Tag Archives: Saying I Love You

Difficult To Love

A good friend emailed this link to me the other day and I wanted to share it with everyone. It reminded me of what the WOS said to me one time after days, probably weeks of refusing to say “I love you” and pulling away if I went to touch him and I finally went to him and knelt in front of him, put my hands on his knees and looked him in the eye and told him I would leave if that is what he wanted but I didn’t know what more I could do, I couldn’t stay where I was this unwanted. His reply to me was,

“It’s not so easy to love someone when they don’t love you back is it?”

That was it, and I was left sitting there wondering what the hell that was supposed to mean. Was I being punished for some other woman who broke his heart? So I started making the plans to leave because I will not ever stay where I am not welcome and then it was me leaving him, it wasn’t his idea. I had misunderstood, was being paranoid, didn’t I know his love was cyclable? I was too needy, too demanding, had expectations and if I didn’t have expectations I wouldn’t get let down.

About every 3 years the WOS would say something profoundly truthful but I didn’t take it for what it obviously said, That he just didn’t love me and never would, I allowed him to mess with my head, play games, push me away, pull me close so he could push me away and make me feel foolish.

If someone truly loves you their love is not cyclable, if someone loves you they do everything within their power to NOT hurt you, not to cause you pain. and if they do hurt you they will do everything within their power to make amends.

Here is the link.

Whether You Like It Or Not Here’s The Truth

this was posted as a comment by Elaine, on my blog Page titled The 3 Phases of a Relationship With a Narcissist. It is deserving of it’s own post. It is lengthy and covers material we have already covered here but it puts it all into one article and is said in such a way that it all makes sense. Besides it seems to take receiving the same information over and over again before we are able to truly absorb the truth; that we were in love with a facade, a sham and the narcissist will never change, we will not be able to “love” them enough to “fix” them. No matter how much time or money we have invested, our only option is to cut our losses and run.

I know, I know!!!!!…… I told myself the same thing you are thinking, “Sure he has the traits of a narcissist but it’s different with us, we have something special, he really loves me, I can tell.” Believe me!! I never thought he could cheat on me. After 10 years of not being able to stay away from each other, after him coming to me in tears and begging me to give him “one more second chance”, after he admitted to and apologized for everything he ever did to hurt me, after 10 years of sacrificing for him and forgiving him and loving him unconditionally, he would not discard me.”

That is why I am here, to try and save you from going through what I did. Here, read for yourself……..

From Elaine:

hi, my friend sent me this from a scientific journal after hearing my story. She is a psychologist. It’s exactly what happened.
Because they suffer from incurable personality disorders, psychopaths repeat over and over the same relationship cycle, no matter whom they’re dating or for how long. Relationships with them are always castles–or, sometimes, marriages–built on sand. Today I’ll describe the entire process of psychopathic seduction, from its seemingly ideal beginning to its invariably bitter end.
In their book on psychopaths in the workplace, entitled Snakes in Suits, Babiak and Hare state that the psychopathic bond follows certain predictable stages: idealize, devalue and discard. This process may take several years or only a few hours. It all depends on what the psychopath wants from you and whether or not you present a challenge to him. If the psychopath wants the semblance of respectability–a screen behind which he can hide his perverse nature and appear harmless and normal–he may establish a long-term partnership with you or even marry you. If all he wants is to have some fun, it will be over within a couple of hours. If he wants the stimulation and diversion of an affair, he may stay with you for as long as you excite him. Despite the differences in timeline, what remains constant is this: eventually, sooner or later, you’ll be discarded (or be led by the psychopath’s bad behavior to discard him) as soon as you no longer serve his needs.
Babiak and Hare explain that although psychopaths are highly manipulative, the process of idealize, devalue and discard is a natural outgrowth of their personalities. In other words, it’s not necessarily calculated at every moment in the relationship. Overall, however, whether consciously or not, psychopaths assess and drain the use-value out of their romantic partners. (Snakes in Suits, 42) During the assessment phase, psychopaths interact closely with their targets to see what makes them tick. They ask probing questions, to discover their unfulfilled needs and weaknesses. They also commonly lure their targets with promises to offer them whatever’s been missing from their lives. If you’re recovering from a recent divorce, they offer you friendship and an exciting new romantic relationship. If you’ve suffered a death in the family, they appear to be sympathetic friends. If you’re going through financial difficulties, they lend you money to seem generous.
During the manipulation phase, Babiak and Hare go on to explain, psychopaths construct the “psychopathic fiction.” They pour on the charm to hook their victims emotionally and gain their trust. They present themselves as kind-hearted individuals. Of course, in order to do so, psychopaths resort to outrageous lies since, in reality, they’re just the opposite. In romantic relationships in particular, they depict themselves as not only compatible with you, but also as your soul mate. While seeming your complement, they also present themselves as your mirror image. They claim to share your interests and sensibilities. Babiak and Hare observe: “This psychological bond capitalizes on your inner personality, holding out the promise of greater depth and possibly intimacy, and offering a relationship that is special, unique, equal–forever.” (Snakes in Suits, 78)
Because psychopaths are great manipulators and convincing liars, as we’ve seen, many of their victims don’t heed the warning signals. During the early phases of a romantic relationship, people in general tend to be too blinded by the euphoria of falling in love to focus on noticing red flags. Also, during this period, the psychopaths themselves are on their best behavior. Yet, generally speaking, they get bored too easily to be able to maintain their mask of sanity consistently for very long. The honeymoon phase of the relationship usually lasts until the psychopath intuitively senses that he’s got you on the hook or until he’s gotten bored by the relationship and moved on to other targets. He shows his true colors when he’s got no incentive left to pretend anymore. As Babiak and Hare note, “Once psychopaths have drained all the value from a victim—that is, when the victim is no longer useful—they abandon the victim and move on to someone else.” (Snakes in Suits, 53)
This raises the question of why a psychopath idealizes his targets in the first place. Why do psychopaths invest so much effort, time and energy into giving the illusion of intimacy and meaning in a relationship, given that they never really bond with other human beings in the first place? One obvious response would be that they do it for the sport of it. They enjoy both the chase and the kill; the seduction and the betrayal. They relish creating the illusion that they’re something they’re not. They also enjoy observing how they dupe others into believing this fiction. Moreover, whenever a psychopath expresses admiration, flattery or enthusiasm for someone, it’s always because he wants something from that person. I think, however, that this explanation is somewhat reductive. Many psychopaths experience powerful obsessions that resemble intense passions. Besides, this explanation doesn’t distinguish conmen, who fake their credentials and interest in a person, from psychopaths “in love,” who are pursuing their targets for what initially seems even to them as “romantic” reasons.
A broader explanation, which would include both kinds of psychopaths, might look something like this: as research confirms, all psychopaths suffer from a shallowness of emotion that makes their bonding ephemeral and superficial, at best. When they want something–or someone–they pursue that goal with all their might. They concentrate all of their energies upon it. When that goal is your money or a job or something outside of yourself, their pursuit may appear somewhat fake. You’re a means to an end. You were never idealized for yourself, but for something else. But when their goal is actually you–seducing you or even marrying you–then their pursuit feels like an idealization. Temporarily, you represent the object of their desire, the answer to their needs, the love of their life and the key to their happiness. But this feeling of euphoria doesn’t last long because it’s empty to the core. As we’ve observed, once psychopaths feel they have you in their grasp—once your identity, hopes and expectations are pinned on them—they get bored with you and move on to new sources of pleasure and diversion. We’ve also seen in Cleckley’s study that the same logic applies to their other goals as well. Psychopaths tire rather quickly of their jobs, their geographic location, their hobbies and their educational endeavors. But it hurts so much more, and it feels so much more personal, when what they get tired of is you, yourself.
Their loss of interest appears as a devaluation. From the center of their life, you suddenly become just an obstacle to their next pursuit. Since psychopaths are intuitively skilled at “dosing,” or giving you just enough validation and attention to keep you on the hook, you may not immediately notice the devaluation. It’s as if the psychopath intuitively knows when to be charming again (in order not to lose you) and when to push your boundaries, further and lower. Your devaluation occurs gradually yet steadily. One day you finally notice it and wonder how you have allowed yourself to sink so low. Occasionally, he throws you a bone–takes you out, plans a romantic evening, says kind and loving things—to lead you to dismiss your healthy intuitions that you’re being mistreated. If the psychopath allows himself to treat you worse and worse it’s not only because you’re much less exciting in his eyes. It’s also because he’s conditioned you to think less highly of yourself and to accept his dubious behavior. Because you want to hold on to the fantasy of the ideal relationship he cultivated, you go into denial. You accept his implausible excuses. You put up with your growing fears and doubts. You rationalize his inexplicable absences, his increasingly frequent emotional withdrawals, his curt and icy replies, his petty and mean-spirited ways of “punishing” you for asserting your needs or for not bending to his will.
But at some point, when he sinks to a new low or when you catch him in yet another lie, you slip out of the willful denial which has been your way of adjusting to the toxic relationship. Because he has lowered your self-esteem, you ask yourself why this has happened and what you did wrong. If he cheated on you, you blame the other woman or women involved. The psychopath encourages you to pursue such false leads. In fact, he encourages anything that deflects attention from his responsibility in whatever goes wrong with your relationship. He leads you to blame yourself. He also inculpates the other women. He implies that you were not good enough for him. He claims that the other women tempted or pursued him. But that’s only a diversionary tactic. You have flaws and you made mistakes, but at least you were honest and real. The other women involved may have been decent human beings, the scum of the Earth or anything in between. Think about it. Does it really matter who and what they were? You are not involved with the other women. They are not your life partners, your spouses, your lovers or your friends. What matters to you most is how your own partner behaves. He is primarily accountable for his actions. Not you, not the other women.
Also, keep in mind that psychopaths twist the truth to fit their momentary goals and to play mind games. When you actually pay attention to what they say instead of being impressed by how sincere they may appear, their narratives often sound inconsistent and implausible. What they say about other women, both past and present, is most likely a distortion too. Psychopaths commonly project their own flaws upon others. If they tell you they were seduced, it was most likely the other way around. If they tell you that their previous girlfriends mistreated them, cheated on them, got bored with them, abandoned them, listen carefully, since that’s probably what they did to those women. Their lies serve a dual function. They help establish credibility with you as well as giving them the extra thrill of deceiving you yet again.
So why were you discarded? you may wonder. You were devalued and discarded because you were never really valued for yourself. As we’ve seen, for psychopaths relationships are temporary deals, or rather, scams. Analogously, for them, other human beings represent objects of diversion and control. The most flattering and pleasant phase of their control, the only one that feels euphoric and magical, is the seduction/idealization phase. That’s when they pour on the charm and do everything they possibly can to convince you that you are the only one for them and that they’re perfect for you. It’s very easy to mistake this phase for true love or passion. However, what inevitably follows in any intimate relationship with a psychopath is neither pleasant nor flattering. Once they get bored with you because the spell of the initial conquest has worn off, the way they maintain control of you is through deception, isolation, abuse, gaslighting and undermining your self-confidence.
That’s when you realize that the devaluation phase has set in. You do whatever you can to regain privileged status. You try to recapture the excitement and sweetness of the idealization phase. You want to reclaim your rightful throne as the queen you thought you were in his eyes. But that’s an impossible goal, an ever-receding horizon. Every women’s shelter tells victims of domestic violence that abuse usually gets worse, not better, over time. For abusers, power is addictive. It works like a drug. The dosage needs to be constantly increased to achieve the same effect. Control over others, especially sexual control, gives psychopaths pleasure and meaning in life. To get the same rush from controlling you, over time, they need to tighten the screws. Increase the domination. Increase the manipulation. Isolate you further from those who care about you. Undermine your confidence and boundaries more, so that you’re left weaker and less prepared to stand up for yourself. The more you struggle to meet a psychopath’s demands, the more he’ll ask of you. Until you have nothing left to give. Because you have pushed your moral boundaries as low as they can go. You have alienated your family and friends, at the psychopath’s subtle manipulation or overt urging. You have done everything you could to satisfy him. Yet, after the initial idealization phase, nothing you did was ever good enough for him.
It turns out that he’s completely forgotten about the qualities he once saw in you. If and when he talks about you to others, it’s as if he were ashamed of you. That’s not only because he lost interest in you. It’s also the instinctive yet strategic move of a predator. If your family, his family, your mutual friends have all lost respect for you–if you’re alone with him in the world–he can control you so much easier than if you have external sources of validation and emotional support. Psychopaths construct an “us versus them” worldview. They initially depict your relationship as privileged and better than the ordinary love bonds normal people form. This is of course always a fiction. In fact, the opposite holds true. An intimate relationship with a psychopath is far inferior to any normal human relationship, where both people care about each other. Such a relationship is necessarily one-sided and distorted. It’s a sham on both sides. Being a consummate narcissist, he loves no one but himself and cares about nothing but his selfish desires.
If and when he does something nice, it’s always instrumental: a means to his ends or to bolster his artificial good image. Dr. Jekyll is, in fact, always Mr. Hyde on the inside. And even though you may be capable of love, you’re not in love with the real him–the cheater, the liar, the manipulator, the player, the hollow, heartless being that he is–but with the charming illusion he created, which you initially believed but which becomes increasingly implausible over time. From beginning to end, all this phony relationship can offer you is a toxic combination of fake love and real abuse. He constructs the psychopathic bond through deception and manipulation. You maintain it through self-sacrifice and denial.
But pretty soon, when you find yourself alone with the psychopath, you see it’s not us versus them, your couple above and against everyone else. It’s him versus you. He will act like your worst enemy, which is what he really is, not as the best friend and adoring partner he claimed to be. If he criticizes you to others–or, more subtly, fosters antagonisms between you and family members and friends–it’s to further wear you down and undermine your social bonds. Once he tires of you, he induces others to see you the same way that he does: as someone not worthy of him; as someone to use, demean and discard. Before you were beautiful and no woman could compare to you. Now you’re at best plain in his eyes. Before you were cultured and intelligent. Now you’re the dupe who got played by him. Before you were dignified and confident. Now you’re isolated and abject. In fact, right at the point when you feel that you should be rewarded for your sacrifice of your values, needs, desires and human bonds–all for him–the psychopath discards you.
He’s had enough. He’s gotten everything he wanted out of you. Bent you out of shape. Taken away, demand by demand, concession by concession, your dignity and happiness. As it turns out, the reward you get for all your devotion and efforts is being nearly destroyed by him. Ignoring your own needs and fulfilling only his–or fulfilling yours to gain his approval–has transformed you into a mere shadow of the lively, confident human being you once were.
He uses your weaknesses against you. He also turns your qualities into faults. If you are faithful, he sees your fidelity as a weakness, a sign you weren’t desirable enough to cheat. Nobody else really wanted you. If you are virtuous, he exploits your honesty while he lies and cheats on you. If you are passionate, he uses your sensuality to seduce you, to entrap you through your own desires, emotions, hopes and dreams. If you are reserved and modest, he describes you as asocial and cold-blooded. If you are confident and outgoing, he views you as flirtatious and untrustworthy. If you are hard working, unless he depends on your money, he depicts you as a workhorse exploited by your boss. If you are artistic and cultured, he undermines your merit. He makes you feel like everything you create is worthless and cannot possibly interest others. You’re lucky that it ever interested him. After the idealization phase is over, there’s no way to please a psychopath. Heads you lose, tails he wins. But remember that his criticisms are even less true than his initial exaggerated flattery. When all is said and done, the only truth that remains is that the whole relationship was a fraud.
The process of the psychopathic bond is programmatic. It’s astonishingly elegant and simple given the complexity of human behavior. Idealize, devalue and discard. Each step makes sense once you grasp the psychological profile of a psychopath, of an (in)human being who lives for the pleasure of controlling and harming others. 1) Idealize: not you, but whatever he wanted from you and only for however long he wanted it. 2) Devalue: once he has you in his clutches, the boredom sets in and he loses interest. 3) Discard: after he’s gotten everything he wanted from you and has probably secured other targets.
For you, this process is excruciatingly personal. It may have cost you your time, your heart, your friends, your family, your self-esteem or your finances. You may have put everything you had and given everything you could to that relationship. It may have become your entire life. For the psychopath, however, the whole process isn’t really personal. He could have done the same thing to just about anyone who allowed him into her intimate life. He will do it again and again to everyone he seduces. It’s not about you. It’s not about the other woman or women who were set against you to compete for him, to validate his ego, to give him pleasure, to meet his fickle needs. He wasn’t with them because they’re superior to you. He was with them for the same reason that he was with you. To use them, perhaps for different purposes than he used you, but with the same devastating effect. He will invariably treat others in a similar way to how he treated you. Idealize, devalue and discard. Rinse and repeat.

An Apology is Only an Apology if There is Change

As most victims of narcissistic abuse you have probably spent hours surfing the net collecting all the information you can on the subject. You are amazed at how your partner fits the description to a tee, right down to the fact that he never apologies, of sure he’s given “apologies” like: “I’m sorry you made me do that” “If you hadn’t done …….. I wouldn’t have done >>>>>>>” , “If I got sex more at home I wouldn’t look elsewhere”, any way you have been there and know what I am talking about.

So when he calls out of the blue or shows up at your door after no contact for weeks or maybe even months and is crying and looks like a little boy who’s lost his mother and begs you to talk to him for just a few minutes, you cautiously let him speak. After all you are curious, you have never seen him quite like this, crying, contrite, remorseful, you’ve never seen him vulnerable.

For the first time ever he apologizes for everything he ever did wrong, his hands shaking, tears streaming down his face and you think he must mean it, he has never let himself be vulnerable like this and you love him so much.

You have been away from him long enough that you are going back to the way you were before you met him, you are calm, rational and logical and you can look back on the relationship and are shocked at how you responded to some situations in the relationship. It was so unlike you to snoop, be suspicious, cry all the time, go into rages because you were so frustrated, you just weren’t yourself. So when he starts to admit all his errs; you, being the fair, understanding honest person you are; take responsibility for your part in the relationship’s  troubles. The two of you talk just like you did in the beginning, open and honest and it feels so good, you really feel he must be sincere. You don’t want to punish him, you want to forgive and forget and he is asking if you can just put the past behind and take it from here. You know how hard to would be for him to ever admit fault, surely he wouldn’t do that if he didn’t really mean it, after all you have stayed away, you didn’t beg him, he came to you all on his own.

If he was a normal person you would be right, he must mean it, BUT he is a narcissist!! and a narcissist will say and do anything to get what he wants at the time. He has studied human nature and he has saved his best for last, he would prefer to not use contritiness and vulnerability to get what he wants but when he is lacking ns and needing a boost to his ego, or money or a place to live he will resort to anything; besides he can always deny ever saying it later.

But right now in front of you, with pleading eyes full of love and not loathing, with words coming out of his mouth you never thought you would hear, making promises of undying love and faithfulness how do you walk away? What if he really does mean it? what if you walk away and he really has changed? how will you know if you don’t give him another chance? WHAT DO YOU DO??

Well, you could come on this site or any other site on the net that talks about loving a narcissist and ask if anyone has met a narcissist that apologized and what happened and you would be told by everyone to RUN!!! BUT you still cling to the belief that, although he fits the description of a narcissist to a T, and the last time you were with him all but killed you; you are different from every other woman who has been involved with a narcissist. YOUR narcissist is capable of love, he is just confused and hurt from his past, you can tell he loves you, you two have a special bond, something those other women didn’t have. You feel sorry for them and he did treat you horribly but deep down you always knew he loved you and now he realizes it too. Go ahead, he’s lying to you, might as well join the party and lie to you too.

Hey! I am not criticizing you for wanting to believe him; I have done it 3 times!! Finally the 4th time I found the balls to walk away, but I still didn’t do it to his face, I sent an email to him and his new woman telling him to stay away. The really sad thing is that once you have heard the first apology every one after that is exactly the same and you want to look behind your back and see if there is someone holding up cue cards.

so cherish the first one; it’s easier to believe the lie when it isn’t an instant replay.

OK Ok I know, you really want to know what to do and I am being sarcastic and a smart ass, sorry.

Lets look at this as rational, mature, intelligent women dealing with a normal, caring, honest, man who is truly remorseful. The only reason you wouldn’t want to look at it that way is if you truly are lying to yourself and don’t believe him but you don’t want to face the truth. Hey got that t-shirt also. “If I challenge him, if I make him work for my trust, if I make him accountable, if I don’t make it easy he might not stay.” you can also lie to him and yourself and say, “I forgive you but the first time you cheat, hit me, ………. fill in the blank; I am out of here, this is the last chance.” Go ahead, say it like you mean it because you know you won’t walk away once you recommit, you are going to hang on even tighter. And sure you can promise top not snoop or be suspicious because you have been away from him long enough to forget the things that MADE you suspicious but once you are back together he will go back to his old ways and guess what, you will be expected to trust him explicitly and keep your end of the bargain even though he isn’t.

But we are talking about a normal guy who realized that he treated you like crap and wants you back. For one thing, I hate to break it to you but a normal guy just doesn’t switch between being an asshole and being a nice guy; he just doesn’t. A normal guy might have an affair but he doesn’t abuse and criticize every aspect of you, a normal guy doesn’t call you every name in the book, discard you like a used condom (a normal guy uses a condom an N doesn’t have to because you should be willing to die for him) and then show up all sorry because a normal guy would never be that cruel, he wouldn’t think of it. but we are pretending so we will carry on.

What is an apology and what are your responsibilities should you accept the apology? An apology is in my mind; a promise to not do it again. An apology is admitting you were wrong and changing your behaviour.
Now the forgiver, if he chooses to forgive has some obligations also, they can’t forever more hold the offense over the other person’s head, they can’t expect the person to continue to apologize over and over again, wear sack cloth and ashes forever more and the forgiver can’t bring up the old offenses in new arguments, lay guilt trips or play games like tit for tat. BUT the forgiver does not have to jump in with both feet with only the word of the narcis……sorry normal guy’s word that he has changed.

A normal guy will know he has to earn your trust again and be willing to do just that.

You want to forgive him, set some boundaries and STICK TO THEM, if he has changed he won’t have a problem with that.
Here are a few very logical and reasonable boundaries that should be put into place.

– he must be tested for STD’s and show you the results before you have unprotected sex with him ever again. NO ACCEPTIONS!!! this is your life we are talking about and I don’t care if he says he didn’t have sex with anyone else, he has lied before and now he is/should be willing to prove his honesty. What has he got to worry about, why would it be an issue? hey you can get tested too if he wants right?

– Whatever the offense was, whether it was personal ads, a porn addiction, another woman he was seeing, him not acknowledging you on his Facebook, passwords on his phone MUST stop immediately!!! not it will stop when you trust him again, not when you change he will change. NO he came to you, he wants it to work, he fixes the problem. That means removing any personal ads immediately.

– You get total unrestricted access to his computer and phone. Privacy smancify, he was dishonest and now he can prove he is a changed man. If he has nothing to hide, he has nothing to hide plain and simple. Sure he can still hide stuff but it is not as easy and if you check enough times and never find anything eventually you will get bored and stop checking ( but just to be on the safe side check once in a while) If his phone rings and he is out of the room there is absolutely no reason why you can’t answer it, you are in a committed relationship and everyone he knows should know that, same goes for Facebook, or any other social media.

– No living together for one year, you are both adults and should be able to support yourselves and take care of your own needs, don’t let him slide back into the house where you are doing all the cooking, cleaning and compromising, let him take care of himself for awhile, he is a big boy and a “normal” guy will like being able to have you over to his place and cook you a dinner, he will like the independence and maybe will learn some talents that he will bring to the table when you do decide to move back in together.

– YOU maintain a life separate from his, friendships you maintain, girl friends you don’t put on the back burner because he wants to see you, he can find something to do for a night that doesn’t involve another woman. If you can’t trust that he can handle a few hours without you without chasing down another woman then there is no hope. “You went out for dinner with your friends and I was lonely so I put a personal ad on the net” is not an excuse, a normal guy would not even try to make you believe that horse shit, he would be afraid you’d throw something at him. NORMAL guys do not cheat because you weren’t there for a few hours let alone if you went on vacation for two weeks!! Come on!! we are being mature intelligent women now right?

– You in turn have to accept he might want to spend some time with the guys, deal with it………this is one area you have to fight the jealousy and insecurity. But you have every right to know where he is going, who with and when he will be home. You are allowed one phone call and he had better answer!!

– Any, I mean ANY signs of infidelity, put downs, or physical abuse (even intimidation like raising his fist or punching a wall) it is DONE!! no 3rd chances, no discussion, no excuses, no apologies, no blaming, call the cops if you have to, put his stuff on the curb and change the locks, change your number and call a girlfriend (because this time you have friends) tell her to bring the ice cream and cry your eyes out and be thankful you were smart enough to not swallow his lies hook line and sinker and you don’t have an STD and you will get over this.

Up to you to decide, do you trust his love? does he love you enough to prove it? scary isn’t it? I didn’t trust his love enough to test it and you know what? he didn’t love me, wish I would have tested it now.