with them. They are almost asexual, God like in their own mind.
          But in actual fact don’t really like sex that much, maybe because it is a natural urge and they have to be in control at all times. My ex would refuse to come to bed, he would fall asleep standing up because he wouldn’t come to bed, but whenever he did, he would get a hard on and I think he hated not being able to control it. The last couple of years he only undid his fly and didn’t even take his clothes off for sex, all very clinical, no love. The first 7 years it was the one time I felt close to him, I thought we would always have that! When I met him he could have 3-4 orgasms in a night. I could not believe he would ever lose interest in sex. But I discovered things about him also that made me want to puke.

          The no contact I covered a bit in a previous comment but what it means is, preferably you change your phone number so he can’t contact you or text you. You block him or change your email so he can’t get through to you. If you can move out of the area, all the better!! You tell all your mutual friends that under no circumstances (unless they believe your life is in danger) do you want to hear what he is doing, whether he is happy, sad, homeless or living the high life. Nothing. Some people love to be the bearer of bad news or tell you how happy he is, why?? I don’t understand a friend doing that. If these friends insist on telling you stuff about him anyway then dump them. They aren’t a true friend.
          I had a very close relationship with my ex’s step dad, I owed him money he lent me to leave my ex. He and I kept in touch and he told me about the ex’s new g/f and how she seemed to have control of my ex and maybe this was going to be the woman to change my ex. I told him I was still in a lot of pain and didn’t want to talk about my ex, I couldn’t handle it.
          He never mentioned his name again and to this day he calls me every 6 months to see how I am doing. There are other things to talk about.
          I have been with my ex’s sister and been dying to ask her stuff but I know it does me no good.
          It does you no good to hear what he is doing, it is going to hurt, don’t torture yourself.
          I know you want to see him miserable, the next woman to get the same treatment as you but you will not see that. You will only see the happy couple, even if things are horrible behind closed doors they will be the perfect couple out in public. He wants everyone,including you to think it was your fault and what better way to do that than be so F’ing happy with the new woman? And she is going to be the beaming ray of sunshine that makes him so happy. Right now she is thinking she is so much better than any of his exs and she is riding high on being so special and her special love being the best he has ever known.
          I’ve been there, he has told her that he thought he was in love before but that was before he met her. Her love has saved him, he can be himself with her, he can’t get enough of her, she is different than any other woman he has ever been with. He doesn’t have to lie to her, she is so calm and rational not like his psycho exs.
          You don’t need a front seat to this charade. The best way to deal with it all is to pretend you don’t care. It will piss him off, not that you are doing it as revenge because it is the best thing for you but to contact him is only feeding his ego. He is rejecting you because, (mark my words here, I would be willing to bet money if i had any) down the road he is going to curtain call you and he is expecting you are going to be so relieved that he has contacted you that you will fall into his arms and do anything he wants.
          Right now he is putting all his energy into hooking the new woman and he really is totally focussed on her, not seeing anyone else, because he wants to hook her as fast as possible, so he can let his mask drop. it is hard work for him to win over a new victim, he doesn’t want it to drag on too long.
          I had not heard from my ex in almost a year when he popped into my life out of nowhere, full of apologies and tears, totally screwed up my head. I went into facebook to see what he was up to and found out he had gotten engaged 8 days prior.
          He had hooked her good so now he was able to come back and screw with my head. He showed up where I worked because I had blocked him everywhere.
          Any little crack you give him to squeeze through he will and he will hurt you every opportunity he gets. Believe me!!
          No contact is hard, it is an addiction and you are going cold turkey but it is the only way to truly break free, he will pull you back in. He is toxic and your life will not get better until you cut the toxins out of your life.
          Oh and it makes perfect sense that he slandered you after you made your discovery. He was doing damage control, destroy your reputation, get you concerned about keeping your child and off what he was doing. Put the fear of God in you so you won’t reveal his secret.
          The two things an N hates it is someone who opposes them or someone who exposes them.
          they become the most dangerous when they feel they may be exposed. Their whole life is made up of precariously balanced lies, expose one lie and their whole world could crash down on them, they MUST find a way of shutting you up if you have the power to reveal them for who they are.
          Listen to me, do not meet him any where alone, do not let him in the house if he shows up at the door. if you have dirt on him, and he thinks you may out him, you are in danger./
          Hope that helps!
          Hugs

          Like

        3. Andrea, the lost of your desire to have a child or losing your maternal instincts is not that uncommon. We get so emotionally drained we go numb, we feel dead emotions wise in many areas. We feel we have lost our capability to love and care about anyone. It is our mind shutting down in self preservation. We can’t give any more, we cant take any more. As you heal your feelings will come back slowly.
          You have been to hell and back, it takes its toll on a person give yourself time, you will never be the person you were but you will go back to being a loving caring person with desires and compassion and a need to love and nurture. so many victims say they feel like a shell of who they used to be. I remember feeling like I would never care deeply about anything after breaking up with my ex.
          It does come back
          Hugs

          Like

  4. Paula I share exactly the same if not similar thoughts to what you’ve written.
    The “charm” that had initially permeated my being when meeting the N I can honestly say probably wore off after about 3 months. I started to see and feel more of a glimpse of the act he was portraying to me in his behaviour/actions. And actually, I am shamed to admit with his words also. There were moments when he truly laid out to me the arsehole he truly was/is.. With no games or mind fucks such as nasty accusations then telling me he loved me in the next breath..no.. That fun stuff came later! But that he actually appeared to have grown bored with me very quickly.. Suspect a new supply could have surfaced then failed, hence why he stayed with me for 7 more months. But it’s my staying after the initial “gut feeling” that I realise speaks volumes. And no, I do not and never will blame myself again for not going with my gut back then. I guess I thought I could fix him. To nurture the aspects to him that I thought signalled vulnerability, when in fact I was feeding my own vulnerable nature; my self-affirmation perhaps by wishing to please people and make them happy. Strange in a way also as I don’t think much of myself physically, and viewed him as out of my league.. Yet I chose not to accept my own self loathing thoughts and persevered with what I thought I could have with him.
    I think of it as bizarre now as you hear of people sometimes trying to change aspects to their partner, and I always figured I’d never be that sort of person. I still don’t fully think that I am. Certainly not with conscious intent. But maybe it was more that desire to nurture.. To try and give him as much as I could give so he’d still want me.. still not a healthy approach to dating someone and also if they’re giving you fluff all back. But I do admit to striking that balance as being a difficulty for me. Again that need to please others over my own needs.
    I did actually find an article, possibly even this one Carrie shared, with regards to the perspective and words from an N sharing insight into their realm of crazy. But while somewhat interesting, I’d rather learn a new language, recipe etc than the drone of words coming out of an N’s gob haha! 😉 I’d only listen and converse with an N if they asked me if I thought of them as scum, to which I’d gleefully scream “YES!!” 😉 The fruit loops may even enjoy that.. But then at least in that incidence I would too! 😀

    With love and hugs from across the puddle (that is beginning to solidify as getting colder here in blighty!) x x x x

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    1. Tifa, I had never been the type of woman to want to save or change any man but when he changed so drastically and suddenly I actually thought he might have a brain tumor to be having a breakdown or something. it was so drastic and sudden I never thought it was he truly was. I believed I had seen the true man and now something had happened to change him and I was going to help him change back.
      At the time he had been fired (I had no idea he got fired from every job he had because when I met him he was in school retraining after a bad motorcycle accident, so we knew each other almost a year before he got a job), we had just heard his dad had inoperable cancer, my son and brother both had major problems so I was worried about them and I thought it was circumstances. Time goes by so fast and before you know it another year has past and you realize things have only gotten worse.
      I think one of the biggest mistakes the victim of a N make is they keep assigning the N emotions a normal person would feel. Like, “He feels really bad but has a hard time admitting it.” “he feels so guilty that’s why he isn’t talking to me” , “He didn’t apologize but he said he loves me and we had sex so he must be sorry.”
      I remember after years of JC having personal ads on numerous dating sites on the net and me talking to him about it to the point of sounding like a broken record, thinking sooner or later I would explain it in a way he would understand why I was hurt; I finally convinced myself that it didn’t mean anything to him. He loved me, he wouldn’t actually DO anything with these women. He was talking to Russian brides, I knew he wasn’t going to send for a Russian Bride. So one day while he was on the computer I went to him and I told him that I had realized that he didn’t have any intention of dating these women and what he was doing was proving to himself that he still could get a woman if he wanted to and it wasn’t anything against me.
      He said, “Something like that.”
      So many times the N just sits back and lets the victim lie to themselves, they don’t even have to work that hard at deceiving the victim, we are so good at denial they just start the ball rolling and we take care of the rest.
      That is why the N always turns the table on the victim by saying they are paranoid and causing drama and conflict. They aren’t denying seeing someone else, they are just giving the victim a lie they can use to deceive themselves. Most victims are more than willing to take the blame, as long as they think there is something they can do to fix things they will stay and keep trying.
      I know in my case I didn’t leave until I was sure I had exhausted every single thing I could do to fix things or make him happy and when I realized there was nothing I had not tried or compromised on is when I left for good.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. Paula and Tifa,

    Yes, mine too… he appeared to be broken. He told me in our first few dates he had bipolar depression and that I would leave him b/c of it just as the last two women left him.

    When you wrote: We are attracted to things that appear broken because we wish to fix and nurture those things. Psychopaths aren’t broken; they just present themselves as broken.

    I could relate. The N I dated was not broken. Not one bit. He said that to make me feel sorry for him. “I’m not those other women!” I’d exclaim to him. Translate: I wont leave you. Translate: Ha! Got her! Now she’s not going to leave me! I’ll say this one or two more times and she will be hooked! YAY!

    And Carrie, you wrote (in your post to the other woman) that he’ll hold you all night long. Sex was the most incredible ever. OH. MY. GOD. I could not understand why he held me all night. That’s part of it too? And the sex? Best best best ever. He’d tell me that. Best. Sex. Ever. he used to say. I’m sure he’s saying the same thing to her, his new source. It just makes me sick. I had a friend who dated my N before me. She got out before he discarded her, before he devalued her. Good for her. I never asked her about him. After he and I broke up (he dumped me) I found out he said the same things to her as he said to me. He’d make me feel so sexy that I’d do all the things he’d want me to do. OH MY. Makes me sick how I was used.

    And when I was discarded I was DESTROYED. He tried to ruin my reputation. I could not understand why. There are many people out there who think poorly of me. Court. He threatened to ruin me so that my ex-husband (not a N) would get custody of my child. What man does that? I’m a normal good woman. Looking at me you’d never know what happened behind closed door.

    This is so sad it makes me sick. Thank God this man never had children. Ugh.

    Like

    1. Andrea, it is so unfair that the victim is barely hanging on by a thin thread, struggling to get their lives back together and then the N sets about destroying their reputation and any friendship or support system they have left. it is mind boggling the depths they will go and the lies they will tell, get the women fired, I have heard of women having their children taken away, being arrested on trumped up charges, getting put in mental institutions.
      They are so sick, it is all about winning. If they leave you and you go on to have anything in your life, any happiness, any possessions they view it as they lost because they didn’t deplete you. Then they will come back to take what they left behind.
      When they are done with you, you are garbage to them. It is like a vulture picking the carcass clean and he sees other vultures waiting for him to finish so they can get some. Even if he isn’t hungry any more he will make sure he gets every morsel off those bones. If he leaves and the other vultures find something on the bones the first vulture thinks he didn’t do a good enough job, he failed.
      The victim of an N is supposed to curl up in a corner and grieve the loss of the N for the rest of their lives, waiting for him to honor her with his presence whenever he chooses.
      My ex N had one ex who basically did that, and drank herself to death over about 15 years. He used to call her regularly and really got off on the fact that she never got involved with another man and spent the rest of her life trying to figure out what he was doing and calling all his g/f’s to warn them. He called her from my house phone knowing full well she would call me to warn me about him. But when she did she was so drunk I hung up on her and even though by this time I had figured out what he was like, her being so drunk validated what he had told me about her and I actually felt sorry for him because she was so vicious in her hatred of him yet I knew she would take him back in a heart beat. He used her.

      When she finally died he was crying to me about it and then got this maniacal look on his face and said, “She sure hated you.”
      He said that she hated it that we were so happy. I said “we were? you could have fooled me.”
      He said well yeah, we were together over 10 years.
      Then it clicked, I knew if I allowed him he would do the same to me, he would rub my nose in how happy he was with the new woman and I told myself I would never end up like that, a bitter drunk who never gets on with her life. He loved to think he destroyed her.
      The thing is, many victims end up validating the N’s claims they are unstable because they react to the N’s accusations and lies, any acts of revenge on the victims part, or even attempts at defending themselves by telling people the things he did, just makes them sound and appear crazy and vengeful.
      We are normal and we don’t want to talk bad about someone, we haven’t been out trying to win people over to our side. We were in love and we didn’t want to talk badly about the man we loved and we didn;t want to admit to anyone the way things really were. So then when the N starts to slander us, people believe him and we just sound bitter when we try to defend ourselves. If it was so bad why did we stay? if it was so bad why are we so upset? He is going off and falling in love with the “love of his life” immediately so to a bystander it makes sense, he must be telling the truth.

      Like

  6. Most of the women themselves these days are complete psychopaths and sociopaths as well since they’re very dangerous too.

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