Abuse-Can Be Subtle and Deadly

People hear the word “abuse” and assume physical violence, but there are many forms of abuse. There are your run of the mill a-holes, wife beaters and cheaters and then in a class all of their own, are narcissists/psychopaths. Even narcissism has varying levels of abuse and degrees of severity, some narcissists, although cheaters and liars never physically abuse their partner and are able to hold down jobs. At the other end of the spectrum are the narcissists who destroy all who come in contact with them. It has taken me a long time to accept I was involved with a narcissist and even longer to realize and accept how truly evil he was and the danger I was in. One of the most powerful weapons the abuser has to keep the victim in the relationship is the victim’s own denial.

In my quest for answers I came across a couple who claimed he was a narcissist and she, through her love for him, discovered how to “cure” him. For anyone to claim they can cure a narcissist is a dangerous game to play. As is typical of the victim, my hope was restored and I clung to any remote chance; I could “cure” my ex also. I was quick to grasp at anything that indicated if I tried harder, was more understanding and loved unconditionally I could save the relationship and my ex. That was almost 15 years ago, I don’t know if they are still around but you would figure if it was possible to cure a narcissist the internet would be full of testimonial about their discovery. Never think you can love the narcissist well, or if you try just a little harder to please him things will be ok. We are strong women, we tend to think we can give a little more, bend a little farther and then we find ourselves in too deep to extricate ourselves.

I read somewhere that a woman will stay in or go back to an abusive relationship as long as she feels there is something she can do to “fix” it; until she feels she has done everything she can do, she won’t leave on her own. With my experience I can only say that the longer I stayed and the more times I went back the more severe and insidious the abuse got.

With physical abuse there are often signs of abuse, bruising etc and people are much more apt to believe the victim, come to their assistance, and support them emotionally or financially.

Emotional abuse is ambiguous and hard to prove, the victim is less likely to get support and people tend to think they are exaggerating, overly sensitive or antagonizing the abuser. Society in general does not view psychological or emotional abuse as “dangerous” and feel that if the person isn’t treating you the way you would like just leave. They don’t understand the damage done to the emotional state of the victim or the potential danger to the victim.

All abuse stems from the abusers need to control the victim, whether it is physical abuse, emotional abuse, verbal abuse, sexual abuse, or financial abuse.

A narcissist at his worst will use a combination of all the above abuse tactics and can leave the victim paralyzed, unable to make decisions, hopeless, depressed and lacking the self-confidence to help themselves. They no longer feel like themselves, having lost their soul to the narcissist, they don’t even know who they are any more and have lost all trust in a fair and just world.

The most dangerous of all abuse is Ambient Abuse, Often called “crazy-making”, or “gas lighting”, it is the stealth, and subtle, underground maltreatment that sometimes goes unnoticed even by the victims themselves until it is too late. It is ambiguous and atmospheric and very hard to pinpoint or prove; hence it’s insidious and deadly effects.

Ambient Abuse is the fostering of an atmosphere of fear, intimidation, instability, unpredictability and irritation. There is no tangible evidence of abuse but the victim constantly senses a bad omen or premonition of impending doom. It is perpetrated by dropping subtle hints, by disorienting, by constant and unnecessary lying, by persistent doubting and demeaning and by inspiring an air of unmitigated gloom and doom. Insisting the victim did not see or hear what they did, hiding personal items of the victim but blaming the victim, insisting the victim said or did certain things that the victim did not do but eventually starts to doubt their own perception of reality.

Over the long-term this environment eats away at the victim’s self esteem and their self-confidence is severely damaged. Many times the victim starts to act paranoid and highly emotional, which makes them look like the mentally unstable one and the abuser is the poor suffering soul. Some examples of ambient abuse would be withholding affection or intimacy, rolling their eyes when you express an opinion or criticizing your actions “for your own good”.

There are 5 categories of ambient abuse:

Inducing Disorientation

The abuser causes the victim to lose faith in her ability to manage and cope with the world and its demands. She no longer trusts her instincts, her skills, her strengths, friends, family, or the benevolence and predictability of her environment.

The abuser challenges his target’s perception of the world, right and wrong, her judgment and offers plausible but false alternatives. my ex would always say he couldn’t handle my warped perception of reality, until I questioned myself for getting upset he was seeing other women and whether I was actually being abused. By continually criticizes her decisions he makes her doubt her ability to make wise choices. With his pathological lying he blurs the lines between reality and nightmare. He constantly violates her boundaries and disrespects her values, feelings and opinions, “deal breakers” such as drug abuse, infidelity, lying and stealing become common place and she is made to feel she is in the wrong for confronting him on his indiscretions or that somehow she is to blame for them.

For most of our relationship my ex refused to come to bed, at first he always came to bed then he would stay up until 3 or 4 am, then he was coming to bed just in time to have sex before we had to get up for work, and the last few years he rarely came to bed at all. He said he just didn’t need sleep, but he would fall asleep anywhere and everywhere, he could sleep standing he’d be so tired. He never said I was unattractive, I had always been confident sexually but after a while I lost all confidence in my ability to satisfy a man. He would say he loved me and I was over reacting to be upset he didn’t come to bed, or he would say he didn’t come to bed because I didn’t make him feel welcome in bed. I would make more of an effort and be told I was being too pushy and needy.

By overreacting to the slightest mistake on her part and setting her up with demands impossible to meet he intimidates her to the point of paralysis.

Incapacitating

The abuser gradually takes control over the victim’s freedom and ability to be self-sufficient (i.e.: their vehicle is never working, they lose their job, loss of friends and support system due to never being able to entertain or attend events because of the N) it is very subtle and done in such a way that the victim doesn’t realize what is happening until it is too late. Then they find themselves isolated from the outer world and a hostage to the goodwill – or ill will of their captor.

The abuser engineers impossible, dangerous, and unpredictable situations where his skills or knowledge is sorely needed. He orchestrates circumstances where his specific skills, connections, or traits are the only ones useful and helpful. In this way he creates his own indispensability; giving him another reason to resent his victim and another excuse to be angry with her for being needy. (my ex used to sabotage my vehicle, I would have no choice but to call for his help and he would make me wait hours and make it sound like it was a HUGE inconvenience and effort on his part to help me, but acted like the benevolent rescuer when he got there. He also got me evicted from every place I lived or we lived making us homeless and me dependent on him for everything) Right up to the last day we were together he constantly told me I would never find a man who would rescue me like he always had and I believed him. The truth is, I had many men willing to help me when my ex was out of the picture but my vehicle didn’t break down like it did when I was with my ex either.

Shared Psychosis

The abuser creates a fantasy world inhabited by the victim and himself besieged by imaginary enemies. The enemies may be people they know, (or totally made up) these people are plotting against them, lying to them or about them, basically “out to get them, and destroy their relationship” and she is expected to stand by him, fight against these enemies, lie, and pretend. She is continually “tested” and must prove her continued affiliation and support of him.

Eventually this constant stress reduces the victim’s resistance and ability to “see straight”. At one point my son lived with us and my ex tried to convince me that my son wanted to murder us in our sleep. He said he woke up in the middle of the night with my son standing by the bed just staring at us. Many years later his son came to live with us and within a short time he was telling me he had woken up in the middle of the night with his son standing beside the bed staring at us while we slept. He told me he had found ashes under the trailer we lived in and his son had tried to burn the trailer while we slept.

Abuse Of Information

From the first moment the abuser meets his victim he is collecting information. He will reveal just enough dirt about his past to put his target at ease so they feel safe opening up about their fears, indiscretions, and weak areas. The more he knows about his potential victim the easier it is for him to coerce, charm, manipulate and extort her. Whereas he was sympathetic when he first meets her once the mask drops he will use any information he has to belittle, criticize, discredit, and embarrass. He has no qualms using information he gleans to achieve his goals or destroy the target.

Control By Proxy

If all else fails the abuser will recruit a third-party to do his bidding. That 3rd party could be family, friends, institutions, teachers, the media, the authorities, and he uses them to cajole, threaten, stalk, harass, communicate, and otherwise manipulate his target. He controls these unaware accomplices exactly as he controls his victim and dumps them unceremoniously when the job is done.

Many narcissists do not physically abuse their victims, they are able to control them through psychological and emotional abuse which is much less likely to be detected and it’s much easier to deny and make the victim look crazy. My ex strangled me once (and denied it, according to him he didn’t strangle me or choke me, he just had his hands around my neck) and he hit me a handful of times in the 10 yrs we were together. There was no need to hit me, like most women after he hit  me the first time all he had to do was come at me with his fist raised and I would back down, but near the end even backing down didn’t stop him. It was as if he knew it was ending and he had nothing to lose by not holding back.  We went several years without him actually hitting me, but like my son said, that doesn’t mean he’s changed it just means you walk on eggshells.

What we all forget as victims is: IT IS NEVER OK FOR A MAN TO HIT A WOMAN (vise versa) there is absolutely no excuse for hitting a woman unless she was coming at him with a knife. There is nothing a woman can do that justifies getting hit, he can walk away, hit a wall if he has to hit something but she can not MAKE him hit her. Another thing we have to remind ourselves of: He knows exactly what he is doing and that it is wrong, he expects you to lie about it to everyone and if someone came to the door he would stop. If he was so justified in what he was doing there would be no need to lie and IF life with you is so unbearable that he feels he has no choice but to hit you then he needs to leave the relationship, BEFORE he finds your replacement!

Narcissists control by keeping their victim off-balance, another tactic for this is to not respond to something that would normally send them into a rage. They appear unaffected by an argument and act as if nothing happened leaving the victim waiting for the shoe to drop. Have no doubt that the narcissist will get revenge; he is the king of passive aggressive behavior that punishes the victim. He will take or destroy something of value to the victim. It could be weeks or months after the incident when the victim realizes a treasured possession in missing or broken, of course the N will deny knowing anything about it. This is most likely to happen when her focus is shifted on something other than the N, perhaps a child or other family member she is concerned about, anything that takes the attention off the N. (In 10 years I had all my clothes stolen, my photos had anti freeze dumped on them, memento’s were lost, my son’s baby teeth disappeared but the container they were in was in my ex’s music room, 3 vehicles were stolen, my vehicles were tampered with, the amount of hours I spent broken down on the side of the road would boggle your mind, almost weekly I would need him to rescue me, he made me miss events that were of immense importance to me, I was unable to finish my college education, every single piece of personal property I had was destroyed or stolen. I do not own anything today that I owed 16 years ago, nothing. Oh sorry, a few Christmas decorations, that is it)

The best indicator that you are a victim of ambient abuse is your gut; throughout the 10 years of my relationship with my ex I denied what my gut was telling me. And I wish with all my heart that you believe me when I say; it does not get better, his apologies mean nothing, he is only manipulating you further. Get out!! Before it’s too late.

Link to a post from 2012 one year after JC and I split, You can’t be first but you can be next http://wp.me/p1wKh3-kb

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363 Replies to “Abuse-Can Be Subtle and Deadly”

  1. Hahaha! Watched the videos above & boy as soon as as the bottom one ended & i read an ad for a following video called “how to outsmart” a narcissist”, i just had to click on that (& i’m normally somone who reads a lot & never watches videos so all this video-watching means i really got involved in this subject, you’ll see why later…). My thoughts at the time were, “i wonder how THAT turned out…” And then i heard the woman, Tina, say that “no 1 has ever done it”, to which i started jumping up & down in joy because, i’ve done it! Yep! I’ve responded to his put downs with a laugh and a “you’re the one with low self-esyeem…no wonder you can’t find anything to say that gets to me!”. I’ve turned HIS family against him by showing them how evil he’s always been, to them too. I’ve managed to get him stuck to going to counseling for his behavior after i recorded him & played it for the right people. But have i won? I’m smarter than him. He can’t deny that because my Mensa membership says it & his fear to even take the entrance test is something i’ve used against him myself after a few years of ignoring his stupid insults. I have better morals. He can’t deny that either because his manipulation tactics have grown to include lies and stealing money and i’ve been queen to catch him red-handed and expose him publicly. Great! Now what? I’m old enough to have developed self-esteem. Happens to us all. But apparently, none of the latter abilities or qualities were enough to protect me. Because even though i know myself & differentiated myself from him by stating out loud even, all the ways in which i’m so friggin great in spite of everything he says, (& i seem to have convinced everybody else of it too because they all trust and like me a lot more than they do him!), i wasn’t prepared for something i didn’t suspect would ever happen: i had begun over the last couple of years to have to raise my voice to have my “defenses” heard by him, i had to drop things i was doing to go calm down alone in “my” room, i had to waste about 10% of my time & life on fighting his battles, i was risking my life by putting earplugs in & ignoring him when he opened “his evil mouth” as i called it to him, etc… I hadnt become him but all the verbal defenses i put up sure did make me sound like a narc myself! So much so that HE even resorted to calling ME one! Hahaha! So trying to outsmart a narc? While some of us might think we did, it’s just a way we fool ourselves. We might actually OUTSMART them, yes. But not in the “regaining out freedom” dept! I outsmarted him verbally, even maybe psychologically because he couldn’t play his usual games. But the fact that i stayed shows that he still won. He still got me to be there. I started feeling sorry for him, for the loser i turned him into when i exposed him to himself and he couldn’t bear the pain. And that is even more insidious of a win for a born narc. Thankfully, i am now aware of it. I’m the one bringing in the money & i’m therefore going to make arrangements for him to have another residence. I’ll even pay for it for y months in advance! As long as i get no phonecalls! I’ve been over him for a few years now. I stayed because i thought he wasn’t hurting me in any way. I was waiting for him to get over his so called mid-life crisis! I felt sorry for him! But it’s not my fault he was abusive. He hit me once years ago & i put him in jail for it. He never touched me again & i thought there too, i was in control. But he got me to pay all the lawyer’s fees! He’s been using it to remind me of how i hurt him every time he threatened me & i responded “just try it & see how fast i’ll have you in jail again!”. I’m done. I’ve done nothing wrong to deserve all this abuse. I’ve fought it tooth & nail & recognising it early did nothing to extripate me from it. I’ve exhausted myself when i should have been doing something more productive with my life! I used to have so many hobbies and thanks to him, they’re all gone! I tried to start a food blog & he’d use my ingredients to make himself something to eat (ONLY himself) & leave his dishes to me! I called him a chauvinistic pig & wouldn’t buy him cigarettes until he relented but it always took so long that i ended up giving up my project… So no hobbies at home. Not even astronomy: he pawned my telescope one day! I knew if i bought another the same would happen… Sure, i could have outsmarted him by taking his picture to every pawn shop in town (in Los Angeles?!?) & said “any telescope brought in by this guy is stolen, call me & call the cops!”. But oh the time commitment! We can outsmart the narc, but doing so costs so much that it hands him the very victory we seek. It gives him our life. Please, if like me, you are a smart girl & you are tempted to outsmart a narcissist, think again: it was pretty dumb of me to bother! It could have gotten me killed… A big thank you to the creator of this blog for helping guide me to the aforementioned awakening! Hugs. Sydney.

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    1. Sometimes I am gobsmacked! Doesn’t happen often, but I am very confused here.

      How long have you been together? IF you are so clever Sydney then why did you not just leave anyway, especially if you have been the main breadwinner? It sounds to me as if you have got some pleasure out of these mind games. Why are you complaining now that it has all taken up too much of your time? If you are so smart surely you could have put two and two together and got out long before now? Is there something we don’t know? You don’t sound to be much of a victim.

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      1. She sounds like a victim to me. She’s right on track — that she managed to FIGHT the behaviors of his, and keep him off center. She did stay in the relationship. The reasons to stay are that one’s sense of judgement of self, even if it’s just in a tiny way, has been handed over to the other person. One stays to regain that bit of control over judgement over oneself. It’s rage that’s having trouble raising to the top long enough to burn the hurt away and shift to walking away. Now that she sees what she’s lost, she may well leave. It’s her choice, on whether that’s better for her or staying is what is best for her.

        Regardless, while I too asked, is this a perp covering up, the answer was a resounding no. This is like me. I fight hard when I meet a psychopath. So I don’t look taken over — except for that I’m doing what they want and am in the relationship. It’s when I leave that I have power. (It was one relationship of an unusual sort years ago — therapists can be psychopaths too, and even if it’s not physical abuse.) The other obvious one was the last year, and was part of a group involvement.

        So while she’s smart enough to avoid handing over all of her sense of self judgement… there’s something he did early on that set her off balance… and she’s still trying to figure it out and get that piece of herself back. Sydney – all the best to you at getting what you need. Whatever YOU decide that may be.

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        1. Hmm. Maybe.
          As a child I was stuck with a sexually abusive father (and other men he gave me to) and a mother who facilitated the situation. Then you are stuck with them for many years and have no escape. As an adult you do have more options. It has all taken a lot of getting over. However, once I did get a couple of excellent therapists I soon learned how many psychopaths are out there and decided not to waste any more of my life on them. The therapist taught me that I do count and how to say no!
          I now recognise narcs very quickly, male and female and just cut them out of my life. I don’t ever let them walk all over me but I also don’t stay around to allow them to play their games. They enjoy it too much and I won’t give them the pleasure.
          I know it takes years sometimes to recognise that the person you thought loved you doesn’t and then your energy levels, and finances are too depleted to make a quick break. People do need a lot of help to come through that and that is something this site gives. However, playing one up man ship with them can be extremely dangerous at its worst and drain your energy and make you unhappy the rest of the time. It pisses them off much, much more if you walk away with a dismissive attitude. They hate to be regarded as simply not worth the bother.

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  2. Sorry about the autocorrect typos. You gotta love smartphones… Lol Or turn the darn thing off. Example: i typed “i’ve been keen” & it corrected it to “queen” which i didn’t catch. The narc in my house who loves calling ME that would say “even your phone knows you’re one!” lol

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  3. I will be reading more of your articles. I was feeling guilty leaving the relationship. I kept telling myself it was the meds and the brain tumor. But that is just her excuse for acting the way she does, getting angry and physically violent. After all, her doctors told her to live life as she pleased since she had already lived longer than expected. It was my friend who first went back to all my wife’s facebook posts for years and found that when she said she was off facebook while with me, in reality she had been posting all along…even a week after our marriage ;looking for a new lover… a hard thing to learn after dedicating 24/7 to someone else. I guess I should consider myself lucky that I found out now, even the damage has been done and she has destroyed just about everything. Just as your article says. But at least I am still alive and I can rebuild one day.

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    1. Ugh. In the future time, you will be glad you found out now. Sorry to hear you’ve been duped by someone…. There are loving people out there.

      Glad too that as a man you’ve told your story. I’ve known two men abused verbally. They were strong, caring men. It’s the urge to care and take care of that some abusive women will use as the initial hook…

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    1. We are all perfectly aware that there are a great many women abusers, I have come across more women abusers in my life than men. They can be ultra cruel verbally. However, this question has been addressed and explained numerous times on this site. I have put several comments on myself. I will have to just start copying and pasting. I try to put, ‘the narc’ etc where possible but it becomes very long winded typing out – him/her all the time and also, when people have a long story to tell it would cause them to loose the flow and make reading the story more difficult.

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      1. I have a friend who works in support of victims of crimes. She held a workshop for male victims of sexual abuse. They face an unusual difficulity of how society faces them. It’s worth the extra work, in my opinion, to make these sites gender neutral when it comes to verbal abuse. We can’t stop abuse if we subtly give women abusers a bit of a free pass.

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        1. Curls, you speak like all the websites about abuse are written by the same ‘people”, a group or a “club” “These sites” are written by victims of abuse who hope that by sharing their story they save someone else from the same fate.
          I am fully aware that there are female narcissists and psychopaths and any man who has come here has been welcome and supported but I write from MY experience and I have done a lot of research pertaining to the topic of narcissists and psychopaths. I can not count the hours I have dedicated to supporting victims, on here, by email, by phone and even contacting the FBI to help a woman. I receive the occasional donation from a grateful follower of the blog but if I were to break it down to how much per hour I have made while I have had this blog it wouldn’t be a penny an hour.
          I state in my Welcome page that I may refer to “him” but I mean him/her, that I am writing from my frame of reference. I don’t feel it is necessary to keep repeating myself. If there are no sites focused on the male victims maybe a male should start one, why should I be concerned that men get equal time? When a man wants to pay me to write posts focused on the male perspective I will do so gladly, but until that time, this is my blog, about my experiences in an abusive relationship and I share in hopes I save other women from the same torture I went through. That said, I was approached a couple of years ago by a woman who wanted me to write her book for her because she thought I wrote with such passion; I turned her down because I knew I could not write about her experiences with the same passion I write about mine.
          Just for the record here are some stats for you:
          Every 9 seconds a woman in the United States is assaulted or beaten
          1 in 3 woman will experience domestic physical abuse in her lifetime, for men it is 1 in 7.
          1 in 7 women and 1 in 18 men have reported being stalked by an ex to the point of fearing for their life.
          1 in 5 women in the US has been raped in her lifetime, for men the ratio is 1 in 71 and that does not specify how many of the rapists who raped the men were men, ie: in prisons etc the rape stats are very high, but it is men raping men.
          19.3 million women compared to 5.1 million men report having been stalked by an intimate partner in their life.
          72% of all murder suicides involve an intimate partner, 94% of the victims were females.
          Between 2003 and 2008 142 women were murdered in their workplace by their abuser.
          In Canada a woman dies every 6 days at the hands of her male partner in the US it jumps to 3 women a day die at the hands of the man who says he loves her.
          A few other fun facts:
          The total number of American soldiers killed in Afghanistan and Iraq between 2001-2012 was 6488. The total number of women killed by her intimate partner during the same time frame was 11,766; nearly double.
          85% of domestic abuse victims are female
          A woman is 70 times more likely to be murdered within the first few weeks of leaving an abusive relationship
          Only 25% of domestic abuse cases are ever reported to the police so the figures are more than likely low and doesn’t take into account things like cut brake lines, etc

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    2. When you enter a site that is run by a woman who has sustained a severe amount of trauma by a male, it is only natural to expect her experiences and writings to be from that perspective. We all know that narcissists come in each gender. She isn’t being “biased” or sexist. This is her personal story on her own site she created to help other victims like her. If you cannot be understanding and comprehend that and dislike this site, please leave and keep your sexist, negative demands to yourself. Go stay within your own biased site. We’ve been through enough already.

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  4. The really scary thing about narcs beit male or female, is that they also operate in networks, almost recognising each other automatically. Narcs in networks can do the most damage imaginable, so when you shut one out of your life, even with a court order, others can be included to continue the abuse. A case in hand would be the church of Scientology, although I know little about such a network, I would conclude that it appears the narcs are treated well whilst the non-narcs are treated abismally. It doesn’t matter where you go in the world, the narcs usually enjoy a life of abusing non-narcs, and we find it hard to understand how being a decent human seems to be so much less rewarding than being a narc. One thing that is clear, the longer the passage of time, the more we understand ourselves and our enemies. Some may chose to connect all this to God, I certainly do not. I am not against God, I just find it hard to believe that if such an intelligence exists, and that he/she wants us to be so good, why do we face the toughest time for doing nothing wrong? So for some I understand God is a way to justify an argument, albeit the supposed existence of God seemingly being for the good of humankind constantly contradicts itself, when you consider that being one of gods good children really doesn’t equate to happiness in life, or protection from narcs. When something good happens, it’s supposedly gods work, when something bad happens God moves in mysterious ways, it seems far more logical to me that religion is a method of social control, passed over many centuries, and there is never any evidence of the existence of God but if enough people say it more will believe it. Now what’s the betting I have no better or worse day, week, month or year than I ordinarily have before saying all this. Please don’t be offended by my point of view, but clarity in all situations is much better than just handing off everything as an act of God. Did a small dinosaur think it was an act of God when a big dinosaur was killing It, or did it just see its life as surviving by its instincts? Of course the bible does not mention dinosaurs, because when the bible was written by man, he had not learned to excavate bones and understand that a species existed for a billion years prior to our existence over the last 50,000 years. Of course believe what you will, especially if it makes life easier, but you have a better chance of survival just accepting that we live in a brutal world, constantly manipulated by fellow humans who give not a jot about us, and so our survival rests on our own intelligence and understanding of that, not by reaching out to an outdated ideology actually created by humans, written by humans and practiced in many different guises all over the world, by Humans. Not trying to offend anyone, just putting it out there as an interesting conversation piece 🙂 I have always been morally good, I didn’t need religion to achieve that but would my life have been any easier with religion, I don’t think so, but with the knowledge I have now, I can at least know how to avoid the wrong type of people and maybe even build a better life from there.

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    1. Narcsareevil, there was a time while I was with James that my faith in God got very strong and it sustained me. The bible does speak of narcissists although it doesn’t call them narcissists; I found it quite interesting. Here is one of the many scriptures
      2 Timothy Chapter 3

      1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

      2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

      3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

      4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

      5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

      6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

      7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

      My personal belief is that there is a “higher power” but not a God who watches over our every move. I believe in the Laws of Attraction and that we vibrate at certain levels, although I haven’t been able to master the laws of attraction I believe prayer is another form of meditation and positive thinking which would raise your vibrational level and consequently bring good things into your life. But when all around you is shit it is very hard to raise yourself up out of the pits of despair and that is where the narc likes to keep his victim.

      I call myself a spiritual person and I believe that all cultures have their God or higher power, whatever name they call it. Scientology is a cult in my opinion and not a religion at all. Any religion that says “we have all the answers and you have to believe what we say and not have a contrary opinion or ask questions” is a cult. The bible says that we are to question, we have our own mind to make our own decisions, I think people don’t question life enough, there are things that can’t be answered and I think there is life on other planets and far advanced to us on earth.

      I think we all need something to believe in, whatever gets us through is all that matters. But there are a lot of evil people who hide behind religion. James was one of them, he was a christian when it suited him but he went to Sudan as a volunteer for a well known charity and ended up being run out of the country because he got a young native Sudanese girl pregnant, stole from the charity and got engaged to another young Ugandan girl and promised to bring her to Canada for 4 years after he left. As if those poor people haven’t had enough grief in their lives, he had to go and steal from them and destroy their faith in all the good people who go there to truly help them.

      Narcissists are born the way they are, without the capability to feel empathy and they have no conscience. In fact they feel very little, that is why they have to always live on the edge, adrenaline junkies and thrive on chaos, they are trying to feel something. They see other people have feelings but they really don’t understand what that means. They fake feelings in order to look normal and assume other people have ulterior motives for showing feelings, they can fake real tears but have no idea why a person cries, they are empty shells.

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      1. As far as the law of attraction, I met the N I just left while experimenting with the powers of manifesting. I was working specifically with womb energies, and healing my womb-space, while calling in a partner with whom to have a child. The next day, I meet a man who it turns out is obsessed with having children. The lesson I learned: Use the energies to attract, but set your boundaries firmly, yet not too rigidly. Let the energies flow, but make sure to place a filter on them!

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    2. They do seem to operate in networks. And it gives them power in situations where they shouldn’t have it.

      To it seeming like a rewarding live over morality — not in the slightest. You feel love, compassionate, gratitude. A pyschopath doesn’t. They never experience the joy you feel at a sunset, a flower, at person helping you, you helping a person. They feel emptiness and fill it up with control, and things.

      They never feel joy. Ever. They pretend that feeling, same as all the rest. To feel joy, you have to feel trust. These are people devoid of any real organic trust.

      So even at their apparent happiness, they are less happy than you were at the worst moment with them. You still had a soul that gave you the possibility of future joy. They’ll never have that.

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  5. I couldn’t agree with you more Carrie. The passages from the bible are compelling, however logic takes me back to the fact that bad and good people are a fact of life and have always existed, and clearly the bible recognizes that. Many say that the bible has predicted past and present events, and it seems has an eye on the future also? Is this possible or does religion simply divert us from the real truth? Is it just a clever tool for instilling morality into people who would otherwise compromise peace on earth? If you think how the world could be in our early stages, without religion, murder for example would be rife. I guess I’m saying that religion was useful starting out, but the bible already predicts its own end, because it already knew its own limitations. A bit like, on a much smaller scale, if you buy an iPhone 6 today, you automatically know that in 10 years time it will be unworkable.

    I would suggest that religion – cult, are similar in many ways. When you consider most of the major issues in the world today are caused by religions Vs religions, yet they all preach love, tolerance and acceptance, so it seems most people fail to follow those most fundamental of rules? The ‘higher power’ you mention is not beyond the realm of possibility. We still do not understand for example how they built the great pyramids, which they say would prove impossible even by today’s engineering standards, and we can only deduce that the only thing tough enough to cut those blocks were diamond tipped tools?

    With instability in many of the Muslim countries, who practice Islam, a religion of peace, look at where they are now, and the ill treatment their people suffer. Globalization, or eventually us heading towards a single race, or a One World Government, maybe the stuff of conspiracy theorists, but it could actually be a known and tested design to bring order to the world. How else would you cure a globe of all the fighting. Makes me wonder if Syria is really an accident at all? How to build a one world race? The fastest way to achieve it would be mass migration and immigration, and that’s happening right now! Religion, race and culture can be diluted and mixed into a melting pot, where the outcome would be less fighting and less war, maybe that is the next stage to ensure the survival of our planet? Perhaps prophesies were written because they already knew how to evolve a planet and what to expect from its challenges, and that religion would only work in the initial phases of our evolution. Very thought provoking isn’t it?

    It never ceases to amaze me that people so readily believe religion over other more logical explanations. Religion regularly depicts visitors from the sky. Angels perhaps? It seems far more logical that it was carbon based intelligent life, maybe even millions of years more advanced than mankind is today, which given how fast technology has moved in the last 50 years, I think is telling of the possibilities over several thousands or millions of years. Allegedly there are more planets in the universe than grains or sand on the earth (not quite sure how they calculated that but the number of planets out there is such a big number that our brains cannot comprehend its numerical value), it is so obvious that it cannot be just our earth teaming with life, when our own planets water can only have arrived from icy comets in space. So at the time we had dinosaurs, other planets possibly had already evolved with 1 in every 10,000 maybe reaching the stage of intelligent life. It therefore follows that it is entirely possible that our planet was nurtured by an advanced civilization, artifacts and ancient drawings seem to point interestingly in that direction. Maybe our civilization model was used on other planets before and since, who knows? What happens to us when we become truly aware?

    James showed his true colors didn’t he, wow that’s pretty low, but much easier now you face the truth head on. I wonder how much of that past holds you back, or if other forces are still at work. I blew the whistle on a large bank back in 2002, who forced my business to close through some very questionable tactics. It resulted in the loss of everything at that time, home, marriage, career and mind. After a few years of not working, whilst licking my wounds, I had to go back to work or my continual exposure of the truth would have, and very nearly did lead to my imprisonment. When I returned to work around 2007, I found it really difficult, and ever since have regularly moved from one company to the next, each time finding myself ostracized and discriminated in the work place, with less qualified people being promoted above me.

    The signs became all too obvious in the end. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong. A recent conversation with a government body, confirmed to me that it was no longer a possible figment of my imagination, and in fact whistle blowing had caused this continual degradation of my career and life. It gives me hope that many of the banks, certainly here in the UK, have been committing daylight robbery, and they are now being tied and fined under new legislation. Corporations have become too greedy for their own good, and the vast majority of mankind is paying the price. This all started for me because of being born into a family of narcissists. My mother and I were normal, so we were made to suffer. My entire working career has been blighted as a consequence. At times it’s been easy to lose hope, trying to rebuild a broken life only to have it smashed again in front of my eyes, never being unable to defend against it. I am a white man and I know exactly how discrimination feels.

    I read the stories on here, and I sometimes see people trapped in a mindset which does not allow them to move on. All victims here are very unfortunate to have had their lives ruined, especially if long term, but I also think it is easier for some to let their heart rule the head, but if they can change that pattern of behavior, they can instantly enjoy life again. I cannot escape from the torment, because it doesn’t matter where I go, I am branded. Most of the time it really pi**** me off, like what did I do to deserve all this, but then I think if I hang around long enough, I may find out everything I need to know and maybe even realize some justice, and it looks like that day is coming ever closer.

    This is a really good site you have built Carrie. You must often wonder if it is all worth it, and I would say definitely, YES. The amount of people you have helped, at your own cost, but by highlighting the actions of narcissists, you are degrading their ability to continue their acts, and that should be celebrated. We now begin to recognize the narc’s in our society very easily, and as the world is changing, these people will never realize ‘peace of mind’ in their own lifetimes. It is unfortunate that most of your readers will be, like me, in a financial dire straights right now, but that wont last forever. So good job Carrie, keep it going and I am certain one day you will be able to continue this work in more comfort than you have right now. You don’t have to be religious to have faith, but if it helps some people, then why not 😉

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    1. @Narcsareevil- If you do not believe God exists then, where do you base your standard of “good” and “bad”? How do you know narcs are “evil”? Where does our basis for morality come from?

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  6. Age 7….hmmm where do I start? Firstly I base Good on being kind and caring, civil, decent & loving. Bad is being mean, awful to others, wicked, violent, abusive etc…You seriously think your God has to spell out the differences? If you can’t answer that question without a god, then you are truly lost.

    Narcs are evil in the sense of how they treat human beings, why do you question their evilness, are you one of them? The next time you want to come on shouting me down like a bully, here’s a good idea, have a point? If you take the time to properly read my post, without pushing your predudices you might actually learn that I’m explaining a more logical situation. I have the benefit of not being brainwashed so I can judge our very being without preconceived ideas.

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  7. Whoa, calm down. You are seriously angry! I asked you three questions. Why would that anger you to the point of even insulting me? You didn’t even answer my questions. Instead you gave me your definition of good and bad instead of explaining the basis of morality and how we know what good and bad is; how we distinguish “right” from “wrong”.

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  8. I think we all have a reason to be angry, or why would we be on here. The way you asked the questions came across abrupt, and unclear, that’s all. I did also notice you shot someone down here for making a silly comment, so that probably didn’t help my thought process. What is the basis of morality then, I don’t properly understand the question? I would say that some need religion to be guided by morality, but that is not the case for all of us, how would you explain it? Do we at least agree that Narcs are evil?

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    1. I didn’t shoot anyone down. This person comes on Carrie’s (abused female) site demanding more “neutrality” that it is “too biased” and women are more subtle and cruel. How can you not understood my righteous anger towards that? My question posed to you was what are your thoughts/conclusions on how we deem what is “wrong” or “right”, “good” or “evil”? That judgement comes from something innate in our humanity, wouldn’t you agree? I have another question for you. What is your definition of the word religion? And YES a big, huge YES we can certainly agree that narcs are indeed and truly evil!

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      1. Hi Aggello7, lovely to hear from you again, that was a big gap of time in response, I’d almost forgotten our last encounter. I agree, why ask for neutrality? Who indeed cares? I have known all of my life right from wrong, good from bad, it’s instinctive, though I understand that a narcissist will create blurs with their own messy minds, but it’s a simple as night and day, can I be more specific? We can elaborate further, I just need scenarios?

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        1. Long gap, I apologize. Still recuperating and you were too defensive to converse with at the time. Was cleaning up and thought I would respond now that I was reminded, lol. Is this Narcsareevil? Who is Nial?

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          1. Hi, yes this is Nial, and fair enough I was defensive. In answer to your original question, I would say that if you can go through life, where the decisions you make are a positive contribution to others then that is good. The reason I say narcs are evil is because every decision they make has a negative impact on the people around them. I guess good and bad behaviour is a reflection of how we treat fellow humans (and possibly animals) but then if I squash an insect does that make me bad? I see what you mean it’s a real conundrum, so maybe looking at a scale of 1-10, where we would class 1 as a murderer and 10 as a saint, then probably very few of us are actually a 10, but narcs are on this variable scale also. Causing harm and stress towards anyone on a regular basis, just psychologically is maybe a 2-3, but then maybe they are also a 1, and simply don’t murder because logic tells them they can be incarcerated, and maybe narcs are worse still because they enjoy causing a long suffering to others rather than a quick death. I can sometimes achieve complete inner peace, and that puts me at a 10, and then a narc can come along and ruin everything, and I find myself wanting to do them damage, and I guess that puts me nearer a 1, but only towards that person, and over time I always slide back towards a 10, because my natural self state is to be caring towards others, helpful and considerate. So the question is, are people born the way they are and how much do others influence their position on the scale? A bit of both I think? Importantly, your scale is in the eye of the beholder, and your own memories will remind you where on the scale you may have been at particular points in your life. It’s fascinating when you think about it, and I’m sorry if I reached maybe a 5? When it came to you, it is a defence mechanism, and over the years my best form of defence is to attack, but it is momentary and after a lot of thought and understanding I hope my scale has improved 🙂 It is an interesting question you asked and I have reflected on my own judgement, which unfortunately has been damaged over time, but never intentionally vindictive. It’s so easy to get angry about circumstance around you that judgement becomes clouded.

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  9. Hi, I just wanted to let you know that I think I have been dating a Narc and was a sort-of Golden Child, but without any sort of stability whatsoever, like, not even feigned attempts for stability. My mother was bipolar and, undiagnosed, schizophrenic – I would walk into the kitchen and catch her in full trances, with finger gesticulation and lip movement, talking to something she called God which later killed her because this – being – told her that chemo and mastectomies were mutilating her body in “His eyes”.

    Because my parents both passed very early – my mother right before I graduated HS at 16, father at 14 – I started my own path of self-destruction to age 22, I’m almost 23 now. I had a huge realization and started facing my idealized self, my idealized view of my childhood and what I see looking back, taking responsibility for my own actions without shrouds of dishonesty. I think my viewpoint is very, very clear because it was somewhat of a ‘religious’ experience for me. That’s my only word for it.

    I have just started a blog called ‘The Real Perspective’ because I want other deeply damaged people, who wear the mask of normality, to know that, at a certain point, you are only how good you affect other people – those sums of your actions are what define your self-worth and that self-value has no point if it cannot be used in the economy of social relationships.

    At the moment, I am facing a lot of challenge, but I am going through a process of, kind of, rebirth of what I feel is valuable inside of my own sphere of influence.

    http://www.therealperspective.org

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  10. I seem to know a lot of narcs. not just dating either. Many friendships throughout the last 25 years somehow end up having some form of abuse in it. But its not just a little “argument” that we have. It turns into a BLOOD IN BLOOD OUT type deal. Which kinda sucks for me because even though I am pretty good at smart ass comments, when it comes down to ruining their life and causing more problems for them than they already have I just dont have the balls to do it. (unless i feel that they are hurting themselves and no one else seems to step in.)Even when they lie about everything they say about me to take the eyes off of themselves, I still have a sadness in my heart knowing i am going to miss them. I tend to forgive waaaaay to much I am told by many. But, to me i look at people as people. I am no one to judge someone else. And I have no idea the life that was walked in those shoes. I also believe that we are to forgive yet not forget. Im 37 years old and Ive learned way more about people and life in the last year than anytime before. One thing stayed the same throughout that time, no matter how evil someone has been to me, I have always forgiven them and never regretted knowing them. That doesn’t seem to happen for me much though. I have a lot of judges who seem to think that hurting me over and over and over is what gives them pleasure in life. I don’t know how they think like that because my heart breaks when they tell me that Iv’e hurt them. I have 2 little girls who are just like me. They love to love, help people and they feel happiness by making other people happy. I’m proud of them because coming from a split family is something i know nothing about. Their father does, but he masks his childhood well. But, he will also be the first to help another in need even if he cant afford to. Treat others the way you would like to be treated. And if they just keep hurting you, love yourself enough to not be vengeful and walk away peacefully. Don’t go away mad, just go away.

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  11. Knowledge is power! I just ended my second relationship with a narcissist. I was married for three years to one, and we’ve been divorced for almost 9 years. At that time, I knew nothing about Narcissistic Personality Disorder and had no idea what I was going through. About 1-1/2 after the abuse started, I stumbled upon some websites and forums and discovered I was married to a full-blown, textbook narcissist! After three separations, I finally was able to stay away for good–but not without the battering of the my self-esteem and confidence. Breaking away from the addictive nature of this relationship was the hardest thing I’ve ever done…but I made it and THRIVED! Fast forward to six months ago. I met and began dating a man who, much like my ex-husband, immediately showered me with adoration, gifts, compliments and his time. Within 2 or 3 weeks of meeting, he declared his love for me and even talked about marriage (though I made it clear I had no interest in marrying him or anyone else). My radar was immediately up, but I didn’t want to unfairly label him as a narcissist without other evidence. As the relationship progressed, he continued to treat me wonderfully, but it seemed he might be a liar. The thing is, the things he lied about were just dumb–served no purpose at all. I also noticed that he always touted himself as the best, an expert in everything…but I rarely saw that expertise manifested. But…he continued to treat me wonderfully. (He gave me money–though I didn’t need it from him, he helped with work around my house, he helped with my car, and many other things.) I also noted, though, that he told me terrible things about his ex-wife–she supposedly cheated on him, stole money from him, pretended to be pregnant by another man just to hurt him, kept him from spending time with his children, and on and on. I never ignored these red flags, just wasn’t yet sure what to do with him–as we were still in the idealization phase. Another flag for me–he had an inordinate number of selfies posted on Facebook. No context, no purpose–just tons of pictures of himself, as if he were a model or celebrity. Bizarre for sure. Again, just not sure what to do with it–just tucked it away. Because I had dealt with a narcissist, I knew that, if he indeed was one, devaluing was coming and ultimately the discard. We made it about five months in, and the devaluing began–suddenly, without warning or provocation. He started distancing himself, lying more and engaging in passive-aggressive behaviors. I very quickly put all the pieces together, and ended the relationship within days of the devalue. Granted, he still had things at my home, so I led him to believe for two weeks that I would be open to a conversation to discuss our problems and whether we the relationship was salvageable. On the day he came to get his things, we sat and had the most ridiculous circular conversation–basically him blaming and accusing me. I calmly listened and responded, explaining that I had done nothing to him, he knows I’d done nothing, so fixing the relationship was totally his responsibility. He finally got angry (inexplicably), grabbed his things, jumped in his truck and drove off. Within five minutes, I’d blocked his phone number and emails, and deleted him and blocked him on Facebook. I had about two days of semi-sadness, but was, by and large, relieved and grateful that I didn’t allow myself to remain in the devalue/discard phase…and I felt like I came out relatively unscathed. (Side note: I believe he stole a watch from me, though I can’t prove it. However, I’d held on to a gift card he’d given me early on in the relationship and was able to buy myself an even nicer one. Last laugh for me.) Bottom line, while I do find myself questioning why I seem to draw these type of men into my life, I am immensely thankful that I am much better aware of the signs and was able to escape. Knowledge truly is power.

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    1. Brilliant Sam. You have obviously got them sussed. Quite shocking though isn’t it just how many of them are about. I wonder what percentage of society they are?

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      1. I wonder. Seems I read somewhere an estimate of 17%. I’ve had two clear ones in my life, and one or two more that I’ve questioned. Feel like they’re drawn to me like moths to a flame.

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    2. Sam, congratulations on seeing the signs and getting out. Perhaps next time you will trust your gut even earlier.
      I say next time; nor because I think you attract narcissists but because they are every where. Meeting them in inevitable,whether we listen to our gut instincts and set healthy boundaries is the key to whether we get hurt by them.

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