Category Archives: Apologies – does a narcissist ever apologize

The Tools Of A Narcissist

Imagine if you will; you’ve been on your own for almost a year, or maybe it’s even been a couple of years; however long it’s been since you left the narcissist who feasted on your heart and you are finally whole.

You’ve done alot of hard work putting the pieces of your life together, you have found a new you under all the pain and confusion. You are feeling stronger and you’ve set new healthy boundaries, no man is ever going to have that control over you again.

You’ve been dating, nothing too serious and you doubt you will ever meet another man who will stir up the passion you had with the narcissist. But that’s ok because it was that passion that brought you to your knees and made you sacrifice everything.

Life is ok and you are ok with just ok. No passion, but no emotional roller coaster either.

Then, the phone rings. You check call display, it’s become a habit, he hasn’t called in months, a year? You used to count the hours, days, since you last talked to him but it’s been so long you’ve lost count. Your heart stops, it’s him. You stare at the phone, your mind races; you wonder why he’s calling now, what could he possibly say now, remember; “curiosity killed the cat”.

Oh but damn, it’s so hard to put that phone down and walk away. You’re stronger now, you just want to see what he has to say, you think this is your chance to tell him what you really think of him, you’re on to his games, he won’t be able to suck you back into his web of bullshit this time. You know what you are dealing with this time. And……you answer.

Hello?

Him in his soft, I couldn’t hurt a fly, soaked in honey voice,”Baby, I was afraid you wouldn’t answer. I don’t know if I should call or not, I just wanted to hear your voice. I need to know if you are ok.”

You, “You shouldn’t have called.”

Him, “Sorry. But it is really good to hear your voice.” he laughs nervously. “Are you doing ok?”

You’re forcing yourself to not smile. (He said it was good to hear your voice!! Heart get out of my throat) “I am doing good, no thanks to you! You really hurt me, left me with nothing but your shit and bills to clean up.”

Him in an even softer voice, “I know, and I am SO sorry. I will pay you back, that’s partly why I am calling. I’m finally making some decent money and you’re the first person I felt guilty about, I HAVE to try to make things right. I can’t live with myself knowing I hurt you……..I know I didn’t tell you enough, but you are the only woman I’ve ever loved.”

You are thrown off guard. He just admitted he did you wrong, he just basically apologized, he never admitted fault before! What’s going on?

He continues, “Look, I know you have every reason to not believe me and I don’t expect anything from you. I don’t want to disrupt your life, I know I screwed it up and I have to live with my mistakes and the fact that it’s my fault I lost the only woman who ever really loved me and understood me, my soul mate. I just want the opportunity to at least pay you back.”

You, “I guess that would be ok. But I am seeing someone and have a new life now.”

Him, “I understand. You have found someone else. As long as you are happy, you deserve to be happy. I hope he treats you like the queen you are.”

You, “He’s a nice guy.”

Him, “Can I call you again?”

You, “I guess.”

Him with a sigh of relief, “Thank you Babe, that’s all I can ask of you. Thank you!”

You, “No biggie”. You are struggling to keep calm and sound indifferent but your mind is screaming, “What the hell is going on??!”

You, “Ok, well I should probably go.”

Him, “of course. I’m sorry to babble. I’ve missed you.”

You, “I used to miss you too.”

Him, “Babe?.”

You, “Yeah.”

Him, “There’s a song that always makes me think of you, Do You Drink About Me, just wanted you to know, it’s probably silly, forget I said anything. Sorry. I’ll let you go.” And in a barely audible whisper you think you hear him say, “I love you….”

*Click*

You, “Alexa? Play  Do You Drink About Me.

DON’T GO DOWN THAT RABBIT HOLE!!!

He has accomplished exactly what he set out to do. 

1. Get you thinking about him, wondering why he called now, what does he want, did he really say “I love you”, is he really sorry, has he changed??!!

2. Make you doubt yourself. 

3. Remind you that it wasn’t all bad.

4. Remind you of the passion and connection you had in the beginning.

5. Open the door, even a crack so he can slither back into your life.

And slither he will, just like the snake that he is. Once he is back in your life it won’t take long before you will be right back where you were. 

He’ll leave you alone for a few days, maybe send a text saying how good it was to hear your voice.

Then the next day, another text. “Have you listened to our song yet? I just heard it and thought of you.” (Notice now it is our song)

That night, “Still drinking of you. Goodnight Babe. Sweet dreams. I’ll be dreaming of you.”

Oh you would have to be a hard hearted Hannah to not start to weaken.

This is why No Contact is so vitally important. 

My next post. What To Do When The Narcissist Says All The Right Things.

 

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Does Anger Management Work For A Narcissist?

One of the search terms on my blog today was, “Does anger management work for a narcissist?

If the person asking the question had researched narcissists they would know nothing cures a narcissist, their brains are not formed like a normal brain and they don’t have the capability to feel empathy and they don’t think anything is wrong with them.

In the rare cases where a narcissist isn’t successful in getting the victim to drop the domestic abuse charges and they do make it to court it is quite common for the judge to sentence the narcissist to take anger management classes.

A few years ago I had a class with a fellow who taught anger management groups for men charged with domestic abuse and I asked him how successful the classes were. Like did the classes actually work? Personally I think most abusive husbands are narcissists, I don’t know that they all are and maybe for some it does work. But there are a few facts that make me think it is highly unlikely.

He told me he had absolutely no idea if the classes worked because there was no follow-up. He said the guys told him they were doing better but he admitted he had no was of knowing for sure that they didn’t go home after the class and beat their partner. If a narcissist feels it is the only way to get the woman to come back to him he will promise anything and go through the motions. My ex went several years without hitting me when I had kicked him out and kept him at a distance. Once he had me convinced he had changed and I went back to him the abuse started again and was 10 times worse.

The other problem with anger management not stopping the abuse is; it has absolutely nothing to do with anger. Domestic abuse is never just physical abuse, no woman would stay if it was only physical, long before the abuser hits a woman he has emotionally, mentally and often times financially or sexually abused her. He usually won’t get physical until he is sure he has her sufficiently beaten down emotionally first.

He may use anger as an excuse for abusing the woman, she made him do it by pissing him off. If only she wouldn’t make him so angry by pushing his buttons, he wouldn’t have to beat her. They can control their anger just fine in front of other people. You can be out and having a good time and the minute you are in private he is angry and looking for a fight. No matter how hard you try to avoid an argument he is like a dog with a bone and won’t let up.

I can remember on my birthday one time, he had forgotten my birthday and I had said something about him forgetting. He didn’t say anything at the time and after work he told me to meet him at his work and he would take me out for supper. I was determined to not argue on my birthday. At his work he was the epitome of the loving husband, telling everyone he had forgotten my birthday and was going to try to make it up to me by taking me out for supper. I was thrilled and looking forward to a nice night out.

We walked out the door and I said, “So, are we taking you truck or my car? Or should I meet you there?”

Him, “What are you talking about?”

Me, “Dinner. Do you want to meet there or ride together?”

Him, looking totally annoyed, “What the fuck are you talking about?, dinner? I’m going to the race track. I don’t know what you are doing.”

Me, “I wouldn’t mind going to the track.”

“No, just go home.”

Me, “But you said you were taking me out for my birthday.”

Him, “I’m broke, do you have money for dinner?”

Me, “Yeah, I do. I’ll buy us dinner.”

Him as he got in his truck, “Just go home.”

So I went and bought myself a bottle of wine and went home, determined I was not going to fight on my birthday.

I putzed in my garden until it got too dark to see and then went inside. He came home with a bottle of Rye and case of beer for himself and a carton of smokes and then proceeded to tell me how selfish I was to buy myself a bottle of wine. I said, “Please, not on my birthday.” But he would not let up and kept at me about me being so selfish and I needed to get out and support myself so I knew what it was like (I was in my 40’s and worked my whole life, raised my son on my own, it didn’t even make sense).

He would not let me defend myself and walked out of the house to go to the shop, I grabbed his arm and reached up to touch his face. I was going to say, “I love you. Please lets not fight.” But I never got it out. Next thing I know my head is hitting the cupboard behind me and I woke up on the floor with him straddling me, holding my hands above my head with one hand and his other made into a fist ready to hit me again.

I said, “Go ahead, hit me again, does it make you feel like a man?”

He stormed out to the shop.

It had nothing to do with anger, it was control, it was wanting to ruin my birthday, it was whittling away at my self esteem and keeping me off balance; but it was not that he lost his temper and hit me in a fit of rage. He had controlled his anger just fine at his work, he knew he wasn’t taking me for dinner when we were there.

A narcissist can be in the middle of beating his wife if someone rings the doorbell he can answer the door and be Mr Congeniality like the flip of a switch. He could control his anger amazingly well with everyone else. Guys would rip him off for hundred of dollars and he wouldn’t do or say anything. I would be angry for him and give people shit in his defense because he would never stand up for himself to a man.

If someone has an anger management problem it shouldn’t be selective; if they can control their anger with a man they can control it with their partner.

So, does anger management work? My guess is no. BUT even IF the narcissist stopped hitting you I know when I was with my ex, it wasn’t the physical abuse that left the deepest scars; it was the emotional abuse, the porn, cheating, controlling the money, where I went, disabling my truck and destroying my business, the rejection, the emotional roller ride from hell.

 

Comment Quoting Me To Me

I received this comment on the Support Forum of my blog and wanted to share it with those who might not see it because it is so important.

The narcissist has an uncanny ability to sense when the victim is just getting their feet under themselves and feeling they will survive. All of a sudden the narcissist pops back into their life full of promises and apologies. The victim is healed enough to think they can “just be friends”, will be strong enough to run at the first sign of trouble and they get sucked into the rabbit hole again.

Here is the comment:

“The fact that I don’t give a shit about him over shadows every relationship he will ever be in; he can’t figure out why or how I managed to survive” What words!! Carrie wrote as quoted in here from her blogs… this is me now!! .. He can’t figure out how I managed to survive, hes going crazy trying to work it out, win me over again, bordering on stalking and then I went on to read this Carrie had written in her blogs…

“So remember this when the narc comes crawling back in a year or 15 years; it has nothing to do with you, nothing!! except for the fact that he views you as a possession that he can lay claim to any old time he wants. It has nothing to do with him loving you, needing your special supply, realizing how good he had it, or even that things have gone sour with the new supply. It only has to do with his uncontrollable need to control.”

Sorry for requoting you Carrie I just wanted to tell everyone that there is hope and what wisdom I have got from these words which have most probably saved my life thank you xx

Valentine’s Day Post 3 Days Late

I honestly started this post in plenty of time to publish it before Valentine’s Day but my health has not been great this winter and there are times I don’t get off the couch all day because I can’t sit without severe pain in my back. So here it is, better late than never I suppose.

Some of you are obsessing about all the wonderfully romantic things you envision your ex doing for his new “soul mate”, others are still with the narcissist and have either been disappointed yet again because you didn’t get so much as a card or he didn’t even come home. Let’s face it, no one can ruin a special occasion like a narcissist!

Then there are those of you who feel they have wasted the best years of their life, that it is so unfair that he has moved on to a new love while you are still feeling so broken and wondering if you can ever trust again, ever love again.

Let’s get one thing straight right off the bat,

  • He has NOT gone on to love again……… he never loved you, he has never loved anyone, not you, not the women before you and not the women who will come after you. He is incapable of love, he is only capable of acting like he is in love in order to hook his victims.

The second thing we need to discuss is the trust issue

You do not have to learn to trust men again, that really was not the problem. If you insist on making it the problem you will never be able to relax and enjoy a healthy relationship. As much as I do not believe in victim blaming there comes a point when we have to take responsibility for our own happiness. If we throw our hands in the air and say, “He lied to me! what could I do? what if the next man lies to me? ” we are forever at the mercy of every asshole that comes our way.

Sure there are tell tale signs of a narcissist but many women don’t seem to learn that a narcissist is always nice in the beginning, he always presents himself as your soul mate and always falls madly in love and can’t get enough of you, so they get involved with narcissist after narcissist, always lamenting the same thing;

“He was so into me, I was the best most perfect woman he had ever met, I didn’t chase him, I told him I had been hurt in the past and honesty was important to me and he lied!! How could he hurt me knowing I had been hurt in the past?”

Things you can do to avoid getting hurt by another narcissist.

Please note – no one is a narcissist magnet, narcissists are everywhere and everyone the narcissist meets is assessed on whether they are of some use or value to him/her. Narcissists do not confine their abuse to romantic partners, and because they morph into whatever the woman wants, they do not have a “type” they are attracted to. (I always felt special, that he would never find a woman more well suited to him, until he left his Plenty of Fish account open on my laptop and I read the profiles of the women he had on his “Favorites List”.  I couldn’t understand why he would pursue women he had nothing in common with. I now know why.)

When I first left my ex it seemed I was meeting narcissists at every corner, they were everywhere! For one thing you are super aware and sensitive in the beginning and you are one of the “walking wounded”, narcissists zero in on the wounded and will present themselves as your knight in shining armor; that is why it is best to not even think about dating for a couple of years. If the thought of not dating for a couple of years gives you a panic attack, for sure you should not be dating!! You have put far too much importance on being part of a couple.

  1. Stop doing things because you are afraid that if you don’t, he will find someone else. This includes sleeping with him too soon but also little compromises that tell him you don’t respect yourself so why should he.
  2. When you make the man that important to you, you immediately put yourself at a disadvantage and him in control of the relationship and your happiness.
  3. Stop viewing every guy you date in terms of “Is this the one?” So many women are so concerned with finding someone to love them that they totally ignore that the guy is nothing like a man they would be happy with long term. They immediately try to be the woman he wants instead of just being themselves and seeing if there is a true connection there.
  4. Stop falling into bed with the guy on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd date; you may think you can handle casual sex but men and women are not made the same. There is a natural chemical reaction when a woman has sex, the act of having sex releases chemicals in the woman that cause her to become more forgiving, less cautious and more trusting. Men have sex and go to sleep, wake up and think, “I had sex” the woman wakes up and wonders if he will call her again, how to let him know she likes him without appearing too needy, and worries about being rejected. If you do fall into bed with him, don’t beat yourself up, realize you are going to feel more needy for a while and wait it out, take a step back and let yourself feel the feelings without acting on them.
  5. So how do we protect ourselves? Stop giving trust to people who haven’t earned it. We are so quick to trust and then wait to see if he gives us reason to not trust him. That is backwards, it is crazy to blindly trust someone we don’t know, hold back, let him prove he is trustworthy. “But I don’t want to get hurt.” You can not be hurt if you let things play out in their own time. You may be disappointed to find out he is not what he say he is but you will not be devastated because you had put all your trust in him and he abused it. To expect someone to earn your trust is not selfish, it is smart.
  6. When I started dating my ex I made the conscious decision that I was just going to have sex with him. (I didn’t know about the chemical thing back then and really, I was in my 40’s and a big girl, why couldn’t I have casual sex? He was so damn sexy! but I was not that into him other than that at first). I had never liked a guy who was too clingy or demanding of my time but I had been told by my mother, girlfriends, and some guys that I was too independent and didn’t give “nice guys” a chance, so when my ex started calling too many times a day I didn’t dump him like my stomach wanted me too.
    The first real date we had I met him at his place and he barely let me get through the door before he was taking my clothes off and leading me into the bedroom. I quite literally felt like walking out and told him so, in the past I would have walked out but I wanted to be nice. My gut kept telling me to just walk away from him, long before anything ever really went wrong or before he ever got strange.  We lived an hour apart and I didn’t want an “every night” relationship. In the past I hadn’t had an ‘in your back pocket” relationship, I had dated guys from out of town that I saw every weekend, or local guys who I saw on the weekends but week nights were reserved for my son, I worked full time, I had to get home to make supper, clean house, spend time with my kid and when my ex called every night and wanted me to go down to his place I would decline but he would pressure me, have some excuse why I needed to come “just this once”. and I allowed him to pressure me into seeing him.
    He was so into me, cried when he said he loved me, I didn’t want to hurt his feelings.
    But almost right from the first few dates I felt like pulling away and I allowed myself to be manipulated.
  7. In a normal relationship there are periods of adjustment, traits or habits that surface that may bother one or the other person. This is the getting to know each other stage, the time when you decide whether this is actually a person worth investing in. Let’s be realistic here, you can be extremely attracted to someone right from day one but we are ALL on our best behavior when we first meet someone, you are, I am, we all are; the narcissist is a totally different person! In a normal relationship you may eventually discover that you are just not a good match and go your separate ways. It may be the other person’s choice and you may get hurt feelings but you will survive and go on to love again. Not every one you love is going to love you back, that does not make them a narcissist!

The way to protect yourself is to remain in the here and now, believe your gut when it tells you something is not right, you don’t have to make a decision right away to commit to  him or to leave him, just keep your feet on the ground and don’t allow yourself to drift into fantasyland. He is not prince charming and you are not going to cure him with your magical love.

I did date a narcissist the first (and only) time I have dated since leaving my ex. I did what most victims of a narc do when they start to date again, I told the new guy how badly I had been hurt, how I wanted to take it slow, how I needed honesty, etc and he was SO understanding and thought I was so strong, he cooked me lovely dinners, he did wonderful things for me, he loved everything about me, I got a text every night from him saying good night and every morning I got a “have a great day, Babe.” text and my stomach was screaming to be careful. But I didn’t know if I was just being too sensitive, reading things into it that weren’t there, being paranoid, I enjoyed the attention but I was feeling pressured. I just kept a mental note of things that didn’t sit right with me and I kept my head in reality, took my time and guess what? It didn’t take long and one day I arrived unannounced at his place to find a woman there. I had suspected and was proven right. I handed her the key to his place and said, “You’ll be needing this.” and I walked out.

I did tell him what I thought of him a few days later and to be honest I shed a few tears. But it was only a few, and only for one day and I was over it. I had not invested in the relationship, not in a big way and it was so much easier to walk away, I was not shattered by it. In fact, the experience showed me that my gut instincts could be trusted and I was capable of detecting a narcissist and protecting myself and my heart.

The Psychopath’s Uncontrollable Need to Control

I received this message the other day.

“Hi, I’ve never commented but this blog has really helped me come to terms w my own abusive relationship. I’m still pretty traumatized and don’t really know how to help myself but I’m learning all I can about cluster b disorders…I frequent a site called psychopath free and I just read a new member story, a male named jimmyc1963, from about one week ago. Carrie, I’m almost positive it is your ex. There are so many details about you, your son, references to trucks and hauling scrap metal…plus he gives himself away by saying you’re the narc and have created a blog and have a lot of followers…it’s disturbing and I thought u should know. I’ve benefitted greatly from this blog and its infuriating to have your abuser paint himself as the victim. I’ve been there so many times…thank u for all the love and compassion u show 💜”

Of course I can’t possibly know what James is thinking, for one very obvious reason; he is crazy and I am not. But if I take all I have learned about psychopath’s and narcissist, I can come pretty close to where his head is at.

While with James he had managed to get me totally in his control. When he found his new supply I was a grovelling, begging, fool, pleading with him to not leave me and he thoroughly enjoyed telling me I was worthless, it was all my fault and I didn’t deserve to live because no man would ever want me. I am sure he thought I would either kill myself or curl up in a corner waiting and praying he graced me with his presence again.

He took his sweet time, a full year but he did pop back into my life, immediately after proposing to his new victim. With her secured he was free to come back to me and try to suck me back into his toxic web, he was ready to introduce triangulation into his new relationship. After all, he couldn’t let her get too comfortable now that they were engaged. He needed reassurance he was still her priority and what better way to do that than instill jealousy and insecurity. He could play me against her and her against me; Narcissist just love, love LOVE triangulation; nothing screams “YOU ARE THE MAN!!’ quite like two women vying for your attention and love.

He gave me the same speech as he had the last 3 times he begged his way back into my life (they are so oblivious to how a person’s emotions work and lazy, that they don’t even think about the fact that they are using the same script on the same person over and over again. If it worked once it will work again). I was dumb when he showed up, I listened to his spiel and it set me back in my recovery but I did not succumb to it this time. Thank the good Lord!!

He took all the blame, said I had done nothing wrong and it was him and he was so sorry. He loved me, didn’t I know that? Didn’t he tell me? (heard it all before). When I didn’t believe him he did a complete 180 and it was my own fault for him hurting me because I took him back and when that didn’t work he just started slandering me and trying to destroy my life.

Once a psychopath or narcissist has “owned a person; they expect that person to be waiting for the narc to need them again, the victim is not supposed to go on with their life.

The other thing I have done to piss James off is I have exposed him for what he is. I know what he is and he can no longer put doubt in my mind. In the past all he had to do was say he loved me and he didn’t do what I thought he did and I would back down, doubt myself, and he would be back in control. He can no longer do that and if there is anything a narc hates it is not being able to control the victim.

If there is one thing a narc hates, it is being exposed for what they are, after all their whole life is a very delicate, intricately woven web of deceit; someone going on the internet and telling the world what he is could destroy his web. He is too self absorbed to realize that no one would ever find my blog unless he told them about it. A normal person who was so happily involved with their soul mate would laugh at my blog and go on with their life, knowing it would never affect them and the worst thing they could do is to advertise it everyone they know. Just as I ignored his blog about me and I am ignoring his comments on Psychopath Free, a site, by the way; I consider to be one of the best blogs on psychopaths. The only thing I did do was to notify admin on the site of his username and that he is a psychopath and I am afraid some unsuspecting victim of a psychopath might fall in love with him.

(On a side note* I find it very interesting that people who don’t like what I have to say follow my blog. If you don’t like what I write, even if it is about you; especially if it is about you; STOP reading it!!)

So anyway, we have determined he is pissed off about losing control, being exposed, and not being able to pull the wool over my eyes any more, there is one thing left that would eat away at him like a cancer; I have over 2100 followers and close to 2 million hits. THAT would irk him to no end. How dare I get attention and a bit of notoriety that doesn’t benefit him. He has had blogs for 10 years and never got even one follower, he would HATE that I have some popularity and people believe me. In his mind it is the ultimate defiance on my part and it is glaring proof he did not do his job; he did not destroy me, I did not kill myself, I am not laying in a puddle waiting for him to give me some crumbs of my dignity back. He under estimated my back bone and strength and no narcissist wants to admit that.

The fact that I don’t give a shit about him over shadows every relationship he will ever be in; he can’t figure out why or how I managed to survive. He worked years trying to destroy me……. he won’t rest until he finishes the job he started. He can’t move on, it has been over 5 years and all he can see is; I am getting attention and he isn’t; he did his best and I am not destroyed. His last ex rank herself to death at least; I have a whole lot of nerve not playing by his rules.

Once they set their sites on a person, they become obsessed with winning that person over. I remember when James would meet a new friend, he would obsess with them, they became the expert on everything, he called them a couple of times a day. It was kinda creepy, like he was gay or something because he treated male friends much like he treated me when we started dating. All of a sudden the new friend took precedence over everything else. I always knew when he had a new woman in his sites because he couldn’t help but obsess about them, talk about them, stalk them on the internet, brag about them and leave pictures where I could find them.

When we got back together the last time he had several woman on the hook; (all the while promising me total fidelity) he would be with me and constantly on his phone. I found messenger conversations between him and some woman who had gone away with her girl friends for New Years Eve. It was so obvious by his messages that he was terribly jealous and concerned she might hook up with some guy while she was partying. He found his ex from 15 years prior and tried to pull her back into his web and I found the messages between them and it was the same thing; he was so concerned about what she was doing and yet he was with me and telling me I was all the woman he would ever need. When he was trucking he had at least 4 of us on the line. He would call each of us every night and he wrote in his blog that Marita was having a male friend stay over night and she had promised James she wouldn’t sleep with him and James was saying, “She had better not!” yet he was on his way to be with me.

It doesn’t make sense to a normal person, but to a narcissist it doesn’t have to make sense; they just have to be getting all the attention all the time; what is fair makes absolutely no difference to them.

So remember this when the narc comes crawling back in a year or 15 years; it has nothing to do with you, nothing!! except for the fact that he views you as a possession that he can lay claim to any old time he wants. It has nothing to do with him loving you, needing your special supply, realizing how good he had it, or even that things have gone sour with the new supply. It only has to do with his uncontrollable need to control.

 

The One Answer To All Your Questions About The Narcissist

I received a comment today on the “Ending the Relationship With a Narcissist” post that is SO important I am giving it it’s own post. It is a message I have tried to drum into victim’s heads for almost 5 years and still victim’s think they will be different, it won’t happen to them, their situation is different, their narcissist really means it, their narcissist has seen the light and they are going to get their happily ever after. Happily ever after does not exist with a narcissist, no matter how many years go by, how many tears he sheds, or how strongly he professes his love and devotion. It is NEVER safe to have contact with a narcissist, EVER!!

This story answers all the top questions about narcissists

Do they ever change?

Do they ever apologize?

Can they love?

Are they ever faithful?

Why do they lie?

Do they know what they are doing?

Do they care?

This is the comment from Nemo,

“Guys, I’m writing this as a warning to never, ever be in contact with them again no matter how many years later. I’ve already told some of my story here but basically I first got involved with J when I was 17 and he was 20. I was just a kid, naive. I know now that he was a narcissist but then I was just so crazy about him I forgave him anything. He would dump me for another woman every six months or so, (always after building the romance up to the max) then come running back within a couple of weeks and I would always take him back because by then my whole life was focussed around him and I felt that if I wasn’t “his girlfriend” I would simply vanish into thin air, I had no sense of self or self esteem, all I had to do was wait and the pattern would repeat, telling myself if I just got it right next time he would stay.. He dumped me for a 15 year old (he was 24 by then) just before I went to university after 18 blissful months together with no dramas. It was a total shock but he kept running back, I found out he had no less than four other girls on the go, we will call them D, B, M and E. Well he met his match with D (was) was even more of a narc than him and tricked him into marriage and made his life very miserable, actually turned him into a victim himself. At last I was able to let go and moved to the other side of the world because I couldn’t bear to be in the same country as them playing “happy families”.

Fast forward 22 years to 2007 and a friend was using a yahoo group to set up a college reunion. Who should suddenly contact me again through this but J. Married to D for the second time (she had dumped him several times for other guys and had a string of failed marriages behind her, but had hoovered him back in) and we got back in touch. For the last 8 years we have been great friends, would meet up every couple of years when I went back to the old country and kept in constant contact. Yes we reminisced about the “old days” but I was happily married and it was just a friendship to me, though he was always saying how he still loved me, what a bitch D was, blah blah blah.

Fast forward again to 2015 and he has separated with D and moved in as a lodger with my best friend (we all knew each other from back then) so, when I went back of course he was at her house, where I spend most of my time on my “home” visits.

Well…by this time my home life wasn’t what it had been and yep, he sucked me in again with a week of undying love etc etc etc. Feeling lonely and vulnerable, I fell for it, thinking that after 8 years of happy friendship we were moving into a new phase. What could possibly go wrong? He’d spent 8 years leading up to this point. And things went much too far.

Guess what..after I came back here with a head full of plans to move back and madly in love again, his twice weekly texts stopped instantly. He went completely silent and my best friend said he never even mentioned my name at home. For six weeks I wondered what the hell was going on, tried texting, emailing, phoning; silence. I was in absolute hell. At a party that I had organised when I was there and we had gone to as a couple I saw him chatting to his old flame B (who I hadn’t invited) before coming back to me and filling my head with love and affection. I found out yesterday through another mutual friend that he has been going back out with B since just after I left. He wasn’t even going to tell me, I only knew because my friend said she had seen them, asked B what the hell was going on and did I know and B said “Oh he’s going to dump her in an email” I am so angry that they would have been sitting around discussing me while I had no idea what was going on!

Well B has been his bit on the side on and off for years but now she has dumped her husband and moved out with her kids to set up a flat with J. Within just a few weeks. He is still married to D who doesn’t want to let her supply go out of her control and there will be a world of hurt. B will get dumped for sure and he will try to run back to me.

I know I am well out of it but at the moment the pain I feel is excruciating. And I miss his platonic friendship, we knew each other so well, and never wanted to lose that. He never did get the chance to “dump me in an email” because I pre-empted it and told him not to bother as I knew what he was going to say and how cruel he was to let me find out by parading her around in front of friends that they knew would tell me. I’ve told him in no uncertain terms to F off and now I feel like that little teenager again sobbing over her broken heart instead of a strong independant 52 year old woman.

Moral of the story is, they NEVER change and will prey on you for years if they have to for the chance to build you up and then hurl you off the cliff again.”

My reply to Nemo:

Nemo, I am so sorry you had to learn this painful lesson but thank you so much for sharing it; I am sure you are saving many people from making the same mistake you, and I made. I too got sucked in to giving it another try, not 20+ years later mind you, but I witnessed my ex trying to do it to his ex’s and I went back after months of no contact because he seemed to sincere, and thought “Why would he bother if he didn’t mean it?”

There are a few things about your story I wanted to point out that you may not have realized. 

  1. You say that D is a narcissist and J met his match with her. If I had a $100 I would bet it all on the fact that she is no more a narcissist than you are. Narcissists are famous for accusing their victims of exactly the same things they themselves do. I bet that D is as much a victim as you or I and that if she is acting crazy and refusing to let him go it is because of the abuse she has suffered at his hands. I bet it was him that sucked her back into the web and she has been a victim of his infidelity and gas lighting all this time. 
  2. He wanted you to find out through the grapevine that he was with B because he wanted to cause the most pain.
  3. You thought you knew him so well, you thought you had this great friendship all these years and that you both valued this friendship. It was all a lie, you don’t know him at all, it has all been an act that he put on to suck you in. He is a chameleon who changes his colours to suit whichever victim he is sucking in at the time. All you women are the same in his mind, all interchangeable, he just morphs into the man of each woman’s dreams and tells them what they need to hear. My ex also had 4-6 women on the hook at the same time for years, unbeknownst to me; telling each of us what we needed to hear to believe he loved us and only us. Nothing makes them feel more alive and powerful than being able to suck in numerous woman at the same time. 

You are right, B will be discarded just like all the rest and she will suffer just like all the rest and J will be patting himself on the back because he destroyed another marriage. Isn’t he powerful?! and all the while he will be claiming to be the victim of yet another psycho bitch who won’t let him go.

I am sorry your marriage was destroyed, I am sorry you got sucked in, but you will survive and you will find happiness again; especially if you do the work necessary to learn to love yourself and appreciate the beautiful woman you are and that you don’t need a man to make you feel valuable and loveable.  

To everyone reading this post.

Nemo’s story is not that rare, I have heard from victims who have done this dance with the narcissist their whole lives, 20+ years. Women who have ruined their marriages after years of no contact because the narcissist came waltzing into their lives professing his undying love. That is why taking time to heal properly and fully AND no contact, ever!! is so important!!

You just do not realize how sick and twisted these people are!! Take it from people who have been there, you don’t have to experience it yourself to learn that these soul vampires are evil and never ever change! ever!! You MUST get it through your head that, they do not make sense and they do not have normal emotions and you MUST stop assigning them normal emotions and assuming they feel a certain way because that is they way they are acting. They are academy award winning actors who can pass lie detector tests, never forget that, never relax around them, never assume you are immune to their manipulation.

Once you have been involved with a narcissist, in his mind you are forever his possession to use and abuse as he sees fit, even 20+ years later. James kept all his ex’s on the line, he might not contact them for years and then out of the blue he would call and profess his undying love just to see if he could. Why? who cares? what matters is; you knowing he will do it and not swallowing the poison.

No one has ever come in here and said that years later the narcissist came back a changed man. I can only assume if it had ever happened they would be spreading the word that narcissist can change and they had found happiness. I know if it happened to me I would tell everyone!! No one is shouting off the roof tops because it just does not happen!!

They can wait years! they will tell you that they have pined away for you all those years and you are the only woman they ever loved, all the while telling 4 other women the same thing. Yes for 8 years Nemo had a “friendship” with her ex narc but how would she have known what he was doing, she only knew what he was telling her? I have read the letters James sent to the women he string along. They were all the same, except the name at the top was different ( no sorry, that wasn’t even different because he always called everyone “Babe”, he would change a few pertinent details, add a child if need be, but the main message in every single one was;

The victim is the love of his life

They are the only woman they will ever love and have waited all these years for them

He is willing to wait however long it takes for them to realize how much he loves them and want to settle down forever with him. (He has waited this long, he can wait forever to be with her)

The only difference was with the one in Africa, with her he was promising to bring her to Canada and make her his wife. Well actually he never SAID it in those exact words. His words were, he was still working on the paperwork to get her brought over to canada (which of course he was not) and he could not wait for the day he looked into his bride’s eyes and said “I do”. He never said who the bride was going to be so he really wasn’t lying. It’s not his fault if she assumed he meant her.

Every single one of his letters talked about how he had tried to make it work with me but the feelings just weren’t there any more and what a bitch I was and how I just wouldn’t let him go but he was done and didn’t love me any more.

He had just found the mother of his son after 15 years of her being no contact and he told her he had waited all that time for her and only loved her the whole time, but he had been with me for 9 of those 15 years. Did it hurt to read that? Cut my heart out!! Did she believe him? for awhile she did. But she was smart and cut her losses and bailed. But he is still in contact with her, they share a son but he hit the boy and kicked the kid out. I would think that would be enough to end all contact. Just goes to show you that they have a way of wrangling their way into your life and staying there. I firmly believe that any contact at all puts the victim in danger of getting sucked back into their sick web of toxicity.

All the while he was writing these letters, he was living with ME and had just come back to me in tears saying I was all the woman he would ever need, the only woman he had ever loved and begging for me to give him one more second chance and he would prove he could be trusted. He would prove to me he was being honest and just give him the chance to prove he had changed.

Take it from two women who have been there, drank the koolaid, there is no knight in shining armor underneath the mask. I used to believe I knew the real James, that I was special and knew the real man, that the abusive man was not the real James and I was the only woman who really knew him, the vulnerable, sweet little boy buried deep inside. I had seen a glimpse of him and was determined to bring that man back, was positive my special, unconditional love was going to revive the man I met, if I just forgave one more time and loved just a little bit harder, gave just a little bit more.

The really poisonous part of them coming back is; not only have we forgotten how bad things were, we are hearing all the things we longed to hear for so long and had given up hope on ever hearing. How can you walk away when you are finally getting the apology you have wanted for so long? You don’t walk away………….you run…..as fast as your legs can carry you and you never look back.

The Only Reason Why The Narcissist Apologizes and Begs You Back

It doesn’t make sense. It was his idea to split, then when you left he blamed you for the relationship failing OR he road off into the sunset with his new woman, gleefully pointing out all the ways she is so much better than you.

You struggled with the guilt, self doubt and endless nights of obsessing about him and his new woman. You shed more tears than you thought was humanly possible and finally you started to get stronger. You may not be 100% healed but you got back on your feet and you are surviving.

Although you may still shed a tear or two, you accept he is a narcissist and you stay no contact out of self preservation. You no longer fantasize about getting back together, you know you will never get the apology you wanted for possibly years. Perhaps you are making good money, maybe starting to date, you have reconnected with friends and ……….. you can see happiness in your future.

And then out of nowhere he appears at your door, or he calls, or shows up at your work place and he is sweet, meek, remorseful, gentle with you and practically gushing with love and regret. Taking full responsibility for his actions and for hurting you. Why? Why would he apologize now? 

apology

You haven’t called him, not like all the other times you split when you would blow up his phone with text messages begging for a reason why he hated you. You never called him, never begged, in fact you haven’t even seen him in all this time, so he is there in front of you of his own free will; saying all the things you longed to hear for so long. The only reason he can possibly be there is if he has had am epiphany and realizes his mistake and really loves you. You know him, and he never apologized in the past, not a real heart felt apology.

Even if at first you feel strong enough to not succumb to his charms eventually his persistence will start to wear you down, you will start to fall in love with him again. He will be acting so sincere, and consistently being sweet and helpful, understanding, you will once again talk all night about the future, the way couples in love do. The love making will be passionate again and you will get that tingle when he touches you, once again he is in your thoughts all day, but they are happy thoughts this time, like in the beginning. He calls regularly and arrives on time and gives you a full account of his activities without you even asking him. He no longer packs his phone everywhere with him and leaves it laying out for you to check anytime you want and you do, and find nothing suspicious.

If he doesn’t mean it, why would he be making such an effort? he could have other women and you have no doubt that he has had other women, why wouldn’t he just stay with one of them,? why come back to you?

That is what I was thinking when I went back to James, plus he had said he was given 6 months to live just for safe measure. Who lies about dying??!! I told myself that my gut screaming at me to run was just because of the past and people can change and even if it didn’t work out I had proven to myself and him that I was independent and quite capable of taking care of myself. After all most of our fights were about money and me not making enough and now I was making good money, had a successful business, was buying a home, and I knew I could survive without him and I thought I knew how to avoid the fights, I was smarter and more aware and I could foresee trouble and nip it in the bud.

I had my faults in the relationship also, I couldn’t believe how I had reacted at times, no wonder he got sick of my crying and being suspicious. (We can have selective memories too at times and we are usually quick to forgive and forget, we don’t expect a person to wear sackcloth and ashes for the rest of their lives). And THIS time, at the first sign of trouble I will be out of there, no more chances!

So, what happened? what went wrong?

I was naive, I didn’t educate myself on narcissists, I believed that they never apologize so when he came back and was so humble and contrite i convinced myself that he must not be a narcissist. In fact he even admitted that he might be one when he apologized and said he would get help. I didn’t know they can’t be cured.

I didn’t realize what the real reason for him coming back was until a couple of years after I left for the last time.

He came back to destroy me.

You see, in the past I had always begged, pleaded, bargained and he would “do me the favor” of trying again. He would take me back because he didn’t want to see me on the street with no where to go. He hated to see me cry.

But this time I had blocked him, changed my cell phone number ( I never used my land line) and within a few months I was doing pretty good, had a handsome younger man chasing me, was buying a mobile home, etc etc and he had not destroyed me by leaving me. His ego could not handle it, I was supposed to be grovelling, a broken pile of emotions on the floor, helpless without him and I wasn’t. And I had to pay for that. He came back with the sole intention of destroying me so when he left next time I would be a grovelling, broken, insecure, lonely, cripple filled with self doubt. And he continues to pop into my life now and then just to stir the pot and try to create havoc in my life and so far I have survived every time he tries.

If you aren’t strong and self sufficient, you will still pay. If you go running back just so happy he graced you with his presence again, then he will punish you for being so F’ing stupid to believe his lies yet again and the abuse will start almost immediately.

Watch this 4 minute video by Sam Vaknin, where he explains it.