Is He A Narcissist Or Is It Me?

I received the following email the other day and had to post it and my reply. I may have been a little harsh in my response, tell me what you think.

hi – i love your blog.. it really helps… my ex bf and i broke up 5 months ago and i havent talked to him since the break up.. he hasn’t reached out.. i think he was cheating on me in the end with this new girl. i miss him a lot and that upsets me because it wasnt a real person. i wish hed call and say sorry, i wish this was just a bad dream..

This is my story with my ex..(well the short version) we met at a show 5 years ago (well a little over 5 years now) and we texted for a full month before we met – anytime we tried to meet he would make excuses.. i got tired of it so the 3rd time he did that i decided to screw it and went out with my guy friends.. the min he saw I was doing that he asked me to come over.. and we started dating .. he would text me and call me all day at work.. the first few months i guess the first 6 or maybe more..there were some weird things but really things were great like really amazing.. and then all of a sudden it flipped it was like he would suddenly get really angry and then really sweet.. and be depressed all the time.

After the first year I found out he was 20K in debt from pot. (i found out with his parents) they paid it off. He didn’t have a job at this time.. he appreciated I understood.. His parents had begged me to stay with him .. and I understood he just had a rough year.. he did the same thing the next year.. with still no job though.. and I found out from his parents he was in debt again – he couldn’t even tell me..his parents smoke pot.. so the fact that he lied to them it was shocking.. I’m very against pot.. and he blamed that he had to lie to me because of my beliefs towards it .. both times.. and so on and on time went.. he kept saying he was going to go to grad school because he couldn’t get a job (hes my age.. I’m 29 now) he had never really had a job and it went on and on.. there would always be a double standard with everything, I either called too much or too little.. no matter what I did there would be fault.. if I would push him it would irritate him.. i just couldn’t win.. he would lie and lie and lie and make up excuses about his career.. it went on and on .. my friends never liked him and my parents refused to meet him so he would make me feel so bad about something that wasn’t my fault. (I’m Indian he’s not – but they didn’t like him because he didn’t have his career together) and he would say mean things at times.. not that i sucked or any of those kind of statements.. just when we would be having a fight really really harsh things…

He would always say my standards are too high, nothing satisfies me, nothing is enough for me.. no guy could make me happy.. he would say that a lot when we fought… anyways it had been 5 years this year.. and i told him that if he didn’t want to go to school or didn’t want to anything with his career its fine but understand the consequences .. he always did things that made him happy at that moment, but never planned or thought about what the consequences would be and then would cry how it didn’t work out.He was living at home.. but his parents paid for him to move into the city (I’m from ny) and they pay for his rent..hes barely making any money.. he has a job now .. I asked him, ‘ look I don’t want to get married now but I would like to by 32 I mean we’ve been dating for 5 years.. and he would get mad that I’m comparing myself to other people-all of his friends are married and sorted .. he’s the only one who’s in this situation..

Well I finally convinced my parents to meet him and he flipped out said harsh things.. and all of a sudden we broke up.. while he’s telling me he loves me .. and flips things back and forth said a million things that weren’t true.. and played games and manipulated the whole time.. some of it which I picked up and called him out on and he would be quiet when we were breaking up .. He wanted to end it and i was a wreck.. but then he wouldn’t leave my apt.. I said, ” look if we are done you need to leave” and he wouldn’t.. anyways after the break up he played more games by block/unblocking me on fb.. started a twitter war..

I found out through twitter who the girl he was cheating on me with towards the end.. and now they are all lala.. he smokes with her.. she doesnt care about careers I can tell.. and when we met he told me he was vegetarian.. and now hes eating everything under the sun, when i found that out I was devastated .. because it told me he lied about everything .. I couldn’t believe it, who would lie about such a thing.. and honestly i dont even care that much what you choose to eat.. wouldn’t stop me from dating someone who ate meat.. yes its easier but it certainly isn’t a decision point..

Now I see them all happy and I question is he who I think he is a narc/socio or just an ass.. i guess the question comes from was it me or not.. and will he do it to her.. I ask this not just for my sanity .. because if it is me .. I need to understand what I’m doing wrong so that this doesnt happen in the future.. I dont think I could have done more than I did with the relationship.. I was always loving, supportive,caring.. its my nature.. my friends think I was in an abusive relationship – naturally they know all the stories.

Well this is my story in its shortest possible form (which isn’t very short – I have lots of examples of his behaviour just a lot to type)

I dont know if this helps.. but yes. oh something I must mention he ruined almost all of my birthdays.. birthdays are a big deal for me .. and he would always find a way to ruin them ..

How do I know if the person I was with really is a narc/socio and was not just an ass to me? I go back and forth on this a lot. He lied to me about everything from day one which has come out since the breakup… well I know some of the lies which makes me think there is a lot more i don’t know.. he seems more honest with her – it hurts me so much that he lied to such a degree with no care. we were together for 5 years and it never mattered to him once. But he seems so happy with the new girl.and she’s the polar opposite of me. I mean she talks like skank on twitter like no tomorrow.. talking about their sex life etc etc..

I wonder if he’ll contact me, if he thinks about me, if he still has number in his phone, if he looks at my twitter page or feel something that i blocked him.. i feel a bit stuck and hurt. Sometimes i realise i even want him back even though i know he did horrible things to me this makes me worried for myself.

How do i really know who he is and that he hasn’t changed and will do it to her? I keep going in circles with this.. i want an answer .. my mind is so lost.

i would truly appreciate your thoughts and advice..

thank you so so so much.

From what you say your family is against this union from the get go, I understand the cultural differences and even if it may seem silly to you are you really prepared to cause problems between you and your parents for a man who is basically a loser from the word go?
You have to ask yourself why you are attracted to a man who has none of your values. He does drugs and you are dead set against drugs. He does not have any career goals and his parents have to bail him out constantly and even so he lied to them more than once and YOU. If he lies to his parents do you really think he is ever going to be honest? 
Who cares if he is a narcissist or if he is different with this new woman? He was not right for YOU! Why on earth would you want to marry a man who doesn’t work, has no motivation to make anything of himself, does drugs and is still supported by his family AND none of your friends like him and your parents are against it.
Ask yourself, why do YOU want HIM? not what is wrong with you. It is not wrong to have different goals, morals, values, wants and dislikes than a man, it just makes you incompatible.
You have spent 5 years trying to change him into a man you would be happy with and he has proven time after time after time that he is not going to change. So maybe he has found a woman who doesn’t mind the drugs and his lifestyle, that does not mean you were wrong or at fault. You know, not everyone is going to love you or even like you.
You met a man you were attracted to, you got to know him and realized he has none of your values and you should have walked away 3-4 years ago but instead you have kept trying to make him into the man you want him to be and you would marry him why? with the belief that once you were married he would change? Are you that desperate for a man in your life that you would take any loser that comes along? 
Is having a man more important than being happy? Do you want this constant friction? fighting, lying, drugs, bailing him out financially? Do you want children? do you want to raise children with this man? Is this the kind of home you can see having children happily running around and him being a doting responsible daddy taking care of his family?
I don’t know if he is a narcissist, I DO know he is a spoiled guy who’s parents have always bailed him out, he is a stoner and they rarely have the motivation to have a successful career on top of that why should he if his parents will bail him out when he gets in over his head? He gets depressed, awwwwww poor baby, he is not your problem to fix. If he wants to grow up and be a man it is his responsibility to do that, YOU can not save him from himself.
I am sorry to be harsh but I get frustrated when I hear a beautiful young woman describe an absolute LOSER and then wonder what is wrong with her and she still wants him. WHY? 
If you want to find love, find a man with the same interests, goals, and culture as you. You will have a lot better luck. 
Value yourself enough to walk away when a man mistreats you.
Good luck
hugs
Carrie
 
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22 thoughts on “Is He A Narcissist Or Is It Me?

  1. No, I do not think that was harsh at all.. well, maybe a little but a lot less so than I would have been. Everything you said in the e-mail was exactly right on the money. Sometimes there is no way to sugar coat the truth.

    I have been thinking about this very issue since the past weekend, actually. Not every woman that is pining for a lost lover was dumped by an N Perhaps as you said, the guy is an asshole, more that likely immature if he said down the road ” this will happen” or ” we will be together forever” ( high school guys do that frequently to get into some ones pants, remember those days? ) but it takes more than a few lies to label someone Narcissist.

    Blogs like this are such a tremendous asset to informing women ( and men) about PD’s. But they also can and probably do give some a label to place on someone that just doesn’t want to be with them.

    I think you are right, some women will just do, say and even jump through hoops to be able to have any man, it doesn’t matter what kind of loser he is HE is hers,damnit! The fact that she has one validates her. Never mind the black eye, the cheating, the lies.

    Rejection is a tough thing. Not everyone you meet is going to love you or even like you. It’s a fact of life that you will want someone that may not want you And if you don’t accept that and continue to chase them I am betting the other party will get cruel about it. Ad you will be hurt more..

    Shouldn’t we be looking at all the things you mentioned? The little things like gainful employment, friends and family that are established and they have happy healthy relationships with Common religious beliefs? I for one would not be able to have a relationship w/ a practicing satanist ( so what if he thought I was hot?) It just wouldn’t work, I amy want to take him to church, so why try making it to.

    I think we need more of is HE what I want and need instead of can I be what he wants

    Liked by 1 person

  2. I think you was spot on carrie and in all honesty people just come looking to label them something to make themselves feel better, when deep down sometimes we just go for the complete opposite in the hope we can mould them into what we want….and that will never happen. The guy sounded like a drop out to me but nothing more. Spot on answer Carrie and harsh sometimes works….x

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  3. I’m trying to put myself in her shoes, and wondering how I would feel if I heard that feedback from you. I think I come to these blogs, currently, because I do want to know if my ex-boyfriend is a Narcissist. I think it means if he was then he did not care about me at all. And if he isn’t, then maybe he did. I don’t want to be hurting. And labeling him an N makes me feel better in a way. I don’t know. I’m in a place where I’m just discovering all this and in all honesty Carrie, I almost wrote you that exact same question! Is he or isn’t he? Sometimes we can just tell, not by their actions so much but by our own!

    And then in the end, you make a very valid point. Who cares? The fact of the matter is, he is a JERK – Jay Eee Are Kay! And he does treat me (her) right. So the real question is: do you want to be with someone who doesn’t want you? Who can’t love you? Who treats you like shit? Who lies? Who cheats? Who lined up another woman right after you? Who was making preparations to be with her while he was with you?

    I sure don’t.

    But shit. I can’t seem to let go just yet. Ugh. That’s the part that sucks. And what she doesn’t share are all the good things he did for her, which mine did for me 9 out of 10 times. Until the end of course when he twisted the knife in my heart as he wrenched my soul and spit venom upon me which I ate up like pup laps up milk. Holy Moly.

    And the other thing to look at is what the heck am I doing that allows this to happen?

    But then again, don’t they play psychological games with us, whether they are aware of it or not, and set us up to fail and fall and be miserable when they leave us for someone else?

    I think you make a good point too that we are beautiful women who need to value ourselves enough to walk away. Myself? I think I am not worthy of a good man, so I find the broken ones who I think no one else would want, because I have the perfect love they have never had, and selfishly then I am hoping to secure my mate.

    It’s all so sick and this time in my life all I really know is that I need to learn to value myself and be strong enough to make it thru this, so that I can love myself, focus on my son, be a good example, live a life without so much pain and misery. If I can work with my therapist, possibly work steps whether there are 6 of them or 12, and keep close to God (my Higher Power) then maybe I stand a chance to live the rest of my life with more peace than I have so far.

    So… were you too rough on her? I don’t know. I still value you Carrie and have learned so much from your writings, and from Ellie and some others here. This blog is my favorite place so far, and I’ve been to a few. I certainly don’t want my head chopped off, but I don’t want anyone to co-sign my BS either.

    I’m sure my 9 paragraph comment doesn’t help you Carrie.. 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Here’s the thing Andrea, you said

      “Myself? I think I am not worthy of a good man, so I find the broken ones who I think no one else would want, because I have the perfect love they have never had, and selfishly then I am hoping to secure my mate.”

      IF they are N’s, they are not broken in the sense that they recognize it. No amount of “love” can make them better, because they have no desire to be anything but how and what they are. They will show you exactly what you show them, if they sense you are insecure , they will make you fell more secure than you have ever felt. They watch us and give us exactly what we want They fill the empty holes in us. And they do this on purpose WHY? Because the “chase” and the “hook” is what they are looking for They give us back exactly what they know is the very thing we are wanting so badly. So that when they take it away , we are destroyed, they like to see the pain It makes them feel powerful. These are not men that no one wants. They will always have another victim because the next one will also be given exactly what she wants, for a time. Until it is her time to bleed. It’s a pattern they repeat over and over. They don;t want anyones love, it is useless to someone who has no empathy. You can’t love one into wellness. They are perfect in their minds as they are And they will never change.

      Hope that helps!

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Andrea, you admit you pick guys who need fixing thinking that they will appreciate you and your special love because you saved them from themselves. That is great that you can see that but you do realize how unhealthy that is right? I know you are taking steps to change the way you think so I guess that was a dumb question but I meant like, you know deep down that no one can “fix” someone else, right? that no one can fix us and we can’t fix anyone else, it never works, ever.
    A person has to look for a partner who isn’t broken, I know that sounds so cold hearted, what if you meet someone by accident and they just happen to have a major problem, you aren’t going to not date them just because of that! They could be a really nice person and if you wait then he might find someone else.
    Yes, good people have problems and challenges in life, some of them can be dealt with while dating but in most cases like, addictions, unemployment, homelessness, unhappy marriage, and severe financial problems, in prison, all should be fixed by the guy before he starts dating. A real man does not want a woman to fix him, a real man would wait to date until he was in a better place.
    I am not talking just narcissists, I mean all men, all women, they can’t fix us and we can’t fix them. They have to realize they have a problem and heal themselves.
    I know from family members who have gone to rehab, most rehabs forbid dating the first year, AA advises against it, and I advise against it until a person has healed from the N the person is too vulnerable, they replace one addiction with another and they numb their feelings with new love. Life is always new and exciting when we first meet someone and it fogs our judgement.
    It is great that you admit that you know what you do, not many women do admit it or even see it.
    Most victims of N’s aren’t looking for someone to save, some are looking for someone to save them and then, like me he was perfect for me, I didn’t want to change a thing about him and he felt the same about me (or so I thought) I didn’t see my ex as needing fixing at all. I wanted to meet a man with something going for him, a man with a good job, who wasn’t looking for a woman to take care of him, a partner in life and that is exactly what he presented himself to be. Of course he was lying and didn’t have the house on the ocean or the storage unit full of antiques (I love antiques) but I didn’t find out about the house until months in (he said it was rented out) and the furniture I didn’t find out about until 5-6 years in. He had made his own diplomas, he was good at presenting himself as a successful single man. He drove a BMW, he had money to burn (not that I am a gold digger, I just wanted a man with as much as I had, an equal partner but it turned out he had a motorcycle accident just before he met me and he had just gotten a $10,000 insurance payout.I had no idea he was going to invoice me two years later for everything he ever spent on me.
    With this young woman, from what she is saying, there were major differences right from day one. Drugs and she is dead set against drugs, no career, another thing very important to her, living off his parents, his parents bailing him out. There was nothing to base a relationship ON. AS marriage to this guy would be a disaster. I don’t understand why someone would pick someone who was so NOT what they are looking for.
    I have never gone out with guys who had nothing in common with me, I don’t understand that, do you understand it? if you do can you explain it to me? In my mind to pick someone you have to change is looking for rejection, like setting yourself up to fail. Like the person picks someone totally different from them so they are safe because they know it won’t work.
    Personally I don’t think I was too hard on her btw. I really think she needs to look at the whole thing honestly. I don’t know if he is a narcissist.
    There is a big difference between a run of the mill asshole or loser and a narcissist.
    I certainly don’t want to get into calling every man a narcissist because he refused to play the role a woman wanted him to. I had a guy I was dating screw around on me when we were dating a year. I was hurt, he wasn’t exactly honest about it, and I broke up with him. But he went on the marry a woman and have children and I don’t think he was a narcissist. He just was not ready to settle down, he had told me that and I had ignored it and I got hurt.
    My first husband screwed around on me, I don’t think he was a narcissist either because he was honest, giving and generally a sweetheart if he had been able to keep his xxx in his pants. With both guys my family loved them, my friends liked them.
    There is a lot to considered when you date, sure date a lot of guys, you don’t have to commit to every guy you date, you weed them out. You cut the out the ones who doing meet certain criteria. It seems to me some women want every man they date to love them. It isn’t like they are looking for a good partner, they just want a man and the first one that loves them back is good enough. That is sad.

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    1. Carrie,

      You wrote: Andrea, you admit you pick guys who need fixing thinking that they will appreciate you and your special love because you saved them from themselves. That is great that you can see that but you do realize how unhealthy that is right? I know you are taking steps to change the way you think so I guess that was a dumb question but I meant like, you know deep down that no one can “fix” someone else, right? that no one can fix us and we can’t fix anyone else, it never works, ever.

      Yes, I do know that is unhealthy. Yep, I know that no one can fix someone else. And even armed with that information when I met my ex boyfriend, the desire to show him that I could love him better than anyone else was clouded my common sense.

      He told me when I first met him, within the first week or two: You’ll leave me just like the last two women I dated left me. And he also said: You can do better than me.

      I stared at him when he would say the second thing to me. But when he said the first line: I’ll leave him just like the last two women did, I would ALWAYS respond: I am not those other two women.

      Part of me thinks he said those things so that I would feel sorry for him. So that I would be challenged to prove to him that he was wrong. I would NOT leave him. Those other women did not know what a catch he was. And those statements made me feel powerful and that I was a catch. If I am a catch, he wont leave me either then! And if I am going to prove to him how loyal I am, (did he trick me?) then he will have my devotion. Was this a ploy on his part?

      I set out to love him, to encourage him, to support him emotionally, to be there even when he didn’t have money. To love him even if he was broke! To love him even tho he drove a nasty old beat up truck that was old, broken and dirty. A truck that he didn’t have the money to fix. Luckily I never fixed any of that for him. I had money saved, but it was all retirement. And then soon I too lost my job. So the best I could do for him was pay for dinners out. I was not miss money bags.

      But he secured me all the while I thought I had secured him. I had someone now who I “thought” I was doing a favor to. He told me he liked my body the way it was. I was 135 lbs when I met him (I’m 5’4″). I went all the way up to 160 by the time he left me. I always complained about my weight gain, but he loved my body. He would say that if I lost weight I would dump him because all the guys would be after me. I had no true will power to lose the weight. He’d feed me desserts like crazy, even when I joined weight watchers. And who did he leave me for? A skinny beautiful 5’3″ gorgeous woman who was probably 110 lbs. I almost died when I saw her.

      I lost all that weight. This all happened end of July (just 3 months ago) and I am down to 135lbs.

      Did I set out to fix him? No! I set out to prove to him he was wrong, that I was loyal. In this way, I thought he would NEVER leave me because I was the best he had ever had. My sex appeal, my lingerie, my performance in bed… all stunning and appealing to him.

      Of course I’d get blind sided by his rage and his anger. I learned to stop questioning, for each time I did show my anger he rewarded me with silence. He said it was because he needed time alone to figure out his feelings. Stonewalling I called it. Introvert he called it. I learned if I were to question him, argue with him or confront him we would have a week of him not responding to me. And in fact we never argued really. Seriously. Why? Because the minute I got upset, he’d leave. For days. Date over! The arguments we had were texts. I send a flurry of texts and he’d not respond after a while, and boom. No response. More texts from me. No response. He would wait until I calmed down and then respond. It would take days sometimes.

      I digress. I am still crying over this guy some times. I’m JUST SICK that he’s with someone else. That after all the good times we shared he’s gone. That he made it clear legally he wants nothing to do with me. That he leaves places when he sees me (we live in a small town and have some of the same interests so I’ve run into him accidentally 3 times now). I am just sick that he could drop me after all the wonderful and intimate times we shared together, family times, holidays, evenings. And that he has a replacement who literally stepped into my place just days after break up. They do the exact same things we did. (I know because… I can’t admit it online).

      Again I digress. So, to answer your question: Hell yes I know I cannot FIX someone. I do notice that I tend to “settle for less” when I look at my dating history because I do NOT think I’m worthy of dating the type of guy I would like to have.

      This is what I am working on right now.

      Your blog and other areas in my life where I seek help are helping me become the woman I want to be. I’m not there yet.

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      1. I am going to throw this out here, not to be mean, but to see if perhaps we can get a dialog going, a discussion.

        I maintain that looks are important yes, beautiful homes and 401k,
        certainly but they are not the most important that these things do not ID us as a good catch. IF we project an image, we more than likely will attract someone that the image is important to and when that image fades so will their interest. What has happened to being a good caring person on the inside? Caring about ourselves as much as others? Projecting confidence, acceptance, knowing that we are probably not the “best” someone has had or can get but wanting something more than a relationship based on appearances? A relationship where the other person has to feel grateful that we have cast our wonderful attention on them? I dunno, I may be old school and out dated but I have learned a thing or 2 in life and to me, partners have to be kinda equal. I don’t really want to associate w/ a man that is only looking at my exterior, my surroundings. What I can give him the illusion of. IF that is how I hooked him then you can bet your ass that another women projecting better and harder than me will hook him too. It’s the deeper things inside that really count. All this way down the road I would much rather be told ANY DAY that I am a “good, decent human being that cares” than hearing ” what a knock out and fantastic lay” I am. But that is just me…….. compliments are real nice but are usually just words, ya know?

        I don;t want to be the “best” that someone has, I want to be ok. I want to know that even though I am “just ok” I am valued for the “ok” person I am and I wat to feel ok with just being me.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Ellie,

          I would LOVE for that to happen to me, to just be myself, be OK and to be loved genuinely and for who I am. Maybe it’s ego that makes me want to be the best lover a man has ever had. It certainly did feel good to hear that I was the best sex my ex ever experienced. I don’t know if he says that to his new girl, or if he said it to his old girlfriends. I’m friends with one of his old gf’s. I could ask her and then maybe know the truth… that he lied to me.

          Part of me still doubts he is an N, which leads me back to this original post. Should I care? Should I care if he was an N or not? Certainly in my 12-step program I’ve just been told that it doesn’t matter. That I should stop looking at him and look only at me. That every time I look for the answers to my “Why?” questions it keeps me in my sickness.

          What are your thoughts?

          Ladies… I have to tell you… today I’m hurting really really bad. I miss him so so much. I am so tempted to text him. Please help me not to. Please, don’t bash me for wanting to. I am crying as I write this. My heart is aching for him.

          Hugs to you all (and many thanks)…
          Andrea

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          1. I am so sorry Andrea. Sucks to hurt and I am going to be cliche here but “no pain no gain”. What 12 step program are you attending? I think I saw something on your blog about one of the ex’s drinking alot having an issue w/ alcohol? Forgive if I read that incorrectly. I am very familiar with Alanon. I credit them with saving my life, really. My ex was an alcoholic ( back then that was the only label I could pin on him ) since then I also discovered he was an N. And it is true what they say. You have to focus on you. Not question WHY about him. HE has his own stuff , you can not do it for him to make YOU better. I don’t care what type addiction it is The partner has an addiction and we then are addicted to them. We have the same dynamics. Does it matter really what his answers would be if you could ask them ( and he would answer honestly)? What does it matter if you were the best sex he ever had? Would that make you feel better? really? How? So you could look at the new g/f’s picture and think “I am better than you?”. Why is being better so important? Regardless, HE is not with you. The answers do not change that fact. Some women come to the blog and truly do not seem to understand that you can not force a man to be with someone they don;t want to be with, that you can not change his mind, that if he said something he HAS to stick to what he said to death. Life is not like that. People say things all the time that they feel at that moment and years, months later they just don;t feel like that anymore. Look at how much divorce there is. ALL those ppl promised to love one another till death do them part. Did they lie? I am thinking not at the moment they said them. Can you hold someone to something they said for ever more? I think you hate the idea of being rejected more than it bothers you that he does not love you.. You would be better about it all IF he was not with someone. Or maybe if YOU were w/ someone. None of it matters, only what is. What do you think you would say if you contacted him? Would it really make any difference? What if he was mean, cold? I think if he wanted to be w/ you he would be. I know it hurts, sometimes we just don;t get what we want. Work the steps. One day at a time. And let go and let God. And focus on you. That is the only person you have any control over.

            Liked by 1 person

            1. Ellie, this is so good I have to print it. Yes, it’s the program you mentioned and I’ve been in it for 14 years, consistently until my ex-boyfriend. Slowly I stopped going and he encouraged it in very subtle ways, just like i think he ignored the fact that I was trying to lose weight.

              You are 100% right about EVERYTHING, and maybe I just need to have a really really good cry tonight because you’re right…. I was REJECTED and here I am back to where I started, the feelings of abandonment and shame. Friggin sucks. I think at one point I have to suck it up and brush myself off and start over. I hate him. I miss him. I hate him. I miss him. Ugg… 🙂 I need a break from this and so I’ll go do some work now and head to my meeting tonight and check back in tomorrow. My head is really swirling.

              Thank you and a big hug to you. You are direct, polite, kinds and honest… and insightful.

              Andrea

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            2. Andrea, I didn’t throw away my momentos of my ex until about 6 months ago. I didn’t look at them all the time but I couldn’t get rid of them. I still have a few things but I kept them more as evidence of how whacked out he can be.
              I only ever had a couple of pics and letters from him, he had destroyed anything else, all my paperwork, the first couple of years he wrote me lots of love letters and after we broke up one time he wanted us to have a fresh start and destroyed anything from the past. I think he was just getting rid of evidence. But I had my journals from 2006 -2010 and court documents etc. I could not bring myself to part with them so I didn’t. Some people say you should have a ceremony and burn them to release yourself, and others talk about a cutting the cord ceremony. Whatever works for the individual. I don’t advocate any one thing as the answer. Some swear by meditation others yoga, incense, prayer, forgiveness, and I just say, whatever gets you through the day as long as you don’t contact him,
              Don’t worry about what you would do if he called you. Just don’t call him right now. the only thing that kept me from calling my ex was my pride and I knew I could not take any more rejection.
              Sure I would get an urge to call and then I would think, “what do you want to say?” “Are you going to grovel and beg him back?” “Even if he did apologize what could he say that would make you feel better?” THAT one really got to me.
              Think about it, what could you’re ex say to you that would make the pain go away? have you thought about that? Like what can he possibly say to make what he did ok?
              What excuse could he give that would make you go, “oh! well why didn’t you say so, I feel so much better”
              If he said it wasn’t your fault, he just stopped loving you.
              I know that wouldn’t have made me feel better. He was an asshole but he has changed (because he would have to have changed to admit he is an asshole.)
              That wouldn’t have made me feel better either, because now I have to think that she is getting everything I wanted.
              Are you to phone and tell him how miserable you are? why? because you think he will feel sorry or guilty? will it make you feel better even if he could feel guilt or remorse. Would it fix anything for you? It would help he out because it would prove to the new woman that he can’t be that bad if you want him back so bad and she is going to try even harder to hang onto him. You want him to be miserable and for him to treat this woman as badly as he treated you, don’t you? Well, as long as you are feeding his ego with your pain and she is seeing how badly you want him back they are both going to be working hard at making it work. The minute you don’t care about him and stop feeding his ego he will have to get strokes from somewhere else and his mask will fall with the new woman. If you don’t want anything to do with him the new woman is going to think maybe she has reason to be happy I have him and not her.
              Contact does nothing good for you and only works in his favor.
              Whatever gives you the strength to not call is all you have to worry about at this time. Once you have done it long enough it gets easier because you don’t want to ruin your good mood.

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          2. Is it the freedom programme? the 12 step thingy? it is really good, I have the book and I am going to do it in person again (I only got a part way through it when pregnant) I know the talk, I know what to say to people and I know the course but once emotions are in….it feels impossible.

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            1. I am not sure Fee. Here in the states we have 12 step groups based on AA. They are primarily for addictions and family and friends of the person effected by those addictions. There are groups for sex addiction, drug even gambling. Any addiction will follow the same disease process and ppl close to the addicts are them impacted much all in the same way. WE come sick also. Sick way of thinking, control issues. Step one is the acknowledgement that you life has become unmanageable and only a higher power can restore your sanity ( paraphasing) It;s based on getting a person to “let go” of control of the other person , as for all partners of those involved in an addiction WE are the ones that really end up with the control issue. It makes you concentrate on YOU, you are not allowed to keep discussing the “addict”, they will gently and then not so gently always lead you back to YOU. Because YOU are the only one you really have control of. I was a member for SEVEN years! SEVEN. I was a very slow learner 😦 OH, I had a really hard time letting go of that control. The magical thinking. The if only he would….then I would type of thing.

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    2. Carrie,

      I’m not dating for 6 months, and even then, it’s just a short goal. Even if I think I am ready. At 6 months I will re-evaluate. I doubt I’ll even be ready by March 2015. Being that I relapsed by trying to find out info about my X (I wanted to know if he was still seeing her), I suspect I wont even be ready by March. Being that today I just cried again from my heart aching and breaking, I doubt healing will come 4 months from now. Being that I write him letters that I do not send apologizing for my behavior, I have no doubt I have lots of work to do to heal.

      What sucks is time takes time. I want SO DESPERATELY TO SEE HIM. I ache for him again, for his love and friendship. To look into his eyes that are bright and beautiful and as blue as the sky. I miss his arms around me, I want him back so bad.

      I am discounting the HELL I felt and went thru. I am ignoring all that. I keep asking what the eff is wrong with me! Why can’t I be stronger and tell myself I DESERVE BETTER? I don’t want anyone else right now. I want HIM.

      Lord help me. 😉 I’m just as sick as the reader who wrote you that letter and I am very fearful I wont get better despite my efforts. I want a magic pill, and unfortunately I think this is just going to take time. My spending nights alone while he’s with her is tough. I make plans, I really do. I’m happy to prove that to you by showing you my schedule. So many friends cancel. It kills me. Even single friends. Thank goodness for a friend of mine who has just left her husband of 17 years. Verbal abuse. She and I have been spending time together even tho our situations are very different. But lordie, I need to go read your post about getting thru this because it really feels like I’m not. God and life has provided everything I need: a new beautiful apartment in my price range, good friends, awesome support, ways to get better, insurance hurdles resolved (so I can get medical help), money sources… just everything is coming together in my life. But the healing is not coming fast enough (for me). It’s long, slow and drawn out. Perhaps it’s because I have not gone no contact yet. He hasn’t contacted me in 3 months. But I am not ready to throw out his gifts, his emails, his photos. I haven’t looked at them in a month now. but I just can’t. Maybe I need to? I wonder if it will be like a bandaide being ripped off. Hurt at first but then the healing will go faster? I’m not ready to let go and give up hope that he will come back. I just want to talk to him without this horrible thing; I just want to hear him be sorry… Please don’t be too harsh with me. I need to get better. I’m trying…. I’m trying to get to that place where I can go No Contact as many blogs / forums describe. I guess according to one blog, I’m in the “No Response” stage which maybe is honestly a “response” stage for I most likely would respond if he contacted me.

      Hold on to hope. And it’s unhealthy. I KNOW!

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      1. It is weird but when you do a lot of work on yourself you find the answers you was looking for ….from yourself. I know just what you meant Andrea as though I wasn’t looking for someone who needed fixing, I guess I knew I had faults (insercurity being one of them) and I thought if I am not perfect and they accept me and am hard work…then I would be better off with someone not so perfect too as then I know I will give them everything and if I get it get…somewhere in this twisted outlook I might be ok…..I have always been great in my own company and was on my own for 3 yrs plus without even a kiss…I know I don’t need a man…but no amount of work I have ever done on myself can somehow fill a gap I know is within only when I get in a relationship. I am great on my own….soon as I meet someone I am not so great and I now think I am best never meeting anyone. Its something I am going to look into massively again as I know there is something and until I tap in on it and find what triggers it when I meet someone I will never find mr normal or right for me…I will always find people who are also flawed in some way. I am sick of pretending in my life. I am being honest with myself. I have something that attracts and makes men lie and I know I have high standards but they drop massively when a mask or two drops from them and instead of running off…I stay and work on it…no matter how bad it gets I think I deserve it. I know I am not a bad person, I know I don’t hurt folk and I know I give my all….I also know I expect someone to fill whatever it is that seems lacking in me when am with them….and I know it will never happen. Ellie you hit it on the head….he was the one person who filled that gap…he made me feel really special and I pined after it countless times just to try and get it back from him…but I was left worse then ever. I am now glad I met him as everything happens for a reason and I will be way better once I work through it all.

        It hurts like hell Andrea when your still holding on to something…and you are…your not ready to fully give up on him. He could come back, say sorry and you would you be happy? knowing he cheated and lied….or amazingly met someone days after you and he can come out with the best story…..would u be happy to hurt for a few special moments. Its ok to be honest with yourself….I know loads of times I just wanted him to come be sorry, go for help and make me feel the best anyone as…but I knew it would be at a cost…and I knew I would probably go insane with it.

        A part of me loves and craves what we had, I cant help it and I miss it so much….the other part never felt loved and respected and I need to focus on that. Its been a year since I saw him in person, 6 mths since sykpe and 3 months since I give birth to his son. I have my moments where I wanted the happy family, but all I will get with him is to watch my back….

        You will find love again, it will take a good while but it will happen. Don’t hold on to fake emotions he offered and is offering someone else when someone can give you pure emotions….
        Love you guys x

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        1. Fee, this is so true
          “It is weird but when you do a lot of work on yourself you find the answers you was looking for ….from yourself.”
          and sometimes, many times I have thought I had to go through the pain of James stripping me of everything I thought made me who i was in order for me to become the me I was meant to be, a me I was happy being. It was a hard painful battle but worth it in the end and I think you are finding that out.
          You are a very wise woman you know?
          How’s the wee Jacob?
          Big hugs

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  5. Wow, I just read the whole series of comments here and I am so impressed with everyone’s thoughts and honesty, Wow just wow. Dialogue like that is so helpful to other people and did you all notice what happens when one person is open and vulnerable then everyone else felt safe to be vulnerable also. I love you guys!! Big group hug!!

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  6. Andrea, believe me, I went way longer holding out hope he would come back to me, and i had been through the break up and get back together thing with him so many times and I was afraid for my life, I knew this man could kill me and I still doubted myself. Any even though I knew deep down I shouldn’t go back I could not trust myself to not go back for a couple of years! Please don’t get discouraged. I didn’t hurt that bad all that time, I just did not trust myself to be able to say no to him if he came around all full of apologies. I know NOW I would never go back. I have heard the same apology 3 times, there isn’t much he could say now that I haven’t heard before, right up to he is dying.
    I was NOT any stronger than you or anyone else that comes in here, in fact I think I am one of the ones who took the longest to get her shit together. That is why I do share it all because I am trying to save someone else some time and heart ache.
    I am not going to criticize you for missing him, of course you miss the good times, it is really hard to separate the the good guy from the evil cruel guy. It is almost like they are two different people. We still love the good guy and we hate the bad guy. For a long time I thought my ex had split personality because the two of him I saw were like two totally different people. It took a long time for the two of them to meld into one for me.

    The evil one is so evil and cruel beyond anything we can comprehend, is it any wonder we struggle trying to comprehend it?

    I think it is human nature to want to be the “best”, I used to always think and even say to him; “You will never find a woman who loves you as much as I do.” and he loved rubbing that in my face once he met the new woman. He took great pleasure in telling me he didn’t even have to ask and she lent him $15,000 to get his driver’s license back (because to him love is money) and that she was supporting him financially and for awhile it bothered me. But then I thought, there is no way I could have ever been that woman for him. I needed to work, I was not a widow with a bunch of money, I didn’t have the luxury of staying home all day while he drove my car, I had a son I also loved and this new woman didn’t have kids. I was comparing myself to a woman who was so totally different than me and someone I could never be and never wanted to be.

    But I think it is just human nature to always want to be “the one who got away” in the guys mind, the one he always thinks back and wishes he still had. I had always been the one who left the relationship, and the guys always wanted me back because i WAS a great girl friend/wife, I was great in bed, I kept the perfect house, I was an awesome cook and entertainer, my friends teased me by calling me Martha Stewart because I made everything from scratch, I decorated for every occasion. I was anorexic for years, in my year 20’s I didn’t even own jeans because I was always dressed perfectly, I went to the gym everyday, I tanned and got my nails done every week, my gardens were perfect. I was also the best daughter, sister and mother, I excelled at work. God damn I was a saint!! I was self supporting and independent, I could flirt and get any man I wanted if I wanted him and I entertained his friends and his family and decorated his house. And I was miserable and I started to drink too much and because James took it all away from me, he became my life. For a lot of years we didn’t even have a kitchen and I lost my talent at cooking, I had to start shopping at value village and I went through menopause, quit drinking. What it all boiled down to, by the time I left him I was like a new born baby, I had been stripped of everything that had made me who I was.

    All I have from my life prior to meeting James are some photo graphs. I have nothing of Kris’s from when he was a baby, I used to have my first teddy bear-gone, my old wedding rings -gone, my pots and serving dishes etc- gone, not one piece of clothing – gone. Everything I own I have attained since leaving him. That is why I tried to kill myself because I had lost my identity totally. Then I had to rebuild myself and I realized a lot of who I was came from my parents, and other influences.I kept my house clean because my mom said I should, my mom was OCD about keeping her house clean. It became an obsession for me, I could not leave the bathroom without shining the faucets and folding the towels, every single time I went in there. I could not go to bed with even one dirty cup in the sink. My dad used to tell me I was going to be a better wife than my mother was to him and I would give my husband sex whenever he wanted (what father talks to his daughter like that?) I was going to cater to my man. I could not enjoy any food I hate because I was afraid I would get fat. ( my mom was always getting me to start a new diet with her and my dad called us both lard ass) I never enjoyed cooking for a crowd because I was so concerned about whether everyone was liking it or not and if I was the perfect hostess.

    My family and friends threw me a surprise 40th birthday party and when I walked in the first thought that came to my mind was.”OMG the toilet is dirty.” My sister in law had arrived and used the bathroom and said to my mom,”Carrie is going to freak, her toilet is dirty.” and sure enough, I immediately went in and cleaned the toilet.

    When I rebuilt myself I didn’t want to be like that any more, it was hard, and it is hard to describe but I chose who I wanted to be this time, like a rebirth. In so many ways, in almost every way I am not the person I was before I met James. My basic personality is the same, I still care and I am giving and loving and my son is my life but things that used to matter just don’t any more. The big house doesn’t matter to me, expensive clothes, being the best doesn’t matter any more. Living honestly and speaking MY peace in my truth is important to me, more important than saving someone elses feelings.

    I love the Serenity Prayer
    God grant me the serenity to to accept the things I can not change
    To change the things I can
    and the wisdom to know the difference.

    We can only change ourselves

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  7. I have No Contact now for nine months and I mean really No Contact at all. When I started it he searched for a new woman, and yes he found her in no time. Sometimes I want to tell him what I feel, how I feel, what he did wrong, but I am always capable of not doing this. Otherwise he could ‘learn’ something out of it.
    But still he is in my head and I want him out. Next week I am getting EMDR therapie (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing). They nowadays also use it for long term trauma’s.
    I will let you know how it is working. X

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