Tag Archives: Gut Instinct

Another Two Women Dead

I don’t post every time I hear of another woman dying at the hand of the man who vowed to love honor and protect her, if I did, I wouldn’t have time for anything else. But when it is this close to home and this horrendous I have to share as a warning to all women who have ever been or are in an abusive relationship.

I spoke about one murder and a child missing in Calgary Alberta on FaceBook . The woman found murdered was a 30 year old single mother, she was found dead in the home she had moved into May 1st with her 5 year old daughter; and her daughter was not there.

I immediately thought “domestic homicide” but they said the father of the little girl was cooperating with the police. I wasn’t surprised when I heard in later news reports that there had been a history of domestic abuse, reported and unreported.  Maybe the ex will be proven innocent, but I will be surprised and God only knows where the little girl is, the poor little thing.

Prior to this case there was the domestic homicide that occurred Sunday afternoon in Port Moody BC, you can read the story here Port Moody fire. In this case a mother of 6 died in hospital after her husband set the house on fire with 5 of the 6 children in the house. The police were called about domestic violence and arrived to find the house engulfed in flames. The children ranging in age from I think 6-18 managed to escape the house from the second floor with help from the neighbors and the trampoline that was in the back yard. Thankfully the children all got out safely, but they will carry deep scars for the rest of their lives. Their father was taken from the home in handcuffs.

I. Can. Not. Say. It. Enough.

Never. Ever. Underestimate. the Evil. Of. the. Narcissist.

If you are on the internet trying to find answers to why your soul mate turned against you trust that you were involved with someone with issues. A normal person does not do the things a narcissist does. Stop doubting yourself, Stop feeling sorry for him, stop thinking you can fix him, it. Get OUT! protect yourself and your children! NOW!!

By the time you have “proof” he is capable of killing you it will be too late! He is not going to tell you he is plotting to kill you, if you ask him he will call you crazy. You tell other people they will probably say you are crazy. You are not crazy! listen to your gut.

 

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I Had To Share This Post From Chump Lady

Here is the post from Chump Lady

As I was reading it I couldn’t help thinking, “Come on lady! you don’t know when to tell him you are dumping his sorry ass? You are still there and willing to stay behind with the children while he goes off to live his life with God knows who?” But I am no one to talk.

When you are in the middle of this kind of shit show you are not thinking straight. It is so obvious to everyone else but your heart and your head are not connecting, you aren’t thinking straight, you are so accustomed to having your feelings ignored and being treated like you are the sick warped one; you can’t think clearly and protect yourself.

When my ex went to Sudan with a Christian Charity to do “missionary” work we were split but still “dating”. He had multiple personal ads from Russian Brides to Ashley Madison (btw I thought Ashley Madison was like Victoria Secret and had no idea it was a cheating site. Naive yes I know). I thought it was the most unselfish thing he had ever done and if he followed through and actually went I would give him another chance when he came back. I allowed him to stay with me until he left and his mother and I promised to contact each other when one of us heard from him because he was going to be so far from any kind of civilization communication was going to be difficult. I won’t go into the whole story because I wrote about it here. I warn you, it is a long post and was written in 2012 so I was not fully healed and still discovering the depth to my ex’s evilness.

After just rereading it I am amazed at what I put up with and what I lived with, all those years wasted worrying about whether he had personal ads, impregnated anyone, still communicating with some young woman in Sudan. I should have kicked his ass to the curb years prior to any of this crazy shit happening.

I hope the woman who wrote to Chump Lady takes her advice to heart but I have my doubts; she will want to be fair and honest and will tell him what she is planning in hopes he will finally realize she is serious and not want to lose her. He will lay some guilt trip on her and she will doubt herself and cling to the dream and hope, just happy that he told her a good enough lie that she could continue to lie to herself.

I am hoping this post will help some of you to realize how out of touch with reality the victim gets and you will truly understand why no contact is so vital to recovery and ever finding happiness.

 

Answer To The One Question That Plagues Every Victim Of A Narcissist

dysfunctonal

With Valentine’s Day tomorrow I am sure there are more than a couple people here second guessing their relationship with the narcissist, or whether the N was a narcissist at all. If they are stalking the N’s social media and talking to friends or still communicating with the narc; they no doubt are being fed info designed to make them doubt themselves and the dynamics of the whole relationship.

If they are managing to truly stay no contact; then they are imagining all the wonderful things the narcissist is doing for the new woman. AND if you aren’t doing these things, you are a better person than I was for the first couple of years. I had a constant dialogue going on in my head. I would allow my inner demons convince me that “if only” I had done this or that I would be the one in his arms right now; then the realistic, rational me would argue with my critical self and eventually the rational me would win over, but it was a lengthy and tiring battle for several years.

just the way I am

One of the main reasons victims of a narcissist stick around as long as they do is because they are living on the hope that the narcissist will return to the man they fell in love with. They have invested so much time and effort into the relationship; years of explaining why they get angry, how important honesty is in a relationship, why it hurts when he has personal ads and they are afraid the minute they dump his sorry ass he will “get it” and some other woman will benefit from all their hard work.

When the relationship finally ends, he immediately finds the “love of his life”, she is perfect and the victim is the one who made his life hell. More than likely friends were lost because he slandered the victim.

If you were smart, you went no contact, stopped checking his FaceBook and dumped any friends who remained friends with both of you (because, let’s be frank here; he was abusive and treated you like crap on the sole of his shoe; (the only soul he has) If they can remain friends with him, they are not friends of yours.)so you have no idea if he is still ecstatically happy or not. You would love to know that she got the same treatment as you and he hadn’t changed at all.

bat shit crazy

Well, I am here to tell you, HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF, toxic behavior such as what the narcissist displayed does not just come and go depending on who the person is involved with. A healthy person does not turn into an asshole because of the person they are involved with.

I can hear you all saying that you weren’t perfect and you did things you are not proud of while you were with him.  I hear ya! I did things I had never done before, I had total melt downs, became a screaming crazy woman at times, I was suspicious of everything and had never been a jealous person. Once when I found another personal ad I keyed his truck in a fit or rage. At times I felt I had lost my ability to think rationally or deal with emotions in a healthy way. Nothing will make a person lose their ability to remain calm and rational faster than knowing you have caught him red handed yet totally deny it or worse, blame you. Or when you have spent days planning what you are going to say, choosing your words with utmost care, cautiously picking a  time when he won’t be tired, rehearsing what you will say, making sure to control your tone of voice so as not to be accused of “screaming” or raising your voice; only to have him totally twist your words, change the subject to something you did wrong 5 years ago, simply ignore you or end up storming out and you end up apologizing once again.

just denyword salad

Come on; who wouldn’t eventually crack and act crazy.

If you are honest with yourself, what you thought was the most healthy connection you have ever had in your life; the person who you felt knew you better than anyone else on earth and STILL loved you unconditionally, turned into the most bizarre experience of your life, you entered the twilight zone, you were put on a roller coast ride through the house of horrors and you didn’t have a clue how you got there and certainly didn’t have a clue how to get off the ride.

I am happy to inform you that in the past week I have had 3 separate confirmations that they do not change.

  1. Some of you will remember when I started to date the mechanic at work (lets call him Chuck) and he turned out to be a narcissist. It was not crushing for me because I know what to look for and had suspected it almost from the beginning. In fact it was reassuring to know my gut had been right and when the time came I was able to walk away without a backwards glance. That is not to say I didn’t have my moments of self doubt, it is only human; and by the way; what separates us from the narcissists in the world.

    Anyway……… I was on Facebook recently and noticed on a friend’s FB that a woman was slagging Chuck. She was obviously hurting so I went to her FaceBook and discovered they had been living together for over a year and he had brought a woman home to her house and had been staying out all night, you know; all the typical stuff. I decided to PM her through FB and suggested she might be interested in reading my blog. She messaged back and asked me about him and I simply told her that I had dated him briefly and knew for a fact that he screws around on every woman he has ever been with.

    She came back to me a few days later and said she had asked him about me and he had told her that I had chased him, that he had not been the least bit interested and turned me down flat and I had been a vindictive bitch because he rejected me. I felt a fleeting urge to defend myself and make her believe me. But then I thought to myself, I really do not want to get into the middle of a “he said, she said drama”;  it really does not matter to me. I told her that I didn’t care if she believed me or not, that I had contacted her in order to let her know she wasn’t alone and I really didn’t want to get involved in their relationship. If she needed to know what she was dealing with she could read my website. I was sure she would be shocked at how similar her relationship was to every other victim of a narcissist. I have a sneaky suspicion that she went back to him. I also suspect she will be visiting my blog.

     I recently changed my phone number and sent the number to my contact list and I heard from an old girlfriend who has been staying with a friend for 5 days because her abusive boy friend almost killed her (again) and the neighbors called the police. I was supportive but secretly fear she will go back again and stand by him when he goes to court. I fear she is in so deep she won’t ever get out. I listen to her and hear myself 6 years ago and wonder how I ever got in that deep because I will be honest I recently checked out his FaceBook after years of no contact and I can not for the life of me figure out why I thought he was so sexy or why I thought I couldn’t live without him.

  2. About a week ago I got a Messenger pm from a girl who dated a good friend (Ben), of James and I. I had stopped talking to Ben because he tried to remain friends with James and I. I tried my best to be mature and ok with it but it hurt to hear about James and how happy he was with Marisa and how nice Marisa was.
    Why do friends think the victim wants to hear that shit? Ben and I met for dinner one day and he started to “verify” facts he had heard from James. I was not going to defend myself to James’s lies and I felt a true friend should know me well enough to not even question me. That was the last time we talked.

    One of the first things this girl asked me was, “Where are you living now?”
    Bells and whistles started going off in my head. 

    A day and 1/2 went by before I messaged her back, “It is great to hear from you but I unfortunately I found out the hard way not to give out personal information to anyone from my past who knows James.” She apologized and said she hadn’t seen James in ages. We exchanged a couple of messages over 2 days and I haven’t heard anything more. She did say that the last time she talked to Ben he had told her that James was “really messed up and lost”.

    I was so tempted to ask what “messed up and lost” meant, but I didn’t want to know THAT badly.

    Why didn’t I want to know all the sordid details? because, believe it or not; I don’t care.

    Five years out of the relationship I will gladly spend Valentine’s Day sleeping in my car, in Tim Horton’s parking lot and not have one moment of self doubt or fantasizing about how good it could have been “if only”.

    I finally “get it” and you will too one day. One day, maybe one year, maybe 3 or 5 years from now you will know in all certainty that you were in bed with a very sick and twisted man and he will never be any different.

 So I just want to say happy vdIt’s just one day and a commercialized one at that. And if your narc was anything like James

you were disappointed or had given up on him doing anything special for you especially if it was expected or wanted.

I remember when I was in my 20’s and 30’s, Valentine’s Day was spend anxiously waiting to see how many guys bought me flowers. All the girls in the office watched the door for the florist delivery person and then waited with bated breath to see who they were for. Our “worth” growing with each bouquet. How silly.

I Keep Praying For God To Give Me A Sign

god removes people

“I keep praying for God to give me a sign”, was a comment made by a woman on my Face Book. I was immediately transported 15 years back in time; ………I am in my garden, about a year into my relationship with James, with tears streaming down my cheeks, a glass of wine in one hand and my garden rake in the other, face to the sky, pleading for God to please give me a some sort of sign telling me what I should do. I don’t know what kind of sign I was expecting, writing in the sky? a bolt of lightening? a booming voice saying, “Run you fool run!!” God can only do so much and I wanted some sort of undeniable concrete evidence that I should leave or stay.

For 9 years I prayed for God to give me a sign. Looking back I can imagine God slapping his forehead in frustration wishing he could slap ME upside the head with a 2×4. As I was sounding like a broken record, crying, begging for a sign telling me what I should do; I can imagine God wanting to scream, “What more do you want?? You don’t want the truth so stop asking for it!”

It isn’t that God didn’t give me signs, tons of them, time after time after time………

  •  I had never snooped on a partner in my life but out of the blue I was hit by some force to check James’ barrack box. When I opened the box there was a notebook right on top. I opened the notebook at a random page that described how he had hit the young girl he had always told me left him for no reason. His words jumped out at me, “Just like all the rest, she wouldn’t shut up; so I hit her.” He went on to describe how when they got home he took the phone in the bedroom and called her family and friends and complained about her. How he was cold and uncaring and went to sleep leaving her crying, pregnant and alone. He left to do a run the next morning and called her 1/2 way through the next day to say, “I love you” and she had replied, “You woke me up to say that?” and hung up. She never answered the phone again and when he got home the apartment was empty and she was gone. Did I take it as a sign that I should also pack my bags and run? Oh no, I took it to mean I should prove to him I wasn’t going to leave him. I knew how much he loved me, how much her leaving had hurt him; after all he had told me, no woman had ever loved him like I did. He had thought he had loved before but I had shown him what true love was all about.
  • Or when time after time some bizarre “co-incidence” would reveal another one of his lies.
  • Or when, while looking for scrap paper I found proof he had forged my signature and altered my police statement.
  • Or when I accidentally ran into the guy who was on the way to the bank to get the money to buy a truck from James, MY truck.
  • Or how every time we split I did SO much better financially and everything I needed was miraculously given to me.

I could go on and on, after all it was 10 years of gas lighting, living with Jekyll and Hyde, “I love you today”, “I keep telling you my love is cycleable”, “I can’t live with your warped view of reality” “I can’t live with your dysfunctional way of thinking”, “Of course I am looking for other women, look what I live with.” “I wouldn’t look elsewhere if you trusted me”. How many times did he tell me it was over? how many times did I leave just to have him beg me back, making promises he never kept? How many personal ads did I find without even having to look for them? How many jobs did he lose because he was “falsely” accused of stealing? How many friends did he lose because he was “falsely” accused of stealing? How many times did we move to another town to get a “fresh start”?

Honor Thy Narcissistic Mother

How many signs did I need? I ignored the obvious signs that I was with one majorly fucked up psychopath and chose to interpret obscure “signs” to mean I should stay.

  • Like, every time we had a big fight he injured himself.
  • Or how every time we had a major fight or split up my truck broke down and I had to call James to rescue me.

And I interpreted it to mean God was showing us that we needed each other and should stay together.

  • I had 3 vehicles stolen in as many years and I found spare transfer and tax forms he had forged my signature on.
  • My brake line broke 3 times in 5 years, plus numerous other suspicious mechanical failures.

I totally pushed the thought out of my mind that he was responsible for it all, which would have proven without a shadow of a doubt that this guy was fricken nuts and dangerous!!

We all have free will and we all can choose to interpret answers to our prayers any way we want. When God answers prayers, he does not always give us the answer we want to hear. And if we are honest with ourselves, we don’t need God to give us answers; all we need to do is face the truth that keeps slapping us across the face.

Sleeping Single In A Double Bed

Sleeping single in a double bed

When I went to bed last night I went with Stella. When I woke up about 3 am I had four big dogs in bed with me, all who weigh somewhere between 65 and 85 lbs. I had one behind my knees, one with their head on my shoulder, another one against my stomach and one at my feet. I didn’t dare move because that could cause a chain reaction I don’t want to experience at 3 am. Best to leave sleeping dogs lay.

I have not been around much lately because I have been trying to get myself centered again, figure out where I am going and what path I am supposed to be on. You see, often in life just when you think you are on the right path, life throws you a curve ball and throws you off course. Sometimes we are so focused on what we think should be happening in our lives we totally miss the fact that maybe we are on the wrong path.

If you are anything like me you hate to give up, on anything, a relationship, a job, a friendship, you follow through, you carry through on promises, you are loyal and …… well…….. rather stubborn. Then the ego gets involved, we don’t want to fail, we don’t want to admit we weren’t able to make it work. We get confused about some basic truths and we need to sit back, take a deep breath and get out of our own way. We do not always see things clearly, we do not always know what is best for us and we do not know when to let something go and that walking away is not failing……. sometimes walking away is the only way to succeed, the only smart thing to do.

When you are a strong, independent woman it is really hard to sit back and let things unfold the way they need to and not try to make them unfold as we think they should. We waste a lot of energy fighting the natural progression of things.

I would not have been with James 10 years if I would have let things just run their course, if I hadn’t been trying to fix things all the time and just let him prove himself to be who he was I would have been out of there years prior!!

I would have saved myself a whole lot of grief if I would not have defined myself as “The Lady Witha Truck”, I clung to that truck and business like it was me, my identity, my worth.

So many women attached their identity and worth to

  • The man in their life
  • The house they live in
  • The job the do
  • The money they have
  • I was reading a comment on Chumplady’s site the other day and the victim of infidelity was obsessed the new woman was using her stove.

Now I know what she is really upset about is not the stove but that is what she has chosen to focus on. We don’t realize we are doing it until we look back years later with a clear head. But I believe we can do it at the time it is happening if we force ourselves to, DO NOTHING!

  • do not respond
  • do not check FB
  • do not text demanding answers
  • do not beg
  • do not try to figure out why – why does not matter once you know he is a narcissist. I know I did it, I snooped, I tried to make things “add up” but they never do and even when you do figure out that he was cheating like you always suspected; it is fleeting gratification. So you proved you were right all along and should have left years ago, congratulations.

When your heart is breaking being “right” is a small consolation.

What will help you to heal and get back on track with your life is to stop placing your happiness on the actions of someone else and figuring out what will make you feel happy and fulfilled. And don’t you dare say, “All I wanted was for him to be honest and faithful. I just wanted the man I met back” Because that is not an option. That is what YOU wanted, what you fought for for so long and how did that work out for you? THAT is not an option so strike it off your list.

If the next thing on your list is, “Find a man who will love me and appreciate me for who I am.” strike that off your list also because no man is going to “give” you happiness and self worth; not long term.

You need to start listening to your little inner voice, not the one that is screaming you are not worthy; the tiny voice that speaks the truth, the one that tells you that you deserve to be happy, loved and you are enough.

When you live true to yourself you can not help but be happy, when what people think of you doesn’t determine your value you can’t help but feel you are enough.

Some people might think, how can she talk about self worth and inner peace when her life is in a shambles? That is the amazing thing, my life is in a shambles financially and I still have inner peace, I have disagreements with people and I still have inner peace, I sleep alone and my bed is full of love and peace (until the dogs wake up).

I forgot and slid into my old ways for a few months just before Christmas and I needed to step back and reevaluate my goals, adjust my attitude and reassess my expectations and how I need to proceed.

There was a time I had the time to dedicate to this blog to answer everyone who came here, give long in depth replies with links to other posts and sites and it was very rewarding and helped a lot of people. It is not realistic for me to keep dedicating that much time when I need to support myself. Yes, I do get donations and some people are extremely generous, every single donation I get brings tears to my eyes because whether it is $5 or hundreds of dollars, it shows me people care and I am making a difference in people’s lives.

Not only do I need to make money, I am stagnating repeating myself over and over again. I have never been happy in a job that doesn’t challenge me to learn and grow. Repetition is poison for my attitude and self esteem.

The pressure to make money made  me back slide into some unhealthy choices; one of which was to go to Hinton to paint. My mom was the first to say she thought it was a mistake because of my heart; I knew it deep down but my ego wouldn’t allow me to admit I can’t do what I used to plus I was afraid of what other people would think of me if I turned down work when I need money so badly. Well when I got to Hinton it became obviously really quickly that it was a mistake. I took myself aside and had a stiff talking to myself, was risking a heart attack worth $10/hr, (plus I was expected to buy my own food)? Was a friendship? was there anything more important than my health? If I had another stroke and ended up partially paralyzed would anyone praise me for over working myself and would it make me feel ok about being paralyzed? I had to admit I was jeopardizing my whole future for false pride and worrying what other people would think. So I told my friend I could not do the job and I took the bus home that morning at 4 am. I apologized, I felt bad about leaving her stuck but I had made a mistake and it was better to admit my mistake than try to make something work that was not in my best interest. We ALL make mistakes or bad choices, you CAN change your mind!

In my life I have said I am sorry many times just to keep the peace but you know what? keeping the peace does not give you inner peace. In fact it can create a ton of inner conflict and self doubt. Keeping the peace is not always the right thing to do, living true to yourself is the right thing to do.

I am working at the golf course and really enjoying it right now, it is what I do well and it is a bit of a learning curve.

I plan on being here on a more consistent basis and hope to get into some sort of rhythm soon.

I just wanted to say that it doesn’t matter where you are in life, one year after leaving the N, 5 years, 25 years or if you were raised by an N; you always have to stop, reflect and double check you are pursuing the right things and giving value to the right things; things that are in YOUR best interest. If you aren’t, then reset your course.

 

Deception and Dating After the Narcissist

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I recently received an email from a regular visitor to this blog, Stephen Bach, who has a blog called The Narcissist’s Son commenting about a recent post of mine; Judgement Day.
He was question whether my post might cause confusion for some people reading it because I was warning women to be wary of a man who asked too many questions early in the relationship; in other words if the guy is arrogant and self-centered RUN and if he is too attentive and wants to know all about you RUN! It doesn’t leave a woman many choices. This is the conversation we had on the topic which will hopefully clarify any confusion my post caused. ( If it seems a little disjointed in spots it’s because I removed some personal sections of the emails from Stephen to protect his privacy)
The email from Stephen:
I was reading your Judgement Day post and had a comment that I was thinking of putting in the comments section but thought better of it.  I don’t want to incite others.  I do think the Judgement Day post is excellent and you expound on many excellent points.
My comment is this:
You mentioned that you found an N’s initial approach of getting the woman talking as a sign of an N.  While I do agree with this in concept, I also disagree with it at the same time.  Yes, an N will pump someone for personal information during the love bombing phase in order to collect information to later be used against you, but I don’t feel that just because a man asks a bunch of questions that it makes him an N.  During the initial phases of a relationship, I will ask many questions to try to establish our compatibility.  I will talk about myself when asked a direct question, but I am also very interested in learning to understand my potential partner’s desires, hobbies, and passions.  I think it’s very important that there is some common ground with interests, etc, or the relationship will have a very difficult time when there is only 1 activity that we like to do together (1 activity as an example situation).  
So the question becomes, how does a woman establish if she is being love bombed or if she has met someone that is taking a genuine interest in her?
I agree, listening to someone talk about themselves ad nauseum on the first date is a huge turnoff.  I’ve had it happen a few times.  If I’m constantly being interrupted and I feel like she’s orating her resume to me, it’s gonna be our last date.
Thanks Carrie!
Stephen
Stephen, even as I was writing the post I had the same thoughts as you. It just so happens that when I met JC I was actually waiting for a date to arrive that I met off POF. JC had said to call him if the date didn’t work out. Well the guy was what most people would consider a narcissist, full of himself, loud, everything had a price tag that he made sure everyone in the bar heard, ie: how much his car cost, how much his suit cost etc. He was a pompous ass lawyer and I couldn’t wait to get out of there. 

I went home and called the handsome stranger I had just met in the bar a few hours before. JC was the opposite, he was interested in me and what I liked but was (appeared) totally open and honest about himself. I could not believe my good fortune, especially after the hellish hour and 1/2 I had just spent with the lawyer.
It is very hard to know and that is what makes them so hard to detect. They have perfected effective communication, (in most cases) they are the ultimate sales man not your stereotypical car salesman, loud and brash.
 
I think the key is to take things slow and see if what they tell you about themselves is the truth, which can also be difficult. Like with James, he was new to town, didn’t have any long-term friends and the friends he had, seemed to think he was a great guy (none of those people are his friends now) He was in school to change his career due to a motorcycle accident so no way of knowing how his work ethic was. Many times a narc is new to town because it makes it easier to reinvent himself. I didn’t learn the truth about some of the things James told me in those first few months until 10 years later and many of them didn’t get revealed as lies until I was fully committed in the relationship. Mind you we did move in together rather quickly (about 4 months) and I think that is key; not get in over your head before at least a year has passed. Had I waited a year I doubt I ever would have moved in at all, that is why they push for commitment so hard, they know they are on borrowed time, their lies are going to start becoming obvious and they want the victim firmly hooked before that happens.
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There are so many factors but I think the big one is………………taking it slow!!! and listening to your gut.
Thanks for bringing it up, you are right and it makes it even harder for a nice guy to be believed and find a nice person.
 
Do you think I should change the post? I don’t want to mislead anyone.
Carrie
Great to hear back from you!

Wow, that’s really interesting how you met JC!  A question – did you tell JC during that first conversation about how much of a pompous jerk the guy that you were meeting in the bar was?  If so, you unwittingly told JC exactly what NOT to do in order to ‘win’ you.  Plus if JC was validating your experience with Mr. Pompous during that first conversation, you immediately would feel a bond with him.  
I completely agree that it’s hard to know what a potential partner is truly like during the initial dating phase. It’s very easy for someone to morph into someone else for a rather significant period of time.  Eventually their true colors will show, but it’s possible for a true master love bomber to keep up a good act for a very long time.  I totally agree, time is the best predictor of long-term potential.  I also agree, we have to trust our gut instincts.  If our gut tells us it’s too good to be true, it probably is.  If our gut tells us things are moving too fast, they probably are.  I’m always amazed at people that are shacking up within a month of meeting each other.  That is a total recipe for disaster.  
(I am learning to) build trust in myself that I am capable of spotting the red flags and capable of keeping myself from getting entangled in another dysfunctional situation. I think one of the major keys is to be able to trust ourselves and our instincts.  If we see red flags, what does our gut tell us?  Does our gut tell us that the red flag that’s flying is a serious issue or is it just him / her having a bad day and they truly don’t mean to behave that way?  Another behavior I had to learn was to confront bad behavior when I was exposed to it.  I often would never do this, and let my abusers get away with bad behavior because I did not hold them accountable.  When we confront the behavior, how does he / she respond?  Does he / she say “tough, it’s who I am, take it or leave it”?  Do they attempt to minimize the issue and rewrite our perceptions?  Do they gaslight and pretend it never happened?  Or do they own the behavior, offer a reasonable explanation, and / or apologize?   I feel that their response to being confronted regarding their behavior is one of the most indicative signs of someone who could be an abuser.  
I don’t think your post is necessarily misleading, although it could be confusing.  I would hate to think a woman would read that post and interpret it as “if he’s being nice, he’s really a jerk”.  That could have the effect of essentially closing the door on just about any man:  If he’s being a pompous jerk he’s not nice, and if he’s showing interest in you he’s not nice either, so what’s left?  I do agree that often (even for ‘normal’ people) the initial conversation and approach can be misleading with regard to a person’s true intentions.  I feel the key is to be on the lookout for abusive behavior and boundary issues, just like we might be on the lookout for other features of a potential mate.  I know for me, that as shallow as it sounds, I have to feel some sort of physical attraction or it just won’t work.  I have tried to date women that I don’t feel attracted to and it’s very difficult if not impossible after a while.  It’s part of who I am, and I know it’s shallow, but it doesn’t appear to be something I can change, so I’ve grown to accept it.  
Have a wonderful day!
Stephen
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Stephen, I had to laugh when you asked if I mentioned that the lawyer was a pompous ass because once I studied Narcissists I realized what I had done, I have always been an open book. I have always thought it was best to be open and honest, especially when first meeting a guy, why pretend to be something I am not, the guy might as well know what he’s getting into. I never play games, or try to change a guy and it had always worked for me, I always had an “if he likes me fine if not that’s fine too” attitude………….this is how our first few conversations went. The night we met I told him I was meeting this guy I’d met on a dating site. He asked what I thought of on-line dating, (he had never tried it himself) I said that I hadn’t had any luck and found a lot of the guys just wanted to talk over the net and I was an old-fashioned girl who liked face to face or at the very least a phone call. 

Later he gave me his number. (putting the control in my hands, or so I thought)

(I had already given him a HUGE hint by saying I wasn’t into the internet and valued face to face)
When I called him later that night the first thing he said was, “How was your date?”
My exact words were, “He was a pompous ass lawyer.”
(how is that for putting a bulls-eye on myself?) He laughed. I thought he thought I was cute and witty, now I realize he was laughing with glee at how easy this was going to be.
 I refuse to never date again because I am afraid, there are N’s every where and we will never be able to eradicate them from the world, we had better be prepared to deal with them and be able to protect ourselves. They don’t attack the weak, they attack anyone and they are masters at impersonating a caring human being, perfect for the target but we don’t have to believe everything everyone tells us, we can date someone for a few months while we get to know them and pick up on the little things that give them away. The little giveaways’ are there as long as we listen to our gut and not bury them because we don’t want to face the truth. As much as the narcissist is cunning and a master manipulator we do have to take responsibility for part of our own deception, we lied to ourselves and that is the most dangerous part. We saw the truth and chose not to believe our own instincts, that is what really got us in trouble and hurt.
As for the attraction thing, I agree…… there was a huge physical attraction with James right from the start and that is the way I have always been. If I am not physically attracted to a man I just do not date him, he could be a great guy but if that physical attraction isn’t there I can’t get past it, i have tried and after a while it just isn’t fair to the other person. That is part of the reason I don’t think I will date again, at my age a lot of men don’t take care of themselves and they have a big beer gut etc and I know I am older and not as attractive as i used to be but I still take care of myself and haven’t let myself go. I am just not attracted to a guy if he is over weight and out of shape. it might be different if we grew old together, I don’t know what I would have felt like if James had let himself go, I can’t imagine not loving him no matter how he aged. 
Well this got really long.
If you don’t mind I would like to use some of our conversation in a post, I will eliminate the personal stories, give you credit and link your site but you made some good points and I can link it to the other post and then people get all sides of the issue.Hi Carrie –

Sure, you are welcome to use whatever you would like in a post from our conversation.  I’d be honored 🙂
Isn’t it wild how when we look back at those initial interactions we find that we literally spoon fed vital information to our abuser?  With my 2nd exW, she had shown me SO many red flags that even in my lifelong state of denial of red flags I saw them.  Yet I married her anyway.  She was truthfully very smart and knew exactly how to manipulate me.  She was a master gaslighter, and we would have conversations about “issues” and then she would go off and behave like our conversation never happened and I would be left dumbfounded.  I mistakenly felt that if I loved her enough that she would see just how wonderful I was and stop abusing me. (yeah, right!  I took the same approach with my narcissist mother and look how that one turned out!).  She had absolutely zero respect for me, and would openly flirt with other men right in front of me.  It was disgusting.  She had every trait of BPD.  The whole relationship was a total nightmare.  I knew she was a train wreck from the day I met her.  When I met her, she was sleeping with a married man and I knew it.  I should have never pursued her.
That’s horrible about JC and his porn / sex addiction.  I agree, the lying about it is the worst part. I’m surprised that he never contracted an STD and brought it home to you if he was philandering that much.  I don’t doubt for every incident that you knew about there were probably 5 that you didn’t know about.  In my opinion, cheating is the ultimate disrespect in a relationship. I think you were more than fair when you told JC that some people are OK with having an open relationship, but I’m not.  I wonder if he was more lying to you or to himself when he said he wanted a committed relationship with you?  One of the aspects of N behavior I find ironic is that they are often looking for ‘ideal’ love, and then turn around and destroy any chance they might have of getting into a situation that might resemble ‘ideal’ love. My BPD exW used to call me her ‘split apart’, like we were made for each other and then go back to flirting with any guy (or gal) that would pay attention to her.  She had the audacity to once tell me that I should be proud that so many men hit on her and it shouldn’t bother me.  Yet, if a woman ever came onto me at a gig, she would be furiously jealous.  Someone hitting on her is one thing, her flirting back is an entirely different animal. 

  I can understand how someone that had recently come out of a bad situation would have a hard time ever letting themselves be vulnerable again, but eventually we have to make peace with it all. I refuse to be defined by my past.  If I refuse to date I let my past define me and my abusers win.  They have beaten me down to a point where I am not even willing to risk a relationship again.  I will not let that happen.  That being said, I’m currently planning on taking at least 3 months or so off of dating.  I’ve been dating a lot and haven’t really found anyone that has real LTR potential, and I need a break (that would be me listening to my gut :))

ImageStephen, I don’t think James ever intended to be in a committed relationship, I think he “wanted” me, he wanted to own me, I was what he needed at the time to convince his family that he was a nice guy, (he had totally annihilated the relationship with his family, been disowned by his step dad and needed credibility, respectability and to appear changed) and I was just the woman to do that for him. The first half of the relationship I truly believed he was misunderstood and his greatest crime was to be naive and get involved with the wrong type of people. He may have been possessive of me but I know now (even though at the time I thought we had a special love and bond that few people ever find) that I was only there as a tool and he had full intentions of screwing around. He knew he could not be faithful, he knew he needed the attention of other women in order to survive. When he came back to me the last time saying he had been given 6 months to live and I was all the woman he would ever need, he was living with another woman in another province; yet he promised total honesty and fidelity. He was trucking and needed a woman in BC because he was doing a monthly run to Vancouver, I was nothing more than a convenient source of narcissistic supply; the “sure thing” in BC. He actually referred to me as a “sure thing” and I thought he was just struggling to find the right words and not being honest. I think sometimes they actually are honest and we interpret it the way we want to and they just allow us to take it anyway works for us. One thing I know for sure, James never loved me. 
When he met his new woman he had different needs, he needed a roof over his head, stability, and he was looking to retire. He set out to find a woman with money. Again he was “honest” with me when he explained why he chose her over the woman I had caught him with. He had been dating 10 different women and had narrowed it down to one who I gather was good-looking and into him AND had a home but the house was tied up because her husband’s name was on title and he was fighting her for the house. James’s exact words were, “Her husband is fighting her over the house and it just wasn’t going to work for her and I so I went with M.” 
He was also honest with me when after we split he said he was “as faithful as he could be”. 
No matter how I look at the relationship, No matter what he did or how many lies he told, it all boils down to one fact that would have saved me 9 years of heart ache………………….
I did not listen to my gut and react to the deception as I felt I should have, I can not count how many times in the last 9 1/2 years my gut was screaming for me to run from the relationship and I didn’t listen. I thought leaving him was more than I could bare. Yet here I am after all those years of abuse, without him and still standing. We can all survive a broken heart even if we don’t think we can and it is always easier to leave sooner than later. Never before in any of my relationships did I have such indecision about leaving so I am going back to the way I used to date, when things don’t feel right I am not going to doubt myself.



Judgement Day – Why Women Stay

When you hear women’s stories of their relationship with a narcissist and where they are left by the narcissist when the relationship ends you hear the same complaints.

1. They were strong independent women and can’t believe how dependent on the N they’ve become

2. No matter what they had going into the relationship, they are left destitute or fighting for what is rightfully theirs.

3. They feel alone, that people don’t understand what they have been through and unable to explain what they have been through or why they stayed, which doesn’t help them get the empathy and support they need.

4. They feel judged and blamed by society, friends, family and of course the narcissist.

It is obvious that the narcissist’s main method of controlling the victim is through finances.

I had never taken shit from any man, I had always maintained control in relationships. I hate to put it that way, it is not that I was controlling, (there is a difference) but I protected my best interests and never handed over control of my money or life to anyone; before JC.

When you have money, equity, credit it is a lot easier to stay independent and self-sufficient so it makes sense that the N would focus on gaining control of the finances in the relationship. It’s not like you were stupid and just handed over the money, it is obviously not a habit of yours to meet a man and hand over your  money and your assets; if it was you wouldn’t have had anything to hand over to the N. It isn’t that he put some sort of spell on you or hypnotized you (although it can feel like it at times). He is a master manipulator and pathological liar who knew exactly what buttons to push and how to kick start your natural instincts to do what he wants. You were working under the assumption you were dealing with a normal loving partner who only had your best interests at heart. You had no reason to believe that he was out to destroy you, even when his actions indicated that was his intention his words belied his actions and you became confused and more easily coerced.

Once the downward spiral starts it gains momentum quickly and before you know it you are totally under his control, destitute and wondering what happened.

I have researched how the N got this power over the victim to manipulate them into giving up everything for the N and it really is very simple and comes down to the narcissist using our natural instinct and responses against us. Either they have studied it or they have picked up on it through trial and error. The huge advantage they have over us, the victims, the average normal person; is that they do not feel like we do, they do not have guilt or a conscience and do not respond to stimuli like a normal person so they are immune to these techniques and can use them on others. They may not know why it works, they just know it does so they use it to get what they want.

You can be aware of these normal automatic reactions and protect yourself from falling victim to your natural knee jerk reactions.

First, think back to when you first met the narcissist, it is probably in the first meeting or first few dates you felt you had met your soul mate, once that feeling is embedded in your physic it is very hard to erase it. How does he (she) do it?

They mirror you back to yourself. I watched a video this morning on how to make someone fall in love with you and keep them forever (or as long as you want). This guy swears he can teach anyone how to get someone to fall in love with you in 3 simple questions, in other words, in a matter of a few hours you can have someone “head-over-heels, can’t-believe-their-good-fortune, heart-pounding, can’t-stop-thinking-about-you”, in love.

Most of us remember the narcissist as being totally self-centered and talking about himself, only interested in himself but if you think back to when you met him I am willing to bet that was not the case. The majority of victims will say that the narcissist was attentive and wanted to know all about the them. When you hear how simple it is you will really feel foolish, it is effective communication 101, but something most men don’t do. Most men feel they must impress the new woman so they talk all about themselves and their accomplishments etc and women have been taught to listen politely and be agreeable, so when a man shows an interest in them and wants to know all about them, they are flattered immediately.

All the N has to do is ask a simple casual question like, “what brought you here today” or “what do you do for a living.” They only have to get the victim talking about themselves and then find out what they are passionate about. ie: what they do for a living or what they would like to do for a living. Not fire 20 questions but casually ask and then wait to see what the victim says and feed it back to them almost word for word. If the person says they love their job the N goes with that and feeds it back to them, “So you love your job, what exactly do you love about it?” Or if the victim says they hate their job the N would respond with, “You hate your job, what else would you like to do?” when the victim says they are passionate about animals and would like to work with animals the N simply feeds it back to the victim, “You are passionate about animals and want to work with them, what brought out this passion for animals?” that gets the victim expounding on themselves and what they are passionate about and because the N is feeding them their own words they feel totally understood.

It doesn’t matter that the passion is related to their work because it activates that part of the brain related to passion, consequently the victim now feels passionate in the N’s company and associates passion with being with the N. If the N is nodding his head, looking at you with interest and seems impressed with your passion you will feel you have met your soul mate, that he accepts you and loves you just the way you are, you have just met the man of your dreams. I remember thinking I had to keep dating JC because I had never had anyone love me and accept me like he did. I was not that into him, it was that he was that into me.

Interest + Values + Passion = Love of your life.

Once they have you hooked into believing they are in love with you, they use something called the “Benjamin Franklin Effect” read more here  and that is to get you to do a favor for them. They get you to invest in the relationship, it may not be financial, more than likely it isn’t anything very big, because they want you to do it willingly. they will word it in such a way that you don’t feel pressured to do it and then they show appreciation for your effort. (by the way, this technique is used by businessmen when they want to influence people and is taught in courses on how to manipulate people for business or personal gain)

For instance, on JC and my first real date (we had talked several times on the phone prior to our first date) he mentioned he had just bought a new car and had no way of getting his old car home from the place he had bought his new car. I offered to help him the next day. It was nothing for me, it wasn’t a date, I was just going to meet him the next day and drive his old car back to his place for him. We met up the next day but he decided we didn’t have time to drive the car back to his place so we just moved it to a friend’s who lived close by, then he had to leave to go to his mom’s for the weekend. He was very grateful for the favor but I still owed him the favor of getting the car home to his place which led to another date. (pretty tricky. It also works if you can get a person to commit to helping you in some way because most people strive to keep their promises and will feel they owe you) He could not believe I was willing to do that for him. The next time we saw each other he asked me to come for supper and we would move the car, the minute I walked in the door he dragged me into the bedroom and we didn’t end up moving the car until the next morning, making me late for work.  I was now; subconsciously really invested in the relationship and more apt to invest more.

In business they teach people that if they have an adversary they want to win over, get them to do you a favor; something as simple as lend you a book, give you the phone number of someone, anything small. The minute they invest even in the smallest way they will start to be more interested in you and convince themselves they even like you. It is cognitive dissonance, when a person does something out of their comfort zone and rationalizes why they did it, they have to like the person because they did a favor for them. the more they invest the more they are apt to do and the more they convince themselves they like you. try it!

It is a proven fact of human nature that if a person invests in a relationship they are more likely to stay in the relationship and invest more; obviously the problem will automatically grow all by itself. The more you invest the more you are inclined to invest, the more committed you are to whatever you invested in. Make sense? the more you invest and lose the more apt you are to invest even more trying to recoup what you have los or justify losing what you have already invested. Rationally you would think a person would cut their losses and not invest more into a losing proposition but that is not human nature. Human nature is to rationalize the loss so they can accept it. Cognitive dissonance comes into play once again. The victim can not accept that they gave up control to someone who is evil so they refuse to see the evil and convince themselves that the person did not do it on purpose, is not evil and does not intend to destroy them.

To the outside world the victim is being stupid, allowing the narcissist to use and abuse them time after time, but the mind is doing what it does naturally; changing the way it views things to accept behavior they would not accept otherwise. It is rather confusing to me because it doesn’t make sense but there are many things about the human mind that don’t make sense and that is why we have to be very aware of our natural reactions to situations and correct the behavior we know is damaging to us. When we feel the impulse to invest more into a losing proposition we need to be aware of our tendency to cognitive dissonance, remove ourselves from the situation so we can think clearly and stay true to our values and boundaries.