Tag Archives: infidelity

I Had To Share This Post From Chump Lady

Here is the post from Chump Lady

As I was reading it I couldn’t help thinking, “Come on lady! you don’t know when to tell him you are dumping his sorry ass? You are still there and willing to stay behind with the children while he goes off to live his life with God knows who?” But I am no one to talk.

When you are in the middle of this kind of shit show you are not thinking straight. It is so obvious to everyone else but your heart and your head are not connecting, you aren’t thinking straight, you are so accustomed to having your feelings ignored and being treated like you are the sick warped one; you can’t think clearly and protect yourself.

When my ex went to Sudan with a Christian Charity to do “missionary” work we were split but still “dating”. He had multiple personal ads from Russian Brides to Ashley Madison (btw I thought Ashley Madison was like Victoria Secret and had no idea it was a cheating site. Naive yes I know). I thought it was the most unselfish thing he had ever done and if he followed through and actually went I would give him another chance when he came back. I allowed him to stay with me until he left and his mother and I promised to contact each other when one of us heard from him because he was going to be so far from any kind of civilization communication was going to be difficult. I won’t go into the whole story because I wrote about it here. I warn you, it is a long post and was written in 2012 so I was not fully healed and still discovering the depth to my ex’s evilness.

After just rereading it I am amazed at what I put up with and what I lived with, all those years wasted worrying about whether he had personal ads, impregnated anyone, still communicating with some young woman in Sudan. I should have kicked his ass to the curb years prior to any of this crazy shit happening.

I hope the woman who wrote to Chump Lady takes her advice to heart but I have my doubts; she will want to be fair and honest and will tell him what she is planning in hopes he will finally realize she is serious and not want to lose her. He will lay some guilt trip on her and she will doubt herself and cling to the dream and hope, just happy that he told her a good enough lie that she could continue to lie to herself.

I am hoping this post will help some of you to realize how out of touch with reality the victim gets and you will truly understand why no contact is so vital to recovery and ever finding happiness.

 

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Word Salad 101 or Gas Lighting

I happened upon this video while looking at videos of clouds; gotta love the internet! the places a person ends up sometimes!

Anyway, i am not nuts about these videos, with the computerized voices but I guess it is fitting seeing as the narcissist’s speech is all rehearsed and programed. It was like so many conversations James and I had so many times.

I wasn’t sure if I wanted to laugh or cry, it brought back so many memories, not good ones.

With a show of hands, how many people have had this exact same conversation with their ex?

See the video here 

The Difference Between Having Your Heart Broken and Having Your Soul Crushed

girlfriend mad I have always thought cheating was cheating, how can there be a good cheater and a bad cheater? they all break your heart, they all break a vow, they all disrespect you. James introduced me to so many grey areas, opened my eyes to so many new experiences that I had no idea existed.  In a normal marriage there can be infidelity  for various reasons, it is never right but shit happens, lets face it. A person can not say “they would never do it” if they haven’t walked in the other person’s shoes. I don’t think I ever would have an affair because I just can’t lie, it would be written all over my face, I would have to spill my guts. Whenever I had the feeling I was tempted to cheat I ended the relationship because to me, if I was looking elsewhere I was not in love with my partner any more. Things had to be pretty bad for a long time before I looked elsewhere. I had to have tried everything I could to save the relationship before I gave up on it. To me if the guy screwed around it meant he didn’t love me and didn’t want to be with me, because if he did he would not take the chance of losing me by screwing around.  That said, with my first marriage that was not the way it was and here is why.

I fell in love fast and furious with my first husband, or we fell in love quickly. I was young, barely 23 when I met him and 6 weeks later I moved to the other side of the country to be with him. I was daring, always have been the type of person to jump in with both feet and not even test the waters. I have always thought “Nothing is engraved in stone, if it doesn’t work out, you change your mind, at least you never regret not doing it, wondering what if.”
I was working as a bank teller near the army base in Chilliwack and he was a French Canadian soldier who spoke broken English and chatted me up every time he was in the bank. He was a cutie pie, beautiful blue eyes, that changed color with his moods and twinkled when he was happy (Kris has eyes like his father) and a devilish grin. He was nothing like any of the men I had dated before. He had a broken nose, tattoos every where, was a bar room brawler a sexy dancer, and as it turned out the most attentive lover I ever had before or since. My family loved him immediately and he loved them, V was full of love, he had the sweetest way about him, he was a combination of  “never walk away from a fight” and “let me massage your feet” and “dirty dancing long before the movie came out”. (I was afraid to dance with him in my small hometown for fear my parents would hear about it but once we were back east I let my hair down) I fell in love with him every time we danced.
When we met, I was fresh (like one week) out of a 2 year dating relationship, and two weeks later he was transferred to Borden Ontario, he said, “If I thought you would come with me, I would ask you.” I said, “If you asked I might come.”
So I applied for a transfer through the bank and went on two weeks vacation with him driving across Canada. I got back from my vacation and walked into the branch Monday morning to be told I started the next Monday in Borden. OMG!!  I called V and asked if he still wanted me to come and he said yes and hopped on a plane to come help me sell all my furniture, load up my Honda Civic and drive across Canada for the second time in 3 weeks.
So I sold every thing I owned and moved across the country with a man I had known not even 2 months.
I was such a princess LOL. James always said I was too demanding, had high expectations, and I was so far from demanding. With V I admit I was demanding! I had my boundaries and I stuck to them (within reason) but then V was not a narcissist. I worked full-time and I did not cook on Fridays, I didn’t care what we ate but it was up to him to supply supper. We went out for expensive fine dining A LOT!, I had expensive clothes. I had expectations of flowers, jewelry, and cards, for special occasions and God help him if he forgot our anniversary! But he never did, I was spoiled by V compared to how James treated me.
lack of respectBut then nothing about being with a narcissist is anything you can call “normal”, there was no such thing as getting angry and him doing what you asked. I knew and know of couples where, if they are entertaining the woman will tell the husband she needs him to help her get ready and he will stay home and help. He may bitch to his buddies about having to get home to help the “ball and chain” but he gets home because life won’t be worth living if he doesn’t. With an N, telling him you need his help results in him not even being there, not before, not during and not after and not answering his phone either.
V and I argued a fair amount because he was a free spirit and I was regimented and a perfectionist. I never wanted to go for a picnic because there was house work to do. I was a pain in the ass I admit it. I also had a lot of hang ups from my childhood. ( I took extensive counseling after we split to deal with my baggage because I knew I had some major issues, anorexic was one, obsessive cleaning another are just two)
We had our own friends and would go out separately sometimes, I had “lounge type friends”, business people, lawyers, accountants, bankers, and he had “bar room brawling buddies”. Our parties were always very interesting rotflmao
V was a ladies man also, he loved women, and he had a hard time turning them down and believe me the women threw themselves at him, he was such a sexy dancer and really sweet. He would go out with his buddies and come home late, I would be laying in bed not able to sleep but would pretend I was asleep when he got home because I knew he would have picked someone up at the bar. (this was pre AIDs) I remember once him standing at the door to the bedroom and saying, “I really do love you.” and he went and slept on the couch.
I could not handle him screwing around and he could not stop. He told me once that he didn’t know why, but he was afraid that he might miss the best piece of tail he ever had if he passed up a woman. It is the strangest situation because I knew he loved me. He never made me feel inferior, he never blamed me, he always told me how beautiful I was and how much he loved my body. We had great sex, he just could not be faithful. There was a lot more to it that I won’t go into here because I have written posts about it a couple of years ago.  Here and  Here and here and here
I was heart-broken when we split and we carried a torch for each other for years. He asked me to try again about 3 years after we split. He brought over a Phil Collins tape and put it on
Rain Down On Me started to play and we waltzed in the kitchen, both crying. He held me for a long time when the song ended, finally I looked him in the eye and asked,”Can you promise to be faithful.” and he said, “No.”
We tried again after my 2nd marriage broke up and he had quit drinking (on my birthday), we dated a bit but there was so much water under the bridge and it just didn’t work out.
But I never hated him and he never hated me, I never once felt less a woman, or less attractive, or less anything. I listened to that song just now and cried not because I am sorry we split but because it was a tender moment where we were both vulnerable.
We had fights, he wasn’t a good dad to Kris when Kris was little, but even when we fought neither one of us attacked the other verbally or otherwise; we were respectful, – frustrated, angry. hurt … yes.. but never hate filled, vindictive, or destructive. We both cried, were in pain, took time to heal, neither one of us took pleasure in the other’s pain. We talked about each other and blamed each other, like divorcing couples will do and probably a lot of what we complained about was very valid. He remained close to my family, we were able to attend school functions, we could talk about our child, I never spoke poorly of Kris’s father to him.
ashley madison

Call me naive, call me stupid, but for almost the whole 10 years I was with James I thought Ashley Madison was like Victoria Secret. I always saw it in History on the computer and never had a clue it was for men in relationships to hook up with women for casual sex, well anything porn, dating sites etc

But never ever did either of us plot to destroy the other one or completely blame the other for our mistakes.

That is what is so painful and devastating about breaking up with the narcissist. When it ends there is no remembrance of the love shared, he instantly hates you and loves someone else. You are expected to carry all the fault for the relationship failing. His hatred for you is palatable. I have always stayed friends with my ex’s and expected the same with James. How can two people who had such a connection, such passion just stop? I thought we would break up, slowly extract ourselves from each other, the phone calls would get less and eventually we would both start dating again (deep down I thought we would somehow get back together like we always did). I never expected the hatred, the wanting to destroy me, the venomous bile that would spew from his mouth, the total disregard for anything good I ever did or denial of any love ever. Until James I thought I had hurt as badly as a person could hurt but I now know there is a level of pain that transcends any earthly normal pain. You would think after all he has done to me I would be able to hate him with the same hatred as he has shown me but you know? I don’t have it in me, I am not capable of that kind of hatred, that blackness, it makes me afraid to know there are people out there who can hate like that, it makes me believe there is a devil. It is amazing to me that a man can cheat on a woman and not make her feel she is less a woman; I find it even more difficult to believe a man can cheat, lie, abuse and then blame for her own pain. That is the difference between a broken heart and soul crushing.

Grief and Forgiveness from Divorce Minister

 

After my post today I read this post from the divorce minister and I thought it complimented a lot of what I was saying today and have said many times in the past.

The narcissist expects immediate forgiveness and to be totally absolved of any crime he committed and demands he not be held accountable or have to prove himself in any way. The victim is expected to forgive and go on like nothing happened, no questions, no anger, no tears or suspicion,………. as James said to me, “I came clean, now you have to let it go because you are driving a wedge between us.” All the while living with another woman when he was out of the province.

I was just reading an article about a celebrity couple who are probably getting a divorce because of his infidelity, the article stated that when the woman found out she trashed the house, punched holes in the walls, throw the wedding photos in the pool and flushed her wedding ring and then she kicked him out of the house. I laughed because if that had been James there is no way on God’s green earth I would have gotten away with that kind of reaction. I would have been punched or choked for one thing, and like hell would he ever leave if I told him to. He would have called me a crazy psycho who drove him to screw around and he has had enough of my shit and this is exactly why he doesn’t think it will ever work because I have a warped view of the world and he can not live with my antics any more. He would have walked away from me and refused to discuss it until I calmed down and it would never get discussed because if I brought it up later he would accuse me of living in the past. 

Grief and Forgiveness

“My soul refused to be comforted.” – Psalm 77:2b (NASB).

“‘For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.’” – Jesus (Matthew 6:14-15, NASB).

I suspect that most Christian survivors of adultery have been told that they have to forgive their cheating spouses. A well-meaning pastor likely told them this as soon as the adultery came to light and anger appeared in the faithful spouse’s voice. Or, perhaps, the adulterer/adulteress led the charge in reminding the faithful spouse of the command I just quoted above from Jesus?

 

Regardless of who reminded the faithful spouse of this Scriptural mandate to forgive, I feel it is important to make a few comments and unpack the complexities surrounding forgiveness after adultery.

Click here to read the full article

Infidelity and Religion

if my wifer loved meOften times a victim of abuse is torn between leaving their abuser and their religious beliefs or they feel pressured by the church to forgive and forget, stay together for the children, they said “til death do us part” 
Wasn’t there anything in those vows about fidelity? I don’t recall the vows saying, “you have to stay until death but I get to cheat as much as I want and you have to forgive me because God says so”

Hebrews 13:4 ESV / 41 helpful votes

Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

I found this quote today:

Infidelity—the absence of faithfulness—is a major cause of broken relationships, especially marriages. In any close relationship faithfulness and trust are vital. Most marriage ceremonies contain a statement from each party promising to be faithful to the other—often until death. Fulfilling such a promise involves each demonstrating faithfulness to the other by continual, loving actions.

M. Scott Peck, in The Road Less Traveled , concludes that such commitment—such determination to faithfully perform one’s vows, promises and relational responsibilities—is essential in all successful relationships. He writes, “… Commitment is the foundation, the bedrock of any genuinely loving relationship” (p. 140)

You can read the rest of the post here.


oppositeIn my mind whether a couple is married or not, if they are having sex and saying they love each other they have made a commitment, but that does provide a loop hole for some people. “I didn’t do anything wrong, we aren’t married”. I did not need a marriage certificate to be committed to James, we had discussed our expectations of the relationship. I told him that I expected honesty above all else, I made it very clear from the beginning that I expected that if I was having sex with a man we would remain monogamous until such time one of us decided it wasn’t working for us. I didn’t have casual sex, he said he didn’t either, I had no fear of pregnancy with a preference for sex without a condom but with std’s that can kill you, we agreed we wouldn’t sleep with anyone else. Fidelity is more than marriage vows, it is trust, it is concern for the safety of your partner, it is having the decency of giving them the option of protecting themselves from diseases you are too stupid to protect yourself from. 

I always said to James that him wanting more than one sex partner was not wrong as long as he was honest and respected my right to not want to be with him if he chose to be with more than me. I made it very clear that I expected him to only have sex with me and not break up with me on day so he could screw around and then get back together the next day. My only expectation of him was to be honest with me.

I am not stupid or so naive to believe that just because a man tells me he loves me and will be faithful forever that at some point he won’t change his mind. People fall out of love all the time, people grow apart, goals change, what worked once no longer works. It hurts when the person you love wants out of the relationship but it is a lot easier than finding out by discovering they are being unfaithful.

But the ultimate in cruelty is when one partner insists they are faithful and the other person is just paranoid and then use their suspicions as an excuse for infidelity, “I thought I might as well do it seeing as you kept accusing me.” “If you trusted me I wouldn’t have to cheat” Huh???? 

To be told if you just, “trusted them”, “changed this or that about yourself.” That they love you and you are crazy to suspect them, “How can you have so little faith in their love?”

infidelty under the rugAnd THEN when they are discovered to be screwing around blame the victim for their infidelity and say that they have found their true soul mate and the ex made their life hell the whole time they were together. And THEN come crawling back asking for forgiveness and promising total honesty and fidelity only to do it all over again.  I can’t count how many times James had an epiphany, had received a message from God and realized I was the woman he loved. I am surprised he wasn’t struck by lightening right before my eyes.

I just read a post over at Chump Lady’s blog and she provided the link I gave earlier. 

What are your thoughts on religion and infidelity? married vows? how has religion affected your decisions with your N?

 

An Excellent Article On Infidelity

I came across this article today and thought it was well worth sharing. It is not specifically about narcissists but many of the questions are ones asked by the victims of narcissists and the answers are spot on to what I have said in reply to those same questions.

Over the course of my 15 years as a private investigator specializing in infidelity, I have dealt with thousands of cases. Many of my clients ask the same questions when they first come to see me. Even though every case I deal with is unique, it seems that the pain and rejection experienced by my clients unites them. The questions are still as heartfelt as the first time I took on a case of discovering infidelity, and my answers are built up for many years of experience.

1. If he wants her so much why does he stay with me?
Because he wants her as well as you. If he’s fallen head over heels in love with this woman and he can’t live without her then he might leave you for her, as some men do. The ones who don’t are just plain greedy.

2. Is it wrong to have him watched if I suspect he’s having an affair?
Absolutely not. Don’t ever feel guilty about protecting yourself. As his wife you have every right to know what he’s doing with your health, finances and emotions.

3. Why does he keep doing this to me? 
They keep doing it because they know (from experience) you will forgive them. Often women who are married to serial cheaters will scream and shout at their partner if they discover he has been cheating, but ultimately they don’t take any action.

Remember you can’t keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. If you’re not prepared to up the ante, then expect to continue living a life of emotional turmoil.

4. He’s lied so much to me. How can I ever trust what he says again?
To learn to trust someone again is extremely hard, and in some cases impossible. It is such an individual choice, and only you will know if you feel truly comfortable with what is being said and done. There’s no quick fix for infidelity. In fact, it can take literally years to restore trust.

Many men believe that once they have confessed, that should be the end of the matter. Unless you know that you’ve been heard on all levels and your partner has understood the gravity of his immaturity and the choices he’s made, then you’ll never get over his infidelity.

5. I know he’s having a relationship, but is it sexual?
Of course it’s sexual. It doesn’t matter if it’s looking at pornography, chatting with other women online, or physically having an affair, because in the end it is a desire for sex. If it was all so innocent then the only question you would have to ask your partner would be, “Would you do any or all of these things with me present?”

When you ask the question “Is it sexual?” what you’re doing is trying to justify your partner’s deception and to minimize your own emotional anguish.

6. Is it my fault?
How can it be your fault if you didn’t know it was happening?

Your husband may have tried to shift the blame onto you by saying if you were only more attentive, less busy, etc., he would never have done this. But for every action there is a reaction, so he should take responsibility for his actions.

7. I think my husband’s having an affair but he’s home every evening, so how can he be?
Many affairs are conducted during the day, mostly when both parties are married and going out in the evening would arouse suspicion. Many of my clients seem to think affairs are about long afternoons together, but in my experience they’re much more likely to be quickies during the day because remember, time isn’t the issue here; it’s all about sex.

8. Why won’t he tell me the truth? That’s all I ask.
In majority of cases, his lies are to avoid having to face your anger and hurt if he tells you the truth. He hopes that denying it will make it go away and you’ll give up asking. He lies to protect his ego and often to protect the other woman, fearing that you will use the information to undermine him or her. And finally, he may fear that the truth will damage his image in the eyes of others.

9. Do I need to prove the identity the other woman now that adultery is no longer grounds for divorce?
Initially, needing to know has nothing to do with money and everything to do with uncovering deceit. Uncovering emotional deceit often leads to uncovering financial deceit. That’s when needing to know has everything to do with money and divorce settlements.

10. Should I stay for the children?
Children easily pick up on tension at home and can blame themselves for what’s going on. If you choose to stay and try to rebuild your relationship, you will both need to agree how this can be achieved without causing trauma for the children. From a child’s point of view, one happy parent is always better than two warring parents.

11. When I say I’m going to leave, why does my partner not take me seriously?
Because you didn’t leave. Threats without action are worth nothing.

HELLO?? This is Your Gut Speaking

ImageEveryone has experienced that almost audible voice that is telling you what you should do but you ignore it; does it ever work out for you? I am sure almost everyone coming here can relate to wanting something so bad that no matter what happens you are focussed on what YOU want but it seems no matter what you do there are roadblocks in your way, you just deal with one and another appears. I have found that when something is too difficult to attain it usually isn’t meant to be. I have learned (and it was a tough lesson to learn) that if I am indecisive I am better off to just wait it out; some how things work out the way they should.

People get uncomfortable being quiet, they don’t like to listen to that voice because they don’t want to hear what it has to say but if you really tune into it, it can become such a big part of your every day life and so natural that you hardly think about it; but you have to be willing to go through a period of being uncomfortable and you have to learn to be very in tune with your body.

When people come in here and they are almost panicked because the N wants them back and they don’t know what to do; the reason they are feeling so anxious is because they aren’t listening to their gut instincts, it is very simple and straight forward really.

I remember feeling uncomfortable throughout the relationship with JC, right from the beginning but I hushed the voice telling me something wasn’t right, I told myself the reason I felt uncomfortable was because I wasn’t accustomed to being loved so completely, I wasn’t used to allowing a man to take care of me and it was going to take a while for me to get used to not being in control all the time. I recalled various conversations I had in the past and they influenced the decisions I made with JC.

In my past I had been very “black and white” with my boundaries and had been very tough on my first husband, I was young and I had high standards and ideals and I wasn’t willing to compromise them. I was demanding, I admit it and would admit it to my 1st husband now. Age and experience has mellowed me for certain. I relaxed as years went by but even when I met JC I had high standards as far as moral and ethical boundaries, I had no tolerance for dishonesty, unscrupulous dealings with people, infidelity, and I valued authentic people and had little time for phonies. JC presented himself to be all the things I valued and none of the things I despised. So it didn’t make sense to me that I would feel this uncomfortable in my gut, but I had changed a few things about how I operated in a relationship. I thought I was learning from earlier mistakes and becoming a better person. I had been told by more than one fellow that I was too self sufficient and it made them feel they weren’t needed in my life. I always thought that was a compliment to a man, that I chose to be with them because I enjoyed their company not because I needed them. I had always been the one to end the relationship; because I always owned the home and I was the major wage earner at the end of the relationship I was the one to make sure they took enough from the relationship to start over on their own. Men never left a relationship with me worse off than when they came in. I had never cared what a man had or what kind of job he did, as long as he was hard-working I was willing to share what I had; to a degree. I never put a man’s name on my house, I kept the finances separate, I was protective of my assets because I worked hard for them, they were my security and I had a child to raise.

Then one day at work a woman I worked with, Janet got angry with me because I was saying I would never put a man’s name on my house. She had been married for 20+ years to the same man and thought that if I loved someone I should trust them enough to blindly put everything into joint names. We had quite a heated argument about it and I didn’t change my mind but it stayed with me. Also I had girlfriends who had men buy them expensive gifts, my one girlfriend even had a car bought for her but I I didn’t want to “owe” any man anything. I had been told that I was actually insulting men by not accepting gifts. When I met JC he seemed so perfect, all these things were running through my head. I was in my 40’s, not looking for a relationship BUT one appeared to have fallen in my lap and it seemed to be the love of a life time; I didn’t want to screw it up by being too independent. I decided to relax and not be so protective of my independence, allow a man to spoil me. I kept telling myself that was the uncomfortable feeling I was experiencing, I wasn’t used to allowing a man to do as much as JC did for me, I saw him more than I usually saw men I had just started dating, I figured it would take some time to feel comfortable with it all.

I even had a dream early in the relationship where JC was standing with his arm around another woman and laughing at me. I was crying, begging him to talk to me and he was kissing this other woman, they were both laughing at me and walked away. I woke up with a start, tears streaming down my face. JC wasn’t in bed, he was on the computer, I went and kneeled by his chair putting my hands on his leg, he looked at me; it was the first time I noticed something cold about how he looked at me but I chalked it up to my dream. I told him about my dream and he was not the least bit reassuring and basically acted annoyed to be interrupted. I asked him to come to bed and he said he would be there in a minute, I went to bed, eventually fell asleep and he came to bed sometimes later, we had sex and fell back to sleep. The next day I tried to put the dream out of my mind which I did for many years.

Little did I know that the dream was predicting what would come 10 years down the road.

Many times during the 10 years I was with JC I had gut instincts about something and even if I didn’t find out until years later, every gut instinct I had was proven right. I would tell myself that I was just getting used to his lies and a person didn’t have to be psychic to know he was going to have personal ads, or date other women. But there was more to it than that, we could go weeks, months, without me having a gut feeling about something and then out of the blue I would have a feeling he was up to something. I would try to ignore it, but it would be so strong it would start to occupy my every thought, gnawing at my stomach until I went snooping, which was totally out of character for me, I never snooped in previous relationships. It would seem as if I knew exactly where to look because it never took long to find some evidence of infidelity.

We have discussed gut instinct before and being able to sense danger, but I don’t think it has to be danger necessarily, I think we all have the ability to sense when we are being lied to. I know I say I never saw it coming but if I am honest I DID sense things were not right, I just couldn’t put my finger on what it was and was afraid if I walked away from JC I would be walking away from the greatest love of my life.

Related posts you may want to check out. https://ladywithatruck.com/2013/05/24/article-from-huffington-post/
https://ladywithatruck.com/2013/09/16/playing-russian-roulette-with-the-devil/
https://ladywithatruck.com/2014/01/02/resonse-to-how-do-we-know-if-a-person-is-a-narcissisr/