Tag Archives: Danger

Response to How Do We Know If A Person Is A Narcissisr?

Yesterday I reblogged a post from Elise Stewarts site. It was a comment/question left by one of the visitors to her blog asking how does a person know without a doubt that a person they meet is a narcissist before they get in too deep to get out unscathed. I went back today and commented on the post and have copied and pasted that response below:

Carrie ReimerYour comment is awaiting moderation.

I can relate so well to the commenter on all aspects of her journey, including the heightened empathy. She/he doesn’t say how long they have been split from the N (or if they did I have forgotten) but its been 3 yrs for me and I have found that at the 2 yr mark I felt a lot more vulnerable than I do now, 3 yrs out. I haven’t hidden away but I have been very cautious and have dealt with a few N types since leaving my ex. It seemed as if I was an N magnet at first, not romantically but because I was so vulnerable emotionally and so destitute financially I seemed to attractive men wanting to take advantage of that, I became quite cynical and shut off because of it. I don’t feel I am cynical any more but I am cautious and very aware of every little indication a person may be an N, whether it is a social situation or work, family even and I take my time getting to know them. Personally I find I am quite perceptive and usually pick up on the signs rather quickly. I think the secret is listening to your gut. There are no guarantees, the professionals get sucked in by these people all the time, and they are experts at hiding their true selves but there are little “give aways” that we previously ignored and we always feel it in our gut. I think the only way we can assure ourselves safety from these soul suckers is to take all relationships slow, that is not to say a person has to hide away or be shut off to people, in fact the best way to disarm an N is to be open to them and see how they react to your openness. But you can’t do it from a vulnerable position and that takes time, you have to be healed enough that if you discover the person is an N you can walk away unscathed. Maybe disappointed that the person wasn’t what they projected but not devastated because they abused your deepest fears and vulnerabilities.

The truth is, there are always going to be N’s waiting to bounce on a person and if we are to move on with our life we have to be aware and listen to our guts instinct and not doubt ourselves. Every single person I have talked to who has been involved with an N had early signs and ignored them and didn’t listen to their gut. I know she asked for a sure fire way of knowing without a doubt that a person is an N, and the only answer to that is listen to your gut, it does not lie. Sure you can doubt it, what it you are wrong, what if the person isn’t an N, maybe I am just being too cautious, maybe my N radar is malfunctioning because I was so hurt and now am damaged from that hurt, maybe I suspect everyone is an N. that is the empathy in us speaking, we don’t want to falsely accuse someone of being something they aren’t, we don’t want to be unfair but we can control that self doubt and have to.

When a deer in the forest senses danger they act on that gut feeling, it is a God given gift to sense danger; the deer doesn’t stand around and wait to make sure they are picking up the signal properly. They don’t worry about looking silly for running, they don’t worry about being fair think to themselves, “I have come so far and now I have to run back the same way I came and waste all that time, maybe I am wrong, maybe I should just go a bit further so I can be sure there is danger and then I will feel better about wasting my time or maybe there won’t be danger and I will get where I am going faster”. NO they run!! as fast as they can in the opposite direction and they don’t look back and I am sure they thank their lucky stars they got away.

As for needing human closeness and interaction; she is right that we all (or most of us) have a need for closeness with people, we need other people in our lives to care about. Especially an empath needs to love someone. I found one of the things that I had the hardest time dealing with was, I loved loving my ex. He didn’t love me, he didn’t treat me lovingly so it made no sense to stay; but I stayed because I loved loving him. The N forces us to love like we have never loved before, he challenges us to love unconditionally, love despite how he treats us, and we give from our soul because it is the only way we can love at that point. When you give that much it is very hard to stop loving and giving but eventually you give until you have nothing left to give and he discards you. once your reserves start to replenish he comes back and you do it again and again until finally he walks away for good or by some miracle you break away. But eventually your reserves replenish and you feel the need to love again. I don’t know how to explain it but I found in my life I was able to focus my love on other things besides him. I started to perform random acts of kindness, it is a safe way to show love to someone, you never see them again but you make a difference in someone’s life. I started my blog reaching out to other victims in hopes of saving them from some of the heart ache I suffered and at times that is almost too much to bare because I can relate so well but for me it takes a bad experience and makes it worth while. On occasion an N has come into my blog but it didn’t take long for myself and the members of my page to pick up on them. I was able to observe from a safe distance and when enough signs presented themselves I dealt with them. I focused on mending some family relationships (I think almost everyone who has been involved with an N has some family fences to mend) by being open and honest with my feelings and was prepared to lose the relationship if necessary but in each case the relationship became stronger and better for it.

Sorry Elise, this got much longer than I intended. Just my thoughts on it. Excellent question, it really got me thinking.

Have a great new year and thank you for all you do to help other victims of narcissists. I came to your blog years ago now and I forget what I said exactly, something about “when does the pain stop” and I didn’t even come back to see if there was a response but you emailed me personally. It meant a lot to me.

Hugs Carrie
An after thought on my reply to this commenter. Victim, or survivors of a narcissistic love relationship have to be very aware of their neediness. The N tears the person down to nothing and stomps on their self esteem and then tosses their love back at them with a smirk and disgust saying they got much better love elsewhere. To go looking for another love relationship seems like a logical way to heal, find a man who will show you that your love is good and you are good and enough but it won’t heal the hurt only put a bandage on it and the likelihood of getting involved with another narcissist is so high it isn’t worth taking the chance.

There is absolutely no way a person fresh out of a relationship with an N is healthy enough to recognize an N. They are thinking about the discard, the belittling, all the abuse that came after the love bombing of the beginning. As soon as they meet someone who thinks they are the best, everything they have been looking for, can’t get enough of you, you are perfect, you start soaking it up like a dry sponge and you are doomed.

It is imperative that a person get to the point where they don’t need the approval of a man and love themselves fully before they leave themselves open to loving again.

hugs

Back to work, more later

Carrie

After I got my truck I thought it was meant to be that I be self employed somehow with my truck but the one thing I vowed NOT to do was haul scrap. JC had hauled scrap, most of which he acquired in the middle of the night and I knew of no one who did it honestly. I had landscaping experience, delivery experience but I had purposely not paid attention to JC hauling scrap because I didn’t approve and people didn’t refer to me as a “girly girl” for nothing. Even delivering for the auto scrap yard I changed clothes 3 times a day because I hated being dirty.

But as luck (or God) would have it the only work I got offered was scrap hauling, cleaning up farms, etc and the reason I got the jobs was because I was honest and people trusted me on their property. I never advertised but my business grew by leaps and bounds just from word of mouth. A fellow gave me a hand pump crane for my truck and then one day I was loading a heavy rear end off of a truck and no matter how hard I pumped that crane the rear end would not come off the ground. I looked up and the crane was bending with the weight. There was a fellow standing there watching and laughing, he said, “You need a decent winch and crane.”

Me – Yeah I do, are you going to buy it for me?

Him – No, I am going to GIVE it to you. It was given to me and I can’t use it.

It was a winch and crane worth probably $2000, the winch didn’t work and it cost me $75 to fix. I had that crane and winch right up to the day I sold my F550, it made me a ton of money and made my job a hundred times easier.

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I started hauling scrap in 2006 and like I said the work came to me and I did well, JC and I were off and on but through this time I was able to pay rent and live comfortably whereas when I was with JC we always ended up living in some ghetto dive. I would let him stay with me and he loved the attention dating the Lady Witha Truck got him. He would appear very supportive and then sabotage my truck behind my back, it kept me needing him but self supporting and bringing home car parts etc that he often took off my truck. God protected me through it all, twice my brake line “wore through” on my F550, and both times I had seen JC under my truck that morning, driven to the job site and when I went to leave I didn’t have brakes or steering. (With my truck if the brake line broke you lost your steering also) it is nothing but a miracle that the line didn’t let go while I was driving down the road, what are the odds that a brake line would let go twice in 2 years and neither time was I going down the highway or down a hill?

I had a flawless reputation in the community which worked in his favor also; there was a lot of benefits to JC having me in his life and he used it every way he could. I got preferred rates from different businesses I dealt with. Whereas his step dad used to call JC to get deals, he started calling me because I had better contacts, JC used my contacts, I had his sister work for me and then his son, JC used to offer people he knew jobs working for me then I would have to turn them down, so he would look like the good guy. What God provided JC took away. One incident of this happened about a year before we split. the insurance on my truck was $268 a month, one month just before Christmas we were broke, he had a semi and trailer but hadn’t worked in a couple of months. He was expecting to borrow money from his step dad so I said we could use my insurance money for groceries as long as I got it back when he got his money. I should have known better but we were “trying again” and I was working in good faith.  When he got his money he refused to give me the money for my insurance and the payment bounced. I called the insurance company and they said they would just take two payments the next month, but the next month there were service charges attached and they wanted two payments so they tried to take over $600 which bounced again. Now I owed over $700. I prayed about it and within 2 days I got a call from an old customer saying he was moving his shop and needed me to haul away a bunch of scrap. I got there and not only did he have scrap he had probably a dozen good engines. I took the engines to Vancouver Core who bought engine cores at a better price than scrap and they told me they would give me $500 for 8 of the engines, the rest of the engines and the car parts I had on the truck would have easily come to another $300. It was an answer to my prayers, exactly enough to pay my insurance and service charges up to date. JC saw the engines and immediately said I could get more selling them to a private buyer. I explained that Vancouver core was guaranteed money and my only concern was paying my insurance but he made some phone calls and said he had a buddy who would buy all the engines and I would get at least $1000 for the engines and parts. Initially I told him no, but as you know you don’t say no to a narcissist. He kept saying how dumb I was to not take the better price, I finally told him OK but to tell his friend that I had to have cash in hand that night, no paying later or trading for something; I had to have the cash. I made sure I was very clear and said it calmly and clearly that I had to have that money the next night.

JC’s friend lived in the backwoods of Mission so two days before my insurance was due we drove out there with the engines. I was confident I was going to get my money because I had asked JC so many times if he had told the guy I had to have cash in hand that night and he assured me the guy knew. I bought us supper and of course there was the cost of fuel to get there. It was raining, and there were 3 guys there, all pretty drunk so I told JC I would wait in the truck. It took an hour or so and they unloaded all the engines and most of the antique car parts. JC got a transmission off the guy for part payment which was fine with me, as long as I got the $750 for my insurance. As we were pulling away I asked for my money and he said the guy would pay me the next day. I knew I was not going to see that money, and I never did……………..after we split JC made sure to tell me that he was going to visit the guy; then I knew for sure he had set me up. What God had given JC took away.

I guess I should backtrack a bit here as I have gotten ahead of myself.

If we step back a year or two. JC had gone to Africa and when he came back I found out he had gotten “engaged” to an African woman and was telling her he was going to bring her to Canada, he continued to have personal ads and he also told me he had malaria. My mom had called me saying that my step dad and her wanted me to have some security so they were going to give me my inheritance early and buy me a mobile home. As it turned out they weren’t buying me a mobile home but willing to carry the mortgage on it and I was to pay them back with interest, which was fine with me. I found a beautiful double wide and moved in, JC came by to visit but I wouldn’t allow him to stay the night, it was done for me. he was living in his truck and I really didn’t care. He went to Red Deer and I actually started to date again, a younger man who had been flirting with me for years asked me out and I went. I didn’t have furniture but whatever I needed came to me wihtin hours. All I had to do was think, “I need a TV” and that day in my travels with work I would find a TV on the side of the road with a “Working Free” sign on it. If I needed a couch, that day I would find a couch, and not a ratty couch but a nice couch. Within a couple of weeks I had fully furnished a two bedroom mobile home with a full dining room suite, kitchen table, two bed rooms fully furnished. The economy tanked about 6 months later but I was able to keep my head above water. Every morning I would pray to make a certain amount of money and that is what I would make that day. For example, one day I needed to make $500 in order to meet my mortgage payment on time. I prayed in the morning for $500 and just believed I would make it but as the day went on my hopes faded. There was no scrap anywhere, I had nothing on my truck and I felt the panic growing. I had one more customer to check and they had a 45 gal drum of scrap, maybe a couple hundred dollars worth but I ran it into Surrey anyway, it was better than nothing. The scrap yard was used to me flying through the gate 10 minutes to closing and I didn’t let them down that day. They unload you with a magnet Imageand when they pulled the load off a bunch of it stayed behind, all these square pieces of what looked like steel but it wasn’t magnetic. (steel is magnetic, nonferrous metals such as copper, brass, aluminum and stainless steel are not magnetic, at that time steel was worth $.10/lb.  I went in the office and got a cheque for $157, I was so let down, I was sure God would come through for me, he had never let me down, but it was 5 minutes to closing and there was no way I was going to make enough money that day. As I was leaving I asked if I could unload the non ferrous on my truck and Steve the manager told me to go ahead he’d stay late. We unloaded the pile of nonmagnetic pieces and I went in the office while Steve figured out what it was worth.

Steve- You’re going to like this total

Me – Why what was it?

Steve – It was all 306 Stainless, worth $1 a lb.

The total came to $343, and it was 5:05. I had made my $500.

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( My F550 on a real money making day)

It is possible to do more than survive a narcissist, with God anything is possible. Even a “girlie girl” hauling scrap metal.

Playing Russian Roulette With The Devil

russian roulette woman
Lately it seems every time I turn the TV on there is another true murder mystery where the woman was murdered by her significant other. The last two were on 48 Hours a couple of days ago.

One of the cases took 18 years to solve and they still don’t have a body and in another case they had the legs of one victims and just a skull of another.

The circumstances were different in all the cases, one was the wife of a doctor, another was a hooker and the daughter of the woman, the ages varied but there were two glaring similarities in all every single case.

1. In every single case the woman was swept off her feet by the guy and felt she had met her “soul mate”, he was; too good to be true, treated her like a queen and pressured her to commit and move in together or get married quickly. No matter who voiced concerns about it being too soon the woman was convinced she had met the love of her life.

2. They were murdered just before or after maintaining contact with him after leaving the relationship.

Between meeting and separating the scenario is very much like what we have all experienced. Once the man has the woman “hooked” the mask starts to slip. She finds out that he embellished his past, over stated his income, and he doesn’t have the job or the possessions he professed to have. He borrows a bit of money and pays it back but inevitably he borrows a larger sum and never pays her back, she ends up investing more money into the relationship, he feels entitled. They start to fight about money.

The fights escalate, at first it’s subtle put downs, and then the jealousy starts, she becomes more and more isolated, loses more money, and more and more it becomes clear he is not the man she thought he was when she met him and he has lied about almost everything.

In most of the cases the verbal abuse escalated to physical abuse, which also escalated, In only one case did the abuser leave any evidence of abuse such as bruises.

The only way they were able to solve one case was because the woman had started to dig into her husband’s past and was keeping photo’s of her bruises and evidence of his lies. She had all the evidence she had collected hidden in her closet and the police found it.

I don’t want to be melodramatic, I don’t want to make everyone paranoid and fearful but there is a real disconnect happening with the victims of abuse. Victims become desensitized to the abuse, although they know in their heart that being hit, infidelity, jealous rages, porn addiction,  and the head games narcissists play are wrong; they let it continue. I can only think of one reason this happens; denial.

The victims are hooked on the romance and excitement of the fight and then the reconciliation. I remember how it was, we would fight,(it wouldn’t even be something serious enough to fight about but the simplest of discussions could turn ugly before you know what’s happening) he would storm out with his last words ringing in my ears, “That’s it!! I’m done!!”

I would be angry at first (how did a simple disagreement turn into us breaking up?) but as soon as those words came out of his mouth the panic would set in. I would pace, unable to work or think clearly, food would get stuck in my throat, I would cry uncontrollably, then I couldn’t handle it anymore and I would call him, usually he wouldn’t answer or maybe he would call me and I wouldn’t answer but by the end of the day we would make contact of some sort. Aside from when he was in Africa we talked everyday
Whenever we did talk he would use his “soft” voice and ask how I was. I would say not very good and he would ask if I’d eaten. I would so no and he would tell me to meet him or he would pick me up. If I said I wasn’t hungry he would say, “You have to eat”.
When we saw each other he would be loving, call me “Babe”, pull me close, kiss me and say I love you. We wouldn’t talk about the fight I would just be so happy we weren’t fighting.

It was addicting, romantic, when he looked into my eyes and whispered he loved me and pulled me close it was the best feeling in the world. I remember thinking, “As long as I am in his arms, as long as we have “this” we will be ok, I will be ok”.

I knew it was unhealthy, the fights were crazy, nothing was ever resolved, he was doing things I knew no other woman would tolerate and if I had a friend in a relationship like that I would have told her she was crazy (in fact I had on several occasions, my g/f’s boy friends always hated me because I was no-nonsense. They would stand their ground and the guy would say, “You’ve talked to Carrie again haven’t you?”).

He set things up so he could “rescue” me. I got used to ignoring my gut instincts and making excuses for his behavior. The fact that he disabled my vehicles or that I could predict when he would “injure” himself should have had me running for the hills but I started viewing these things as signs that he loved me and didn’t want to lose me; scary thought processes. I also got hooked on solving the mystery, figuring out what he was up to now; it was like living in a game of Clue only he was the only one committing the crime I just had to figure out what exactly he was doing and with who.

Denial was easy really because if I told anyone what I suspected they thought I was crazy, police didn’t believe me, my best girl friend at the time didn’t believe me; she said that any time she heard him talking about me all he did was brag about my cooking and say how much he loved me. She had seen him bringing me home flowers at least once a week

One of the many times we were split and we’d had a huge fight the night before. I went out to go to work in the morning and he is under my truck doing something. I immediately got that feeling in my stomach and asked him what he was doing under there. He climbed out and said something about he thought he saw something hanging down and then he said, “Get in and pop the hood would ya?” I did, and the time I am thinking, “What is he doing, why did I pop the hood.” he fiddled around under the hood for a while and then closed it. I asked what he was doing and I don’t remember what he said now, I knew nothing about mechanical things back then. I have gotten smarter out of necessity.

I pushed the feeling of doom down and we talked, like nothing had ever happened and he said he would call me later. I went to my first job, kinda surprised that my truck didn’t break down. I went to leave my first job and I had no power steering or brakes. It was nothing short of a miracle that it didn’t happen when I was driving because I probably would have had an accident. If it would have let go on a hilly curvy road I could have died. I had a guy check it out for me and he said the brake line had worn through, when I asked him if someone could have done it on purpose he gave me a strange look and I thought, “yeah , I am just being paranoid.”

There was the time we had another huge fight and were still fighting in the morning. He called later that day and asked if I needed anything from the grocery store, I gave him a short list of things we needed. I got home and there was a very sweet loving letter on the table from him saying he wanted Kris and I to go with him to pick up cars and he would buy us supper. It struck me very strange because he had said nothing to me about it on the phone, he hated Kris and Kris hated him and why hadn’t he just called me and asked me to go with him; why would he go back home and leave the letter where he knew I wouldn’t see it until it was too late? A bit later he called and said he didn’t want to come into the park and could I meet him at the gate and pick up the groceries. I thought he meant the gate to the resort so I walked up, he called me pissed off because I was taking so long, I told him I was at the gate and where was he. He was really pissed off and yelled that he hadn’t meant the gate to the resort, he had meant the gate to where he was doing some side work. It was on the other side of the railway tracks and the only thing on the other side was a lumber mill and the river. When I was almost there the train went flying by and I got immediately sick to my stomach. As the train passed I looked across the tracks and saw the bags of groceries by the tracks and him outside his vehicle by the gate which was quite a distance from the tracks. I started putting the groceries into the trunk of the car and he never came to help me, he just stood there watching me with a look that totally nullified the loving nature of the letter he left on the table. When I got home and started putting the groceries away there was absolutely none of the things I had asked for in the bags.

A couple of days later I came home early and could hear him rummaging through the cupboards and throwing things around.

I don’t want to get side tracked and have written about this before, so I’ve put the links to what happened next below if you are interested.

http://wp.me/s1wKh3-ambushed
http://wp.me/p1wKh3-sI
 
http://wp.me/p1wKh3-t1

The point I am trying to make is this;
We get so desensitized to danger and so used to the erratic behavior and mood swings we don’t listen to our nature instincts that are screaming danger!!

Like I have said many times, I am no better than anyone here, in fact probably a lot worse than many people who come here; for being weak and accepting behavior I should have walked away from years before. But I have to point out the dangerous game women play when they keep going back to the narcissist/psychopath. It is like playing russian roulette; how many times can you go back before he cracks. I started praying he would kill me just to stop the madness.

Narcissists are vindictive, they do not own a conscience, and they hate rejection; the perfect traits for a murderer but what do we do? We taunt him, we break up with him, go no contact and he calls and text messages for weeks and either he gives up or we give in. He tells us he loves us, lavishes attention on us and we know in our gut it is wrong but we go back and the abuse starts again and we do the same dance over and over and over with no thought about when he might reach his breaking point.

I am sure these women who were killed by their soon to be ex or ex N didn’t think the meeting was going to end in their murder. In one instance it was their anniversary, they exchanged cards, he spent the night and the next morning stabbed her 37 times.

I watched Sam Vaknin’s video about giving the Narcissist a second chance and he said what I have said all along. They come back to see if they can. If you take them back they won and the mask falls almost immediately and the abuse worse because he knows he has the victim. He has no respect for her whatsoever and views her as weak and he does not respect weakness in the least. He abhors weakness.

If he has to work at winning the victim back, if she has moved on and is doing well without him he takes it as a personal insult; how dare she succeed without him. Then he wins her over to make her pay for insulting him; he sets out to destroy her.

Either way he loathes you and wants to make you pay.

rhaisson pull trigger

Don’t taunt the devil!! Make your break and stay away, go no contact and stay no contact. I consider myself very lucky to have survived all the times I taunted the devil.