Support Forum

 

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To all new visitors! Welcome!!
You have found a great group of supportive people who have all been through what you are going through and understand completely the devastation you are feeling.
You are NOT crazy and you are not to blame, you are in a relationship or just left a relationship with a narcissist/psychopath. You are not alone. Come as often as you like to vent, ask questions, cry, and get support and encouragement.
All I ask is that everyone is respectful of each other’s opinions and understands that most everyone here are at a heightened emotional state. While with the narcissist the victim lived with constant trauma, drama and were told constantly that they were wrong to feel what they were feeling and that they were flawed in some way; it makes sense they are very sensitive to criticism. 
Opinions are just that, if someone has a different opinion than you it doesn’t mean someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong. Everyone is entitled to voice an opinion.
I may have an opinion you don’t agree with and I am more than willing to back up whatever I say, so feel free to question me and I will explain why I feel the way I do. Not to convince you I am right but to explain why I feel the way I do and maybe I will give you some information you didn’t know before. Or maybe you will enlighten me. An exchange of ideas is healthy and how we learn. 
Just remember, narcissists are basically all the same but the victims are as different as people can be, we all have our own history and frame of reference. Please respect that!
Hugs
Carrie
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8,032 Replies to “Support Forum”

  1. I’m new here but just got discarded by the narcissist that was in my life for 4 years. He gave me the silent treatment last November until the beginning of the year while he was out sharing his divineness with other women. In all reality he had been doing that the whole time but acussing me of it because of what his ” horrible exes ” did to him. I have heard some of the most heartless and vile things over the past 4 years and knowing that it was all designed to destroy me just breaks my heart. If I had been strong I would have stayed gone last November and I wouldn’t have subjected myself to another 11 agonizing months of indifference. His ” kiss off ” was that I was too good for him and that he is fucked in his head and just doesn’t know what he wants but he also said that I was to blame because of something I supposedly said the week before when he picked a fight and raged at me for over 5 hours while he was completely drunk. Sufficed to say I DID NOT say what he acussed me of. His son’s birthday party was this last weekend and he was ” so happy ” that I would be there with him! The other day when he was telling me that he was done with me he stated that the only reason I was invited was because his son wanted me there.

    I could go on and on and on about the absolute craziness that this man has spoken to me, subjected me to, expected me to participate in for the last 4 years and maybe I will as time goes on but not today. In my heart I know that he will try to contact me and what I am desperately trying to hold onto now is that I MUST LOVE MYSELF! It does not matter what he thinks of me, It does not matter what he did to me, It does not matter what he is doing with his time. It only matters that I make myself into what I need to be for me.

    When he demanded that I get rid of all social media he was really doing me a huge favor in disguise. I don’t have to torture myself with whatever he is up to and I am holding strong and not calling or texting him. I haven’t heard from him yet and I’ll be honest that stings. It sucks actually but I know it’s for the best right now. For the moment I’m nowhere near strong enough not to respond to a message or answer a phone call and then BAM! I’m right back in the middle of his crazy making.

    Any sugestions or virtual love coming way would be greatly appreciated. Just as we all felt this isn’t how we fantasized or wanted it to end.

    God Bless and hugs!

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    1. *hug* Everything will be fine. I think all of s have been where you are. I’m still technically with my narc, we just haven’t been speaking. Reading this site has opened my eyes to the fact that he did you a favor. Yes, it hurts and you feel awful, but at least now you are safe. I’ve just learned that all of us where literally in danger and lucky to be alive. The narcissist sucks our souls and then reaches the verge of literally killing us and then kicks us out. Save your life and stay away and stay sane.

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      1. Thank you James! Hugs to you too!

        I know you are right and he has hit me before and threatened me so many times I can’t count them. I know I was in danger and I know that I still am if he needs his supply and feels that I’m a willing victim.

        Even when I was crying when he was telling me that he doesn’t want a relationship with me or with anyone he demanded that I stop or better yet just leave so that he didn’t have to witness ” my bawl baby bullshit “. Told me that this was hard for him too but better that he leave me now then us move in together or if we married and then I left him. WTF!! I never asked to move in. I never asked for marriage and quite honestly since we had spoken about from the beginning I just knew and accepted that it wasn’t gonna happen. He said that he hoped that we could still be friends ” like 6 months or so down the road “, because he really enjoyed hanging out with me But reiterated that all we would be was friends. Intermingled with all this he would start to raise his voice and tell me that I just needed to hear him and ask if I understood what he was saying. He said that he was having a hard time with it too (bs) but knew it was the best thing because he just couldn’t go through what he has been through in the past.

        I just want the obsessive cycling of his dialogue to stop going through my head. Shit I don’t even need him here to torture me. I’m torturing myself with the thought of him.

        I know that in the future the messages or calls will come and I’m not gonna lie and say that I wish they wouldn’t. Even with as miserable as he made me I still crave his presence. It’s like an addict waiting for their next hit. Ugh!!!

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        1. Do you know he’s going to come back or do you want him to come back knowing you wont be strong enough to resist? That is what we must ask ourselves. And isn’t it funny how they bring us to tears and then are disgusted by the tears THEY caused. One time he threw a bottle of ranch dressing at me that spilled everywhere. He screamed and thrashed everything around telling me to clean it up. II started crying and he said “Don’t be a fu*king crybaby now!” and after I tearfully cleaned up, he said their favorite line- “You’re so sensitive.”

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          1. Good question Blaspie. I want the familiarity I suppose. I’m scared of him calling or texting but I’m also scared if he doesn’t. Nobody likes to get hurt and nobody wanted to be in this situation. Rejection even if it is from a narcissist still hurts. I wanted so badly to believe him when he said he loved me. He was very charismatic and very engaging and when it was good it was beautiful. But when it was bad torture and hell don’t seem appropriate words to describe it.

            I’ll be honest in this moment I do want him back but I know that can’t that’s why I’m not begging or pleading with him. I don’t have social media so I’m not ” stalking him “. I won’t even drive remotely close to his house. I drive far out of my way to avoid being anywhere near there. I want to know that I was important enough to him to be thought of.

            I know in time it will start to pass and it will get easier. He’s pushed me away so very many times. I have deleted his contact from my phone but although I have had moments that I wanted to block his number I haven’t done it yet and I don’t know that I will anytime soon.

            I do believe he will contact me but I don’t feel it will be soon. I know I can’t and shouldn’t respond but I don’t know that I won’t. I genuinely know that it is best that he not contact me and I have given so much of my time and strength and dignity to this over the last 4 yrs I won’t contact him and stroke his ego.

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            1. Julie, thank you for your honesty. And you know, saying “I will never call him or respond” is almost self defeating.
              I know when I was going through it the thought of never seeing him again was more than I could get my head around. To never love him again seemed impossible and it would make me want to see him even more.
              So I stopped saying “never” and just took it day by day. Sometimes hour by hour. If I was fighting phoning him I would ask myself what I was hoping would happen if I called. I knew even if he was nice it was just a matter of time I’d be crying and hurt again.
              And I knew begging wasn’t going to work long term, I knew deep down there was nothing I had not tried to make him happy and fix things.
              I would bargan with myself, if I felt I just HAD to call him I would hand write him a letter telling him everything I had to say. I would tell myself if I still felt the same way the next day after reading it again, I would send it or call. But I soon realized I wasn’t saying anything new in any of my letters. It had all been said before. I wouldn’t send it or call and the more time that went by the less I wanted to call. I have known the date that I went no contact, because it was not a conscious decision.
              Baby steps. You will make it.
              Just a little personal observation. Four years can become 10 years before you know it. The years slip by so fast and before you know it you have been repeating history for a decade. Crying over the same things you cried about for 10 years and nothing ever got resolved.
              Hugs

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              1. Thank you, Carrie. I know and in my head that little part of me wants to pick up the phone and call or reach out with a text. I will be at 1 week out tomorrow and I haven’t called or texted and neither has he. Not gonna lie that every time the phone rings or a text comes through I hurriedly grab my phone and check and nope not him. I am doing an enourmous amount of self introspection right now. Praying, meditating taking long walks. This most current ex narcissist hasn’t been my only go around the rodeo. All seven of the men that he have been with in my life has been a narcissist and I am fully aware of my empathic nature and codependency issues. Yesterday the thought struck me that unattractive and disgusting as it may seem codependency and narcissism are two sides of the same coin. Co dependenta internalize our false reality and narcissists externaliz theirs. I have two children with my prior narcissistic ex husband. He walked out when our youngest was 1. He is a tool of a human being in my mind now. The man will literally hide from me in the grocery store now because after his breaking into my house, stealing mine and my kids things, using me as an emotional punching bag, trapping me in my own driveway and trying to mind rape me at all levels after he made the decision to leave and I refused to play. I know in my heart it’s for the best and only has the potential to get better and better with time. At 40 years old I have got to know that I am better and worth more than having to accept the scraps thrown at me from someone who enjoys watching me suffer and actually puffs themselves up by my misery. I have to become so full of light and love and everything beautiful that there is to offer In This world. After 40 years I have to love me just as I am. Not because of anything I have or haven’t done but just because I exist. I’m working my way there and with Gods help this will just be a blip on the radar in a year from now. I know one thing is for sure I’m tired of not living my life. I’m tired of misery. I’m tired of running full force at the wall expecting it to be moved right before I smash into it and that not happening. Im tired of being censored. Im tired of someone else making my decisions for me or making me feel badly about my decisions. I’m tired of feeling dirty. I’m tired of these and a lot of things but at the end of the day and when I’m really honest about it I hoped for more with this one but I knew it wouldn’t be. I don’t have to play the game anymore if I don’t chose too.

                Hugs to you too!

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    2. He will try to contact you..I went almost 2 1/2 months has him blocked on everything except one email and then had a bad day and responded to one of his emails went through 5 days of more crazy making and now I feel even worse than when I left him…I was numb for so long and he brought out every emotion possible at this point I am contemplating letting him think that I am going back to him so he can discard me..,maybe it will be easier that way..toxic unhealthy thinking on my part I know but the pain is crippling…stay NO CONTACT for your own sanity!!

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      1. Thank you for your replay cantevergoback!

        I haven’t blocked him from being able to call and I know that I probably should but I haven’t. It will be two weeks on Wednesday of this week! I have not called or texted and neither has he. I do not do social media anymore. Oddly enough it was at his demand that I stopped them all over a year ago. I’m not delusional as to why that was such an issue for him. It would sure make it hard to give the appearance of a ” single life ” if your girlfriend were commenting on your posts that they had a great time with you doing something or the other. In retrospect though I am immensely glad that he pushed the issue and I complied. I don’t have to feel compelled to check out what he is doing and I don’t fall into the trap of posting sappy, heart sick junk or mad and bitter stuff either.

        I am practicing meditation daily and just really attempting to take the ” I ” ego out of all of this. Yes, it really hurt to be discarded. Yes, it really hurt to have 4 years of my time, sweat, blood and tears spent on this. Yes, it really hurt to love somebody so much that there was no limit to what i wouldn’t do even if it meant my own destruction. Yes, it hurt to realize that he just is this and it was his own choosing and I don’t need to exhaust myself trying to understand it. In regards to him… I didn’t break it and it isn’t my responsibility to fix it. Nobody wants to lose that return on investment. That’s only human. I am owning up to the fact that I have been accepting of this behavior and by my inaction I was condoning his treatment of me. I never had or established healthy boundaries because I didn’t think that I deserved better and that is the gut wrenching truth and I really can’t say what hurt worse the abuse or my hating of myself. I have lived through a lot of things that I never allowed myself to heal from and it was just easier to focus on someone else and ” fixing ” them than to really look hard at me and fix me. I cannot continue to keep giving myself away so cheaply. So I am spending a lot of time with that wounded part of me and really trying to find the same amount of compassion for her that I have for everyone else. She deserves it too! And if I don’t give it to her no one else will either. That’s just the nature of things.

        He and I went through a situation very similar to this 1 year ago where he just ghosted me. Wouldn’t respond to any messages until days later. the only difference in the last time and this time is that this time he was forced to say these things to my face and boy was it brutal! It hurt like hell!! The last time it took him about 3 weeks to finally start reaching out and like a love sick fool I played right into it. I wanted to believe all of the things that he was saying. Then we got back together and it was good for about 3 weeks then came the verbal abuse again and it was so much more calculated and demeaning than it had been the first time. It was truly like the alien from another planet had absolutely no knowledge or understanding of human feelings and how to communicate with me. Probably because he never really had respect for me but by my forgiving him and coming back I just had the ” stink ” of desperation on me, I was blood in the water to a shark, in his estimation at least. Truth be told I did and I am pretty ashamed of myself for going back but that’s just self defeating. I did what I did. I can’t change that and I’m not even going to attempt to describe why I did.

        The moral of the story…I am working on me. For me. I don’t need to worry about loving anyone else at the moment because I have to find ways to love and nurture me or I will set myself up to go through this again either with him or someone just like him because let’s be honest people like this are a dime a dozen. You could swing a cat by the tail and throw it in any direction and your assured of hitting someone who is the identical twin ( insert different face and name ) of the one you just came out of it with. There is still a part of me that wants him to reach out but there’s an equally big part that doesn’t want him to. With the path that I am on and working through it will be my decision if I choose to accept his invitation or decline it and I won’t have to provide any justification of it. I am finding peace with myself and I am smiling and getting out of bed and taking walks and this is a good place to start…I’m not beating myself up anymore.

        Hugs!

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  2. Thank you Carrie, I’ve just called my mum, she is going to come stay with me this weekend and im going to tell her how im feeling and I wont be alone feeling this way. I have woken up a bit better and ive read your words and again feel evey word is true. Thank you for helping me to save myself from myself, I will not do anything I am going to promise you and everyone on here that so that I too cant go back on it. Thank you Carrie, I will be in touch in a few days I just need to be with my.mum for this.love and hug xxxx

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  3. It all feels so dark. I feel lost. Some days I’m strong and accepting but some days I just ask why? It’s just a big ball of confusion. Being put out through no fault of your own really sucks, especially when you gave so much. All I can feel is confusion. I’m mad at my friend for causing all of this although I know her heart was in the right place. I feel stupid for wanting my abuser to come back to me and speak to me again. We live together and haven’t spoken a word in 2 weeks. I just cant believe after everything I’ve endured by him, he does this to me. It sucks so much and I can’t turn to my friends for help as they have run away from me at this point.

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      1. Blaspie, hugs!

        It hurts like a son a bitch and I know that. He has to incite as many people to do his bidding as possible. It is just another form of gas lighting. As many people as he can get to do his bidding he will. It keeps his hands clean but he still gets to sit back and relish in the deliciousness of the supply that he gets from it all. You have got to take a long hard look at why you allowed this man in your life. You have to answer some really icky and deep seeded questions about what you think of you and why you or any of us would allow this darkness into our life. The answer is the same for us all! It’s because deep down we think this is the best that we can do and the narcissist knows this! That’s why they targeted you. That’s why they stalked you and that is why they still torment you! It is sooooo far from easy but you have got to take the focus off of him and his behavior and his crazy making and you have to look at what you don’t like about you and that, my friend is where you begin! It feels awful to realize that our own self hatred and our own feelings of insecurity and worthlessness caused this all. And please understand that I say that with all the love and compassion in the world! YOU are worth more than this pain! YOU deserve to be safe and happy and loved but the only way that you can get those things long term is to forgive yourself and to LOVE you! Practice yoga, do belly dancing, take long walks, hot baths! I don’t know what makes you feel safe and secure but somewhere deep down in your soul you do! Listen to that part of you and openly talk to your creator. I know my creator as God! He created us all for a purpose and this is far from where he has intended and designed you to be! Tell him every dirty detail of what you went through and know that there is no judgement. There is no condemnation. He was there with you through it all and he already knows but it does our heart good to bear our souls and then he can start to pick up those pieces that feel fractured and shattered and He can put us back together better than we ever were before. Trust yourself! Trust your higher power! You are welcome to a life of love and happiness simply because you exist!

        Love and hugs!

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    1. And now the flying monkeys have started. I work with one of his friends who apparently just found out what happened. I guess the narc is blaming everything on me and I “betrayed” him by discussing our issues with my friends.

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    2. This is one of the best responses I’ve read. I can feel your sincerity. I wish I was where you are. I was discarded and still live with the narc but the silent treatment has been like hell. A part of me is wishing he would just talk to me, but I know it wont happen. The wound was too big i guess.

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      1. Hello James,

        Where was the wound too big? Is it on his side, because if it is you can’t fix that. You didn’t break it and it isn’t your responsibility to fix it. He needs to sweep his own side of the street. Or is the ” too big wound ” on your side? If it is on your side please know that all of that fixing is soooo within your power to heal but you have to approach with compassion and understanding. Not to talk about me but to give an observation of what I am talking about. A week ago I was on the phone with a friend and I was just lamenting how I badly I hate being left! When my sister and nephew moved it shattered me. When my friend mover over 3000 miles away I was blown apart. When my husband left me and my kids I had full blown panic attacks. When the most current relationship left I had full blown panic and PTSD type symptoms. I realized in that moment the commonality. I am terrified of being left and forgotten. My lord! That realization alone made me free fall into rock bottom and the beginning of a full blown panic attack and then I took a couple of really deep breaths and I made the decision not to walk away from that feeling I was gonna step my beautiful little feet right into the middle of it and I was gonna listen to it tell me why I had that fear. The words that came pouring out of my mouth were memories from 35 YEARS AGO!!!! My lord! 35 years of carrying that fear of abandonment around with me until I let it cripple me! I let it abuse me! I couldn’t live my life in an authentic, joyful, peaceful way because I was in constant terror and carrying that baggage behind me. I cried my eyes out and then I told myself that fear was real! It was manufactured from a real wound! I need to offer all of the love and compassion that I try to give to other people straight into the center of that wound and then I need to release it! I ripped that mask off and I let it go. I know that there is every potential that it might resurface but I’m enjoying happiness in waves! I enjoying peace!

        Please know that there is truly no limits to what directions we can move ourselves! When you want to live a life where you aren’t punishing yourself you will step right out into that glorious thought and then you will set it on fire!! You will be so absorbed walking your own path and addressing your own fears and healing those that you won’t have much time to think about his silent treatment. He does those things for a very real wound too but he doesn’t want to fix them they serve him too well!

        One of my favorite Irish blessings and it is applicable to this….
        My those that love us, LOVE us!
        My those that don’t love us, may God turn their hearts
        And if He won’t turn their hearts may he turn their ankles so that we may know them by their limping. – Irish proverb

        Let him be crippled! That’s what he wants and that’s ok for him to want that.
        But don’t you let his crippledness turn your ankle! Life is far too beautiful and precious for walking with that limp! Love yourself because you are sooooo worth it!

        Hugs!

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      2. Hello James,

        Where was the wound too big? Is it on his side, because if it is you can’t fix that. You didn’t break it and it isn’t your responsibility to fix it. He needs to sweep his own side of the street. Or is the ” too big wound ” on your side? If it is on your side please know that all of that fixing is soooo within your power to heal but you have to approach with compassion and understanding.

        Not to talk about me but to give an observation of what I am talking about…A week ago I was on the phone with a friend and I was just lamenting how I badly hate being left! When my sister and nephew moved it shattered me. When my friend moved over 3000 miles away I was blown apart. When my husband left me and my kids I had full blown panic attacks. When the most current relationship left I had full blown panic and PTSD symptoms. I realized in that moment the commonality. I am terrified of being left. My lord! that realization alone made me free fall into rock bottom and the beginning of a full blown panic attack and then I took a couple of really deep breaths and I made the decision not to walk away from that feeling or to attempt to numb it. I made the choice to step my little feet right into the middle of it and I was gonna listen to it tell me why I had that fear. The words that came pouring out of my mouth were memories from 35 YEARS AGO!!! My lord! 35 years of carrying that fear of abandonment around with me until I let it cripple me! I let it abuse me! I couldn’t live my life in an authentic, joyful, peaceful way because I was in constant terror and carrying that baggage behind me. I cried my eyes out and then I told myself that fear was real! It was manufactured from a real wound! I need to offer all of the love and compassion that I try to give to other people straight into the center of that wound and then I need to release it! I ripped that mask off of that fear and I grieved it and then I let it go. I know that there is every potential that it might resurface but I’m enjoying the happiness in waves! I’m enjoying peace and I haven’t felt that in a really REALLY long time!

        Please know that there is truly no limits to what directions we can move ourselves! There are no obstacles that we Cannot overcome when we want to live a life where we aren’t punishing ourselves. You will step right out into that glorious thought and then you will set it on fire!! You will be so absorbed walking your own path and addressing your own fears and healing those things that you won’t have much time to think about his silent treatment. He does those things for a very real wound too but he doesn’t want to fix his wounds because they serve him too well!!

        On of my favorite Irish blessings and it is applicable to this…
        May those that love, LOVE us!
        May those that don’t love us, May God turn their hearts
        And if He won’t turn their hearts may he turn their ankles so that we may know them by their limping. – Irish Proverb

        Let him be crippled. That’s what he wants and that’s ok for him to want that. He is responsible for him. But don’t you let his cripledness turn your ankle! Life is far too beautiful, brief and precious for walking with that limp! Lover yourself because you are unique in all the world. You are soooo worth it!

        Hugs!

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        1. Thank you for your words. I meant that I wounded him when I let m friend know about the abuse taking place. He exploded. Then stopped tlaking to me and cut me off. Then, yesterday, as I was feeling good about the situation, he started talking to me. Then, out of the blue he unblocked me on social media. It was all really weird.

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          1. James, they are ALWAYS the wounded one! ALWAYS!
            my ex used to always say if I talked to anyone about what happened between us made him look like an asshole.
            Finally I said, “If me telling the truth makes you look like an asshole maybe you should stop acting like an asshole.”
            He never said that again.
            When he used my laptop and left his POF account open and I discovered he was meeting other women. It was MY fault for snooping. Everything was going just fine until I blew it!
            Of course he doesn’t want you talking to friends about what goes on because he doesn’t want to look bad. Now he is going to say all kinds of way worse things about you because he is angry and he has to be the victim.
            He will never ever admit to any fault.
            In a healthy relationship the couple can talk about what the other person does because the other person isn’t doing horrible things. A person should never have to lie in order to cover for their lover’s behavior.
            It’s all part of the game. They all use the same book of N plays. Just like any other “sport”. He is playing you.

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  4. Hello everyone. I just wanted to pop in and leave a note saying I am not ignoring you all but my step dad died about 2 weeks ago and the “celebration” of his life is tomorrow. I am doing all the planning, supporting my mother through this time and have lost my drivers license due to having another heart attack in June.
    After tomorrow my time will be freed up and I will be back commenting etc.
    Take care all. And listen to Tea4two!! She knows of what she speaks!! 🙂

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      1. Carrie,

        Gosh! Be well dear friend…all of us on here are surrounding you with our prayers and support. We are so grateful to all you have done. Try to rest and take good care of yourself. We look forward to your wise words. Hang in there!

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  5. My wife left me for a co-worker who turns out to be a narcissist. He has convinced her to rewrite our whole history of the past 11 years. She has know him for only about 5 months now and moved in with him about 3 months ago. Only a couple days after she left me.

    “Narcissists are attracted to strong, competent, self sufficient women with a strong sense of responsibility and moral fiber.”

    This certainly fits my wife to a T. One of his past women (who he is still involved with a little) contacted me and told me about all of the abuse she has dealt with. She has so much healing to do. Currently, My wife is only seeing the “charming” side of him. I’m afraid she will see the physically abusive side soon. Everything she tells me or her family is a lie. I assume this is because of the narcissist she is with. She has pretty much cut off all of her family and friends.Everything she is doing to so out of character.

    He has done this many times. He finds a professional women who, if she is married turns her against her husband and get her to Divorce as fast a possible. (he is still married to his 4th wife and won’t divorce her).

    Can a narcissist really be so good at what the do that they can take my wife who was in a happy marriage and flip her in a matter of weeks. As my wife stated “She never knew we had any problems or she was unhappy until she met this man”

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    1. Sorry to hear about your situation, but to answer your question, yes they really are that good. That is how they get away with what they do. Mine deceived me for decades. I truly thought he was an honourable person but now I describe him as the “talented Mr Ripley”. He was never as he seemed and deceived so many. As an example, on our last holiday he bragged to a woman back home that he had already slept with two women and was working on a mother and daughter staying at our resort! I did not have a clue, nor did the five friends that we were traveling with us.

      Some of our long term friends can’t or won’t see him for what he really is but our newer friends saw his mask slipping in the discarding phase and have no problem seeing the real him. I think the longer you invest in someone the harder to see and let go.

      Unfortunately your wife will be getting love bombed at the moment and will not see what is crystal clear for you and his ex nor will she be told.

      I cannot tell you what to do but it sounds like he goes through women very quickly. Educate yourself. Knowledge is power and it will help you to deal with what’s happening and how to respond. She may need your support when it’s all over but you need to look after yourself. Make sure you are protected. They seem to suck their victims dry emotionally and financially.

      Nelly

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    2. Joe, my apologies for being so slow to reply. A death in the family.
      Anyway, yes they are that good. I would suspect that things are already falling apart and the “honeymoon” phase is quickly coming to an end. She will try to revive the man she met and nothing will be good enough. He will eventually discard her and more than likely she will come crawling back to you expecting you to put her back together.
      I caution you to not believe that she has “learned her lesson” and the two of you can mend the fences and carry on.
      A narcissist rarely discards their victims totally.
      Her N is not just feeding off of the ego boost he is getting from sucking a strong woman into his web. He is getting bonus ego strokes from taking her away from you. He is the “better man” in his eyes. I can see him in the near future dumping her ass. She goes running back to you, you love her, know she was sucked in by a narcissist and forgive her because after all it wasn’t really her fault. You think you can work through this and she really wants to put him behind her but she will be shattered. He will be hanging in the wings making a “come back”, working together would be impossible!!! Just long enough to put doubt in her mind. I have heard many times of women who left their husbands many times going back and forth between the N and their husband.
      Don’t let yourself get sucked into the triagulation and sick games of the N. You are as much a victim of the N as your wife is.
      If you are to ever find happiness you must walk away from her and not be her “safe place to land” it will ruin your life.
      You know the truth about what he is and now you have to stop trying to predict what the future holds, what his next move will be or save your wife. Time to stop talking to his ex, and cut off all contact with your wife.
      It may sound harsh but if you don’t you will in this limbo hell forever.
      Just like his ex that called you, she keeps in contact and is stuck in this roller coaster ride from hell because she really is hoping he will someday realize he loves her and be faithful to her.
      By talking to her you are getting pulled down the rabbit hole. What delicious narc supply. Everyone is talking about him. Oh goodie!!!
      Do not play the game!!
      Hugs
      Carrie

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  6. How do I help my daughter that has been in a relationship with a narcissist and it’s bad. I am worried about my 5 year old granddaughter. I am desperate to help them. My daughter is in denial and feel she is taking it out on her daughter. What can I do? As her mother I am so heart broken. If I try to offer the narcissist money to leave and NEVER come back will that work?

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    1. Hi Lisa,

      I meant to write you the other night and I laid down for a “minute” and voila…I was out…life of a single mom :). First of all, it’s awesome you love your daughter are wanting to see her safe! Second, you need to address any safety concerns first and foremost. Victims of domestic violence feel that they are deserving of abuse, deny it, and often, even if they report it, go back to their abuser. It’s this horrible, vicious cycle. Stay connected to your daughter, try to help out with your granddaughter as much as possible…talk about Carrie’s web-site, be subtle if need be, but drop little hints like” I found this web-site and it some of it reminds me of….fill in the blank…you cannot ” force” someone into awareness. You can stay connected, making sure everyone is safe. If you see something criminally abusive, report it! I know that’s scary for victims to do….I know I didn’t, at first. I didn’t report anything, ever to anyone. Now??? If my abuser ever, ever, ever h arrases, threatens or does anything to me…I am reporting him. I, up until very recently, allowed my abuser to send the most horrible text messages, call me the most lewd names and even let him threaten to kill himself. I did nothing!! Now??? I would run to the phone and report this behavior. IT’S BEYOND UNACCEPTABLE and it’s wrong, and criminal!!! Mental abuse can be prosecuted not only as domestic violence but also disorderly conduct “disturbing someone’s peace”. It’s against the law. There’s this fear mentality and it was almost at a pathological level with me, where I refused to stand up for myself and I cowered, literally at one point, to his behavior. Can you make your daughter see this? No but can you stay connected to her, loving her and also calling abuse what it is…wrong, criminal etc… Keep a journal too of everything you see, hear and trying to rationalize with a narcissist is really futile. They are truly some of the most manipulative, intelligent “charmers” I have ever encountered. Beware they can sense when someone has figured out their game. That can make them feel threatened. Please, please read Carrie’s blog. She gives examples that will help you understand how sick these people are. It will educate you and help you have informed conversations with your daughter. Please note, the behaviors you read on Carrie’s blog are very common among narcissists. I really believe you will find yourself saying” Oh my goodness, I have seen him do that or this”. This will be helpful to share with your daughter at some point….It’s not normal behavior, it’s not love, and I am praying her eyes will see the truth! Sorry, I know I tend to go on but I hope this helps. You will find truth on this web-site and it will help you understand. Take care!

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    2. Lisa, please listen to Tea4two, she is SO right!! There really is nothing I can add.
      I will only reinforce how important it is to journal any abuse you hear of. For one thing it will help if you can go back and show your daughter how often there i’s abuse. The victim gets so overwhelmed and the N keeps them that way on purpose so they can’t think clearly and rationally. The best thing I ever did for myself was journal because later when I looked back I could see history repeating itself over and over again.
      Nothing was ever resolved nothing ever changed.
      It gets very frustrating when the victim keeps going back. Try to not let the frustration show too much with statements like; “what is wrong with you?” Or by making her choose between you and him. Whatever you do, do not reject her unless she leaves him; it will only push her into his arms. He will try everything to drive a wedge between you and her so she won’t have any support.
      Just keep listening, spend as much time with your grand daughter that you can and try to not make every conversation about trying to convince her to leave.
      If she brings it up, support her and remind her of her value, she is not crazy, this is not love, but don’t nag her about leaving.
      It is a tough position to be in I know. We are here for you and your daughter.
      Prayers going out to you
      Hugs
      Carrie

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  7. Just wanted to give an update on my situation. After 3 weeks of not talking (aside from a snide email or 2) I woke up and realized what I’d lost. I lost the need to wake up everyday checking my phone in fear of a nasty text rant. I lost the fear of checking social media and seeing something humiliating aimed at me. I lost the fear of being yelled at for the slightest infraction. I lost the fear of being hit. In the last few weeks I havent had to worry about anything. Just yesterday my narcs dad sent me a text(they have the same name) and my heart instantly jumped in fear of what was to be said. I don’t have to live like that anymore. It’s only been 3 weeks and I haven’t moved out yet, but it feels good to know I can share the same space with the narc and realize what im escaping from.

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    1. Hi James P,

      It’s true that living in fear of what these crazies have to say can not only control your life but consume you. It’s almost a form of co-dependency or at least that’s what it was for me. I think when you constantly fear what others have to say, you totally give your power over to others.It’s a cyclical pattern and toxic to your well-being and being able to move forward in life. It’s a hard pattern to break! So, James P, or anyone else who is living this nightmare, you have to start taking steps to say, “No, I will not allow myself to be abused any longer by anyone”. For me, I finally got to the point where I just refuse to read his texts or accept his phone calls. I am now printing out his texts, for court purposes, and will only allow him to call my phone to speak with my children. I do not engage him or his family in any kind of communication, I mean anything!!! The only time I step in is when he or his family members start to say things to my children, via phone, that are inappropriate. That’s it!! You have to remember, though, that these people have playbooks on how to “stir” things up. They want you to feel mad, sad or angry. They want to get at you. They are not normal and cannot have normal interactions with anyone. Everything is a chess game to them…whether it is using people to get something or abusing someone to feel powerful, it’s all about their insatiable desire to feel in control, powerful and to have their sick needs met. That’s all it ever will be and there is nothing you can say or do to have a logical discussion with them. RUN!!!! if you can….get away from people like that. You do not want them to like you or even care what they say to you or about you. If you do not have children with him, please get away from him and ANYONE who supports him.
      One last thing, I know how hard it is to leave when you have no money, no family and are reliant upon others to help support you. I was there 3 years ago. I am still struggling but I wouldn’t change anything, I mean anything about finally coming into the realization of who he is was and who his mother was, with whom I thought I had a close relationship with. They have said the most horrible things about me to my children and to whom ever they think will listen. They continually try to paint me as a bad mother and a bad person. There is never a conversation with my children, that they are not trying to “glean” some sort of damning information about me or critical of my parenting skills. I DON”T CARE!!!!! That was a HUGE step for me, to finally stop believing their TOXIC LIES and say to myself, ” ENOUGH YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE WHAT THEY SPEAK AND YOU WILL NOT ALLOW THIS TO AFFECT YOU, AT ALL, ANY LONGER” . That was a very big moment for me and it took time and was gradual. I get stronger, though, everyday. You know what? I am using this horrible nightmare, which still goes on, to apply this to my everyday life too. There are, unfortunately, toxic people everywhere….bosses, co-workers, teachers, friends, church folks etc….and guess what? THEY DON”T GET TO ABUSE ME EITHER!. I am not saying to walk around expecting people to be like this but you are more aware. There are good people in this world, but was has changed for me is that other people don’t make or break my day. I control every thought, and behavior towards other people….they do not control me. Hope y’all don’t mind my “longer” responses. I just have been through the “wringer” like everyone else and feel at home here. Keep ur chin up, James P!

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      1. Tea4two, right on!!! You have said exactly what I would have said.
        I still catch myself caring what people think or say but I stop myself immediately! Because it just does not matter!! I don’t do things in order for people to like me; I do them because it is the right thing to do. I live true to my core self. I used to do things because I was trying to make people happy, like me or because I thought it was expected of me. I don’t any more. 9 times out of 10 when I did what other people thought I should it was not in my best interest and to top it off someone else would think I did the wrong thing.
        When I follow my gut instincts, honor my core values and communicate honestly I make much smarter decisions, have inner peace even when things are not going well and don’t worry about what people think.
        People tend to respect me more when I stopped caring whether they respected me. That does not mean I allow anyone to disrespect me. When you live true to your core self there is no room for people who don’t respect you and it stops being a battle to be treated right. People sense they can no longer control you and the power struggles are short lived.
        Hard to explain. But I know you know what I mean. 😉
        Hugs

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    2. James, that is great! And it is just the start.
      I am afraid this could be the calm before the storm and until you are out of there completely you are vulnerable to the vicious attacks of the N.
      Do not ever think you areally strong enough now to stay or you have figured out how to coexist with the N.
      Keep your focus on the door and don’t tell him when you are leaving, just go.

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      1. Its a challenge every day. Its like they have a super sense for when you are over them. He suddenly unblocked me on social media yesterday as I was feeling so strong. And again, as soon as I saw his name on my timeline, I froze. That fear returned. I dont want that fear anymore

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  8. Hi,
    My mother, as diagnosed by me, has narcissistic personality disorder. Currently I think I am caught in the middle of a narcissistic-codependent dynamic. Today was an exceptionally scary and challenging day. In the throws of an irrational and emotional explosion by him (it was like talking to a nonsensical brick wall), I received a notification on my phone about an email from Lisa Rankin (she also has a blog, which is a nice resource) titled “Free yourself from the Narcissitic/Empath pattern-part one. Perfect timing, right? When I read it, and since it has been quite some time since I have been in the cross-hairs of such a dynamic, I was able to recognize my personal evolution in such dynamics, and have a slightly better idea of how to change them. I’m still working on that. But I do think it is a dynamic that I create and/or am drawn to. This evening I thought to myself “why do I keep creating this dynamic?” my answer “well, i can blame my mother”. and before her it had to come from something, right? My mothers family is notorious for being hard headed, explosive and argumentative (like talking to nonsensical brick walls, if all other walls made sense). This leads me to my grandfather. He was a prisoner of war for several years. Coming home to no mental healthcare, as far as I know. I imagine how that could leave a person. I wonder how that effected and conditioned my mom, the narcissist who grew up in his home.
    I ask you dear people, do you think that narcissistic personality disorder may be a product of war? or trauma? Maybe those too deeply in the throws of it can’t be helped (I certainly have tried). As for us, those cognizant enough to recognize something needs change, we should treat ourselves as survivors of war, with as much love and care as we can muster.
    For me, having a mother with Narcissistic personality disorder, learning that that is a thing changed my life. Finally there was an explanation for her crazy. It wasn’t actually my fault. Developing the running theory that her personality disorder is a product of her upbringing revolutionized how I deal with her. Now I see her as a little girl who was hurt, and for whatever reason was not able to grow out of it. It’s a lot easier dealing with a scared hurt girl, than a mean angry woman. It makes it easier to brush things off.
    If you are struggling, I encourage you to change your perspective. It makes it easier to set boundaries.
    That’s what I’m trying to do in this scary situation. When this happened before, I wasn’t independent (not financially or in most any way), I didn’t have a positive support system of people, I didn’t have things to look forward to, I was living in a place I couldn’t do self care (no showers/no running water, no bathroom). This time I am independent, in a great home, I have amazing positive friends, and I am in school studying something that I love. And you know what? I think I’ve got this this time.
    But I am still terrified that I will get lonely, or scared of being alone and stay. I’m having a hard time trusting myself to stand my ground and follow through to put a stop to this.

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    1. Ruby, congratulations on working on yourself and improving your life. You are right, independence is a huge step in removing yourself from the dysfunction of a narcissist.
      Try to take it a day at a time and not psych yourself out worrying about what might happen. Everyday you get stronger.
      A word of caution, a narcissist hates to see anyone succeed and will do everything they can to keep you down. I am not sure if you have gone full no contact but it really is advisable if possible because the N will pick away at your self confidence every chance they get.
      I have my own theory about where narcissists come from. I don’t believe they come from some trauma. Many have trauma or abuse in their past but that could be because they are narcissistic.
      The theory that they are narc because of trauma doesn’t explain why there are narcissists who come from perfectly wonderful homes and who had siblings that all grew into healthy loving members of society.
      Brain scans prove that being a narcissist is not really a choice. Yes they choose to hurt people, that is totally within their control but their brains never develop the ability to feel empathy, guilt or remorse. In fact their ability to feel anything is deadened.
      How they are raised, experiencing trauma etc may contribute to how they exhibit the traits of narcissism, making some N”s more obvious than others.
      One thing for sure, they can not be healed and they don’t deserve your sympathy or understanding. Any compassion from you will be used against you to their benefit.
      Now, with that said; there are other personality disordered that have very similar traits as narcissism and a person can have strong narcissistic traits without being a full fledged narcissist.
      What you have to do is continue to work on improving your life and being the best you and most authentic you that you can be. If your mother is unhealthy for you to be around then you must distance yourself. Just because someone is family does not mean they get a free ticket to abuse us.
      Hugs
      Carrie

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      1. I honestly believe it’s nature and nurture. My Narc’s dad wrote an autobiography detailing his child hood. From reading the book it was very clear my Narc’s dad and grand dad were both narcs. The autobiography felt like a big self congratulatory pat on the back. I know my narc and his dad never got along because his dad is a pastor and my narc is gay and has always been proudly gay. I know that this caused my narc to pretend to be someone that he wasn’t to always try and earn his fathers approval. His father is the only person I know him to kind of become timid around and then he frets when his father leaves. I always felt bad for him because I know how sad he gets knowing his dad will never fully embrace him. I remember he was lamenting one day because his dad had a “church family” photo and his sisters husband was in the photo. He was lamenting the fact that he knew if he ever got married or had a partner that he wouldn’t be allowed in the photo. So I stayed in large part because I knew that his cruelty was really coming from a place of hurt. But yeah, I think there’s a genetic component as all of the patriarchs in his family seem to have a tendency towards narcissism.

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